SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> The Cafe >> unleaded 88 ?
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1622748753

Message started by badwolf on 06/03/21 at 12:32:33

Title: unleaded 88 ?
Post by badwolf on 06/03/21 at 12:32:33

Saw this stuff for the first time today and gave it a try in my 09'.
Anyone else tried it?
Good, or bad? (results, NOT rumors)
A lot of info out there about it =

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=unleaded+88

What do our ''experts'' say?

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by jcstokes on 06/03/21 at 12:42:40

I'm no "expert" but I read something from The Iowa Renewable Fuels Association. Apparently the fuel is recommended for many post 2000 vehicles by the US EPA, they note that earlier vehicles may not have sophisticated engine management systems to maximise use of the fuel. Our bikes are an almost unchanged 1986 design with a carburettor.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by badwolf on 06/03/21 at 12:50:53

I put 4.0 gallons in my 4.5 gal tank, will report back on next fill-up.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by MMRanch on 06/03/21 at 22:38:51

I'd be surprised if the "O-Rings" survive ? Maybe if you add some "Marvels Mystery Oil" your seals might be saved ? :-?

I believe the 88 has 15% enthol , 10% is bad enough.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by Dave on 06/04/21 at 03:13:48

I believe using that is not a good idea. Ethanol is hard on rubber parts and the Savage was designed and built when ethanol was not in the fuel. We already know the stock vacuum petcock diaphragm does not like ethanol - I doubt the other rubber parts in the fuel system like it.

Ethanol is also corrosive to aluminum and your carb may suffer......and fuel with 15% ethanol may absorb moisture easier and cause your unlined fuel tank to rust.

And your carb is not jetted to run on ethanol.....your fuel/air mixture may go wonky as ethanol requires more fuel/less air (fuel injection engines have computers that adjust the A/F ratio and your carb cannot do that).

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by oldNslow on 06/04/21 at 06:07:40

The owners manual for my '06 S40 specifically recommends not using any fuel with an ethanol content exceeding 10%.

The manual for my '04 Sportster, which has a CV carb similar to the Suzuki's, and a vacuum operated petco*k, says the same thing.

I've never had any problems running 10% ethanol fuel in either bike, and it's the most commonly available fuel in my part of the country, so I see no reason to try anything different.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by MMRanch on 06/04/21 at 08:45:54

The W650 that I just rebuilt the carbs on must have has some E85 run through it at some point before I got it. The rubber looked like it had been dipped in acid and not rinsed off afterwards . The repair kit had all the new parts but the best price I found was about $30. each. I put a regular petcock - the original was rotten on the inside. Seeing that stuff made a "believer" out of me ... Now I get "Real" gas when I can find it. ;)

It seems like the repair kits would have neoprene seals being as our fuels are going to be changing in the same direction they've been going . :-?

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by badwolf on 06/04/21 at 13:02:30

Like I thought, no one has any real experince with it yet, just I heard, or I think or other old wives tales and rumors.
I think this would be a good experment for DBM. He has a O2 sensor on his rig and could test it for power and jetting with his camera on tach set-up.
They have been using it in other parts of the world for over 20 years.
A lot of bad info comes from the oil companys that want to promote thier own product.(of course they would not lie to us!)

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2019/01/08/646962-explaining-unleaded-88-gasoline.html

The above mentioned Iowa group is more favorable, but does NOT endorse it for our or any bike.

https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/e15/e15-facts/

I have not run the whole tank thru yet, but in 100 miles I have not noticed any differnce. Another 100 miles and I will fill-up and check the mileage.
We are already running 10%, is 15% enough to eat up our carbs and seals?

I like this, getting a good discussion going about fuel!
This could be the next ""OIL WARS"
''GAS WARS''

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by Dave on 06/04/21 at 17:14:26

My experience with E10 is bad enough - I don't need to compound it by using E15. Most of my "bad" experience is from the fact that E10 fuel does not keep well and causes problems in equipment that is used seasonally. If you run through a tank of fuel on a regular basis - it doesn't seem to cause many problems.

When they adopted E10 in this area my fuel mileage on my truck dropped considerably. I used to get 400 miles on a tank regularly....then it dropped to 360. I didn't know why at first and I kept trying the normal tune up items to determine what had gone wrong with my truck - then when I happened to buy gas from a county south of here that still had normal fuel.....I magically got 400 miles on that tank!

I also know that the E10 fuel showed up it started to corrode the aluminum in lawn equipment carbs. Previously to that time it was common for unused lawn equipment to get varnish in the carbs - but not corrosion of the aluminum parts.

We also began to see where rubber fuel lines and carb parts began to dissolve. The rubber fuel line on my mothers snow blower turned to jelly, and each spring I would have to put new accelerator pump diaphragms in my uncles muscle cars. Before the E10 the accelerator pump diaphragms did not dissolve annually!

Today we tend to use Tygon or Silicone based fuel lines that are resistant to the ethanol. It is also likely that most modern equipment is better able to handle the ethanol content - vintage equipment is not.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by MMRanch on 06/05/21 at 08:06:46

:-?

I'm wondering if E-10 might be what happened to the BS-mini bike I just sold ? The float shut-off quit working inside the carb. Our LS650's have a brass seat for the rubber tipped plunger to snuggle up to ... but the BS-212cc had an aluminum hole to snuggle up to. ??? So , with the aluminum pitted then the plunger couldn't ever seat again ... and so ... it flooded , which it did .
I'm thinking I should go pour my "Red-Can" lawnmower gas into one of the fuel injected vehicles and refill them with 100% gas. I add fuel preservative into my Red-Can-On-Hand fuel as it comes off the truck and sometime even add some "Mystery Oil" also , don't ask me why I'll say its a Mystery ! :-/ ?
I normally keep close to 30 gallons on hand ... just in case I need to run the generator , but it all gets rotated/used in a years time.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by badwolf on 06/10/21 at 05:38:53

Burned thru the full tank of 'unleaded 88' and noticed no difference in performance or mileage. So if someone needs to use it should be no problem, if they use it rather than store the bike with it in it. With all the stories and fears that have come in, can't reccomend using it full time for everything, but a tank or two say, in the middle of a trip won't kill your bike.
Would still like to see DBM run it thru his set-up with the O2 meter and camera on tach to see the difference in performance and jetting.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by DragBikeMike on 06/10/21 at 23:34:43

Sorry Badwolf, they don't sell that stuff out here. I can tell you that ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline, so the more you add the A/F ratio gets lower. You need more ethanol per unit of air to make the same power. Only advantage to ethanol is it's resistance to detonation. It allows safe operation with more ignition advance, more compression, and more boost. Just putting it in a stock engine won't do much other than reducing your fuel economy after you increase the jetting to achieve proper A/F ratio.

Seems like a good project for you to take on. This old post gives you some info on setting up the camera. They are dirt cheap these days.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1577664388/0#5

Just shoot the speedo. It will give you the same info. Adjust your jetting to achieve the best acceleration time between two fixed points, for instance 45 mph to 75 mph in 3rd gear. I suggest you test E10 87 octane, E15 88 octane, and E10 92 octane. I'm looking forward to your post.

Best regards, Mike

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by badwolf on 06/15/21 at 12:21:14

DBM, I don't have a o2 sensor so jetting is FAR from a exact science for me. I just cut my white spacer in half and backed out the pilot jet screw till it almost falls off, and it runs fine for me. I live near sea level and have been up to 8,000 feet and it still moves me along as fast as I need to go. Will look at the dyna adapter next time I have it off to see about brazing on a fitting. I've only got 127k miles on it so it is still a work in progress.
As for the fuel, I'll ride out and bring you a can as soon as the bridge is done.

Title: Re: unleaded 88 ?
Post by SCS40 on 06/21/21 at 18:51:35

The manual for my '06 (dated 2003) says only E10. I'm not running anything higher even if available and currently switching back to pure (E0). Doing the same in my car (and old truck) and will begin tracking mileage. The EPA "narrative" is there's only a 3% MPG loss. We'll see.

Note the third comment below (and perhaps chuckle at the second):

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/the-major-differences-between-ethanol-and-gasoline