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Message started by Rich McLuvvin on 10/28/20 at 18:44:59

Title: Battery draining.
Post by Rich McLuvvin on 10/28/20 at 18:44:59

Hey. I just bought an old savage which was fine for the first week or so but then I left it a week and the battery was dead (it had been strong for the first week). I jump started it with my car and let it run for 20 minutes. As soon as I switched it off, the battery was dead again. Did this several times. Not even the neutral light would illuminate. What would make the battery drain completely and not charge?

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/20 at 19:56:18

are you sure it's charging?

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by ckahleer on 10/28/20 at 21:20:30

After you jump start the bike, verify you are getting over 13 volts at the battery. If not, the bikes charging system is defective. If you do, probably a bad battery. Ideally 14.5 volt when engine is running 2k rpm or higher.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by twhitus on 10/28/20 at 21:28:42

if you dont have a multimeter set the idle a little low when its running and rev it a little, if the head light gets brighter your getting some charging. these things do charge the battery slow so it might not be getting enough of a charge.
the battery may be gone but they are cheap, its a good excuse to get a sealed unit.
dont let it idle on the side stand as it causes oiling issues on the top end.
idle should be set about 1100ish, or 10mph in first gear at idle.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Dave on 10/29/20 at 03:58:54

163B3B2027540 wrote:

I jump started it with my car and let it run for 20 minutes.

If you let it idle on the sidestand for 20 minutes - that could be a very bad thing.

The engine makes very low oil pressure and flow at idle. When leaning on the side stand the right side cam lobe (exhaust) doesn't get enough oil.

Also the bike is air cooled and doesn't get enough cooling air when the bike is sitting still.

If you need to charge the battery......go for a ride!

(I will go and take some replacement photos today and fix the photos in the following thread).

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447331708

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Dennisgb on 10/29/20 at 04:40:33

The first thing I do in a case like this is load test the battery. It’s saves a lot of time searching for a problem when the battery is bad. Batteries will show a full charge after charging and still can be bad.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Armen on 10/29/20 at 07:29:21

BTW, jump starting with a car is a good way to toast a regulator/rectifier. And if the car was running, even worse.
Creak open your wallet, dodge the moths, and take out a few bucks.
Buy a battery charger.
Buy a digital multi-meter.
Charge the battery for a day.
Let it cool down and reinstall.
Check voltage. Prob north of 13V. It's a surface charge. Not a true reading.
Turn on key and see how low it drops.
Hopefully at least 12.5V. 12.7V key off is fully charged.
Hit the starter and watch how low it drops.
Hopefully doesn't drop below 10.5V
Start bike and let run at 2,000 RPMs for at least 30 seconds.
Should see a steady climb in voltage.
Ride the bike for at least 10 minutes.
Let it idle, and see what the idle voltage is.
Rev up til voltage peaks.
Should be around 14.5-15V.
Turn off bike.
Check voltage again.
Should be 12.7V.
If it isn't close to 12.7V, the battery is tired. BTW, 12.7V is fully charged, 6.35 isn't half charged. By the time the battery is around 12.4 (in this situation) it's dead.
Can't test a charging system with a tired battery. Buy a new one.
If the voltage after riding and being revved up (with a good battery) isn't 14.5, then the charging system is unhappy.
Then the charging system troubleshooting begins.
Check AC output out of the stator.
Check resistance between the stator leads.
Do a diode check of the Reg/Rec.
Yes, you need a manual. They'll sell them to anyone. Can't own an old bike and expect to do your own work without one. Buy a paper one. Easier to use than your phone. And you won't get greasy fingerprints on your keyboard.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by ckahleer on 10/29/20 at 08:43:27

[quote author=50637C747F110 link=1603935899/0#6 date=1603981761]BTW, jump starting with a car is a good way to toast a regulator/rectifier. And if the car was running, even worse.
Armen, Can you explain why this would happen. I have heard this before, but electrically can't understand why.
If you have a 12v motorcycle battery or a 12v battery as big as a house, the load (starter on your bike) should draw no more current from the big battery than the smaller battery.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Rich McLuvvin on 10/29/20 at 10:25:49

Wow, thanks for all your responses. So, when I rev the bike the lights go dimmer rather than brighter and I get a misfire. It's obviously not charging. Would you replace the reg rectifier firstly?

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Armen on 10/29/20 at 11:57:55

Hey ckahleer,
Here's what I think happens if you jump a bike off a car:
A bike charging system is typically WAY smaller than a car system, as is it's battery.
A good rule of thumb is to only charge a battery at 1/10 of it's amp hour rating.
SO
Imagine you have a car charging system with a battery with 5-10 times the amp hour rating of a bike, and a charging system equal huge. You connect the batteries, and start the car.
The car system sees a very dead bike battery and charges it with a crazy amount of juice. In no time you're pushing 10, 20, 30 amps through a system designed for a lot less, and a battery that would like to be charged at 1-2 amps. Battery heats up. Plates warp. If it's a lead acid battery (some people still use them!) the battery will boil and produce hydrogen gas (can you say 'Hindenburg?') which is explosive.
The little puny wires in the bike system aren't meant for that kind of load. In there somewhere a ton of juice is going through the reg/rec.
Used to work in a bike shop. Saw lots of toasted electrics when people jumped a bike off a car.
Yes, lots of folks got away with it, but I don't need to be the poster child for a bad idea if it goes wrong.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Armen on 10/29/20 at 11:59:43

Rich,
Buy a meter and a manual and determine the problem.
A lot of people fix electrical problems by swapping in new parts til the problem disappears. Worked on lots of bikes where I saw that done by the previous 'mechanic'.
Engage brain before operating charge card.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by eau de sauvage on 10/31/20 at 02:12:06

Good quality cheap meter: Fluke 101.

Because the battery is such a PITA to top up, wet batteries have usually been run dry a few times on the S40. Should only be supplied with a sealed battery.

Watch the voltage when you start the bike, if it shows good voltage after charging but drops to 9 momentarily when you crank her over, then battery is dead even if it charges up. When you turn the lights on voltage should only drop .5V

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by ckahleer on 11/02/20 at 12:40:34

[quote author=51435754434547220 link=1603935899/0#11 date=1604135526]Good quality cheap meter: Fluke 101.

I agree with getting a multimeter. It is like working in the dark without one.
The Fluke 101 mentioned above is a quality meter at an excellent price, $45. Volts and ohms are 99% of what you will need multimeter for.
If you also want to read current, you can step up tp a Fluke 12e or 15b. $80-$100. If you have a battery that drains over time, you can determine if something is drawing current with the key off.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/20 at 13:42:25

If you own stuff, you need a volt/ ohm meter. If you're trying to figure out if there is a drain, pull negative battery cable, put a light bulb in series.
If it's bright, pull a fuse. Find out which leg of the harness the load is on

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by Zepp on 11/04/20 at 12:47:37

My battery got totaly broke , I got it out, it was a strugle!
In anyway, I put it on charge, it didnt take any, I put the loader to Jump start, take no carge, its broken?
In any case batterys has a limited time, there they works.
It did happen to one of my cars to!
If its broken, its broken!
The great thing is that batterys are kind of cheap and probably the easyest thing to replace?

I left my Savage for a week and the keys was in place I thoght it drain the battery, but then it would take some charge anyhow?

Try a new battery.. im odered the best and a AGM battery, they say its better and last longer.

I realy dont know, have to try.. and I realy dont need this anymore.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/20 at 14:39:58

left my Savage for a week and the keys was in place I thoght it drain the battery, but then it would take some charge anyhow?

If you drain a healthy battery you will probably get it to take a charge.
Kill it flat, for a week? Probably not.
An old, tired battery, run flat by leaving a key in, for it to not take a charge at all isn't surprising.

Title: Re: Battery draining.
Post by flatout on 11/19/20 at 11:54:02

right on