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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head cover
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Message started by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:52:16

Title: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head cover
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:52:16

How much sealant is too much and what should one do if there was too much applied?

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:52:34

pic 2

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:52:49

pic 3

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:53:03

pic 4

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 11:57:50

The instruction said to apply it, tighten the part with fingers, wait for an hour and the torque to spec. When I torqued all the bolts, the excess was pushed out between the cylinder head and the valve plate. I let it cure for two days before I turned the the crank shaft to control that the valves and everything worked OK so there is no silicone sealant smeared inside the engine before it cured but perhaps some of this may come loose when running the engine. Will if just end up inside the oil filter or do I have to remove the valve head and redo the whole thing?

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by verslagen1 on 07/20/20 at 13:51:50

Well, we know you have enough, but is it too much?
There's a figure 8 o-ring (you did put it in?) that keeps the goo out and the oil in.
If the goo get past the o-ring it can reduce/stop the flow of oil to the head.
and there's no place to check pressure other than looking at the bath tub to see if it's full of oil.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/20/20 at 16:22:24

Yeaaah,, RTV,, Really not the best product for the job..
Yamabond, or the like,, it Never acually cures,, Im so sorry I failed to mention that..

How much we See says
Yeah, you did enough,,
As mentioned
Did you use too much,,?
Who can know?
Unless you remember how you applied it up around the Figure 8 Oring,,

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/20/20 at 17:38:32

Kamelrytarn, thats waaaaay too much sealant. I suggest you take it apart and clean all of that sealant out of there. It needs to be reassembled with the proper amount of sealant.

There are chamfers along the edge of the cam bearings that feed oil to the cam lobes and rocker pads. If those chamfers are even partially obstructed with sealant, you run the risk of starving the rockers, cam lobes, and valves of lubricant.

The left hand bearing chamfer feeds oil into the cavity adjacent to the bearing. From that cavity, oil is forced through the hollow camshaft and out through the holes in the cam lobes. If your sealant obstructs that chamfer, no oil will get to the cam.

This is the chamfer on the left hand cam bearing.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/20/20 at 17:55:15

A similar chamfer on the right hand cam bearing feeds oil into the reservoir directly below the cam lobes. The chamfer keeps the reservoir filled. As the cam rotates, the lobes dip into the reservoir and pick up oil.

The chamfer on the right hand bearing is circled in yellow. The right hand bearing and reservoir are circled in red. You don't need any sealant at all in the area circled in red.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/20/20 at 18:06:33

I use a sealant applicator made with a small ball bearing. It's actually a skateboard bearing. You use the applicator like a paint roller. Put sealant on a piece of glass and roll the bearing through the sealant. Then roll the bearing on a clean part of the glass to achieve a thin layer on the bearing. Then apply sealant to your sealing surface as if you were applying paint with a paint roller.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/20/20 at 18:08:19

This is a picture of a copper base gasket that I just applied grey sealant on. You can see how thin the layer of sealant is.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 07/20/20 at 18:09:32

This shows how much sealant squeezed out after I assembled the joint.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/20 at 21:35:36

It was a good thing I checked with you before I put everything together. I tried to take a picture after I applied my sealant but I didn't hold the camera still enough. I tried to apply as thin of a line as possible but it wasn't thin enough.

Also I realized after putting the valve head on that, just as you stated Mike, one should not apply sealant on the area surrounding the cam shaft so I removed some of it in that area.

If the figure-8 O-ring mentioned is the one that will go in the left upper corner then I did put that in and tried to make sure that the sealant was only on the outside of that O-ring.

One other question: I know that engine oils with Moly should NOT be used in the engine, but the Clymer manual suggest one should apply molbybdenum disulfide grease on the cam shaft. Wouldn't that eventually find its way down to the clutch?

I am a big fan of MoS2 grease but I did not put any on the cam shaft. Should I apply some when I redo the sealing?

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Ruttly on 07/20/20 at 23:07:46

3M 3bond it ain’t cheap but it’s the right stuff and it’s grey , the only other thing I would use is gasket eliminator (looks like grape jelly) and is even more expensive But it won’t leak shrink or crack

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/21/20 at 12:34:44

It actually didn't look too bad

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/21/20 at 12:35:52

And the O-ring had stopped any silicone from leaking inwards

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Dave on 07/21/20 at 13:12:36

That orange crap is the most awful looking product you could use for this job. It "screams" I have been inside this engine and put it back together using the most obnoxious product I could find.

And as DragBikeMike stated in post #8.....you put sealer on the sides of the little oil reservoir along the cam....it should not be there. Look at the head cover, and if there is not a matching surface on the top for the sealer to squeeze between - don't put sealer there.

For silver colored engines it look far more professional if you use a gray sealer......like Yamabond. For black engines use a black sealer like Suzukibond - both of which are actually made for sealing motorcycle engines.

https://www.amazon.com/Yamalube-Yamabond-4-3-oz/dp/B00545V1ZE

https://www.partsfish.com/product/20518/suzuki-bond-1207b-part-99104-31140

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by norm92de on 07/21/20 at 13:30:06

I have a question. Does everybody put sealer around the plug a the end of the camshaft? I would be inclined to leave it dry. :-/

By the way, in the distant past I used Yamabond with great success. Love that stuff.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Dave on 07/21/20 at 13:31:23

43425F40141F49482D0 wrote:

I have a question. Does everybody put sealer around the plug a the end of the camshaft? I would be inclined to leave it dry. :-/

I put a very small amount - just a tiny thin smear.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Ruttly on 07/21/20 at 13:35:09

If the plug is new I’ll install it dry , if it’s used it gets a small amount 3bond

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by norm92de on 07/21/20 at 13:37:30

Thanks, Gentlemen.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Ruttly on 07/21/20 at 14:34:00

3bond is same as Yamabond ! What I’ve been using for the last 45 years with great success. I really like it and it’s grey , doesn’t look like you used anything in the tool box. Not pickin on anyone , I’m just used to doin it that way for years. I’m totally in my element when I’m building Thumpers , big or small. I find it very rewarding riding what I build !

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 07/21/20 at 21:27:42

5C676A7D6C607B7D666E637C0F0 wrote:

Is Yamabond a discontinued product? The amazon-page says: "Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock" and I am not sure it is possible to get it in Sweden.

I use what I can source here so red silicone motor gasket is in my opinion better than none at all.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Ruttly on 07/21/20 at 22:25:24

3M is company name , 3 Bond is the product name. Amazon or Ebay
Think it comes in black too
Another good silicone is ultra grey & ultra black

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 08/01/20 at 11:54:17

Today I fiddled around with a pneumatic dispenser I bought of ebay. I wanted to see if it was usable to dispense gasket silicone and it actually was. I had great fun and learned something in the process :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HDekj9Z4og

I use an arduino to controll a pneumatic valve that pushes the gasket silicone out of the syringe. The first test I just let the arduino to open and close with a set time, but once I got that to work I used a couple of pieces of copper tape so I could manually activate the dispensing system with the tip of my finger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0F9M3eWXeI

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by DragBikeMike on 08/02/20 at 12:38:59

That is about the coolest thing I ever did see. I had to google "arduino" to figure out what that is. This contraption is way above my pay grade. You're a genius. Looks like you have total control over the sealant application.

Dave uses a syringe. I bet he will love this thing.

Really nice job. Thanks for sharing. The YouTube vids are killer good. :)

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by norm92de on 08/02/20 at 14:43:34

That sure does look like a marvelous way to apply sealant.

I'd be willing to bet it would be perfect for our head cover. No seeping out and perfectly distributed

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 08/03/20 at 00:15:37

Thank you for your kind words :)

It doesn't have to be as fancy as mine with a microcontroller. Basically all you need is 12V pneumatic valve, some kind of switch and a pneumatic glue dispenser

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5CC-Syringe-SMT-SMD-PCB-Solder-Paste-Adhesive-Glue-Liquid-Dispenser-EFD-Loctite/221376755902

I didn't want to wait two months so I bought mine from the UK but there must be US sellers as well. 1 bar of air pressure and a 18 gauge tip seem to work well for my red stuff but you may want to try different sizes of tips.

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by Dave on 08/03/20 at 04:21:10

Yep - Cool!

I use plastic syringes with a plunger I have to squeeze manually.

I put down a bead just a bit smaller than a pencil lead. You want enough sealer so that a tiny bit squeezes out both sides and provides even coverage across the mating surface. The sealer that oozes out doesn't do any actual sealing - it is more of a telltale that you have used an adequate amount of sealant.

I found that the sealant doesn't stick to the smooth plastic of the syringe - so after about a week you pull on the plunger and the PVC pops right out of the syringe!

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by kamelryttarn on 08/05/20 at 06:08:06

Put the valve head back today after applying new gasket silicone. The syringe dispenser worked as I expected and now I just hope I haven't obstructed any intended oil flow anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P4FqHVWJM

Title: Re: Amount of silicone sealant in the valve head c
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/20 at 08:36:04

I'll be going to the feed store and getting a biggo syringe with a needle I would run from next time I'm in an engine..
I've learned stuff here, thanks all..