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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1613572429 Message started by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 06:33:48 |
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Title: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 06:33:48 Technically I'd say he is correct, people do need to prepare for bad weather. However there are a few issues when in a leadership position. First is there a reasonable expectation for people to prepare for this type of event. In CO sure, snow and power outage is something you prepare for, but we typically won't prepare for hurricanes. A counter argument is one should prepare for no power. But again, no power in one area may mean heat stroke, and in another it means freezing to death. One should have plenty of water and food on hand. Coming from someone who has done that I can tell you when I had a no-bedroom apartment water and food took up most of the room. I imagine I had maybe a months worth for one person. Does everyone have the logistical space, and money, to fortify in place? Another issue, to me, is if the local Government has attempted to prepare and provide citizens with the education and resources necessary. We don't live in a time of each household being self-sufficient anymore. We don't pave our own roads, wire our own grid, filter our own sewage etc. As for the PR, I think the comments are appropriate for the average citizen, but not for an elected official. There is a middle ground, I just don't think ti was reached here. https://www.insider.com/texas-storm-mayor-resigns-said-peoples-fault-if-they-freeze-2021-2 |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 07:30:53 Texas has a long history of energy market manipulation, divestment from infrastructure, designed isolation, and policies that have rendered elevated poverty endemic and senior populations vulnerable to eviction. Without doubt, this has been a grim wake up call for those of us comfortably, complacently reliant on infrastructure inadequate for these times. Unfortunately, Texas has been receiving these wake up calls regularly for years- from flooding, to industrial disasters, to an epidemic of child poverty -power grid failure is just the latest. Of course, many, many people don’t live in circumstances where independent home heating is possible- be it maintaining a personal generator, or fire place. The vast majority of legacy housing suffers from poor insulation, little to no weather sealing, and single paned windows. In a State where so many have shifted from home owners to renters, and with no actionable incentives in place for renovation, the working poor are saddled with high energy costs stemming from an isolated market and structures not theirs to invest in- if they had the money. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 07:41:18 Something to consider: significant power generators in the State did not bring full capacity on-line as parts of the system broke under load and arctic weather- rather, enjoying a 10,100% increase in wholesale prices, they chose to leave capacity idle in order to keep prices elevated and capture outrageous profits. In Texas, the lack of regulation that made this possible is sold as “freedom”. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/21 at 09:14:18 Thank God we at least had sense enough to be P.C.and close dependable energy plants and replace them with idiotic things like windmills and solar panels. Without that idiotic fukkup, power would be dependable |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Rockn on 02/17/21 at 09:35:10 Ah I see you've had your morning conservative Kool aid Justin. Renewable energy accounts for 22% of the energy generated in Texas. This is an easily verifiable fact, but please continue on with the ignorance. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 10:10:47 JoG has a point however the "dependable energy plants" also did not perform. So if I put solar on my property that won't provide enough energy I expect the power-plant to provide the missing energy. In this case the power plant didn't provide energy either. If it were a shortage because there aren't enough power plants I could see validity in the argument, but in this particular case its simply not true. It's like saying someone should have gotten a ride from my reliable gas-powered vehicle that also didn't start that day. As for this topic, this mayor isn't blaming renewable energy, he is blaming people for not being ready. This has some merit but don't expect people to do things that are unavailable to them for events that are not typically expected. If a Mayor in CO said I should have prepared for a volcano by landscaping and heat-shielding my property I would be highly suspect of his/her ability to lead. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 10:40:50 39242820253F232E232A3C204B0 wrote:
Sadly, power to his intellect has been disconnected from service long enough for permanent damage to occur; integrity starved, now capable of little more than regurgitating memes and labeling a world that doesn’t conform to his prejudice as manifest “lies” and “deep-state” conspiracies. So, Justin disgorges junk like this- “Without that idiotic fukkup, power would be dependable” -ignorant of actual circumstance and absent any capacity to recognize his own deficiency. Attempts to educate him about the record reliably fail, met with protest and excuses for why he is invulnerable to learning. This is the dead weight we are saddled with when attempting to confront our challenges. Maybe Justin shouldn’t be blamed for his complete lack of discernment- we don’t castigate short people for not being able to reach the top shelf. Sure, there are tools at hand to enable him to climb higher, and taller folks have been kind enough to hand down what he can’t reach- -but at what point does he become responsible for himself? Sure, the bad-actors that recognize him as an easy mark are culpable for the garbage they feed him, but maybe the Mayor had it right when he wrote “because your (sic) lazy is direct result of your raising”, and “sink of (sic) swim it's your choice!” |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 12:00:55 JoG is not completely closed minded by my assessment. While we may argue about topics, a lot of it has to do with our communication types, so I am %50 of any communication issue I have with JoG. Or anyone for that matter. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 12:50:27 4C6C6E667B6C090 wrote:
It ain’t exactly “argument” when reason is freely dispensed with- that requires a minimal level of honest engagement. There can’t even be genuine disagreement when reality is absent. “The traffic light turned red before the vehic-“ “The light is a deep-state tool.” “Witnesses report seeing the motorcycle enter the intersection 4 seconds aft-“ “Fake news!” |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/21 at 14:09:33 When the weather shuts down a significant portion of the wind and solar system And people die But you don't even consider that Then you think I'm some idiot Well That is on you. What happens when you have eliminated a significant percentage of the What USED to be Dependable energy generating systems And suddenly the Green systems have gone dead? You actually believe those remaining coal and gas powered plants can just suddenly cover the DEMAND?? How MUTHERFUKKIN STUPID are you? If That were possible WHYTHEFUKK were those Now Closed generating plants ever there? You GOD darnED lefties are the reason for all of this. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 17:26:06 "What happens when you have eliminated a significant percentage of the What USED to be Dependable energy generating systems" The problem with your argument is those systems couldn't perform at all, not because they couldn't carry the additional load missing from "green" energy. They simply could not function due to load changes and temperature based infrastructure deficiencies. This is according to ERCOT, but I am sure TX politicians know more about the power grid than the people that run it. It's like saying all these idiots in electric cars is why you have to carry so many people in your reliable gasoline truck, except your truck didn't start because the starter froze. It wouldn't matter how many people you had to carry. "And suddenly the Green systems have gone dead?" No, but its easier to blame them if we fabricate that statistic out of thin air. They are operating at lower capacity, just like the "reliable" power plants. The frozen NG equipment do not rely on wind to operate that machinery, they rely on temperatures above what they are now. If it were a universally connected grid I might be on board with this, but sections failing that have zero "green" energy input have who to blame exactly? https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/21 at 17:48:48 We've watched the elimination of power supply facilities BECAUSE they were deemed Eeevil and replaced by Facilities that simply aren't dependable. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 18:17:03 "We've watched the elimination of power supply facilities BECAUSE they were deemed Eeevil and replaced by Facilities that simply aren't dependable." Yeah and they power supply facilities in areas with zero "green" energy that are not operating and not part of the universal grid can blame "green" energy, that doesn't exist there. My gasoline truck won't start because my starter is frozen, it is the electric car's fault. That's a lot different than saying your truck can't keep up with all the loads it has to carry because none of the electric cars are running. In this case the truck won't start, and the gasoline pump is frozen. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 18:17:54 I rest my case- can’t distinguish between the story in his head and the real world... because he doesn’t dwell in/care for the real world. Even when Eegore tries to explain it real simple-like. *sigh* It would be so EASY to actually do a tiny bit of research- but no, why would Justin do that? He already KNOWS. You can’t fix what wants to be broken. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 19:49:46 Obviously ERCOT doesn't know how their own equipment works. Politicians say the windmills are down and they know more about the power grid than anyone that works in the energy department. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/21 at 20:30:40 Just not believing what you see doesn't change reality. Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says Brandon Mulder Austin American-Statesman Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators. Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt. The fukking things are frozen up |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 21:00:46 Everybody is aware of the turbine icing, Justin. You've grabbed ahold of that like it demonstrates something you've asserted about a consiquence of wind power- yet it does not. That can’t go unrecognized; the web is awash with articles today explaining how and why your understanding is false- It is a defect to only read as far as needed to confirm prejudice. As Eegore rightly stated, industry leaders have explained exactly why what you've said isn't true- it’s on each of us to process that information and revise our understanding. Today and late yesterday, Governor Greg Abbott has been recognized for accurately reporting power capacity issues to local new outlets in Texas- then going on FOX to tell a completely false story. So, while misunderstanding hasn’t been entirely the fault of average Texans, by now we all have had plenty of opportunity to accurately understand what is actually going on- and to recognize lies and partisan propaganda when offered to us. Related- the connection is obvious: Iowa is reported to get about 42% of their power from wind; only a subset of that generation in the West is having turbine outages- about 15%. In that same region, 50% of natural gas production has been nocked out by this weather. Don't take off your shoes- do yourself a favor and just trust that 15% is significantly less than 50%. Well, how cold is it in Iowa, compared to Texas? Yesterday's lowes were -30 in Iowa... and -2 in Texas. Here’s a brief video summation of that circumstance, with minor differences in details: https://youtu.be/qLTKHdnoptM One last bit to be disabused of: wind turbines are not made of recycled coal power plant parts. When an investor builds a turbine, they don't blow up a methane generator- just like when some meterosexual buys an electric bike, they don't show up at your house and impound your Savage. Where did you get that idea, anyway? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/17/21 at 21:30:21 "The fukking things are frozen up" Yeah but why ignore that the NG suppliers are also frozen up and instead fabricate this claim they can't handle the extra load? Why is the frozen NG supply not part of your assessment? You are pretending the "reliable" power plants are functioning, but can't handle the load from the frozen turbines. That's false according even to the source you cite here. Again cherry picking the information and not providing reference in what I can only imagine are hopes nobody can find that cut and paste and read the whole thing and check the supporting documentation. Statesman and Real Clear energy post word for word what you reference. https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001/ https://www.realclearenergy.org/2021/02/17/frozen_wind_turbines_hamper_texas_power_output_660456.html But what about this from the same source: Fortunately for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the state's electric grid, the storm's gusty winds are spinning the state's unfrozen coastal turbines at a higher rate than expected, helping to offset some of the power generation losses because of the icy conditions. Again, there is issue with overuse of "green" energy. However pretending the alternative traditional power is down because of the reduced "green" energy is pointless. Why exaggerate when we can look at what's really happening? What about portions of the grid with zero "green" energy input that also need to roll blackouts? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 21:50:56 Quick question for you, Justin- what percentage of idle conventional power production was not brought on line to compensate for the weather related diminished capacity? Read that again. Got it? Some conventional power producers chose to not bring generation on line because they were making more money from the short supply market, with wholesale prices spiking as much as 10,000%.(no typo- TEN THOUSAND PERCENT) Follow up question: how do idle conventional capacity and lost turbine capacity compare in gigawatts? Moving on. 34 gigawatts of generation capacity has been forced offline- about 27 gigawatts of that is reported to be coal, nuclear, and gas. Got that? About 7 gig of all other sources, including wind and solar. 7 is a smaller number than 27. Moreover, a significant portion of gas capacity is unavailable because it is being burnt by we customers for heat- cold has driven up demand for natural gas, making less available for power generation. The pipeline system is not able to deliver enough natural gas to supply both higher demand for home heating and power generation. So, 1) wind and solar only account for a fraction compared to lost conventional capacity, 2) consumers of gas are competing with electricity producers, and 3) some conventional power generation capacity is still sitting idle due to crass market gaming by power companies. That last bit should really pass you off. You should also be really pissed off that these same problems manifested in 2011, when wind and solar were only 4% of total capacity- and regulators chose not to impose system upgrades to account for challenging weather back then. I didn't know most of this last week- I didn't need to. Question is, Justin, what do you need to know now? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Mavigogun on 02/17/21 at 23:23:27 4E5157504D4A7B4B7B43515D16240 wrote:
Texas has been controlled by the political Right since long before turbine power generation was commonplace in Texas. Famously, the Left has very little power in Texas- especially over the power industry. Turbines are built in Texas because they make money, dude- yet, here you are, blaming the Left? That doesn’t really make sense, does it? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/18/21 at 07:41:43 7A76617E7078706279170 wrote:
Any thought on what kind of infrastructure will be needed for the, MANDATED, Flood of Electric Cars. ? Instead of allowing the Citizens to choose to buy them, and bring up the needed infrastructure piece by piece ? Ah-Yea, that's right. Forgot about the fact that many people want someone else to pay for what THEY want. Soon THEY will want someone else to wipe their azz. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/18/21 at 08:09:08 MnSpring has a good point about mandating a consumer change at a rate that can exceed an infrastructure capacity. We should accept the limitations of "green" energy and be critical of the appropriate methods of implementation. Lying about how "green" energy is why the power is out in TX, instead of acknowledging that NG also froze is not how we should go about doing things. Now people will defend the lies with empirical evidence on the contrary and further fuel the voter acceptance of mandated electric alternatives. If people were honest and discussed the real efficiency losses from "green" energy then maybe people would listen. Abbot - "I was asked a question on one TV show about renewable, and I responded to that question. Every source of power that the state of Texas has has been compromised, whether it be renewable power such as wind or solar, but also, as I mentioned today, access to coal-generated power, access to gas-generated power, also have been compromised." See how much simpler that is. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/20/21 at 18:51:45 0424262E3324410 wrote:
So should it be, people/Citizens need to take responsibility for their own affairs ? Or should it be that a government/entity is completely responsible for, and does everything for them ? Like the flood in Fargo ? For several hundreds of years, the area along the river was, 'flood plain', and many years it produced a wonderful crop. Some years it flooded. Now a developer bought the low land, and built/sold houses. It flooded, and all that impervious area, roads/roofs/hard packed surfaces, caused Many Other areas to flood. Who's fault is it? The Developer ? The City who approved it ? The Buyer who, BOUGHT, in a Flood Plain ? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/21/21 at 00:18:29 "So should it be, people/Citizens need to take responsibility for their own affairs ? Or should it be that a government/entity is completely responsible for, and does everything for them ?" Nobody said the Government/Entity should do "everything" for people. "Who's fault is it? The Developer ? The City who approved it ? The Buyer who, BOUGHT, in a Flood Plain ?" I don't think flood damage as you describe can be assessed at %100 anyone's fault. For instance each home sale would need to be evaluated for disclosure from the seller/Realtor, and each home purchaser's research history into the hydrology of the land would need to be examined at a minimum to assess how much fault percentage they should be assigned. Similar assessments would need to be made for each Developer and their subcontractors. For the city a similar evaluation would need to be made regarding the research done, cost, etc. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/21/21 at 07:24:38 4B6B69617C6B0E0 wrote:
LOL, 2 members IMPLIED it, many ways. ... each home sale would need to be evaluated for disclosure ... ... each home purchaser's research history... ... assessments would need to be made for each Developer and their subcontractors ... ... city a similar evaluation would need to be made ... Very typical reason to put great big gobs of money in someone/s pockets, to come up with the answer that 2 + 2 = 4 |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/21/21 at 09:33:33 "... each home sale would need to be evaluated for disclosure ... ... each home purchaser's research history... ... assessments would need to be made for each Developer and their subcontractors ... ... city a similar evaluation would need to be made ... Very typical reason to put great big gobs of money in someone/s pockets, to come up with the answer that 2 + 2 = 4" However you want to see it. You asked "Who's fault" and when looking at land valuations, hydrology, flood damage, liability, tax structure, purchase history, land development, accuracy of hydrological predictive factors over several centuries, and historical development in the area I think the math is more complex than 2+2. I wouldn't do any of the things I mentioned unless one wanted to pin down exactly "who's fault" it is that a house was built, purchased and damaged by a flood in a specific geographical location. You don't want to look at evidence you just want to blame and try to find reasons that support that opinion. Again it's easy to claim people want "handouts" but it isn't in my opinion, political leadership's responsibility to tell people they should have done better when their families are dying. Tell them that later, after lives are saved, and assist in the future provisions by means of reasonable, elected, tax finance. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by verslagen1 on 02/21/21 at 09:45:13 I'm a Californian, been here all my life except for occasional visits to the lands where molasses doesn't flow in the winter time. If I moved to MN, would the welcome wagon present me with a book on how to prepare for each season? It's been said that the weathermen have been warning Texans for the past 3 weeks that the sky was about to fall on them. Were similar prep tips given? |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/21/21 at 17:15:32 ... If I moved to MN, would the welcome wagon present me with a book on how to prepare for each season? ... Could be ? Their Are Books ! The point IS if you asked, anybody, you would get information on how to prepare for various happenings. And even not asking, you would receive info on how/what to keep in you car for possibilities when traveling in cold weather for 5 (+/-) months. In TX, how many people asked ? I believe the ones complaining, and asking for a handout, are there ones that believe 'government' is to do everything for them. While the majority, simply dealt with the hardships. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/21/21 at 21:22:09 I feel terrible for not building enclosures for the generator |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/22/21 at 07:46:50 594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
You have a Generator ????????? OMG, what a EVIL, (And most likely a RACIST), Capitalist !!! Next thing is, you will probably cary some gasoline when you are driving your S-40 more than a 100 miles to the next gas station. In the words of Greta: “How DARE You’ |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/22/21 at 10:22:27 I DO have a genny. I installed a pretty spendy, kinda difficult to install gizmo so it runs on propane or gas. I built an Extremely dangerous cord, A 220 male connector on each end, so the welding machine supply which is25feet long goes out under the compressor shed, and hooks up. Genny is far enough from the house to not be much of a bother. But My genny didn't freeze up. I'm feeling so Bad because I didn't go harden the power grid. The people who are able to, didn't. The people who WE PAY didn't. So their Negligent Failure allows them to jack up prices after they create chaos. The people who are in charge are not even injured by their decisions, they don't Have to live here. I'm not typing all the contingencies and covering all the nuanced possible answers. I will add That idiot AOC actually said the failure of the supply system would not have happened If It was more of exactly what caused the failure. More wind More solar. The sad part is She believes it |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/22/21 at 19:08:12 "I'm feeling so Bad because I didn't go harden the power grid. The people who are able to, didn't. The people who WE PAY didn't. So their Negligent Failure allows them to jack up prices after they create chaos. The people who are in charge are not even injured by their decisions, they don't Have to live here." This is a different standard than claiming that traditional power supplies would have provided necessary power if it were not for "green" energy taking their place. First: "Green" energy did not take their place. Second: Tradional power failed. Again maybe in a structure that is more understood: Traditional. Power. Failed. It didn't work. It failed also. It failed. It didn't have to compensate for lost power production, it failed. It did not work. It failed. "I'm feeling so Bad because I didn't go harden the power grid. The people who are able to, didn't. The people who WE PAY didn't." Exactly. But did they fail to "harden" the power grid because the of substituted alternative energy? No. They simply chose not to. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by MnSpring on 02/23/21 at 07:24:18 78585A524F583D0 wrote:
I believe they failed to 'harden' the traditional power grid/generators, because, the FDS UL's like AOC and BS, kept telling them, they are on the way out. And the 'new' "Green" energy, is on the way in. Just like a old rusted truck, Ya don't put in new break lines/breaks/tires/drivetrain/moter/etc, BEFORE, it goes to the junk yard. |
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Title: Re: Texas Mayor resigns over weather comments Post by Eegore on 02/23/21 at 13:16:08 "I believe they failed to 'harden' the traditional power grid/generators, because, the FDS UL's like AOC and BS, kept telling them, they are on the way out. And the 'new' "Green" energy, is on the way in." I see the potential in this but wouldn't ERCOT know exactly how long that takes and be directly involved? The last issue was in 2011, and the power grids on either side and above ERCOT coverage winterized 8 years ago. One includes solar on their grid and continually adds it. I find it hard to believe in 2012, when the other power companies started winterization plans that ERCOT predicted the "Green New Deal" or similar 7 years in advance or just because a politician lobbies for "green" energy that the politician can somehow implement it without ERCOT being directly involved in that timetable. We aren't talking about the owner of the rusted truck we are talking about the manufacturer. If Ford is told they have to go 100% electric tomorrow Ford would be unable to do so. They could let their gas-vehicle production facilities deteriorate, but I imagine since they are the ones building the electric car production facility they in turn would know how long it takes to get that facility running. If Ford then lets the gas-production facility deteriorate and it produces sh!tty cars that wont run in the winter, is it their bad planning or is it "green" energies fault? |
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