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Message started by V-tec on 05/19/20 at 22:05:38

Title: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/19/20 at 22:05:38

Hey guys,

This is my first motorcycle in my life so I’m learning quite a bit. I’m from Wasaga Beach ON Canada. Bought a 2001 Savage LS650 not too long ago.
There is a shut off valve on the fuel line between the petcock and the carb, I’m guessing someone put it on there because of underlying issues? See picture. When riding the bike it seems to be starving, I’d give it gas and it seems like it just doesn’t want to go. And if I forget to turn that valve off the bike foods and it’s hard to start (if I take the air filter out I can smell gas on it) also, bike backfires seems like when changing gears?? There is an aftermarket exhaust on it.
I’m a pretty handy guy just don’t really know where to start.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by ohiomoto on 05/19/20 at 22:17:37

You have a faulty petcock and they put that valve in there as a stopgap.

You should get a new petcock and hose.  You can put a new stock petcock on there but it will eventually fail.  That's why most of us switch to a Yamaha Raptor petcock.  It's not vacuum operated and it won't fail, but you do have to plug the vacuum line from the carb.

Don't buy your petcock from eBay or Amazon.  Too many knock offs.  You want to get OEM hose too.  I would go to Partzilla.com or a similar site and get all OEM stuff.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5LP-24500-01-00?ref=d1ce01e31da04198c74126d17feee3a36eb4b7bb

https://www.partzilla.com/product/suzuki/44421-12FR0?ref=1faf3969b954e8f5c423db8e3ebc53f13e42a469

Lastly, while that petcock is dumping fuel into your carb, it may also be overflowing into your airbox and may have filled your crankcase with fuel.  Check your oil and change it if needed.  You don't want to toast a set of rings or seize a piston.  

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by jcstokes on 05/19/20 at 23:51:18

You may wish to drain the "puke" tube as well, the techies here will tellyou about it. Get the techies to tell you the correct Yamaha Raptor part number as well.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Tocsik on 05/20/20 at 06:13:00

Thought this was going to be a post about the cyclone hitting India  :-/.
Then I remembered I was in RSD and not The Café.

Great advice here so far, and you may also want to clean the carb while you're taking care of everything.  

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/20/20 at 06:13:21

I will call the Yamaha dealer this morning for the petcock. There is not many sites in Canada that have this stuff and shipping from the US can be crazy expensive sometimes (especially with the high exchange rate right now)

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by ohiomoto on 05/20/20 at 08:12:48

I wouldn't open the carb just yet.  Tackle one thing at a time. Assume the carb is good for now.  Replace the petcock and fuel line first.  Don't forget to plug the vacuum line going to the carb.  See if it fixes the problem.

If it still floods, you might have a sticky float valve.  If so, tap the carb a few times with a screwdriver handle and see if that gets it moving again.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/20 at 08:41:19

Definitely,, do the least challenging thing first. See what happens

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/20 at 08:43:00

No valves, no inline filters, between Petcock and carburetor
Get new hose.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/20/20 at 09:42:01

alright so I ordered the following

Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0
Yamaha FUEL thingy ASSY 1 Part# 5LP-24500-01-00

I'll start with that and see how it runs....

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by verslagen1 on 05/20/20 at 09:49:42


36342523400 wrote:
Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0

6.5 ? you sure that's the right hose?

I think it should be 8mm or 5/16"

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/20/20 at 09:56:54

as per the OEM diagram it looks to be
Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/20/20 at 09:57:13

Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by norm92de on 05/20/20 at 12:18:33

I put a genuine Yamaha petcock on my brand new bike. I have had vacuum petcocks in the past and don't trust them.

I bet Suzuki wouldn't have liked my mod one bit what with the warranty and all. It has been trouble free for 10000 miles so far. :)

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by IslandRoad on 05/20/20 at 16:12:29


57554442210 wrote:
as per the OEM diagram it looks to be
Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0




I measured the hose a while back when I was replacing mine. If I remember correctly it was 7mm (+ -). My options in buying generic hose were 6mm or 8mm.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by ohiomoto on 05/20/20 at 22:24:14


32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
[quote author=36342523400 link=1589951138/0#8 date=1589992921]

Suzuki HOSE,6.5X11.5X6 Part # 44421-12FR0

6.5 ? you sure that's the right hose?

I think it should be 8mm or 5/16"[/quote]----------------

That's the OEM hose for the lS650.  They send you about a foot.  Not cheap, but it's enough to do a couple of bikes and it's a bit nicer than the crap they sell at NAPA.   :)

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 05/25/20 at 06:13:21

Still waiting for the parts to come in...but was wondering
Will it be an issue if I forget the close the new raptor petcock when I’m done riding? Or I can I always keep it in the ON position.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/20 at 07:06:54

That's why the vacuum Petcock was built, so people didn't need to futz with on and off,
Just end of day, turn it off.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by norm92de on 05/25/20 at 08:05:29

The number one reason for changing to the raptor petcock is so that you CAN turn it off. Whatever you do turn it off after riding. I turn mine off a short distance from home and let it run dry. It takes the pressure off the needle valve and reduces the opportunity for fuel to get into the oil.

I'm so smart I can't stand myself. ;D

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/20 at 08:09:09

Im smarter than you..
Im so smart that not ONly can I not stand me,, nobody else can either,, so there..

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Dave on 05/25/20 at 09:46:53


4A4B56491D164041240 wrote:
The number one reason for changing to the raptor petcock is so that you CAN turn it off. Whatever you do turn it off after riding. I turn mine off a short distance from home and let it run dry. It takes the pressure off the needle valve and reduces the opportunity for fuel to get into the oil.
;D


Same obsessed behavior as me.....I turn the petcock off at the STOP sign down the street, and as I reach my downhill driveway the bike runs out of fuel.   That way if I don't ride for a while - there is very little fuel in the carb to go bad and start plugging up jets and corroding parts.

I don't turn the fuel off during the day while I am riding - but always at the end of the ride as I put the bike away for the day.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 09:01:40

So I installed the new Raptor petcock and replace the fuel line with an OEM hose. I also changed the oil and oil filter. There was a lot of gas in the oil so I’m glad that I replaced it.

Unfortunately the bike is still starving :(
When I’m riding with a constant throttle the bike seems to be hesitating. Haven’t checked the air filter yet to see if there is any gas in it.

I guess I should be looking at the carb at this point??

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/01/20 at 09:37:38


44465751320 wrote:
When I’m riding with a constant throttle the bike seems to be hesitating. Haven’t checked the air filter yet to see if there is any gas in it.

I guess I should be looking at the carb at this point??


There are several potential reasons for this behavior;

1) You have a clogged jet. A good cleaning of the carb might solve the problem, however jets usually require a good soaking in carb cleaner followed by a blast of 120psi air.

2) The float height is out of adjustment. When the float is too high the float bowl doesn't fully fill.

3) The jetting is just wrong. The bikes come from the factory jetted too lean. If you ad an aftermarket exhaust or air filter, this usually requires that the jetting and needle height be updated.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 09:52:04

I will take the carb off this week to clean it. And check the float level.
The bike did come with an aftermarket exhaust on it already (see pic) and also I replace the air filter because of all the gas in it with a K&N SU-6595 filter (see pic).
So that does mean that having the aftermarket exhaust and air filter the jets should be replaced?? Or should I take the carb apart, clean it, put it back on and see how it runs first?

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 09:52:39

Air filter

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by verslagen1 on 06/01/20 at 09:53:50

1st bike... just got it.
carb floods... typically because of worn out float valve.
leaky valves can be helped by a good petcock, but may not solve the issue.

starving... jetting or clogged jets, may require a good cleaning.  If it's been sitting for awhile, ports and passages maybe clogged.

constant throttle isn't hesitation.  If you feel variation in speed at constant throttle or surging, that can adjustment.

I would advise a carb cleaning to know where you're at and then follow one of the carb tuning guides in the tech section.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/01/20 at 10:09:41

Tell us what jets are installed in the carb. Also, take a photo of how the needle is installed in the slide. That will tell us if there has been any modification to that. It will also tell us if you need to make an adjustment/mod to the needle.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/01/20 at 10:46:42

Make sure ya get the jets broke loose so if ya decide to change them later you can do it on the bike.
Get a can of B12 Chemtool. Use the red straw to direct the spray into all the tiny passage and if is sprays IN,, its Sposed to come Out, somewhere..
AND,, You Better wear face and Eyeball protection. I dont like the stuff on my skin,, it burns, especialy like under a ring or watch band,, I cant imagine the four alarm fir it would be in an eyeball.. Good ventilation is important too.
Some tiny stiff wire can be helpful, clearing a jet.
Probably, seeing that someone went to the trouble of swapping the exhaust and buying that high dollar filter,, Probably they at least took a swing at jetting.. Did they nail it? Who knows,, ? But, yeah, clean it up and see..
Theres a brass washer under the main jet. Its Not a spare part,, Its gotta be there..
If iy try to remove the tiny screws that have a plate pinching the diaphragm Up IN there,, Those are JIS screws, not phillips, and which side goes up versus down is important on that little plate,, Marke it with a sharpee before ya even touch it and pay attention when it comes out, which way is the dimple facing?
I dont remember exactly where that is, or how inportant it is to have it out,, I Do remember it was not easy.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 14:51:43

Here’s some pics

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 14:52:06

And another

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 14:55:22

Before I purchase the bike I ordered a carb rebuild kit.
This is it.
Maybe I could use some parts from that?

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 14:59:47

Another pic

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 15:48:06

The main jet is a 145 the pilot jet is a 52.5

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/01/20 at 16:18:43

That’s a clean looking carb - is that how it looked when you opened it? Your needle is OEM. You can improve throttle response by replacing that white spacer with a #40 washer. This is well documented in the performance faq. The pilot jet (52.5) is a good size. You might find better performance with a 148 or 150 main, you won’t know until you try.

If you want, for now just swap out the white spacer with the #40 washer. I think you’ll find that the bike runs a lot better.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by ohiomoto on 06/01/20 at 18:10:21

If it's starving you need to make sure the diaphragm on the slide is seated or you may need to replace the slide.  This is critical before looking into jetting.

The bike should run reasonable well with stock jetting. Maybe not perfect depending on the mods the PO has done, but decent enough that you are talking purely performance jetting.  If you are talking "this thing hardly goes" then you have other problems that need to be resolved before getting in too deep with jetting.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/01/20 at 18:58:32

That’s how the carb looked when I opened it. Maybe it was cleaned just recently before I bought it?

I’ll sand down the original washer a bit and clean the diaphragm with soap and water.

Put it all back in and see how it runs. I guess I’ll have to adjust the idle mix screw once everything is back on.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/01/20 at 19:16:15

As Ohio said, check the diaphragm for cracks and tears. Any damage and it needs to be replaced.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by verslagen1 on 06/01/20 at 19:31:40


26243533500 wrote:
Before I purchase the bike I ordered a carb rebuild kit.
This is it.
Maybe I could use some parts from that?

extra parts is always good to have.
as far as the jets go, don't trust them as you don't know what year or from where they were intended for.
yes, eu and usa have different metering.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by V-tec on 06/02/20 at 08:35:09

Does my float seem pretty high? See pic

This is from another thread:

Float level is 1.06 to 1.114" for all models.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/02/20 at 09:28:00

It's out of spec. Bend the tab to get it closer to an inch and you should be good to go.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by DragBikeMike on 06/02/20 at 12:35:26

Your main jet and pilot jet sizes agree with the as delivered specification.

Your picture of the float level measurement shows that you are measuring from the gasket to the bottom of the float.  That gasket should not be in there for the float level measurement.  Remove the gasket, then do the measurement again.

The float level spec you provided does not agree with the factory specification.  The factory spec is 1.100" to 1.140".

I suggest you follow Gary's advice and use #4 washers rather than sand down the white plastic washer/spacer.  That way, if you are unhappy with the results you still have a good white plastic spacer to reinstall.  With the #4 washers, you can add or subtract to set the needle exactly where you want it.  So you have the latitude to try one washer, two washers, three washers, or the white plastic spacer/washer.  

The stock plastic washer is .113" thick, each #4 washer is about .030" thick (depending on manufacturer).  So one single #4 washer will yield the richest mid-range.  Two washers will lean out the mid-range a bit, three washers will lean it out a bit more, and the stock plastic washer will set it to the factory (waaay too lean) setting.

Thanks for the pics.  Very helpful.  Good luck.

Title: Re: Starving and Flooding
Post by batman on 06/02/20 at 19:58:53

 You should hold the carb in you hand sideways with the float hanging down below the valve so it just touches, the float level is from the flange to the top of the float, But doesn't include the gasket.

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