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Message started by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 07:09:55

Title: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 07:09:55

Now that it is getting colder my engine starts worse and worse. Today 42.80 [ch8457] after 2 weeks of not driving, it didn't start at all.

It has a new battery.
Which I am now charging, because I started it almost empty.

I have a 155 jet, would it help to get it starting better?

Does anyone have tips.?

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by norm92de on 12/04/20 at 07:36:47

Zeven,
The main jet won't affect starting. Only the pilot jet and the choke have any effect.

Are you using the choke? You don't mention it. By the way, 42* F is not very cold.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 07:41:40

Yes I use the choke.
Sometimes he gives a few blows with the throttle completely closed. With the throttle open, it does nothing.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by norm92de on 12/04/20 at 08:08:04

Zeven,
Make sure that you haven't flooded the engine. Try starting without the choke a couple of times to clear the unburned fuel.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 08:15:55

I tried that ;)

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/04/20 at 08:16:51

You shouldn't need to give the engine any throttle while starting. If you flooded the engine, chances are you fouled the spark plug. You will need to remove and clean the plug.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 08:24:08

Ok, I didn't know that. When the battery is charged, I clean it and try again.
Thanks.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Dave on 12/04/20 at 09:36:03

The "choke" only functions when the throttle is closed - when you open the throttle the butterfly moves the air flow away from the ports where the fuel flows and you get no fuel.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 11:06:17

Why am I always the last to hear things like this?
I don't watch television, maybe that's why I don't know.

Thanks Dave.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/04/20 at 12:10:16

1B202D3A2B273C3A2129243B480 wrote:
The "choke" only functions when the throttle is closed - when you open the throttle the butterfly moves the air flow away from the ports where the fuel flows and you get no fuel.

Also worth mentioning that our carbs to not have an accelerator pump. Opening and closing the throttle during a start introduces more AIR into the mixture - making the bike harder to start.

The FCR carb on my DRZ has an accelerator pump. If I crack the throttle on that thing its like watching a camel spit.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/04/20 at 13:09:35

http://https://i.imgur.com/asDSklYl.png

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by ckahleer on 12/04/20 at 15:00:43

I would try external things to make it richer before digging into the carburetor. Try these one at a time.
Open pilot screw 4 turns.
Block air box opening 1/2 with cardboard/duct tape.
3/4.
7/8.
If any of the above make it easer to start, install a larger pilot jet.

Also, don't overlook grounding. I had a DR650 that was a bear to start when cold. Cleaning the engine to frame grounding cable connections solved the problem.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by verslagen1 on 12/04/20 at 16:33:46

why did it suddenly go lean?

what have you done to the bike?

if you've already posted it, sorry, I don't have time to go look for it.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/05/20 at 04:48:22

I installed the charged battery and then tried to start with the trottle closed. No starto......

Then I took te sparkplug out, and found that it was loose and half way turned out. :P :-X :-[

Placed a new one, and the engine started right away. :D

I am happy with my new starting skills.
And would like to thank you all very much for your help. Tank you :-*

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by norm92de on 12/05/20 at 08:16:15

I like it when that happens. Problem solved and diagnostic skills improved.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by zevenenergie on 12/05/20 at 09:57:38

Yes, I learned a thing or two 8-)

http://https://i.imgur.com/GzjMD8il.jpg

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Hiko on 12/06/20 at 15:21:21

6A7566757E757E7562777975100 wrote:

I also have had that experience It ran fine then it didnt Right after I bought the bike Tighten plug all good again

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Zepp on 12/07/20 at 12:19:16

203F2C3F343F343F283D333F5A0 wrote:

Happy ending.. I love that!
In my case I hade a slugish last ride in late sumer, I thoght I was out of fuel, put it on reserv and filled the tank on nearest gas station.

It still work slugish, but I did manage to get home.

After a month, I tryed to start it, there was no ignition at all, the battery was caput/broken.

Soo I bout me a new battery, and it started right on!

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/09/20 at 15:50:10

2009 S40 938miles. Florida Panhandle. Bought it 5 days ago and drained the tank. Cleaned the carb. Shot engine fog in the plug and valve hole. Got it to crank with starting fluid but thats it. Got the Raptor on order but trying to crank it with the old battery assisted by my charger. Just now got back with a brand new battery (it's on charge) hoping that in the morning it will fire and run. The plug looks good but dry.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/09/20 at 16:40:22

What does “got it to crank with starting fluid” mean? Do you mean that you got it to fire with starting fluid? If it kicked with starting fluid, and the plug is dry, you have a fuel delivery problem. Hopefully the petcock does the job for you.

When you sag you cleaned the carb, what does that mean?

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/09/20 at 21:08:49

I pullled the carb and carefully cleaned it with instructions from this site. I may have missed something cause it does not seem to get any gas. The oem petcock will flow set on primary but not on any other setting. It runs on starter spray for about 20 sparks. Hoping the new battery will cure it in the morning.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/10/20 at 08:59:21

The new petcock has three positions; OFF - ON - RES. You will have flow to the carb on either ON or RES. The vacuum petcock that you currently have will only flow fuel in PRI without the engine turning over. Once there is engine vacuum (during the intake stroke) fuel flows in the RUN position.

If your OEM petcock flows fuel in the PRI position but not in the RUN position, it is probably working correctly. However, its only a matter of time before it will fail so it is worth the effort to make the change.

Between the new petcock and the new battery, you should have a running motorcycle in short order.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by ckahleer on 12/10/20 at 09:40:00

I may have missed something cause it does not seem to get any gas. The oem petcock will flow set on primary but not on any other setting. It runs on starter spray for about 20 sparks.

The petcock is working properly. With the engine not running, it should only flow fuel in the PRI position.
Do the following to verify fuel is getting into the carburetor.
Turn petcock to ON.
Open carburetor drain screw and a few ounces of fuel should drain out.
After fuel stops draining, turn petcock to PRI. Fuel should start draining again.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/10/20 at 09:45:14

If the petcock is acting correctly, but the carb bowl is dry, then the float height needs to be adjusted. Its possible that the float pin assembly wasn't put together correctly and the float isn't moving in a position to open the needle valve - allowing fuel into the carb.

You can try hitting the float bowl with the big end of a screwdriver to see if it clears the problem...but I'd rather inspect it to make sure it's OK.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/10/20 at 09:57:05

Empty bowl after cleaning requires it to be put on prime to fill the bowl.

If it runs on ether,and you primed the bowl, slap it,

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/10/20 at 16:56:59

UPDATE
2009 S40 Calif model 938 original miles. I've had it 7 days now and worked on it every day with the advice of this forum.
Washed the old gas out of the tank.
Pulled the carb and cleaned it really good with help from this forum.
Charged up the old battery, Pulled plug and timing door and sprayed engine fog.
Put fresh gas in and tried to crank it. It would only run mabey 3 seconds on starting fluid.
Went and got a new agm battery and put it in. No better.
The Raptor valve came in today and I got it installed and plugged the wire wrapped vent hose.
Tried to crank it...no....no...some fireing...some firing and finally it cranked and stayed cranked. Ran like crap and still does. Constant backfires, gotta keep high throttle idle or goes dead. Ran down the road for bout 1/4 mile. Clutch good, brakes good, lights work good. But, this thing runs like a grouchy old man thats constipated.
After getting it hot..drained the black stuff out and put in a new filter and some Rotella. Swear it ran a little better but still grouchy.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/10/20 at 17:45:07

I’d put my money on clogged jets. Don’t clean the jets, replace them. While you are waiting for the new jets to arrive, use carb cleaner and compressed air in all of the orifices. Let the carb cleaner sit in the carb for some time (30 minutes or so) before hitting them directly with compressed air.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/10/20 at 21:51:57

Not saying you are wrong but I did all that. Probably missed something like drilling out the air screw? With only 938 miles on it....it was gummed up but cleaned out quite well. Used plenty of carb cleaner and the one gallon soak cleaner. Man....I hate having to re pull and clean that carb again.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/11/20 at 04:20:36

Is the float height correct? Did you accidentally reverse the main jet and the pilot jet? Is the diaphragm in the correct orientation?

If the engine is running poorly, it’s worth the effort of giving the carb a proper set up.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/11/20 at 08:20:12

2009 S40 Calif model 939miles Florida Panhandle.
I would appreciate some advice on which carburetor kit to order. I live practically sea level.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/11/20 at 09:33:14

A kit usually doesn't give you what you need, and too much of what you don't need. Lancer has a kit that is designed by someone that knows the bike well. If you want a kit - Lancer is your guy.

Selecting jets does take into account your elevation. We also need to know if you have an OEM exhaust or aftermarket? OEM airfilter?

The stock jetting is typically very lean. Even on a stock bike the engine will run better with a 52.5 pilot, 150 main and a white spacer mod (I prefer replacing the white needle spacer with 2 #4 washers).

If you have an aftermarket exhaust you might consider upping the main to a 152.5.

I think the biggest improvement comes from the white spacer mod, since we typically ride 80% of the time on the needle. But if you have a clogged jet, getting those replaced is most important.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by ohiomoto on 12/11/20 at 17:46:47

704F4C544F424D46230 wrote:

2009 S40 Calif model 939miles Florida Panhandle.
I would appreciate some advice on which carburetor kit to order. I live practically sea level.

______

Keep everything stock. Don't buy an aftermarket kit! It should run reasonably well to perfectly fine with stock jetting. At this point you have what sounds like a fuel delivery issue, NOT a tuning issue.

It sounds like it's starving for fuel. While some find that these bikes run a little lean, a properly functioning bike will not suffer from fuel starvation.

I think you are probably on the right track thinking you may still have some restrictions in the carb. But before you go too far, you should make sure your slide is functioning properly.

The slide is actuated by a vacuum created when the throttle plate is opened. If the slide doesn't respond to the vacuum, you won't get enough fuel to go with the increased air being pulled into the engine. This leads to a lean condition.

There are 3 main factors in play here:
1) There are air jets in the top of the carb. One is a main jet and one is a pilot. More than a few people have accidentally exchanged these with the fuel jets from the bottom of the carb.
2) The diaphragm needs to be in good condition (not leaking) and properly seated during installation. An leakages are a problem.
3) The slide needs to move freely in the carb body. There is a black coating on the slide that can wear off and stick to the carb body. With the low milage, I doubt yours is worn, but you need to make sure it is clean and moves freely.

If in doubt, try running the bike without the airbox and confirm the slide is responding to the vacuum created by opening the throttle. If it sticks you need to determine if it stopped opening because the slide is sticking or because the lack of fuel didn't increase the engine RPM enough to create more vacuum. It becomes a chicken and the egg deal because you don't know where your issue lies, but you are trying to eliminate potential issues at this point.

Title: Re: Engine does not start
Post by Slowlane on 12/12/20 at 13:21:21

ohiomoto
Thank you for your input.
You are thinking that it is starving for fuel. While I was in dissassemble & reassemble mode I made serious observation of the slide. The slide and diaphram were just like day one brand new. The two screws in the bottom of the slide that holds the pin/needle were so tight that I left them alone and sprayed a lot of carb cleaner in there and air blew it out several times. I have been away for a day for Christmas and will be back with more updates.
I'm really wondering whether to drill out the air mixture plug or not. Once again Thanks ohiomoto. Illbeeebaaack