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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Retro Thumper project /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1613911521 Message started by Dave on 02/21/21 at 04:45:14 |
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Title: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 04:45:14 A few years ago I built my Cafe' bike - it has been a lot of fun and I love it. Although the small seat and forward lean does get a bit uncomfortable after an hour or two in the saddle - I can ride all day long with some stops along the way. The thread for this bike build was unfortunately made pretty useless when TinyPic went out of business, and all photos were lost. I will gradually repair that thread as best I can. This is how the bike looks now - I have about 12,000 miles on it! |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 04:50:33 I have started to build another bike that will have a bigger seat and a more upright riding position. My goal is to make the bike more comfortable for long rides - so I can take it Touring and ride to the fun spots rather than towing the bike on a trailer when we have group rides in places far from home. The new "Standard" style bike will have side cases and a rack for hauling my stuff. I will build it to look a bit like the Suzuki Tempter which has the LS400 engine and was never brought into the United States. The Tempter has a different frame and it is not my goal to make it "exactly" the same - but make it look similar like a 60's era British Single. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 04:55:34 This is what I have to start with. The Savage is a theft recovery and has a salvage title. When I bought it the fuel tank, key and a number of parts were missing - but I did get 2 engines! The bike had been sitting outside but was not in too bad of shape. In this photo I have already installed the Intruder rear shocks. The seat is from a 1980 Honda CB125, the fuel tank is the same one I used on the Cafe' bike and is from a Suzuki GT380/550. The front wheel is an 18" from my Cafe' bike - I am not exactly sure what wheels I will end up with - I may end up using the cast wheels so I can run tubeless tires. I would like to be able to run the Michelin Commander tires so I can get a lot of mileage before I wear them out. (I have had 3 sets of tires on the Cafe' bike in 12,000 miles). |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 05:00:29 The engine will be modified a bit so that I can pull the double Kawasaki pulley conversion easily. This gearing provides a more relaxed engine rpm for cruising - 3,500 rpm at 60 mph and 4,000 rpm at 70 mph. I will do some head porting, a custom exhaust header and muffler, a Wiseco 97mm piston, DR650 cam. I will likely run the stock carb so that I can use the stock airbox. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by gtenginerd on 02/21/21 at 07:28:38 Thanks Dave. The old posts are really hard to follow without the pics. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Fast 650 on 02/21/21 at 08:09:03 Dave, you can still keep the airbox with a PWK or VM. The hose from the airbox to the carb will be too short and the diameter doesn't fit the carb. The fix for that is to turn that hose around backwards. What used to be the airbox end will fit the carb. Next you make a short spacer from PVC pipe that slips inside the airbox nipple. That diameter will fit the small end of the hose then. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/21/21 at 09:46:28 I’m very much looking forward to this build. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 10:13:43 Gary: This is going to be somewhat of a slow build - as there really is not big hurry as I have plenty of bikes to ride currently. This bike will likely be the bike I can ride as I get old and more feeble, as it will be under 350 pounds and have a low seat height.....it well could be that fossil fuel and recreational travel is illegal by the time I start riding this! My goal is to have it pretty far along by the spring of 2022. In many ways it will be similar to the Cafe' bike - but with a more comfortable riding layout. The seat will have thicker padding, the pegs will be lower and farther forward, the handlebars will be higher and easy to reach while sitting upright. The fenders will provide better protection in wet weather - which is one reason I want to keep the stock airbox and not use a cone filter that is unprotected. The spoke wheels would look more proper on the bike - but I do want the ability to shove a plug in a hole in the tire rather than having to pull off a wheel and tire to patch a tube. I also have a set of Givi hard saddlebags that attach to metal frames so they can be removed. I likely will use a more conventional 7" headlight - the 8" on the Cafe' bike is cool....but it is not easily replaced if I am a long way from home. My approach to the battery and other lights will be the same - use things are are readily available so that I can get replacements easily. I will likely make and extra clutch and throttle cable in case I need a replacement while I am a long way from home. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Ruttly on 02/21/21 at 11:34:28 Very cool Dave , it’s great seeing a senior citizen whoops I meant senior member doing a build. Are you lowering the front end ? Changing foot peg location ? eBay has a array of aluminum tanks made in India for BSA Triumph, Royal Enfield , etc. Not so sure about Thumpin Standard tho , maybe the SDS , the Super Dave Standard. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by LANCER on 02/21/21 at 14:18:46 I look forward to see your ideas form themselves. We have similar physical structure though I’m heavier and I am altering the seat/bar situation a bit as well for more comfort. I’m looking forward to the rides this year and maybe a little less sore this time. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by Dave on 02/21/21 at 15:36:19 Ruttly: Yep, the front end will get lowered. I already have the top clamp that allows the fork tubes to be raised. I do have to drill the holes for the handlebar mounts - I need to get the top clamp mounted and the handlebars I want to use.....so I know where to drill the holes for the mounts. I am not sure yet if I am going to taper the holes to allow them to be mounted in rubber grommets like the stock handlebars. I am going to use the GT550 tank.....it provides about 160 miles of range before reserve and 20 miles after that. The footpegs will be up in the area near the middle of the engine. I am not sure yet the method I am going to use to make the mounts. I don't like the "Title" of this thread either. My Cafe' bike was "Thumpin Special", and that fits as I even used a "650 Special" emblem from a Yamaha XS650 on the body side panels. Since this bike is going to be in a more standard layout I thought to use that "STANDARD" term.....a previous member called his bike "Retro Standard". So......Retro Thumper sounds better. Lancer: My goal is to make a comfortable bike on this project. My Cafe' and your Rex are fun bikes - but if I am going to try and cover 500 or more miles a day on a multi day ride and haul luggage - I need something different. There is a group of fellows I ride with up here that has several guys who are in their 80's and they are still riding - and this may be the bike that allows me to do that. The Savage engine is nice and smooth and relaxed in the 3,000 - 4,000 rpm range, and that is 50 - 70 mph in 5th gear with the double Kawasaki pulley conversion. That is just perfect for cruising down the rural roads or local highways......and if necessary it will be able to get on the interstate. When I go down to MM's house I can go all back roads and have an enjoyable and scenic ride and travel for 9 hours - but 100 miles on I-75 from my house to Mount Vernon, KY can take 2 hours off the travel time. If I take a lot of interstate I can be there in 6 hours.....I do that route in my car or when I am in a hurry. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Rockn on 02/21/21 at 18:42:14 Looking forward to this thread, I think my current project is on a similar path. I found out the hard way the minor difference in GT 380/550 tanks (assuming maybe different years). One has the petcock an inch or so further back, which meant I could use the stock petcock without hitting the head. Thankfully the tank I bought that didn't work for me is in great shape and had a cap, which I'm sure you know what that's worth alone. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 02/21/21 at 20:01:04 Right now I’m changing rear fender, seat, risers and bars in search of the Illusive Upright Seated Position, widely known as “IUSP”. |
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Title: Re: Thumpin Standard project Post by LANCER on 02/21/21 at 20:39:25 1C272A3D2C203B3D262E233C4F0 wrote:
I love this version of the bike with the LS400/650 engine. It could be a World Commuter Bike in this form. A few updates with off the shelf suspension and braking and F/E for the engine.... and please do something with that muffler. SUZUKI ! Help revive the middleweight standard class with a proven power plant. Also take a look at the cam chain tensioner; replaceable cam bearings; and straighten out the exhaust ports like you did for the ‘90-95 model DR650. These will improve engine durability and overall performance. Almost forgot to mention the gears, we could really use a true “Overdrive” 5 gear. One that would make it a real cruising gear. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/22/21 at 10:06:58 Fifth gear is not enough of a jump in gear ratio, that is a really high on my list, too. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/22/21 at 18:43:29 Dave, that engine combo sounds just right. I think you will be pleased with the power delivery, and the vibes should be minimal too. I'm curious how the stock CV carb will work with the bigger engine. BTW, the Fastman is correct about the stock airbox. It's easy to use with aftermarket carbs. Being able to click off 160 miles between pit stops will be sweet. That tank looks great on your cafe. I'm sure it will be equally nice on the Retro Thumper. Am I seeing things or does that Tempter have a kink-free exhaust header? That might be a good way to install a Dyna muffler without having to procure the special adapter. Any one have an idea what the actual model designation is for the Tempter? Is there any sort of parts fiche on-line so we could cross check the part number for the header? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/22/21 at 19:11:16 I don't know of any online parts source for the Tempter....or even what countries they were sold in. There are some parts that would be nice to have access to: Those head cover side pieces with the fins are nicer than the chrome ones on the Savage...and the header and muffler too! And I sure could use a seat, front and rear fender for my project! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/22/21 at 20:12:24 I know for sure it was sold in Japan. I find one in auction house in Japan from time to time 3 to 5k + shipping/ customs. Yeah maybe when I win the lottery ! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by zipidachimp on 02/22/21 at 22:21:31 Dave: the '03-'04 S40 seat is a single and uber comfy with the same cover as later seats. Fits directly into stock seat mounts. $40 on e-bay. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/2BgAAOSwcIpeel72/s-l640.jpg Also, remember this:http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/triumh_bonneville_seat.jpg ? Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/22/21 at 23:03:55 The model designation is ST400. I found this source. https://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-st400v-tempter-nk43a_model50188/partslist/ Looks like those head covers are no longer available. They are part numbers 11171-07F00 and 11172-07F00. Header 14150-07F00 also looks like it is no longer available. I didn't look for the seat. But the illustrated parts breakdowns and part numbers might help you track down some of the tidbits. I did a cursory cross check and many of the Tempter parts are interchangeable. For instance, all of the clutch parts seem to be interchangeable. Same for valves, valve springs & cotters. Anyone familiar with the CMS outfit? I recall seeing it in one of the recent posts regarding muffler installation, the gasket/connector issue. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 02/23/21 at 08:30:36 I hope one of us wins the lottery, there are several here who would like a ST400. [ch128526][ch127949] |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/23/21 at 08:42:59 Dave, I think an ST650 would be a fine street bike for an aging (but not aging-out) rider. If you follow Classic Octane on YouTube (and you should), Taylor uses custom saddles made by Tuffside. You might want to see if they can match a saddle to your tank to give you that Tempter look. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/21 at 16:52:44 I believe the front fender will be this from a 1980 KZ750. It fits the curve of the tire nicely, it has good coverage and will provide a good amount of protection from road debris and water. It needs just a little bit of tweaking at the fork mounts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/21 at 16:56:27 I bought a KZ400 rear fender to graft onto the front part of the stock fender - it doesn't match up real well. I also bought a 1981 Honda Goldwing rear fender to graft onto the stock fender - it hasn't arrived yet. And - I think the winner is going to be a rear fender from a Moto Guzzi California. It won't require grafting onto the stock fender - but it will require some work to make new fender mounts. It appears to be a pretty good match to the front fender I chose and has a nice vintage look. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/25/21 at 16:39:28 I had a bit of a disappointment today. A few years ago while gathering up parts for this bike - I bought a really nice set of Intruder 800 shocks. These are the forum recommended shocks for lifting the rear and getting a better ride. I put them on the bike today - and discovered that although the shocks are bright and shiny and look like new....there is no dampening and the shocks bounce like a pogo stick. These replacement shocks are offered by a motorcycle store in Cincinnati, and they list a telephone number. I am going to see if these shocks would be a good replacement. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-VS700-VS800-Intruder-S50-Boulevard-12-25-Dual-Spring-Chrome-Shocks/251545273618?hash=item3a91444512:g:NZIAAOSw8-VgNAeS https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-VS700-VS800-Intruder-S50-Boulevard-12-25-Dual-Spring-Black-Shocks/262563493070?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D464aa635474341fd80f3c3e7f168959a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D262563493070%26itm%3D262563493070%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab1d8a908-77c9-11eb-9f4b-a2062adfa97a%7Cparentrq%3Adbbd99c21770a99b18501c3cfffd7e18%7Ciid%3A1 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-VS1400-Intruder-S83-Boulevard-12-25-Short-Black-Red-Dual-Spring-Shocks/262579125084?hash=item3d22ef7b5c:g:4WQAAOSwUgdbfuFU |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 02/27/21 at 09:21:25 This looks cool. I just wish your were in a hurry! ;D |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/27/21 at 10:28:47 He is in the vision stage , trying to imagine what he is building , remember shapes and lines are super important , colors are unimportant. Beginning the parts gathering stage , here is where it starts to take shape. Soon there after he will develop the sickness where the project becomes all consuming , everything all thoughts are of the project. Dreams , day dreams every minute of everyday is filled all the problem solving your brain can handle. Buying parts get out of hand , money is the avenue to an end , possible return too normalcy if you can just complete the task at hand. Can you finish it. And then ask yourself , Is it really done ? Of course not ! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 11:34:56 Today I worked on the mount for the front fender. The hoes needed for the Savage forks are a bit higher and a bit closer together than the KZ750 that this fender came from. You can see the old holes in this photo. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 11:35:46 In order to close up the old holes, I cut some 3/8" steel rod on my lathe to use as plugs. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 11:36:25 I set the plugs in just a bit shy of the surface. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 11:37:51 Then I used body solder to fill in the holes. There are a few small divots - but unfortunately you can not add solder easily - as everything remelts and you have to start filing all over again. The small pits will be easily filled in the painting stage. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/27/21 at 11:39:34 What size tire are you using? Should you wait to make this adjustment until you select a wheel and tire? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 11:40:21 The bolt holes being closer together caused a bit of a problem inside the fender, as the bolt heads would have one side sitting on an uneven surface. I made plates that will provide a level inside surface for the bolt heads. These plates are being attached with JBWeld....the epoxy is already applied and the fender is sitting in my car out in the sun (poor mans solar oven). |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 12:11:28 JB Weld curing in the sun! I put masking tape around the piece while I tightened the plate down, and then scraped off the excess that oozed out with a screwdriver - then peeled up the tape once the JBWeld had stopped oozing. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/27/21 at 15:26:36 Gary is right my old & new front tires are both 120/80-18 over 3/4” height difference maybe closer to 1”. Old is dual purpose and new is a performance/touring tire , that’s a huge difference for the same size. I guess there is no industry standards for sizing except the rim sizes. They should use a physical height and width in specs. I hate buying and then shipping them back. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/21 at 16:40:13 4A40444E454C48411F191D2D0 wrote:
The front will be a 100/90=19, and I have a used Dunlop tire and wheel that size on the bike right now. I taped sections of a kitchen sponge to the tire to set the clearance when I marked the hole location. I think there will be enough clearance even with a new tire - if I need more clearance I can slot the holes......I will be getting the bike all put together and running before I do the final paint. For the rear tire I am planning on using a 130/90-16 tire - I am currently shopping for a cast wheel, and then I will buy a set of tires. Initially I am going to buy a set of Shinko tires = no sense buying expensive tires to mount and let sit for a year or two as the bike is finished. Having the rear shocks and correct size tire is what will determine the fender height and most likely the seat height as well. Although spoked wheels will look more appropriate on this bike - I do want to be able to run tubeless so patching is easier when riding a long way from home. I think the tank, seat and rear fender orientation is very important to making the bike look proper......so no permanent structure will be built until I have the rear wheel and tire, shocks, seat and tank all mocked up and I like the lines. In making that decision I also need to consider how the tail light, turn signals and luggage fit onto the frame. After that I believe the foot peg and handlebar choices will be made. Then I believe the work to determine how the air cleaner, battery and other electronics will be laid out. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 02/27/21 at 19:21:23 Dave is so much a enigneer! Everything planed out in order in advance, I think most of us are of the ''Yea, what do I feel like working on today? '' school. A couple sugestions from a long ride junkie, 1- You can't have too big a gas tank ! 4 gallons is good. 5 gallons is better! When you want to ride the twistys, just don't fill it full. 2- Small windshields look cool, but you will hate it in the rain, and cold. I like mine high enough the top edge is directly in my line of sight. You won't notice it after a while and you can roll your neck a little to see over, or under it. ( fog, rain, bright lights at night, and bugs ) 3- Hand guards keep your fingers a LOT warmer. 4- When you ride solo, a short backrest means A LOT on a long day. 5- Soft luggage is handi to take off and carry with you,,,, BUT,,, if you have to leave it on the bike unsupervised, you want at least one hard box you can lock. 6- Buy a GOOD rainsuit, and ALWAYS have it with you. Just a few of my thoughts, I'm sure some will disagree, so ignore if you wish. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/21 at 02:13:39 badwolf: Part of this is a balancing act between having a bike that looks like a vintage bike, and also having a bike that is comfortable to ride. The gas tank I am using is right around 4 gallons - it is the same one I have on the Cafe' bike and has a range around 160 miles before reserve. Having saddlebags and a windshield will likely cut that down a bit. I have a Suzuki OEM windshield to try - it came along at a good price so I bought it a couple years ago. There really won't be a lot of protection on this bike compared to a real touring or sport touring bike. I am putting fenders on that will do a much better job than the tiny fenders on the Cafe' bike.....that is a horrid bike to ride on wet roads, as it throws water all over me. I really try to avoid rainy days - but you know how often a sunny day can have a pop up shower that comes out of nowhere! I was able to buy some very nice used GIVI hard saddlebags. They are really nice as they have a small door that opens on the top - and they also open completely along a bottom hinge. I got them on Craigslist and the owner never used them! If I need more luggage I will likely strap things to the seat behind me.....not sure is I will have any kind of a small luggage rack on top behind the seat. I do have a rainsuit - but not a fantastic one. The leg zipper is always a bit troublesome and gets that little piece of fabric in it that jams the zipper. It is hard to be careful and precise about zipping it up when you are in a hurry! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/21 at 13:36:17 The front fender is modified and mounted. It may get a small mud flap on the bottom if I think it needs less spray from the tire. I will ride it first and then decide before the final paint is applied. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/28/21 at 16:24:51 Looks good Dave. A flap will give it a British look as well as period correct. I was trying my stock fender , looks ok but 19”” fenders just don’t look good with 18” wheel. Maybe I’ll just lower it and call it done |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/21 at 16:37:34 5E79787860750C0 wrote:
I know exactly what you are dealing with......I am currently looking to do another fender for the Cafe' bike. I found an 18" fender from a Honda CB250 Nighthawk that fits well - but it was too long and the mount needs to be revised. I have cut the fender apart to shorten it, and also cut the mount to reshape it. Here is link to what it look like before being modified. https://www.ebay.com/itm/91-Honda-Nighthawk-CB250-Red-Front-Fender-w-Reflectors-FastFreeShip/303871780340?hash=item46c02b65f4:g:WqUAAOSwCh1gGuER |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/21 at 17:15:17 Ruttly: Here is how I have cut the fender to work on the Cafe'. It needs the front welded back on....and the mounts just need a horizontal bar welded on and the holes drilled. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/21 at 17:16:22 Here is how it fits onto a 90/90-18 tire. When it is spaced up off the tire a bit the curve matches really well. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/28/21 at 20:27:45 Your fender lines up perfectly it looks good and low to tire , very nice. I’m looking for easy replacement cause it may never get it mounted on the tracker. Just want a decent steel fender handy just in case I need to do any serious road time. It’s lighter and faster without it. I’ll just lower it a little bit and then if I like it I’ll get it powder coated. Simple and cheap. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 03/02/21 at 01:27:25 The red bike looks great! Can't wait to see how your new project develops. Although it sounds backwards, I'm thinking about doing a double leading shoe drum brake for the front of my bike. I'm going with a retro/cafe look, and the drum def looks the part. At less than 300 pounds, and maybe 40 HP, it doesn't need a ton of brakes. I think a 2LS with modern brake shoe material, properly set up, will provide plenty of braking. Seeing the pic you posted of the 400, reinforces my interest. I found a very clean front hub/brake on Ebay and am cleaning it up. Most of the 4LS units weigh a ton, this 2LS unit is not too porky. Keep those pics coming, Dave! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/02/21 at 15:47:55 Drum brakes are cool in a retro way - and just like twin discs the Savage really doesn't need a 4 leading shoe drum. The GT750 Suzuki had a really big front drum brake - but it was a heavy bike. I am ruining the retro look with the cast and tubeless rims - spokes would be far more appropriate on the bike. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/02/21 at 17:27:38 Dave, O K you are the enginer in the group, so I will throw you a idea I have had for a while. Luggage racks and hard boxes on the back often have a pad or backrest for the passenger, nice, but when your solo it's just a place to strap stuff to. What if you made a parallelogram so you could move it ahead and over the rear seat for the rider to use and move the weight forward? Thought about it building mine, but stuck to just the solo set-up. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/02/21 at 17:55:12 Badwolf: Somewhere I saw a setup where the backrest and luggage rack could be moved forward when riding solo. There are some seats that allow a backrest to be stuck into the seat....either rider or passenger and/or both. The seat has an opening that allows the flat support for the backrest to stuck down into the seat. I need to get much farther along before I know if I have room for a rack behind the seat on this bike. I may end up with some bars along the sides of the passenger portion of the seat - that would allow me to attach soft luggage when riding solo. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/02/21 at 18:01:06 Bars along the side would be perfect to bolt to and move back and forth on, rack and/or backrest. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:29:20 Yesterday I worked on making the GS450 brake disc changes. The disc has a much wider area than the SV650 pads - I didn't like the thought that part of the surface would be unused and the wear pattern would show a "mismatch" of parts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:30:36 I put the disc on my lathe, and cut down the OD. I made some nice "steel wool" that will work great when stripping paint! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:31:13 Here is what the cut down disc looks like now that it matches the pad width. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:32:08 I then marked the disc for drilling some vent holes. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:35:06 I centered the disc on my drill press table and locked it down with a bolt though the center of the table. I could move the table left/right to get the disc centered on the diameter of each of the 3 rows - then rotate the table to drill each hole. After I used the center drill I tried to make the holes a bit larger using a drill bit - it was not possible. The drills would not cut the disc material. I had to be satisfied with the size hole the center bit and tape would provide. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/21 at 05:35:31 The finished disc. I used a Scotch Brite wheel on a drill and my lathe to break the glaze on the disc. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/11/21 at 15:59:07 I did get the tires mounted on the cast wheels, and got them mounted on the bike. The rear wheel fit on using everything from the original wheel, the spacers, pulley hub and brake drum all fit just fine. When I mounted the front wheel using the stock parts it was off center - I had to trim a bit of the length off the left side spacer. The little shield that protects the wheel bearing is just a press fit - and I could slide it in a bit then trim off a bit of the spacer.....then slide the shield back into place. I pushed the bike outside and took a photo with some of the parts set in place. The rear fender needs to move forward a bit and get some of the front bottom trimmed off - currently the mount for the Moto Guzzi frame is hitting the Suzuki frame and preventing the fender from moving forward. The tank needs to be lowered a bit and leveled, the front of the seat needs to be raised....etc. The parts are just setting in place and they need to be modified a bit and mounted properly. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/11/21 at 16:00:46 The bike looks really skinny without handlebars! Kawasaki front fender, Moto Guzzi rear fender, Suzuki tank, Honda seat! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/11/21 at 16:07:24 Solid start. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/11/21 at 16:09:16 Cool keep the pics coming! I love the progress. Getting me motivated to get my 80s project going. I'm not sure the rear fender fits the overall look of the rest of the bike. You sort of have a 70's UJM tank/seat with a retro/cruiser rear fender?? Just seems like an odd combo. Maybe a 70s fender or go retro seat and front fender braces?? Please don't take my thoughts the wrong way. I'm just trying to be helpful and probably not seeing your vision. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/11/21 at 17:32:26 4E49484E4C4E554E210 wrote:
I think the overall look will be better when the rear fender is rotated forward and trimmed to cut down the size - I will likely be cutting 10-20% off the length of the fender. The back of the fender will be much higher and it will have a tail light up where it is just below the level of the seat. One of the things that is making this difficult is finding fenders that are metal and not painted - chrome fenders are impossible to fill holes, cut/weld and modify. A lot of the newer bikes have plastic fenders that are pretty useless for this kind of project. With steel painted fenders you can strip the paint and modify things where you need to - then paint them when you are done. I also wanted the front/rear fenders to match as closely as possible - and both the KZ750 and Moto Guzzi fenders have edges that have rolled shapes. (The KZ750 rear fender did not match the front as it is a fender hidden under a seat and squarish bodywork that includes a tail light - and the Moto Guzzi California front fender is hideous). I initially wanted to keep the front half of the Savage fender and keep the rectifier and starter solenoid bolted to it.....and keep the stock airbox. I bought a Kawasaki KZ400 fender to graft on - it was too narrow. I bought a GoldWing rear fender - it was wide enough but I just wasn't getting the look I was after. I believe the Moto Guzzi fender will work - but it is starting to look like the airbox will have to go as it is keeping the rear fender from moving as far forward as it needs to go. I am working to keep things somewhat like the Suzuki Tempter ST400. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/11/21 at 18:39:31 Okay, I think I'm seeing it now. I figured you had it covered. haha My fender only goes down about as far as the top of the airbox if I recall. I think I put a plate of some sort to and then left used the back of the airbox on the lower part. I'll double check, but it looks like you should be able to pull that off. Edit: This pic is in my build thread. Pretty much what I remembered. http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20161205_220208082.jpg |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 03/12/21 at 05:04:12 That Honda seat looks showroom. Good catch. Where did you find it? You should leave the Honda logo on there. It will be great for story telling. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/12/21 at 09:09:22 Mike: Remember that 1980 Honda CB125 I went to look at? I really liked the seat it had - it just has a tab in the front and two bolts in the back to attach it. I liked the idea I didn't have to figure out how to make the hinges and latch work that a lot of seats from that era use for attachment. So I went to eBay and found one that wasn't in too bad of shape for being 40+ years old! This morning I cut the tab off the Motor Guzzi fender and removed the stock airbox - the fender fits better now. I also may have to cut off the bottom Suzuki fender mount as it keep the fender from moving any farther forward - and the bottom left mount for the air box will have to go. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/18/21 at 14:48:31 I have come to the same conclusion that ohiomoto did when he was working on his bike - there really isn't a good way to drop the front end and still have room for mounting handlebars properly. The upper fork tubes stick up too high to allow a normal size riser/clamp to get the handlebars to clear the top of the raised fork tubes. I called Gary's Goodworks using the link that ohiomoto provided in his build, and my fork tubes are headed to Indiana to get 2" removed. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/18/21 at 17:00:04 I took the fork yokes apart so that I can powder coat them....and I might as well do the fork legs while everything is apart. I got this bike as a Theft Recovery - and I can see how they got away with the bike. The steering lock was broken - they likely just yanked hard on the bars until it broke. I might as well fix this while it is apart. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/19/21 at 04:21:17 Just in case anyone else is interested in having their forks cut down Gordy's Goodworks (not Gary's). :) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/19/21 at 05:05:26 383F3E383A382338570 wrote:
Oooops! Glad you straightened me out before I made the shipping label! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/19/21 at 07:01:30 595E5F595B594259360 wrote:
I'd be happy to cut down your fork tubes....but you won't be happy with the result. :) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/19/21 at 08:56:14 Gary , I also own a sawsall too , forks , springs , frames no problem ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 03/19/21 at 12:16:56 What's you plan for fixing that stem Dave? Replace, weld....? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/19/21 at 18:35:06 74727D01030400300 wrote:
A dab of weld, a pinch of slot milling......a dollop of lathe work. :) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/21 at 17:46:39 Today I put a small bead of weld on the steering stem: |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/21 at 17:48:00 Then with a bit of work with a grinder, lathe and file....it is repaired! Now I just need to convince myself a new lock is worth $70! (It didn't stop the bike from being stolen once). |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/21 at 17:50:04 Then I spent a few hours this afternoon powder coating the fork parts, the rear brake backing plate, and the SV650 caliper. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by zipidachimp on 03/21/21 at 00:41:30 Sorry to be a critic, because I agree with your concept, but the photo of the rolling chassis emphasizes the disparity of the wheel sizes. Not a good look. Using spoked wheels would solve this problem, but tube tires would reappear. Cast wheels of the proper size means probably using a chain drive. Good luck! Suzuki should have done this! Cheers! 8-) ps: a 120/90 on the rear might lessen the rear 'heavy' look and not affect the rideability. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/21/21 at 03:14:57 Zippy: A 120/90-16 rear tire is really not an option - I did a search and there are only about 2 tires available in that size (Kenda,IRC).....and none of them are a tire I want to use. I really want a common tire size so I can buy a tire that will be available if I ruin a tire and need a replacement while far away from home. As I am getting farther along in the fitting process and have been able to get the rear fender fitting more properly - the rear tire size becomes far less evident. The large rear fender does a good job of covering a lot of the tire. I agree that an 18" diameter rear wheel and a 120/80-18 tire would be a lot more in helping to achieve the proper look - but it just isn't an option in a tubeless cast wheel. I believe I can make this setup work in a way that will be acceptable - although not necessarily ideal. The goal is to make a reliable, comfortable bike I can use to go touring - and make it reasonably retro looking. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/21/21 at 08:43:33 Dave, There is always some conflict between building a bike to look great (only), and buiding bike to ride like YOU want and still look good. I checked the Shinko website and the 230's are 100/90-19 front-26.1" od 130/90-16 rear-25.2" od And the 250's are mj90-19 front-25.59" od mt90-16 rear-25.59" od The 250's have a modern tread and would be fine for your first set. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/21/21 at 09:41:42 494B5846585A424B43582A0 wrote:
Are you suggesting I should take the new 230's I bought and installed off the rims - then buy some 250's and use them instead? :o |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/21/21 at 10:17:01 No, I am running 230's on mine and am very pleased. But if you don't want the front to look taller than the back, the 250's are the same size. Unless you ride beside a mirror you won't be able to see them while you're riding anyways! With that big rear fender,(wich I like) and the rear having way more rubber than the front it will be hard to tell the front is a pinch taller than the back. After static balancing the drive pulley/hub, and tire/rim seperatly I now have 6k on the rear 130/90-16 230 and it is wearing very even, should get 9-10k on it. One last thing about lowering your forks 1 1/2", when I run my 16" front wheel with a 100/90-16 tire it lowers the front about the same. You know I'm not normaly a peg dragger, but I have noticed the footboards scraping quite often. Keep that in mind when you mount your pegs. Measure your other bikes footpeg height, don't just go with the botton of the frame.,,,,,(unless you WANT to drag your pegs all the time, it always makes it seem like you're going faster) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/21/21 at 10:41:24 I believe the proper sequence for getting the seat/footpeg/handlebar layout - is to first get the seat mounted (it's location will be controlled by the fuel tank and rear fender). Once the seat is fixed - then the footpegs will be laid out to provide a comfortable position. I believe they should be somewhere very close to being directly under my knees when seated - without my lower leg having to angle very much forward or back. I will try to keep the pegs close the frame and narrow - and not too low so they are apt to drag easily. Then finally I believe the handlebars are the last thing to fit. I really do want to try and keep the 100/90-19 front and 130/60-16 rear, as the tire selection is really good in those sizes. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/03/22 at 03:42:34 Hard to believe it has been more than 8 months since I have done anything on this project. When summer arrives I move on to the yard work that is required, cutting firewood for the coming winter.....and going riding on the bikes that are functional! I have started working on the bike again now that winter has arrived. My fork tubes are still at Gordy's Goodworks........more than 8 months and I still haven't got them back. I have started calling on a regular basis and I keep getting promises that they are the "next" thing on his agenda. At this point I am told they are shortened and the threading is what will be done next. I did a bit of work on the rear hub bearing spacer. In order to install the double pulley bearing I machined the spacer, then machined and soldered on a washer to protect the rubber bearing seal. Here is the bearing and spacer in the Cafe' bike hub......it will be replated before it is installed permanently. This is the KZ750 rear pulley from the Cafe' bike, and I will also be putting the double Kawasaki pulley set on this bike. The gearing change really makes a huge difference......3,500 rpm at 60mph and 4,000 rpm at 70mph really makes for a nice relaxed ride on the highway. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/03/22 at 03:45:40 I also worked on the adapter bracket to mount the SV650 brake caliper on the Savage forks. (The GS450/550 cast wheel rotor has been cut down to the same diameter as a stock Savage rotor). Here is what the bracket looks like. I used steel as I had a nice piece the proper thickness....I might have been able to use aluminum but the piece really isn't very heavy. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/03/22 at 03:47:09 This is what it looks like when mounted. I didn't have the proper length bolts so please ignore the washers and spacers I needed to use while making the bracket. I wanted to get the caliper as close to the original position as possible - but the limiting issue was the interference of the inner caliper bolt with the lug on the fork leg.....this is as close as I can get it. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/03/22 at 05:04:11 I’m glad that the wayward SV caliper finally found a good home. It seems to be the winter for motorcycle projects. Every motorcycle forum that I participate in has multiple winter projects. I’m at the reassembly phase of a CB900 restoration that included a full engine tear down. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 01/03/22 at 07:12:59 Great work Dave! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/06/22 at 10:44:56 I was able to machine a pulley hub for a Kawasaki KZ750 rear pulley....it requires taking a bit off the hub to move the pulley in a bit. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/06/22 at 10:47:08 Then I machined a stainless cover for use under the nuts - to hide the extra set of holes that had to be drilled in the pulley flange. Then I got the pulley hub powder coated, the near double bearing installed and mounted the pulley I finished last year. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 01/06/22 at 11:13:29 So, aside from the added flange, is the new left side wheel spacer the same as the modified one for a double row bearing Savage? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/06/22 at 11:58:55 47746B6368060 wrote:
Yep....the bearing location and spacers are the same. The Kawasaki pulley just has a different offset and bolt circle. The hub just needs the mounting surface shaved off 0.12" for the pulley to be in alignment. I also make a bush to fit the larger center hole in the Kawasaki pulley - but it is not really needed. The Kawasaki pulley needs to have 6 new holes drilled to match the Suzuki bolt circle....and it is easier for me to drill those if the pulley is centered on the Suzuki hub and I can use the existing hub holes to mark where the new holes need to be drilled. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/07/22 at 15:25:58 Looks like Dave is bucking for some new Gold stars. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Edub on 01/08/22 at 14:44:57 Great build, subscribed! It’s wonderful that you have such machining skills. I’m a decent welder, but definitely don’t have machining skills or tools. They certainly seem to come in handy for these custom builds. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:02:22 I am at a bit of a standstill on the frame work - until I get my shortened fork tubes back. So I started working on the engine. This bike is a theft recovery and when I got it from a Salvage yard the engine was out of the bike and in a plastic laundry basket.....sitting outside. The good news is there wasn't much damage and for some reason I got 2 engines! I took the head covers off both engines and as is normal.....both had damaged cams and rockers! The good news is that the piston/cylinder are in great shape, and the inside of the engine was really clean. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:05:31 I can't stand the idea of putting an engine back together with the old sealer between the case halves - nothing worse than an engine that is all freshened up and leaky! The engine had been drug around on the floor.....and battery acid had taken paint off the backside that sits under the battery, and the pulley area was dirty. So I gave the case halves a thorough cleaning, sanding and more cleaning....then taped them up. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:07:20 And painted with VHT Engine enamel withe ceramic. It is a little bit glossier and a little more pronounced metallic flakes than the original......I like it! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:08:32 Then the same for the other side. I wired the transmission cluster into place so the gears/shafts don't fall out......the crankshaft and counter balance shaft are out. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:10:23 Second half sprayed. It took most of the day to get things taken apart, cleaned and sanded. Getting the old paint clean and scuffed up is really time consuming - but it is the only way to get the best chance of the paint sticking! I didn't bother taping or protecting the pulley shaft seal or shift shaft seal, as those will be removed and replaced with new ones. Tomorrow I can put the halves back together. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/16/22 at 17:13:54 I may end up painting the side covers with the same paint. The cylinder and head I am still not sure if I want them silver or black. Maybe a black cylinder and a silver head would look more vintage......I just don't know yet. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/16/22 at 18:22:45 Make sure you bake the paint for 30 minutes at over 200 degrees. The VHT engine paint isn’t cured until it goes through a heat cycle, and it is easily scratched otherwise. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 01/16/22 at 22:10:16 My engine was in the same shape, except the oil was dirtier, not clean at all. Looks like you are doing a top notch job! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 01/17/22 at 15:20:10 Those case halves came out nice. Tell us a bit more about your prep work. What did you use to get into all the nooks & crannys? All my brushed aluminum with clear-coat looks terrible. The triple clamps and forks are especially bad. I'm thinking about stripping and painting all that stuff and would appreciate any tips for prep prior to the paint application. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/17/22 at 15:54:16 The first thing I did was to use full strength Simple Green to clean up the engine as best I could before I took the side cases off. I scrubbed, then rinsed it off with water and then dried things off with my hand held leaf blower. Then I stripped the engine down to the crankcase. I worked on the left side with the cases still assembled and I put the right side clutch cover back on to support the engine so it wasn't wiggling around on the clutch and crank shafts....and I stuffed rags down the cylinder to keep the connecting rod from flopping around. I wiped the engine case down with a rag soaked in Paint Prep.....as cleaner used to remove wax and oils. I used 320 grit sandpaper and I had a little pan of the Paint Prep to keep the sandpaper wetted. I would use paper towels to clean things up and I just kept moving around on the left side until I had everything sanded. I wanted all the paint scuffed up - in some places the aluminum showed through but that is OK too. I used lots of really small pieces and I wore medium weight rubber gloves to keep the solvent off my skin. For the really tight places I use a screwdriver and a bit of Scotchbright pad. When I got the left side done - I removed the clutch cover and split the cases. I removed the cranks and counterbalance shaft, then wire the transmission pieces into the case to they stayed put. I then removed the oil pump from the right side center case and worked on sanding it.....it was much easier to get done without all the weight of the other parts. It was the same scenario of wiping with pain prep, sanding withe the wetted #320, and wiping it down. Then I taped off the pieces I didn't want painted and used an X-Acto knife to trim the tape even with the gasket surfaces. Then a final wipe with Paint Prep, a little bit of time for it to dry, then a few light coats followed by a medium coat of paint. After drying overnight I baked the halves at 200 degrees in my garage oven. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/17/22 at 16:01:36 For the restoration of your clear coated parts.....I have a different method. On my Cafe' bike all the clear coated aluminum parts got the clear coat stripped using aircraft stripper, then they all got sanded and buffed and are polished aluminum. I do need to polish them a couple times each year to keep them looking nice. The bike is stored inside and doesn't get wet too often. On the group rides were we come home wet and the bike sits outside overnight wet.....the aluminum does suffer a bit. For this Retro Thumper project there will be very little bare aluminum. The fork legs and triple trees were powder coated aluminum - the brake backing plate and pulley hub are powder coated black. I am trying to make this bike something that requires a bit less polishing. I don't know if the Suzuki factory clear coat is of poor quality - maybe stripping, polishing and applying a new powder clear coat would be more durable. I know a lot of the used bikes I looked at had crappy looking polished parts and the spokes were corroded. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 01/17/22 at 16:04:43 Garage oven??!! Where can I put one of those in my shop? I need more room! (super jelly on that one!) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 01/18/22 at 14:01:54 I bought a used kitchen oven to use for powder coating.....it comes in really handy! This is the paint prep stuff I use. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 16:19:30 Today while I hid in the garage and listened to the freezing rain on the roof - I worked on the cylinder head. I cleaned up the intake ports - here is the intake side. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 16:20:15 From the piston side. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 02/03/22 at 16:27:30 Drooling... |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 16:27:37 I learned a lot about surfacing a cylinder head the last couple weeks. Initially I tried a plate of glass with sandpaper spray glued to the glass. There was a low spot, and the more I sanded the worse it got. It turns out that the head has twice as much metal on the cam chain side as the other side - so sanding makes the head crooked and the more you sand the worse it gets. So I tried my little milling machine. I found out it is really not up to the job, and my narrow cutter left poor finish. I found out that as I cranked on the wheels to move the table.....the up/down force I put on the handwheel was enough to deflect the table a bit. I tried sanding just a little bit with my glass sheet and sandpaper.....it just kept getting worse as it sanded the edges but not the middle! This proves that either my glass isn't flat, or the sanding process doesn't sand flat - or both! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 16:32:45 So....I followed the method that DragBikeMike used on his lathe. I made and adapter plate from 1/2" aluminum and made holes to attach the head using the 6mm screws, and it is attached to the face plate using 3/8" bolts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 16:33:37 Then I mounted a head and gave it a try......it worked great! No more glass and sandpaper for me! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 02/03/22 at 16:37:25 Nice!! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 02/03/22 at 16:41:58 We used spray bottles of a product called Alum-a-Cut and used it liberally while cutting either on a mill or a lathe. The stuff really helps out with the finish while cutting aluminum. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/03/22 at 17:12:11 Nice work Dave. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/03/22 at 17:19:22 If you zoom in on the head you can see a spot on the top left that did not clean up with the first 0.001 cut - it did clean up on the second cut that was less than 0.001 more. That is the head stud that functions as the drain for the oil from the head (left front).....I didn't want that leaking! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 02/03/22 at 19:45:47 707A7E747F76727B252327170 wrote:
+1 |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 02/03/22 at 21:22:23 Yup... drooling! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/04/22 at 02:07:51 Excellent work Dave. Do you know exactly how much you have removed from the gasket surface? You need to make sure that the special flange on the stud under the exhaust port does not stick out past the gasket surface. You got a beautiful finish. Your lathe works great. Nice job on the adapter plate too. I always have to resist the temptation to use tools like that for raw material. I use an engraver to label them so I don’t screw up and use them to make something else. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/05/22 at 09:01:55 63656A16141317270 wrote:
I was able to get some measurements to day that I think are consistent enough to believe. I did not measure this head before I started sanding/milling/cutting - I never expected it would end up being this complicated. I first tried measuring the distance from the cam bearing surface to the head. I checked 3 other heads and they measured 2.730", 2.732" & 2.735". The cut head measured 2.715" - that would indicate that I cut off 0.015" - 0.020". The second measurement I tried to use was the distance from the head surface to the space between the intake and exhaust valve on the side opposite the head. The 3 stock heads all measured at 0.745" - while the cut head measured 0.7200. This would indicate that the head was cut 0.025". It is a little frustrating that those measurements differ by 0.005" - 0.010" - so I am tempted to believe the measurement to the combustion chamber and say that 0.025" has been removed. That is likely the measurement that is more meaningful as it is from the piston side of the head. Good call Mike.....the flange of the stud does protrude a few thousands. I will likely drop the hole depth in the head a bit. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 02/05/22 at 15:23:29 When I had to rebuild the engine due to road damage, I had 0.015” removed from the head and 0.025” from the cylinder. No issues. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/19/22 at 17:23:56 I have been working on the bike a bit - but some of it was not too exciting or worthy of photos. It took me quite a few hours to get the nuts/bolts/spacers ready for plating. First they got a soaking in phosphoric acid to remove any rust and the previous plating - then they were rinsed and dried. I took them up to the plater and showed them to him....he suggested more work to get them prepared a bit better for more reliable plating. So I spend many hours last weekend - some parts got bead blasted, some got attention from the wire brush, some got bead blasted and wire brushed....and the pieces that were too small got another acid bath, rinse and drying in the oven. They are now at the plater getting barrel plated with Zinc Chromate. I also got some springs at the hardware store that will allow me to assemble the top end and check clearances between the piston/valve so I can select a head gasket thickness to use with the 97mm piston. The springs will allow me to check clearances with only light pressure on the cam and rockers. The closest springs I could find were twice as long as the stock springs - so I bought 2 and cut them in half to make the 4 springs I need. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/19/22 at 17:26:29 The other project was to see what I could do to back cut the intake valves and provide a 30 degree cut underneath the existing 45 degree cut for the seat. I tried using my drill press - but the chuck would only hold the cam end of the valve and it wobbled as it spun.....so that would not work. I made a tool holder that would allow me to mount my Dremel and put the valve in the lathe.....it will work just fine! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 02/19/22 at 20:32:16 I love making special tools! Nice work! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/21/22 at 21:06:25 Necessity is the mother of invention. Pretty cool setup Dave. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/22/22 at 03:59:43 Funny how we can spend an hour or so building a tool that we will use only once or twice. On YouTube I saw several guys that just used a hand drill and bench grinder to back cut their valves.......I just wasn't willing to be that primitive about the work on the valves. I really do love having nice tools and a warm, well lit shop. For years and years I worked with just hand tools in a dark, cold garage - when we built this house 14 years ago I was able to get the garage I always wanted! My hours in the garage is my therapy time! I am at a little bit of a standstill right now on the work on the chassis, as all the nuts/bolts and axles for the bike are at the plating shop getting a new shiny coating. That is why I have been doing engine work for a chassis that is not yet ready for an engine. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by verslagen1 on 02/22/22 at 11:22:53 I'd like one of those! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/22 at 10:28:58 Since all of the nuts/bolts and other hardware to work on the chassis are at the plater - I can't work on the chassis as I have nothing to hold it together! So....the work on the head continues. Yesterday I assembled the Wiseco piston, the head, the DR650 cam, the rockers and cylinder head so I could check clearances. Even with the 0.030" shaved off the head the valves were a long way from the piston. I could rotate the crankshaft and watch the valves open and see the piston coming up and going down while the valves opened and closed. On the intake stroke the valve is open while the piston is coming up, and you can see when the valve starts pulling away faster than when the piston is rising - so I pushed down on the rocker shaft against my "test" springs and I found so much clearance I didn't even bother setting up a way to measure it. Same thing with the exhaust valve.....as the piston was coming up on the exhaust stroke you could see the rising piston coming toward the valve - but as the piston neared the top of the stroke the valve started to close and move away from the piston.......and there was plenty of clearance. I measured the ring end gap on the rings supplied by Wiseco, and both the top and 2nd ring measure 0.012". I need to file the top one to provide 0.015" and the 2nd ring to provide 0.019" of gap. I called Lani at Copper Gaskets Unlimited and I am getting a 0.042" thick copper head gasket and a 0.32" base gasket for the cylinder. This will get me right back to the cylinder height that would have existed prior to taking off 0.030" from the head, and a compression ration of around 9.5:1.....that will be just fine for the long distance touring that I hope to use this bike for. I installed the new Viton valve seals. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/22 at 10:31:50 This is the valve spring compressor and wood block I made to allow me to use my drill press for removing or installing valves. The tube is a piece of electrical conduit that has elongated holes cut in the side. The upper piece is just a weird shaped washer with a bolt and nut inside...the bolt goes into the chuck of the drill press. The wood block supports the bottom of the valve and is at a height that makes the valve stem vertical. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/27/22 at 10:32:18 Here is what it looks like when being used. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 02/28/22 at 18:42:45 I like it!!! (But I bought a valve spring compressor) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 03/01/22 at 08:12:51 Smart! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/10/22 at 17:57:55 I got my copper gaskets in various thickness and began the task of figuring out what would restore the compression to a desirable level.....I wanted to correct for the 0.030" amount that was milled off the head (if I had done nothing and just bolted the shaved head on the compression would have been 10.2:1.....that would have run great but I want this engine to be able to run on regular if I even get in a place where I can't buy premium). After using DragBikeMikes method for calculating the combustion chamber volume - I found the stock 56cc combustion chamber volume was now 51.5cc on my head. With the stock paper base gasket and a 0.026" head gasket the compression ratio of the 97mm Pop Top Wiseco is 9.5:1. I want to be near that ratio on this engine. I have occasionally used 87 octane in my Cafe' bike that has the 95mm Wiseco and a 9.4:1 compression ratio - and it ran fine on the lower octane. If I use a 0.032" base gasket and 0.032" head gasket I will end up with a 9.44:1 compression ratio - a 0.026" base gasket with a 0.032" head gasket and I will have a compression ratio of 9.56:1. I might be better off with the lower value on a bike that I intend to use for long trips. This morning I applied Cerakote to the piston crown - it is a heat barrier that folks apply to high performance engines to help prevent heat damage to the pistons when running high boost pressures....it likely won't do much of anything in this engine (but it looks really nice and it may help prevent some carbon deposits). |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 03/10/22 at 18:10:12 It does look good, even if its only until you button up the motor. I am going to be at this stage in a matter of weeks now. I confirmed my engine builder has started on the head and cylinder. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/14/22 at 19:00:57 The upper end is together.....ported head, 97mm Wiseco, 9.56 compression ratio, DR650 cam, new cam chain, new valve seals and new valves. As soon as my nuts/bolts get back from being re-plated I can start working on the chassis again. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/14/22 at 19:19:34 Dave, What are you going to do about the cam chain tensioner? Stock, Versy, or pawl free/with spacer? A new chain and follower would go a long way without the pawl. You would get to see how much the chain really "wears" rather than how fast the stock set-up destroys the follower. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/14/22 at 19:35:11 I am going to remove the pawl and put a spacer in to limit how far the plunger can move backward. On the Cafe' bike I allowed 1mm of travel.....it is working just fine. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/14/22 at 20:04:27 I have about 20,000 miles on mine since doing that and have maybe 1mm wear. It has to be checked every 10,000 or so, but I think without the follower bending, the chain itself will last a long time. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 17:55:13 With a new chain, good used chain guides and the shaved head - the plunger was out 12mm. I removed the pawl and installed a spacer to limit the amount the plunger could move backward from the 12mm it wanted....and I did not like the action of the plunger. If I pushed it out manually it got in a bind and didn't want to retract. I believe the plunger was getting a bit crooked in the tensioner body. So.....I decided to make my own plunger that was longer and spanned nearly full length in the plunger body. I used a large bolt/nut for the machining, and this photo shows that I had machined some flats and drilled the hole for the chain guide shoulder bolt. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 17:57:03 By using a bolt with a nut, I was able to be sure the flats were level and parallel and whenever I took it out to measure it was easy to get it back into the mill at the same place it was the previous time. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 17:58:54 After I got the flats cut I put the bolt into my lathe and drilled the center hole for the spring - then I started cutting the OD of the shaft. Once I had the OD cut to size I cut it off at the length I wanted. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 17:59:52 This is what the piece looked like with the remainders of the "donor" bolt. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 18:02:17 It now works much smoother as the plunger does not get angled in the housing. I drilled a small hole and countersunk the edge to provide a supply of oil into the housing. It is my hope that the housing will fill up with oil when the engine is running and provide a bit of damping to the tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/17/22 at 18:07:52 I also was able to pick up all my freshly plated parts today! There are nuts/bolts from several cylinder heads, from the chassis of this project, several pulley hub bolt sets, and a lot of old metric nuts/bolts for other stuff that I will use as needed. I spent an awful lot of prep time with degreasing, a Phosphoric acid bath to remove old plating, a vibrating ceramic tumbler, bead blasting and wire brushing so that the plating would work. They sure do look nice! Now I can start assembling the chassis and adapting parts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by badwolf on 03/17/22 at 18:45:25 Dave, Those parts look sweet! You are going to get all your bikes so pretty you won't dare ride them. The new plunger looks awesome, don't forget to mark down extension at xxx mileage, and the max extension you are comfy with. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Armen on 03/17/22 at 21:28:16 Excellent work Dave! Thanks for sharing! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by TheSneeze on 03/17/22 at 22:23:54 Very nice work, Dave! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 03/17/22 at 23:35:39 The new tensioner looks great Dave. What did you have the hardware plated with? Zinc, chrome, nickel? The plating looks good. Was it expensive? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/18/22 at 02:07:42 ;D ;D ;D He got the sickness too ! Atta boy Super Dave |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/18/22 at 02:47:28 64626D11131410200 wrote:
It is plated with Zinc Chromate. Years ago there were several platers in this area, and the local fellows said you could get barrel plating done for $20 a bucket full. Although I never got anything done that cheap - if was pretty reasonable. For bigger parts like axles, sprockets and brake levers the price goes up as they have to hang the parts - and springs need some kind of process to plate the hardened metal......and the priced goes up. I didn't include a photo but I also had 4 axles and 1 sprocket plated, 3 compression release springs and 2 kickstand springs. Unfortunately the price of labor and materials has gone up since the last time I had a bucket of bolts plated 8 years ago.....the cost was more than twice what I thought it would cost. $400! I was really shocked when I went to pick them up and found out what it cost! I will be able to sell the MiniTrail sprocket for a pretty good price and that will help to finance some of this.....it was a new one but the plating was tarnished and it was too ugly for somebody to put on a restored bike. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/18/22 at 17:03:43 0B2C2D2D3520590 wrote:
------------- He sure does! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/19/22 at 03:12:26 446362627A6F160 wrote:
I have been sick for a long time.....ask MMRanch! Thursday provided a big hit on my wallet. My wife needed front tires on her car prior to the trip to Texas. I normally buy them as a set of 4 but she got a nail in 1 tires sidewall last fall, and then broke a cord hitting a pothole as well - so she got 2 new tires about 6 months ago. The new tires I bought on Thursday were $513! The lug nuts on her car are steel with a thin stainless steel shell on them. The car is 7 years old and has 100,000 miles on it, and with all the tires changes and rotations the stainless shell on the lug nuts has become loose and distorted and I have to drive the socket onto the nut. Since the factory lug wrench won't go on the nuts anymore I decided to buy replacement lug nuts that are solid steel with chrome plating.....a set of 20 was $148! With the plating, tire and lug nuts.........I spent over $1,000 on Thursday! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 03/19/22 at 08:24:28 Inflation is running strong. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:34:29 Yesterday was wet and a bit cold.....so I hid in the garage and made stuff. Since I have my plated hardware I can start bolting things together again. I put on the back wheel, then started assembling the forks. I realized I needed to get the turn signal and headlight mounts on the fork tube before I got them attached to the top triple clamp.....so getting those parts ready was necessary. The turn signal mounts just needed the clear coat stripped and new powder coating applied....that took about an hour. I was not all that prepared for the headlight mounts - it was too late to order anything so I began the process of making some mounts. When I made some mounts for the Cafe' bike I used a set of turn signal mounts and modified them to have arms pointing forward to hold the headlight. That headlight has an 8" light and the spacing on the turn signal mounts worked well - for this 7" headlight bucket I will need to make things an inch narrower. I first started by machining a step in the turn signal mounts that will hold the new arms at the proper spacing. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:36:12 The hole that is on the backside now is where the turn signal stalk used to insert - and it is a big hole. I needed to make something that would fit into the hole and have 8x1.25 threads. I started with a 5/8" bolt and milled off once side of the hex. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:38:15 Then I shortened the shank to the same length as the thickness of the part of the turn signal housing where the hole was. Then I drilled and threaded the bolt as shown in the photo. The photo does not show that I then thinned the hex down to reduce the height. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:40:12 I then made the arm that will hold the headlight. I assembled the pieces and found I needed to trim off a bit more of the turn signal clamp as it hit the back of the headlight bucket....about 3/16" had to come off and that is why the curved portion of the turn signal mount is now gone. This photo shows all 3 parts prior to assembly. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:42:31 This is what all 3 parts looked like after the parts were all assembled with JBWeld and allowed to cure overnight. The next step was to file/sand and beadblast the parts to get the ready for powder coating. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:44:06 After church this morning I got all the prep work done and got them powder coated. JB Weld is able to withstand the 400 degrees it takes to get the powder coating baked, and the powder will stick to it. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/20/22 at 11:45:10 And here is what the turn signal and headlight mounts look like when installed. (Hard to believe that this took me about 14 hours of time to complete). |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 03/20/22 at 14:36:44 Time flies when your having fun ! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/20/22 at 17:41:59 Nice. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 04/09/22 at 03:35:19 Work has slowed down a bit on this bike.....garage time has been spent on other issues like getting a bike ready for the Texas ride, assembling a new propane grill to replace our 20 year old one that died.....and doing yard work. I was able to spend some time making the 7/8" hole in a BMX brake lever into a 1" hole so it can be used for a manual compression release lever. When I first did this about 8 years ago I had a drill press and a 1" wood spade bit - it worked but was crude. Now I have a small milling machine and proper tooling - it works so much nicer! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/06/24 at 17:49:26 I was able to get some work done on this project today. The weather was good enough to play blacksmith outside......I worked on getting the fuel tank to fit. This is the bottom of the GT380/550 fuel tank. The center is not shaped to match the top tube of the Savage frame, and the tank sits too high as a result. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/06/24 at 17:51:37 I started at the front of the tank and heated with a torch....then hammered the center down to straighten out the curve and raise the center up higher. The area that has black marker is the area where the top tube splits into 2 tubes and it has not been raised yet. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/06/24 at 17:53:24 This is with more work done - at this point I started putting it on the frame and making small adjustments to get good clearance to the frame. It is a bit ugly.....but the tank now sits down low and looks like it belongs on the bike! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/06/24 at 17:54:37 The Savage tank mounts are in the wrong place for this tank. I cut off the factory ones and used these parts to make the new mount. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/06/24 at 17:55:37 This is what the parts look like when they are installed. The rubber cushions push onto the end of the bolt and the washer goes into the recess in the cushion. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/07/24 at 23:54:00 Never tried anything like that. Pretty cool. So, you just heated the areas up and then used some sort of forming hammer to tap them into the desired shape? It doesn't affect the outside areas of the tank? Can you post a picture of how it looks when it's on the frame? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/20/24 at 15:58:32 I was able to fabricate the rear tank mount today. I made a square pocket to hold a block of rubber that has been sized to fit the cushion mount on the bottom of the tank, and then I bolted a cross bar to it. The bolt will allow me to make adjustment in height if needed. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/20/24 at 15:59:44 This is what it looks like with the tank in place. The tank will be held down with the original factory strap that hooks into the back of the tank. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by verslagen1 on 02/20/24 at 17:21:27 This is what I do for the front tank mount... the rubber buttons press onto the ends of 5/16" allen head bolts. use 1" aluminum rod for the spacers, 1 with a thru hole, the other is threaded for the bolts. size 1 bolt to go thru the spacer, frame and halfway into the threaded spacer. the other bolt is short, you just need the head to mount the rubber button. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/21/24 at 20:41:56 That is a very slick rear tank mount Dave. I'm lovin that you incorporated an adjustment feature along with resilient mounting. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 02/22/24 at 18:38:53 How did I miss this a couple of days ago? Weird. Anyway... Looking good Dave. I can't wait to see how it comes together. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/23/24 at 05:40:45 That's a great solution on the tank mount. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/23/24 at 10:33:07 Are you doing a stock engine or one with a bit of spice ? Maybe some knee pads on the tank too , seal in that British look. I’ve been trying to add very subtle British accents without over doing it to the 250. But then again it’s a BSA. I like the creative fabrication for the tank mounting. Very interested in your build , I learn from others as they power thru the problem solving process. Chain or belt ? Can’t wait to see it ! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/24 at 16:07:56 The engine has a 97mm Wiseco pop top (DR650 piston) that has 9.5:1 compression. The head has been ported, DR650 camshaft, Mikuni VM 38mm carb, DR650 clutch mod with an extra steel and fiber plate, Sneezy clutch cam. The goal was to make an nice torquey engine to pull the high gearing and allow for comfortable cruising on the highway. The final drive will be belt with the Kawasaki EN500 front pulley and KZ750 rear pulley. On my Cafe' bike this provides 3,500 rpm at 60mph and 4,000 rpm at 70mph. I am not sure yet about the paint scheme and final touches. I do have a set of Givi removable hard sidebags that will be used - so I need to adapt the mounts to this bike (I believe the original owner had an SV650 and that is what the bag mounts are from). Today I worked on removing a pound of brackets that are no longer needed. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/24 at 16:08:20 Sometimes the best workbench is the lawn! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/24 at 16:10:00 Armen would be proud of me.....I lightened the load a bit. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/23/24 at 16:13:56 I had the bike on the ground and checked the fork clearance with the mounted tank - thankfully it clears and I won't need to modify the fork stop as I did on the Cafe' bike (On the Cafe' bike the clip on handlebars got too close to the tank with the stock fork stops and I had to reduce the travel a small amount). I am at a bit of a stopping point on the bodywork, footpegs and rear fender until the seat arrives from Vietnam. I will put an engine in the frame and start working on the wiring, battery mount, engine breather, air cleaner and handlebar controls. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/23/24 at 17:28:38 That will silence the critics ! ;D Looks good Dave |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 02/23/24 at 19:13:32 What’s the seat like that’s coming from Vietnam ? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ThumperPaul on 02/23/24 at 19:37:57 Impressive all around! Nice work Dave! Can't wait to see it finished! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/24/24 at 03:29:09 4449464B4D5A1A1F280 wrote:
I am using a Suzuki GT550 seat. A friend has a garage full of old motorcycles and I looked around and just couldn't find a seat that worked better than the GT550....which is also the fuel tank I am using. I don't really like the "flat board" look of a lot of the modern factory or aftermarket seats. The seat coming from Vietnam is a new seat for the GT550 without the chrome trim along the side. The chrome grab rail and rack behind the seat is likely optional and was not on the bike as sold by Suzuki - I won't be able to use that as it mounts to the shocks and the Savage shocks are in a different location. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 02/24/24 at 04:56:15 What was the cost ? Seat + shipping ? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/24/24 at 05:49:29 727F707D7B6C2C291E0 wrote:
$179 - It takes a month to get here! https://www.ebay.com/itm/115757951363?itmmeta=01HQDNZW29D6887495C2RE2VKF&hash=item1af3b62983:g:a6UAAOSweJtkK8z0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwFuSRdv3wAmG5mukoWs6A4AdkBtt56GS9AN6EZocCSbCycTIVIKkqE%2FUamaZrDV4h44h1kLp8R8EyV3MVpuyzc7QaaNcgKzn0IHuDyqN0LveDUMBZV048ZaHuIm5XSfa8slry5K%2BC%2FcZe0VTuor32YRrKL9vIBda0bTOOIfv%2BKTw3KGKJvf8%2F3WN3w1hGZjRVix%2FM8LTy1bZGAqpjBPIn26W7cP%2BeaF3TM06zZ9s3NNlKLnALUtmxPJUxSCvgA2btA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7DB_7W7Yw The chrome trim one is a bit more expensive, and I didn't think the chrome added anything to my build. https://www.ebay.com/itm/115757963680?itmmeta=01HQDNZW29D9ME4RYEC3710WEH&hash=item1af3b659a0:g:7NMAAOSwNuZkK9ZQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4GXVMM1xOgweL7e5CNFvNATtrhzD4YrCS4AfTU5ickdC9GHyN5nF39dAKYLaSYIpRKguOfAHIHevDFneLsFmwXl%2FvnsZl8pv0mrAWWei9xncTmpFdURzLkBvwhps0r2Ch9%2FMuqAc1jj5nKS9W%2FzFWbdnL5cPYDpcMrQJm%2FabHa8CMYNGV%2BTu9tJkHDFR5t%2BgKOxbox5gfrUA98mj3cYOHKyPH1V2hn1%2FyHxuQHB8P0rLQ8S%2BhdyUVUymiUklUNmcVSrbGh7Rf%2F7tEVHnojTTqC4SJtlXfuBfa4fG6Gc3EXnD%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7DB_7W7Yw |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 02/24/24 at 06:33:44 Hinge the seat for easy access to what’s under it , wiring , carb & air filter. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/24/24 at 15:29:57 Today I worked on sorting through parts and getting things that go on this bike in a nearby box, and created a list of parts to order. I also sorted through my wiring harnesses and found the best one. I had one that was mostly junk, one that came with this theft recovery bike and had some wires cut, and I had a good wiring harness I bought many yeas ago from a parts bike. I am looking to see where the battery, rectifier, starter solenoid, and other miscellaneous bits are going to be mounted - as I won't be using the stock airbox or battery box. I also don't know what type or size of battery I am going to use. The EarthX lithium battery in the Cafe' bike is still going strong after 12 years of service - so it is tempting to use that again. The reason I am considering something else is that if I am out on the road and I have a battery fail - getting a replacement EarthX in a hurry is not likely to happen. I may be better off with a more standard battery that I could replace at a dealer or even Tractor Supply, Autozone or similar stores. I cut about a pound of electric stuff I won't need - decompression solenoid, side stand switch, clutch switch, sidestand relay, sidestand diode, decompression relay. The stuff at the bottom of the photo is what was cut out of the harness. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 02/28/24 at 13:15:26 12 years and still goin strong, why would you consider any other battery? Last time I tried to order a lithium battery they wouldn't ship to Hawaii. I believe I could probably order from an independent shop. Someday maybe I will try that. I go through batteries like crazy. The AGMs fail with absolutely no warning, so I buy the kind that come with a separate container of acid and keep a fresh spare all the time. I like Harley Sportster batteries because I know I will always be able to find one (Walmart, AutoZone, dealer, etc.). When my current battery craps out, I fill up the new one and swap. What a PIA. Can only dream about gettin 12 years out of a battery. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/28/24 at 15:40:46 17111E62606763530 wrote:
Mostly because the EarthX is small - and if it craps out while I am away from home I likely won't be able to find anything to fit to get home. I suppose I could do what a friend of mine did when the charging system went out on his bike. He bought a car battery and strapped it to his luggage rack and extended wires to reach the original powers wires - and he unhooked his headlight to save power. The battery kept powering his bike for the 10 hours or riding it took to get home. I likely would not have to buy a car battery - but if I could not find a battery that fit in the box I could put it in the luggage and extend the wires. I believe your are right as usual DragBikeMike......if I put in the EarthX both my bikes will have the same battery. The battery is small and only weighs a bit more than a pound - so I could even carry a spare from the other bike if I was on a long trip and wanted some security......or I could just make and a set of cable extensions and pack them very easily. https://www.batterymart.com/p-ltx12a-earthx-etx12a-battery.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0tKiBhC6ARIsAAOXutneZ8DgXO3X-nEaj-bLeWIZPOCQ5lFMR1NerS8Tt3pxWp3LQLHYi2kaAj_hEALw_wcB |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ThumperPaul on 02/29/24 at 11:41:22 Only $7.50 each if you buy 200 of them! (plus shipping) https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Universal-comfortable-leather-seat-motorcycle-seat_1600132586160.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.wending_right.9.2b9113bebQSPOk |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 02/29/24 at 13:35:09 586479617C697E5C6D79600C0 wrote:
Well that is a good price - but I would have 199 left over! The seat may not be big enough. I tried a seat from a Honda CB125S and the shape was nice - but it was too narrow to work with the width of the GT550 tank. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/01/24 at 17:50:58 I got my eBay purchased Yamaha XS400 brake pedal and footpegs bought and being shipped so I can copy Ohiomoto's footpeg setup. Tonight I had a little bit of time before dinner and I was able to shorten and thread one of the 2 engine to frame bolts. The local hardware store didn't have any metric taps - so it got threaded 3/8-16 US thread and a couple of stainless acorn nuts. The bolts are pretty hard so a new threading die that was sharp helped a lot. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/02/24 at 04:55:56 Yeah I save those long bolts for shortening for projects. Both my BSAs have a bolt that passes thru both cradle tubes and engine , similar to the Savage. Nice chrome head on the bolt with some chrome or SS washers and a chrome acorn nut looks real slick. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/03/24 at 17:31:32 I was able to spend some time on the bike today. I was close to 60 degrees and it was nice to have the doors open while working. I made some tabs to weld on the frame, as I want to install a protective plate at the front of the frame to keep the front wheel from throwing crap on the engine cases. Not so much because I plan on going off road - but just to keep the gravel and other crap from blasting the paint off the engine cases. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/03/24 at 17:32:23 I laid the bike down so that I didn't need to crawl under the frame to weld. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/03/24 at 17:33:31 It turned out that 2 tabs on each side was enough. After welding I applied some etching primer. I will paint the frame once all the welding is done. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/03/24 at 17:38:50 I put the engine in so that I can start bolting parts in place and work out the new parts I need to build to hold the battery, rectifier, air cleaner and to start building the mounts for the footpegs. I will have to wait for the seat to make the upper frame and mount the fender. Here is a photo with the parts set in place. The seat is a bit too small and the GT550 seat will be longer. The rear fender still needs to be moved forward and be trimmed a bit up front - I will have to flatten the front of the fender where it meets the frame so it can be pushed forward (The center of the fender is should be over the center of the tire). After taking the photos I started installing the drive pulleys, belt and covers so that I can fabricate the footpeg mounts to work with those parts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/04/24 at 08:01:37 An amazing transformation ! I have to admit , I wasn’t thrilled seeing the same tank as Thumpin Special. But that’s all gone now I really like it. The wheels look right , love the fenders and that tank really has perfect dimensions, lines and shapes for the bike.Good job Super Dave. Continue ! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/04/24 at 08:15:51 What is that rear fender from ? Not for my BSA , just for future projects and reference. That is one sexy fender. Tempted but it’s not right for my 250SS. The BSA 250 SS in fully completed in my head , I see it , I sit on it , every little detail is done. But I just can’t change anything , it’s a finished product as is. The only thing I can’t see is the stance , its drivin me crazy ! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/04/24 at 09:14:14 The rear fender is from a Moto Guzzi California. The front fender is Kawasaki KZ750. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ThumperPaul on 03/04/24 at 16:41:34 Really awesome, Super Dave! Is this you? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/04/24 at 20:27:23 Who makes that cool wheel chalk ? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/05/24 at 04:39:48 5F637E667B6E795B6A7E670B0 wrote:
No.....this is more like I ride. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/05/24 at 04:49:12 7F58595941542D0 wrote:
These wheel chocks are great - they hold the motorcycle really well as the sides pinch together as the bottom swivels forward. The original was made by Baxley Sport Chock. They are well built and expensive. I was able to buy a used one affordably and it was my first chock. They work great in a trailer as you only need to use one bolt at the rear to hold it in place and keep it from sliding around. https://baxleycompanies.com/products/sport-chock?variant=39329523663022 The copies are more affordable and come apart for shipping. The red one I got on Amazon. I made a threaded plate that is under the trailer floor and a bolt with a small "T" handle on top and it is quick to mount it in the trailer - or remove it and use it in the shop. https://www.amazon.com/MOTOOS-Motorcycle-Front-Locking-Adjusting/dp/B09YRQMB4G/ref=asc_df_B09YRQMB4G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647293822976&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15996831039080709625&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014420&hvtargid=pla-1954344929513&psc=1&mcid=de386689d28b38fa9b922404cb3561d9 The only downside of using them for "building" a bike is the wheel in the chock is lifted a bit - so doing visual things like building fender mounts or bodywork and seeing how it looks requires you to block up the back wheel or get the bike on level ground. Also the chocks are made for 130/70 size tires on modern motorcycles - thinner tires aren't held as secure....but the bike is still held upright. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/05/24 at 04:54:30 I got my footpegs and brake pedal in the mail yesterday. Now comes the time for fabrication. I was going to wait until the seat arrived so I could get the pegs in a good place - however the mount to the frame has really only one place it can be located, and the outer mount has pretty limited location to clear the exhaust on the right and pulley/belt on the left. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ThumperPaul on 03/05/24 at 05:15:49 1D262B3C2D213A3C272F223D4E0 wrote:
No.....this is more like I ride.[/quote] LMAO! You need to hold your chin up! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/05/24 at 07:36:43 I use one of those front roll-on front wheel stands for my cafe racer. I got one one Amazon. It works great, but do know that in order to remove the front wheel from the stand you have to do a quick compress-release of the front suspension and as the forks decompress you need to give a forceful pull-back on the bars to get the wheel to release from the stand. It does take some strength...and if you are an older rider that may be an issue. You could secure the stand to the floor which would keep it from sliding as you pull back...but that isn't very practicable. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ThumperPaul on 03/05/24 at 09:06:32 Don’t get “stock in your chock”. Or is that “stuck in your chuck”. :o |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 03:26:24 Over the last 2 days I was able to get some done on the foot peg mounts. When I looked at the mounts for my RYCA rear sets, I noticed the bracket was bent at the mounts. When the bolts are tightened the bracket is touching a frame weld on the tube that comes down from the seat, and tightening the mounting bolts bends the bracket. To solve this issue I made some spacers to keep the mounts away from the frame weld. I used stainless 1/2" rod to make the spacers. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 03:27:44 Here is where the spacers are located to hold the mounts away from the frame. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 03:30:22 Here is the mounting plate I cut out. It is likely a bit oversize at the moment - I can cut it down once the outer plates are made and I know for sure where I need metal and what can be cut away. Eventually I will weld in a tube between the left/right mounts so that when you stand on a peg the stresses can be shared with the other side - but for the moment it is nice to be able to install or remove once side at a time. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 03:35:04 The peg mount will be mounted something like this - however it is necessary to build another plate and mount it farther out to get the proper width and make room to mount the brake pedal. I am wondering if it would be possible to make some round extensions that bolt onto the inner plate and then to the peg mounts......rather than building a second mounting plate? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by buster6315 on 03/07/24 at 07:41:27 Isn't something that you're after available at a hardware store? Plain sleeves? |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 08:26:49 After spending a bit more time looking at this......the way Ohiomoto did it with an inner and outer plate is likely the best way. It provides a way to mount the brake pivot, and also a gear shift pivot if it turns out I need one. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 03/07/24 at 11:06:00 I never tried anything like this. How do you determine where you want the pegs to end up? I have had several motorcycles over the years where the pegs were just a few inches too far forward or aft. It made the foot placement awkward and uncomfortable. How do you make sure they will be comfy before you weld everything up, or is it a case of take it or leave it? I suspect the seat height and seating position play a big role also. Looks like you are making good progress, and the finished product will be up to your usual high standards. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 15:57:51 I believe there is not a lot of room to move the pegs around....or at least not with using the XS400 pegs as donors. I am trying to keep the pegs inward and as low as possible - the brake pedal pivot and exhaust header limit how far down you can go. I have sat on my Cafe' and held my feet where I believe the pegs will end up, and it seems like a good location. The full bench seat will likely be an inch or two higher than the solo Cafe' seat - and that will help as well. If you look at the photo of my Cafe' bike rearsets on Page 1 of this thread, and then the footpegs on the Suzuki Tempter - you can see that Suzuki kept the pegs pretty far back when they made the Tempter - but they are about the same height as these will end up. I believe I will be a few inches farther forward than the Tempter pegs. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:00:39 I had a pretty good day today - things went well and I didn't seem to make any goofs! It does however amaze me how long all this stuff takes. I spent a long time working on the size and shape of the plate that will hold the XS400 footpeg mount and brake pivot, and figuring out where the holes and extension tube to the inner plate will weld on. I made a rough cut out of the steel, then drilled the holes for the peg bolts and the 1" diameter hole for the brake pivot. At Tractor Supply I found a Category 1&2 hitch bushing that should work just fine as the brake pivot. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:03:23 I had to separate the brake shaft from the brake lever....I likely will fabricate my own lever to better fit the shape of the swing arm. I put the shaft in my lathe and cut the weld down to be level with the arm. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:04:28 Once I had the weld cut down, I chose a socket that would fit over the shaft and support it while I pressed the shaft out. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:05:24 I put it in my press - and it took quite a push to get the remaining weld to pop loose! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:06:50 This shows the weld penetration that was not cut away when I trimmed the weld down to the surface. It made a pretty good "BANG" when it finally broke. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:08:33 Next I had to machine out the ID of the bushing so the shaft would fit inside. This is the first time I have ever done an interior bore like this, and it worked well! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:10:17 Now the shaft fits in the bushing. I don't like the fact that they are both hardened steel and will be rubbing against each other. In the final form I may turn down the shaft and create some kind of brass surface on the shaft. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/07/24 at 17:15:38 I am gaining so much respect for people that do this kind of work with basic tools like hand drills, hacksaws and grinders! I used to work like that - but I have watched for good used tools at affordable prices and I am pretty well stocked up with some fancy tools - and I am learning how to use them. It is hard for me to stay good at welding however - I can go years between welding projects and I lose the skills for nice pretty welds! After dinner I was able to cut the rough blank to the final shape. The square with the "X" inside is where the 1" tubing will weld to the plate and attach to the inner mounting plate. I have found that making a pattern on old file folder paper - then using spray adhesive to stick the pattern to the steel helps me see where to cut much easier than trying to follow a pencil mark or scratch on the steel. My eyes are not seeing as well as they did when I was younger! The bandsaw leaves a pretty rough edge, and the metal has a bit of rust and mill scale on the surface - so it needs some cleaning up. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by LANCER on 03/07/24 at 20:47:27 Thank you for taking the time to give us a play by play of your metal working project. I so enjoy seeing what other folks think up, plan out, and then with a few raw materials and some tools, make it come alive (so to speak) and make it fit in with and look natural on the motorcycle. There are a number of folks who hang out in this forum who have enviable skills, and you are one of them. “But wait, there’s more!” You are truly a kind person, and a good friend. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by FinnHammer on 03/08/24 at 03:33:19 Dave, I enjoy reading this thread. Your cafe is a beauty of the kind that makes me think it could well have rolled off an assembly line, and I mean that in the best sense. I feel torn between bobber or cafe. I think cafe will win. Making pretty welds, I have the same problem. It takes not just talent but most immportant every day practice to make those stacked dime welds. I can't do it either, to my utmost frustration. Argon costs around 70$ per hour, so the cost of practicing is not neglegtible either. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/08/24 at 05:10:23 Thanks for all your kind words and support. I am posting so many of these photos and descriptions so that others may get an idea of how to do things (or how not to do them when the results aren't good). Also to let folks know that modifying a bike is not for the faint hearted or those who cannot remain focused - and it takes a lot of work to get it done. (I have a nephew that can start projects - but he never gets them completed and has filled his parents farm buildings with all of his failed projects......the farm will be sold in a year or two and it remains to be seen what will happen with all of this junk). This is the time of year when I can get a lot of garage time, and being retired helps considerably. There isn't much of anything I can do outside as the ground is just too wet to allow any kind of wood cutting or equipment travel across the yard. I did take a few days last week to build a waste oil burner to put in my outdoor wood furnace. With our cars and equipment I get a significant amount of waste oil that I need to do something with. I had seen on YouTube a number of folks who had built burners that can burn waste oil efficiently. I built this from an old freon tank and some exhaust pipe and copper tubing. It uses gravity flow for the oil - and the oil tank is another old freon tank that sits a couple of feet higher than the burner. The air supply is a 50cfm electric blower. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/08/24 at 05:13:53 It burns about 5 hours of oil in 8 hours. It does not provide as much heat as a wood fire - but for the current 50 degree outdoor temperatures it does keep up with heating the garage and the house. I have been burning it in the daytime when I can watch it - there are no automatic controls or safeties and I need to keep an eye on how it is running and adjust the oil flow to get the burn proper. The fuel/air mixture does change when you switch from burning 5W-20 from a car versus the sooty 15W-50 from the diesel engines - and you have to tweak the valve to get a clean burn. It has turned out to be a winner and I have burned about 30 gallons of oil the past week - I only have about 4 gallons left and I will have used up all the oil I had saved! |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/08/24 at 06:50:43 Well....I am bailing out on the XS400 pegs. They just seem a bit too hard to get right - the brake lever and clearance of the swingarm and header is just too restrictive.....and the shifter lever remains a concern. I am going with a modern set of folding rearsets that will be far easier to adapt. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/08/24 at 17:52:20 The build is looking good Dave. It's fun to follow your progress, thanks for sharing. Build threads are my favorite. I enjoy seeing how others solve problems or improve on what others have done before. I "stole" my front tank mount from your original cafe build and probably some other stuff I forgot about. I know I got ideas from others and of course, I stole some RYCA ideas. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/08/24 at 21:23:44 I have a set like that I bought for the tracker cause they were folding , unlike the Ryca set. They won’t work on the 250 , maybe for the SR500. Super easy to mount and fab control rods , good choice. Good to keep a set on the shelf , never know when you’ll build a bike ! LOL |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/14/24 at 17:22:51 We had a big rain storm this afternoon - and I was able to get into the garage for a bit. (Deb and I had our 30 year anniversary on Tuesday....so working in the garage on that day was not an option). Mounting these folding pegs with built in brake/shift levers is going to make this task so much easier. I only need one mounting point, and it is not located remotely from the peg as the XS400 pegs were - plus I only need to make the linkage for the brake pedal and shifter to function. I wanted to use some 1-1/4" square tubing with 1/8" wall - but I didn't have any. I drove to Tractor Supply, Ace Hardware and Home Depot and they didn't have anything useful. It seems that all the new hardware suppliers are stocking angles...not much else. I did have some 1-1/4" tubing that was 1/16" wall. It was about 2 feet long and I supported each end on a board and jumped on it - it didn't bend or deflect. I decided that I will use it - but reinforce it with a 3/8" bolt in the center. "IF" the mounts were to fail, it would likely be from a tension event that pulls/tears the tubing from the weld. Therefore I can tighten the bolt and put some preload compression on the steel tubing and reduce the tension loads it sees. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/14/24 at 17:26:16 The square tubing is right at 2-1/4" long, and it is close to being correct. If I want to reduce how far the pegs are out - I can take a bit off prior to welding on the outer plates. I will weld the tubes to the inner plates, then use the bolts to hold the outer plates while I figure out how they will be shaped and the location of the pegs. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/14/24 at 17:30:04 The curved area behind the peg mount is to allow a cross bar to be installed to link the right and left side mounts. This will help to reduce the stresses and flex when I stand on the pegs (to see farther down the road or make adjustments to my Fruit of the Loom). I will not install the cross bar until everything else is complete - once the bar is installed it will be necessary to have the muffler and muffler bracket removed from the bike. UPDATE: Last night while I was sleeping........my mind decided that the cross bar will have threaded inserts in both ends, and it will be bolted between the inner plates. This will allow it to be bolted into place and it will be easier to install. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by ohiomoto on 03/15/24 at 19:40:21 That looks awesome Dave. I was going to add a center brace to my mids but it turned out strong enough without it. But, the brace is a superior design for sure. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Ruttly on 03/15/24 at 21:55:05 I thought there was a relief cut from square tubing on belt side ? Same as Ryca just different end plates ? I like it , has to be strong enough to stand on the pegs. Tracker with mids , hmmm. ::) |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/16/24 at 08:25:04 It turns out that I could not use hex head bolts inside the square tubing, as the back side where the hex head is located has a frame member behind - so I had to use countersunk head bolts. I tried all the local hardware stores and I could not find a 3/8" countersunk bolt that was 2.5" long. I drove over to Florence Hardware and they did not have a 3/8" that was long enough - but they did have one in the 1/2" diameter box. So I switched to 1/2" bolts. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/16/24 at 08:27:50 I also found that I had some bolts left over from a previous project that I had center drilled and threaded for a 5/16" center bolt - and they just happened to be a perfect fit for inside the tubing that will be used for the cross bar. I just had to cut the head off and they were perfect! I have cut the bar to the correct length and will plug weld the threaded piece inside the tubing. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by DragBikeMike on 03/16/24 at 10:11:10 So, is the intent of the long countersunk bolt simply to hold things together while toy weld it up? Do you think a set of these mid controls could be fabricated without welding. Almost looks like you could do that. Very nice job. Looks factory. |
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Title: Re: Retro Thumper project Post by Dave on 03/16/24 at 15:27:20 The long countersunk bolt is intended to supplement the square tube for strength - as I would have preferred for the tubing to be a bit thicker. However - it is allowing me to assemble all this stuff and hold it together prior to welding. Once I get the parts bolted together, I can leave them like that until I get the seat figured out - which has the added benefit of allowing me to sit on the set and grab the handlebars and see if I like the position of the footpegs before things are welded up permanently. You could almost bolt a set of mid footpegs together - except for the torque that would occur when the pegs are offset forward or rearward of the square tubing. On vintage motorcycles that have a single bolt and are adjustable - the mounting point and peg have teeth/splines that prevent the piece from rotating once you get it where you want it. I plug welded the cross tube and then used my lathe to cut off the high part of the weld. I cut a small groove between the tube and the inner piece and filled it with JB Weld to make the seam watertight. I will clean that up once the JB Weld is fully set. |
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