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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
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Message started by Icey on 09/22/20 at 05:55:04

Title: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Icey on 09/22/20 at 05:55:04

Hi Forum,

So i've been having this issue when changing gears from 1st to 2nd and 4th to 5th, the bike will go into neutral, instead of 2nd or 5th gear. Now i know that older bikes (mine's from 94) have a big neutral gear, so this problem will occur more often. But it is starting to annoy me alot. Especially when in higher RPM's the bike just won't get into gear, until i let the RPM's drop down significantly.

I simply can't accelerate quickly in a reliable way. Anyone has had this problem or a fix for it?

ps. CLutch plates and oil have been replaced recently.

Thanks in advance! :)

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/22/20 at 06:47:07

Well, hitting neutral between 1st and 2nd is "natural" because there's actually a neutral between them. However between 4th and 5th it's not. Hitting a false neutral can be an indication of a worn shift drum, but because it is happening between 1st and 2nd, it suggests that you need to adjust your shift lever (closer to your foot) so you get more throw from your shifts.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/20 at 07:22:14

Instead of solving the problem by going at it more carefully, go see how fast you can rip through the gears.

Well, questions first..

Have you had trouble at a stop,getting in first and gotten frisky with it?
Dropped on left side?

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Serowbot on 09/22/20 at 08:13:09

Some folks have improved the 4-5 shift with a lever height adjustment.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/22/20 at 08:33:02

I'll add to my first post, be sure to lube the linkage. I would first clean it with WD-40, and then lube it with a shot of white lithium grease.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by badwolf on 09/22/20 at 09:12:02

Check under the left side case that the linkage is not hitting. People have moved the linkage on the spline where it comes out of the tranny, THAT IS WRONG. To adjust the shifter you shorten or lenghten the linkage pushrod. Moving it on the spline will cause interfernce that will give you all kinds of issues. Most bikes moving the shift lever on the spline is correct, but not ours.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by ohiomoto on 09/22/20 at 18:12:13

My bike is balky between 4th and 5th. Even with a linkage-less shift lever.

I did have an issue with a bent linkage when it was stock. Shifting was spongy and then the linkage broke.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Icey on 09/23/20 at 00:08:41

so what you guys are saying possible fixes are:
1. Shortening the linkage pushrod from the lever to the spline shaft
2. getting a new shift drum (bike only has 8000 miles on it though)

answers to other questions:
1. yes, i have had a bit of problems downshifting as well. When i don't downshift whilst driving, but downshift when i'm standing still, sometimes it doesn't work. Doesn't bother me too much though. I use engine braking alot, so it rarely occurs.
2. nope, I didnt drop it on the side (previous owner might have?) so why?

Could it be a worn out clutch housing? I remember from working on mopeds that these kind of problems could occur from a worn clutch housing. don't remember why anymore, perhaps one of you guys know it.

Thx!

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/20 at 04:40:41

At 8,000 miles, nothing is worn out.
How many miles have YOU ridden it?
You don't downshift until you've stopped?

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Icey on 09/23/20 at 04:56:57

Only 1000 miles on my name so far. And yes, i do downshift whilst riding. I prefer engine braking so i shift alot before standing still.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by ohiomoto on 09/23/20 at 05:07:12

When it doesn't shift while standing still, let the clutch out slightly, pull it back in, and try again. Don't stab at the shift lever, it will get bent. Once bent, it can break which is no fun.

Also, why were the clutch plates replaced with so little miles? What kind of oil is being used? You don't want to use any old car oil.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by ohiomoto on 09/23/20 at 05:19:57

4C405355484B4F5148551816210 wrote:

so what you guys are saying possible fixes are:
1. Shortening the linkage pushrod from the lever to the spline shaft
2. getting a new shift drum (bike only has 8000 miles on it though)

--------------------
You forgot to add...
3. Lube and inspect the shift linkage for possible damage.*
4. This bike is known to not shift to 5th very well (search it up). Mine gets the double tap often.
5. JOG is suggesting that you might need to improve your skills. ;D

As for the clutch...I doubt wear is an issue, but it might not be properly adjusted. You want a little play in the lever while getting as much pull as possible. Cutch adjustment is a bit finicky on this bike and it will affect shifting if it doesn't disengage fully when pulled.

I would inspect the linkage (you'll have to lay under the bike or lay it on it's side) and then make sure the clutch is properly adjusted. Adjusting the linkage will mainly affect lever height which may make it easier to shift, but not directly change the performance of the bike.

Since you don't know the history of the bike you need to check this:

*
5E5C4F514F4D555C544F3D0 wrote:

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/20 at 10:27:12

I would suggest a quicker, more , uhhh,, enthusiastic, shift from fourth.
Its not at all uncommon for me to not use the clutch between second and third, and on up..A quick roll off of the throttle, I use an open palm and slap it shut and raise my toe with some gusto,, no drama,, no jumping, clacking or thumping,,just an instant gear change,, But,, If thats not something ya wanna try, just get some clutch and roll off the gas and lift the toe, it doesnt need to take 2 seconds,, Dont give the gears time to slow down,, Itll go without hurting anything. Clutch doesnt need to come all the way back,, to find out how far it really has to go, put A finger on it just rolling along, not accelerating, and just gently squeeze,, it slips with almost no clutch travel,, just a bit more and its disengaged plenty for a change,
Upshifting can be done with more gusto and not risk bending the shifter rod, because its pulling on it. Downshifting and not having luck, particularly when youre stopped, if ya start gettin frisky with it, thats when they bend,,
SO,, if youve had problems at a stop gettin it to downshift and banged on the shifter, you might wanna check that rod,, because a bent rod can make shifting iffy,,
Sittin in neutral with the clutch in is setting it up to screw up.
Gotta bounce the plates offa each other and spin the transmission guts up, then it'll fall in,,

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:18:11

Icey, to expand on what Badwolf has advised, I thought I would add some pictures.

The linkage/lever on the shift shaft only gets installed in one position. My 2016 LS has a mark. The slot in the lever has to line up with the mark. See how the punch mark on the shaft lines up with the slot in the lever.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:20:14

When the lever is correctly aligned with the mark on the shaft, there should be ample clearance between the bottom of the alternator cover and the shift linkage rod.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:21:38

When the linkage is right, the rod will get closer to the alternator cover when you upshift, but it will not hit the cover.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:22:47

If you install the lever on the shift shaft with marks misaligned like this.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:24:27

When you try to upshift the linkage rod runs into the bottom of the alternator cover. As you can see from this photo, it even bends.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:26:00

With the lever installed out of alignment with the mark on the shift shaft, the foot lever also can hit the footpeg mount on the frame when you upshift.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/23/20 at 18:32:52

I don't know what year your bike is but if there is a punch mark on the end of your shift shaft start by making sure the lever is correctly aligned to the mark, then shorten or lengthen your shift rod using the turnbuckle assembly to achieve satisfactory foot lever position. Make sure the foot lever doesn't hit the frame when you upshift.

Regarding your clutch, make sure you don't have ruts worn into the basket slots. If there are ruts, it can cause difficulties with engagement and disengagement, even with new clutch plates.

These ruts are pretty shallow and probably wouldn't cause any problems, but over time they will get deeper and then the plates will start to gang up.

Hope this helps. Good luck. Mike

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Icey on 09/27/20 at 21:50:13

Thanks guys, I'll be trying out your suggestions next week (when the weather's a bit better). I'll let you know!

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Icey on 09/27/20 at 21:52:37

About the ruts in the gasket, will you need a new gasket, or can you file it away?

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by SpamyToo on 09/28/20 at 03:16:06

Basket. The notches on the clutch basket can be filed off, but they will come back over time.

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Serowbot on 09/28/20 at 08:38:13

15131C60626561510 wrote:

I never saw that punch mark before..
Thanks for the post DBMike. Good info...
Now I'll have to go check mine... ;D

Title: Re: Neutral between 1-2 and 4-5
Post by Fast 650 on 09/28/20 at 10:46:19

How do you shift normally? If you are squeezing the clutch lever then trying to shift, on many bikes that will give you a false neutral between gears. The bigger and heavier the gears are the greater the tendency for that to happen.

If you start applying pressure to the shifter like you are going to shift just before you squeeze the clutch lever then it should shift cleanly without the false neutral.