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Message started by springman on 01/14/21 at 07:46:18

Title: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/14/21 at 07:46:18

I don't believe I ever got the rear tire to break loose on the S40 but this morning doing a quick u turn on the Honda Shadow the rear tire broke loose. I kept control of the bike but at the same time that a jolt of fear hit me, I also had a big smile on my face. I don't know if it is the shaft drive jacking effect that I have read about or just the extra power of the bike but it is something I would prefer not to do unintentionally. Yeah, if I'm actually trying to do it, it's OK, but not when I'm not expecting it. :o

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by MMRanch on 01/14/21 at 08:30:25

8-)

.....................

Those 90deg. BIG Twins ! the first piston hit pulls the tire to its traction limit then the second stroke 270 deg. later piles on that little extra ! Its a good thing its 450 deg. before the first one starts the repeat cycle ... ;)

I had a Harley 1200 Sportster that had similar manners . Then the 883 ... not so much. ::)
The 1200's are tuned hot enough that they require High Test fuel all the time.
I suspect Honda tunes their bikes as Hot as they Dare most of the time ?

How far did it take to grab traction again ? :-?

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/21 at 09:00:07

You gunned it and all that racket scared that poor tire.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/14/21 at 13:26:53

How far did it take to grab traction again? Man I do not know, but it was certainly a little more than I would have liked. It definitely puckered me a bit. ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/14/21 at 16:26:40

Well, it has certainly been an interesting day. I just got home a few minutes ago and about a 1/2 mile from home a pick up coming out of the supermarket parking lot tried to take me out. The pickup crossed the two lanes on the other side of the road, did not stop in between the median and just blasted through. Thank goodness it looked like a bad situation from the beginning as there was another pickup stopped in the turn lane blocking the view so the pickup did not see me but I saw the headlight so I was already on the brake when he blasted through. As I saw the front end of the pickup I increased pressure on the rear brake and locked it up a bit. I caught up to the moron at the next stop light and yelled a few chose words which I'm sure meant nothing to the idiot. Oh well, a lot of rear end action so far today. I wonder?!? ;)

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by Ruttly on 01/14/21 at 17:36:33

Read , learn , practice , master the art of trail braking
Go grasshopper , I mean Springer

I was using trail braking before I knew what it was , I kept on doing it when I learned it made me faster. I was kickin butt watching the guys on TT track slide right off the track ahead of me while I was almost road racing on a dirt track.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by Dave on 01/15/21 at 03:42:29

I feel very fortunate that I learned to ride motorcycles in the dirt, and spent time racing motocross and hare scrambles. Using the front and rear brake at maximum effort was a necessity if you wanted to be competitive. I spent a lot of hours learning the basics of good braking.

When I started riding on the street I learned a few things needed to be adapted. My dirt bike had drum brakes that were pretty crappy, and I was not able to brake hard enough with the front brake to get the rear end overly light - but on the street with a disc brake the front tire can get so much grip that the rear tire becomes really light.....and can skid easily during hard braking. When the rear tire skids you lose directonal control and the back end will swing around - this is the classic cause of the folks who claims "I had to lay her down"! A motorcycle will stop much quicker if you keep it on the tires than it will when sliding across the pavement on it's side.

It is necessary to use very little rear brake during hard panic stops....and most of the braking will be done with the front brake. The front brake should not be gripped hard instantly - it needs to be squeezed progressively to allow the forks to compress and for the weight of the bike/rider to be moved forward and onto the front tire. This entire process can be done in less than a second - but it is progressive and not just an instantaneous application......but instead is a progressive "squeeze" on the brake lever.

Rear brakes work well for normal riding in traffic or parking lots - the front brake is the tool to use when you need to stop quickly. The skill necessary is to learn how to apply the brake quick and hard without locking it up. You should practice this skill on a regular basis, and become able to apply the front brake hard when you need it.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by MMRanch on 01/15/21 at 08:34:43

Wow Dave !

Springman not to turn this into a braking thread but I got to share this with you fellers.

I've noticed that if I'm leaning a just a little ... then loading the front wheel and braking hard ... the back wheel will try to pass the front wheel - just like trail braking .
But its more control-able, because easing off the front brake controls weather the rear follows or comes-up-beside ya.
I hope that don't sound confusing. :-?

Heck , we'll be pitching these bikes sideways while going down strait roads just for fun / Flat Track style ! ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/15/21 at 08:44:52

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I think I applied the front brake fairly smoothly but will admit that when I saw the front of the pickup my right foot did apply more pressure rather quickly. But since I never locked up the front tire, the rear tire skid was easy to control. Thanks for the advice.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by MMRanch on 01/15/21 at 09:21:54

OK , But now I'm going to have to try it on the Savage next time I'm coming out of a low speed 90deg. to see if it will give me that adrenalin boost . :-?

You might have created a monster ! 8-) Maybe a heard of Monsters if we all learn to do it on command ?

Keep up the good work ! ::)

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/15/21 at 12:39:43

You're scaring me MM. Like I said, I've never broken the tire loose on the S40. Let me know how it turns out. ;)

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by Dave on 01/15/21 at 16:24:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t34_gdPf4c0

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t34_gdPf4c0[/media]

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/15/21 at 16:47:10

That's cool Dave. Next time we all get together you guys can do that and I'll video it. ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/15/21 at 16:49:55

I'm just not like Oldfeller and some of you other guys. I actually scraped the right peg and my heel on a right turn today and I find it unsettling. It was a turn I have taken hundreds of times and I guess I just leaned in a bit more than normal today.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/15/21 at 18:49:22

After a few years of a hitting the curves around here, there is one that I have had to yank my foot out from between the left peg and engine on. Springman, if you got here from 1844, it's the first left when you hit North Fuller.
I hung the left peg in a blasted pothole doing a u turn once. Traffic was responsive and park. Nobody honked..
Took some work to fix the peg.
Scrape those pegs too hard and you're going to be replacing them.
I laced the rubber back on with wire.
The end is held precariously flimsily, so, I developed a better style, bike more upright, me, more off the saddle. Speeds through the corner went up.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by MMRanch on 01/15/21 at 20:45:27

Guys , if I geared my Savage down low enough to do that stuff , then it would be red-lining 5th gear at 55 miles per hour ! ::)

But

It would be fun ! :P

It would also make a real Dragon Runner of of it ! 8-)

But I would have to trailer it everywhere I took it. :-/
.....................................................

I used to do stuff like that with my old Honda 175 twin - down in the creek bed at Dad farm in my late teens ... I believe it would be just as easy to do now as then ... maybe even easier ?

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by ohiomoto on 01/18/21 at 17:13:04

True stories:

I stepped the rear wheel out with a little skid during my motorcycle endorsement test. It was nothing, but I thought the examiner might have thought I showing off and was going to get pissed. He nodded his head and gave me the thumbs up! :)

I had a motocross buddy who held an AMA Pro License. He got stopped on the road without a motorcycle endorsement. He handed the officer his Pro licence along with the his drivers license. The officer said "You don't have a motorcycle endorsement." My friend said "Show me the course and I'll ride a f&#king wheelie around it!" He got arrested on the spot!!! ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/19/21 at 09:17:46

That's terrible when a cop has not sense of humor. ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/19/21 at 09:20:07

JOG, I really do not remember the names of the roads I took to get to your house. Heck, I'm still surprised I ever found your house. Your house is well hidden. ;D

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/21 at 08:12:45

Based on my recollection of your exhaust echoing as you went away, I'm pretty sure you went South and took those curves.
Hidden is good.
Not one trick or treater in 15 years.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/20/21 at 13:19:06

Yeah, hidden is good. You have a nice place just hard as heck to find. Thanks again for your hospitality.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/21 at 13:46:41

You were a hoot. So determined to not be a hassle. Dude, I had to convince you that eating enough to be satisfied was okay. You are the kind of guest that is always welcome. I know, being a stranger and needing basic stuff feels funny, but when you were needing to answer the question from the other side of the coin, Would you resent the guy who showed up on his bike and needed fed and a place to sleep?
You said
No.
And I said
I don't either..
Enjoy you. Make yourself at home.
Then, I Hope you enjoyed your meal..
You, Hell, even if I don't agree with your political beliefs, if you are out on the road and want a place to crash, come on down!
Don't start yammerin about it and I'll be cool.

Title: Re: Rear tire broke loose on fast U turn
Post by springman on 01/21/21 at 09:20:14

Thanks JOG. It was fun.