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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladders. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1619103620 Message started by Serowbot on 04/22/21 at 08:00:20 |
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Title: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladders. Post by Serowbot on 04/22/21 at 08:00:20 People are climbing over Trump’s $15 billion border wall with $5 ladders https://news.yahoo.com/people-climbing-over-trump-15-124142083.html Brilliant New $5.34 Ladder Defeats Not So Brilliant $2.5 Billion Trump Fever Dream https://www.citywatchla.com/index.php/332-editor-s-memo/19307-brilliant-new-5-34-ladder-defeats-not-so-brilliant-2-5-billion-trump-fever-dream http://https://www.citywatchla.com/images/stories/Feb-2020/015c.png Gee,... whodda' thunk'd?... Nobody could'a seen that coming :-? http://https://www.citywatchla.com/images/stories/Feb-2020/015b.png |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/22/21 at 08:31:12 Quote:
I want one of those, 'ladders' that you show in the photo-shopped photo. In fact I'll take 500, of those ladders that you show in the photo-shopped photo for $5.00, that will take the weight, of a SUV over that distance !!!! What do the words, 'according to', 'are reportedly', 'report says', 'probably', etc, etc, etc, describe ? OBTY, Have you had cards made up yet, with your house address on it, welcoming all illegals, and spread them aground the Tohono O[ch700]odham Nation border with Mexico ????????? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/22/21 at 09:03:45 "I want one of those, 'ladders' that you show in the photo-shopped photo. In fact I'll take 500, of those ladders that you show in the photo-shopped photo for $5.00, that will take the weight, of a SUV over that distance !!!!" That isn't photoshopped. Also those also are not ladders, and that fence type pre-dates Trump era fabrication design. That section of fence exists in CA - AZ and the image exists at CBP. I imagine this happened around 2010 - 2012. Serow's article is intentionally misleading when it says "and they've gotten at least one Jeep atop the wall by ramp, but then got it stuck." as they leave out the part that this happened during the Obama Administration. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Ruttly on 04/22/21 at 10:40:34 More fake news |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/22/21 at 10:52:34 I don't know if it is "fake" since it happened. Anyone that thinks all those videos of people scaling the wall with ladders, ropes, lifts etc. is fake has some thinking to do. It is indeed misleading however to claim that Jeep Cherokee is stuck on a Trump built fence. That Jeep got stuck years ago. Those fences haven't worked for decades. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/22/21 at 14:04:16 Without manpower, no chance. The Chinese wall was manned. The fence in DC was manned. Stop pretending anyone said a wall was THE solution. Is crucial element. Take your strawman home. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/23/21 at 11:34:17 The wall in certain geographical areas is useful. The issue to me is cost. I could fence my property for $20,000 and buy a dog and maintain that dog to help secure my property. I could also buy a solar powered motion activated light and camera system that sends real-time updates to my phone and allows me to talk via speaker through the cameras for $1500. I'd rather pay $1500 and a subscription fee of $110 a year for a live feed communications device with automated monitoring than have a fence and a dog for 20 grand. For that matter an open source drone app with weather monitoring will auto launch a drone for me and record anything my cameras pick up, land and upload that footage for the cost of a drone. 30 years ago a fence would have been the better option. Building a border fence today needs comprehensive research and implementation of a multitude of methods. Fences and towers are very archaic methods by today's standards. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/21 at 16:41:29 How many miles around your property vs miles of border? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/23/21 at 19:38:47 "How many miles around your property vs miles of border?" If you want the exact breakdown I can run the calculations but I am sure we all know my property is significantly smaller than the Border. The financial allocation is also significantly different as well as manpower. The same reason for cost analysis applies however. Should we spend a few million on a fence or a few million on a series of sensors? Each section needs evaluated to see what works best for that geography. This idea that a complete wall is an answer is rediculous. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Matchless G11 on 04/24/21 at 03:33:24 2606040C1106630 wrote:
A wall will not stop everyone, (Sadly it probably stops those who really need to get here) However, it by a legal standpoint it gives the border patrol a "out" . "Hi sir, did you see the sign that said you are crossing the the border" "ah , ah, no, I can't read English" "Sir, the sign is also written in Spanish." "ah , ah , I can't read." Well you had to cross a wall, I doubt you missed that." :-? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/24/21 at 07:48:46 I see your point but is it worth billions to give CBP an "out" when ignorance to spatial boundaries is not applicable in court? CBP can enforce the Border and nobody can just claim they "didn't know" as a defense. A physical barrier is advantageous but we are talking billions to get all that placed. Maybe it is useful in the capacity you describe in a method that is fiscally advantageous as well, I couldn't really say. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Matchless G11 on 04/24/21 at 16:07:47 4161636B7661040 wrote:
Maybe not billions for a way just way to give the border patrol a tool. But how much do we spend? For more cars on the road. more health care for those that will not pay. More criminal activity. wealthfare payed to those who never payed in, Loss taxes to under the table workers. Yes there are a lot of good people coming into this country however since we seem to not care who comes over the border. We will also get much rift raft. I lived in a area that had ms13 tags. it seemed that ICE came in and went and chased out the ms13 guys . while ms13 was bothersome to us, they seem to terrorize to legal and illegal immigrants. These are the attitudes that we don't need in this country. let us not let south American gangs in this country. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/24/21 at 18:09:25 48686A627F680D0 wrote:
Ah, Yea !!!!!!! Golly gee Wally, why is it that a structure, with the EXACT SAME SPEC'S, Will cost 3 to 5 times MORE, than the SAME Spec Structure, when built for a State/County/Church/School ??????????????????????????? Of course it don't matter none, cause someone will, spin, and say that never happened. 40 years ago, a County was building a addition to the court house. (Carter was Pres) Because I was involved with other 'county' things, I looked at the specks. A Light fixture, with 2 fluorescent bulbs, Mod Number, Mfg xxx, was listed at $296.87 each, (at 120 of them). The SAME fixture, SAME model number, the SAME bulbs, could be had at the local Menard's, for $12.95 ! (AND LABOR WAS CHARGED EXTRA) WHAT, Where the Hell did THIRTY FOUR THOUSAND Dollar's GO ? WHO's POCKET ????? 15 years ago, a good friend, (who was the Sheriff), asked me to tell him what it would cost to put in a Gun Range in the new building they just built. I came up with the costs, of $175.000.00, with another $4,000.00 for me overseeing the project. He invited me to the, 'Consul', meeting, where the Consul would decide. The Consul decided to 'Accept' the bid of, "$350.000.00, for the SAME THING !!!!!!!! Golly Geeeeee Wally, Ya think, some of them, (or all of them), WERE ON THE TAKE ??????????? Now you are comparing, a little fence, in a little place, for a little distance, to a 'GOVERNMENT PROJECT' ? Do you expect everyone to be clueless ?????? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/24/21 at 18:31:24 Now you are comparing, a little fence, in a little place, for a little distance, to a 'GOVERNMENT PROJECT' ? Do you expect everyone to be clueless ?????? My example is about modern tech, not how much it costs me to build a fence vs the Government. I am saying there are better technological advancements that are better than a fence in some areas. I used my property as an example of modern tech vs fencing. I didn't say my fence would have an equal cost and distance margin. I mean comparing prices for what you get is just as applicable to me as it is to the US Government. Building a fence where other options work better makes more sense. Your gun range example proves this. You think it is better to pay less for the same gun range. Its even better to pay less and get more. I can live-monitor my entire property and have an automated drone, all powered off the grid for less than the cost of a fence. Why would I build a fence? The National Guard covered miles of the Border with drone tech and there were fewer successful crossings. Why build a fence with manned guard towers in that specific area? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/24/21 at 18:42:57 Quote:
What, don't mention the Difference of, A POTUS saying, "Don't Come". and a POTUS saying, 'Come In, Everyone, you will get FREE ...' |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/24/21 at 19:14:06 Quote:
ASSUME SPIN !!!!!!!! Absolutely nothing to do with paying less. It was all about who's POCKET/s, the money went in to !!!!!! A Yep, do a job for the Government, City/Township/State/Fed, And charge 3-5 times MORE, All Because one HAS TO PAY, the BRIBES !!!!!!!!! A-Yep,, the 'GOVERNMENT', where EVERYBODY PAYS !!!!! |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/24/21 at 19:33:28 What, don't mention the Difference of, A POTUS saying, "Don't Come". and a POTUS saying, 'Come In, Everyone, you will get FREE ...' Back to top I already agreed with you in another thread about that topic, I don't need to do that here. I am talking about the fact that those photos were not photocshopped. Also that I do not think that the best use in every inch of space along the border is fencing. The equipment needed to bore into rock and blast along the mountains to stop all of the almost zero immigrants passing through that area is not worth the millions upon millions needed to fence mountainous terrain. Use the technology that best suits the geography, manpower and usage. Just as I assess my manpower budget and property type to decide what works best instead of just fencing every inch of my property I want people to stay off of. Why would I fence an area for 10 times the cost of a light and a camera? "ASSUME SPIN !!!!!!!! Absolutely nothing to do with paying less. It was all about who's POCKET/s, the money went in to !!!!!! " Yeah. So you are saying there was corruption, and you do not think if they pay less, as in the actual cost that maybe there wouldn't be money left to line pockets? I am only saying that JoG is correct when he states that a border wall is not the end all. There needs to be other methods utilized, primarily because cost is too high to just toss up a fence and man every inch of it 24 hours a day. Sensors never fall asleep, go to the bathroom, get sick or accept bribes. Why the resistance to using something like that? You are just finding things to argue about. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/24/21 at 20:05:18 Quote:
Exactly what part of that you disagree with when YOU SAY: " ... in the capacity you describe in a method that is fiscally advantageous as well, I couldn't really say...." Again, the CURRENT POTUS SAYS , (TO the EFFECT) COME IN anyone For ANY REASON at all: Which of course, results in several hundreds of thousands of ILLEGAL VOTERS, VOTING Multi-pal times, FOR THE SOCIALISTIC Ideals! |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/24/21 at 20:15:04 "But how much do we spend? For more cars on the road. more health care for those that will not pay. More criminal activity. wealthfare payed to those who never payed in, Loss taxes to under the table workers. " How much we spend is a nightmare equation in my eyes. There are tremendous variables involved, but I think when we approach such things we are best to compartmentalize certain known factors. Why I question a complete wall is looking just at the cost of securing, transporting and distributing water to the crews needed to get into mountainous terrain and begin the blasting process to move heavy machinery in. Just the water for the work crew is hundreds of thousands. Then the heavy boring equipment needs to be brought in to drill into rock at millions of additional cost per fence section. All that for what reason? Hardly anyone goes through there. Vehicles can't get through. A drone crew for about 750k can cover miles and miles of that type of terrain. So it's not like I am saying to not build a fence and also not use alternatives. I am saying in areas where billions are spent to blast through a mountain range and haul in metal fencing we could spend less and still be able to slow illegal passage by other more modern means. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/24/21 at 20:21:08 "Exactly what part of that you disagree with when YOU SAY: " ... in the capacity you describe in a method that is fiscally advantageous as well, I couldn't really say...."" I was addressing Matchless when he indicated CBP could use the fence as a tool to combat illegal immigrants that claim ignorance to the border location. Considering that "defense" can not be used in court, will not stop an arrest, will not stop detention, I am not sure how much time and cost savings it provides. Will the act of telling an illegal immigrant they should have known that was a border fence be worth the money to put it up? I can't say. It's like saying we need to spend billions to put up fences along roads because drunk drivers can claim they didn't know it was illegal to drive drunk. They can't use that defense in court or to stop an arrest, but it would make it easier for cops to tell them they cant swerve into fences when they are drunk, even if the driver "didn't know". Is that tool worth the cost of those fences? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Matchless G11 on 04/25/21 at 05:19:24 Eegore You got me! At least on that point of just a legal out for the border patrol. Not worth the cost, And I see your point of the cost of making a wall in impossible places. Drones could be better used. I feel people are frustrated at inaction and a over run of people coming in. However I feel the start of a solution may take a more interesting approach. Portland and other place were occupied, Federal buildings invaded. No seemed to care till some crazy guy in a Viking helmet shows' up with friends in the capitol. Someone mentioned this as a strange idea. hypothetically if the border patrol decided to move lets say uummm. about 20,000 immigrants (a bunch of busses) to a new camp on the lawn of 1600 Pennsylvania ave. Might some action on a bolder policy change over night? |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by Eegore on 04/25/21 at 07:48:56 "Portland and other place were occupied, Federal buildings invaded. No seemed to care till some crazy guy in a Viking helmet shows' up with friends in the capitol." I think this has less to do with the Viking helmet and more to do with the investment in national election, or activity verses city activity. If it were black mask clad ANTIFA I'm sure it would have had the same mount of coverage, but the people upset about it would just be the opposite. I imagine fewer people vote in Portland's elections than for the US Presidency. So in that regard there is more vested interest in the US Presidency than whoever runs Portland. Given this I would say that dumping immigrants all over DC like TWH and the Capitol would garner more interest. I say we put refugee camps in multiple cities actually. |
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Title: Re: Trump’s $15 billion wall defeated by $5 ladder Post by MnSpring on 04/25/21 at 15:30:42 Quote:
Sanctuary, Cities ! |
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