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Message started by 1slug on 03/18/20 at 19:35:36

Title: head retorque
Post by 1slug on 03/18/20 at 19:35:36

my buddy just tried to remove his head cover to re-torque the nuts on his 2015 with 4000 on it and he cant get it off.because there is not enuf room.frame to motor .do we have to remove the motor to re-torque the cyl nuts. anyone having this problem.dont want to go b\deep .into my bike and have same problem.because that would really.will enuf said on that. thanks

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by SpamyToo on 03/18/20 at 20:01:11

Did you do engine work? Ive heard of torque the bolts then checking them after engine heat up. But re-torquing for no reason? Its not usually like an add grease or change oil type of thing.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by Yoshi on 03/18/20 at 20:33:31

I believe torquing the head bolts is like maintenance just like checking the valve lash.
You can get the valve cover off with the motor still in frame but it's tight.
Most bikes with head plug leaks are due to the mechanic not sealing the 1 head plug cover correctly, make sure to seal yours correctly

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by verslagen1 on 03/18/20 at 22:00:49

466574786C417A7A150 wrote:

Did you do engine work? Ive heard of torque the bolts then checking them after engine heat up. But re-torquing for no reason? Its not usually like an add grease or change oil type of thing.

It's not for no reason, they stretch.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by batman on 03/18/20 at 22:10:35

There really is no need to ,haven't touched mine in 24 years , yes the Book says to but it's there so you'll take it to the dealership , they might check your compression and if it's with in spec won't do it either ,but probably charge you for it. those bolts are only torqued to 21-24 lbs treat it as one of those things that" if it's not broke don't fix it" .
sooner or later you'll have the headplug leak ,and oil will run across the front fins right on level with the head and cylinder newbies mistake this is a head gasket leak,it's not, but you will have to replace the plug and put sealent around it ,something the factory never has done
if your buddy can't get the cap off is it because the long center bolt doesn't have enough room to come out?. just remove the cap with the bolt in it, and you'll have to insert it in the cap again as you reinstall it. Some frames welded at the factory come out larger or smaller , if he can't get the cap off , he can pull thr lower motor casing bolts ( the ones that hold the front pegs ) that will allow the motor to swing down between the lower frame rails giving him the extra room he needs.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by SpamyToo on 03/18/20 at 22:15:01

Isnt that what the torque is, a measured amount of bolt tightening that equates to a bolt stretching.

Maybe Ive just never had a bike that long (<40k mi), but I only torque head bolts a couple of times, once installed and then check after the engine has heated up a few cycles. If I do engine work I replace the bolts with new ones and start over again.

I dont think they check engine bolt torque for tune ups on cars/trucks at any point, do they?

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by batman on 03/18/20 at 23:03:26

I think if you only go around twice and the torque is in spec , that's the best you're going to do without stretching the bolts ,replacement might be overkill, unless the bolts bolt bottom out inside the cap nut and you can't reach the targeted torque their probably OK to reuse. I'd just be sure to replace the copper sealing washers you use under the nuts,if their not beat you could anneal them and use them over again as well

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by DragBikeMike on 03/19/20 at 03:05:06

The all inclusive Clymer manual actually has a statement that indicates some LS650s require engine removal to get the head cover off. It's one of those sort of statements that implies that the condition is rare but sometimes you encounter one where the tolerances stack up against you.

The cat's outa the bag now. The head cover joint has been disturbed and it must come off to clean and re-seal. Batman's suggestion about pulling some mount bolts to allow the engine to drop a bit sounds good to me. You might wanna drop the exhaust system first so it doesn't hang up the engine.

Regarding the studs, this old post may be informative. I personally would not invade my head cover just to reef on the head nuts unless there was good reason (like a leak). You will see from the old post that what you apply to the threads and washers makes a huge difference in stress. If you get into retorquing the nuts, make sure the threads and washers are lubricated with clean oil. If you decide to use a sealant on the washers, don't use silicone sealant. You will see why when you review the old post.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1576269113/12#12

Good luck.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by Dave on 03/19/20 at 04:32:11

You can't just "re-torque" the head by putting a torque wrench on and pulling on the handle. The nuts corrode a bit and take a "set", and it takes a lot of muscle to get them to break loose.

To properly torque the nuts to need to remove them and clean up the threads, and apply new anti-sieze or sealer to the threads and nuts. Doing so is also a place for a potential new oil leak. Drag Bike Mike did a thread on the proper way to get the nuts sealed.

I really would just leave the nuts alone and not bother trying to retorque them.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by srinath on 03/19/20 at 05:07:05

The head cover comes off if you leave that long bolt that cant lift out in it and lift the head cover with that bolt still attached. Once you have the head cover moved enough to the left, the long bolt that wont come out will come out and you can take the cover off quite easily.

Alternatively You could cut off that bolt and install a slightly longer bolt but with 2 jam nuts on top. That way you can tighten it to spec, and when you need to take that bolt out next time undo the lower jam nut which will get it out of the cyl. Then looses the jam nuts against each other and remove them, and that way it will come out and the head cover comes out easier.

Also - the plug above the exhaust stud is defective both the old hollow version and the new solid version are. They do not seal up. I installed the old seal with a hand made solid aluminum insert and it works a lot lot better, but you could try a versiplug. A plug for vers here - well deserved.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/19/20 at 10:54:43

I too am in the camp of if there's no compression leak, leave the head bolts alone. And if there is a compression leak, it's probably not because of loose head bolts, it's usually a blown gasket.

What is it that your buddy is trying to correct 1Sulg? If compression seems to be low, a leak-down test is in order, not tightening bolts. You're more likely to snap a torqued head bolt than to move it to a tighter position.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by srinath on 03/19/20 at 12:28:55

Removing the head cover is important - to install the versiplug LOL.
While you're in there - Just Torquemada … you cant Torquemata anything y'know.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/19/20 at 19:58:23

When stuffs working
And you decide to fix it
The best you can hope for is
Stuff still works..
I bought one new
Sold it with twenty thousand miles on it
Never touched head bolts

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by norm92de on 03/19/20 at 21:37:32

My bike has 10K on it. I have never removed the head cover and I have no intention of doing so unless it is necessary for an oil leak etc.

The dealer has not seen it since I picked it up and never will. :)

Title: Re: head retorque
Post by 1slug on 03/20/20 at 16:00:06

thanks all .