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Message started by Steddy58 on 12/21/19 at 13:00:37

Title: belt drive woes
Post by Steddy58 on 12/21/19 at 13:00:37

Hello all, I am getting a bit annoyed by the belt drive on my bike and would like to go to the chain conversion, I was driving through town and the belt snapped (this is the third time in about 5 years and as you know they aren't anything like cheap), what would be the best chain to use, I am looking on the usual sites in the UK but no luck so far

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/21/19 at 13:29:33

Either you have had a statistically unlikely case of bad luck
Or you're doing something wrong.
How are you setting the tension?

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Steddy58 on 12/21/19 at 14:03:47

hey jog2, tension by turning belt through 90 degrees with finger and thumb and giving it about 3" of travel up and down midway-ish between front and rear sprocket on the bottom length of belt, cheers

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by badwolf on 12/21/19 at 17:24:48

If you are not running it too tight, are you riding a LOT of gravel roads? Stones can get lodged in the pulleys and damage the belt.
Our little engines are waaaaaayyyyyyy under powered to break those belts!
I have not touched the tension on mine in over 70,000 miles.
Harleys run three times the displacement and twice the weight on a smaller belt!
Is your alignment way out?
Can you post a couple of pics of the broken belts?
Did all three break the same way? Did they snap, or shred, or unravel, or did the teeth fail?
Something is just plain wrong to have that kind of trouble.
If you mean 90 degrees AND 3" slack, that would be too loose,( in my opinion ) and could be the problem.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Hiko on 12/22/19 at 00:30:53

As Badwolf said Something is just plain wrong These belts are very conservatively sized

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/22/19 at 01:54:02

No slack
Just loose enough to get the ninety degree twist without much effort.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by zevenenergie on 12/22/19 at 03:31:40

I'm also looking at a chain drive and found this:

https://www.xlmoto.nl/aandrijfpakket-jt-tandwiel-en-snell-powerlink-525-x-ring-ketting/suzuki-ls-650-f-savage-2002#?p

It is in the Netherlands, but sending should not be a problem.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/22/19 at 06:18:25

I did a chain conversation (x-ring) mostly because it fit the character of a cafe racer. Otherwise I would have been more than happy to run the OEM belt. There is no perfect solution as all drive systems have advantages and disadvantages. The main disadvantage of a chain drive is that it consumes horsepower; something the Savage doesn’t have an in abundance. If you want to keep the chain final drive as maintenance free as possible by going with an o or x ring chain, you further sacrifice valuable horsepower. Of couse, some of that lost power to the wheel can be recovered by selecting a final drive ratio that is close to your needs - the ability of selecting your own FDR is an example of where a chain is superior to a belt.

I’d try to determine the "why and how" of why you are going through belts.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by batman on 12/22/19 at 11:03:52

I believe Badwolf , has" hit the baseball out of the park " with his statement that the problem may in fact be that the belt tension is way to loose , 3 inches of slack in the bottom section of the belt is about 3 times what I'm running on my 25 year old belt with 40,000 miles.
If you have that much slack in the bottom of the belt what happens when you shift gears or close the throttle ? The drive pulley on the engine slows ,but the speed and weight of the bike keeps the rear wheel turning the same speed, and all that slack is suddenly transferred to the top side of the belt, snapping the bottom side taunt . When you again speed up the engine, that situation is reversed , snapping the top side . While the rubber dampers inside the hub try to absorb some of that shock ,I don't think they can begin to handle the amount of movement your adjustment has allowed , and the force of the snapping is breaking down the back of the belt until it fails. If you have one of the broken belts ,looking at the back of it , you should see fine white lines on the area each side of the tiny ridges, the same thing you would see if the belt broke from being to tight .

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Steddy58 on 12/28/19 at 00:44:04

I've just had it's yearly test done (government ordered and compulsory for bikes/cars over 3 years old) and the tester said the wheels were very slightly mis-aligned but within the limit allowed, Batman can you do the two finger 90 degree test if there is only 1 inch slack on the belt wouldn't that be dificult. As you say though if it's done 40k then it must be right. The roads around here are pretty rubbish at the moment they are being repaired with a lot of loose stone around which could be a problem. Update I have done the chain conversion with an O ring chain and I will try this for a bit if I snap this there's no hope for me :o. thanks for all the advice much appreciated as usual.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by batman on 12/28/19 at 15:08:37

If you can do the finger twist with only one inch of slack in the belt That is where it needed to be. Stones are more likely to put a hole in the belt ,not snap it, we've seen holes in the center of the belt from stones that still allowed the belt to be used.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Eegore on 12/30/19 at 15:27:56

I've been on a ton of gravel and stones will decay the belt with plenty of warning before snapping it. You would see pitting, holes and wear on the pulleys.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Hiko on 12/30/19 at 17:59:16

Not to mention the awful clattering and banging that I experienced

Not much damage though

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by DesertCat on 01/13/20 at 18:45:55

I like belt final drives. No need to lube. I think they're great.

I've had 5 Harleys (3 Softails and 2 Sportsters), a Buell, and I now have a BMW F800GT -- all with belt drives with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Now, I'm an older guy and I don't ride like I did when I was young and crazy. And I rarely have to adjust the belts.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by MMRanch on 01/13/20 at 20:36:36

Before I installed the 25 tooth front pulley , I would pull the front wheel off the ground on a regular basis . The Belt never complained a bit and I've got almost 50,000 miles on it now. That larger front pulley makes 5th gear seem like "Over-drive" :) but that was the end of the wheelies ::).

You understand that when the swing-arm is completely parallel with the ground --- that is when the belt is tightest . As the shocks come close to bottoming out the swing arm is above center and the belt starts getting looser again ...

Hay , have you got extra long shocks on your bike ?
If so : you should know to adjust your belt when the swing arm is level and the length between the front pulley and the back pulley is at its longest.
You might be surprised to know the same problem occurs with chain drive too . That is why long travel dirt bikes have spring loaded chain tension arms on the bottom side of the chains. ;)

Let us know how it works out for ya . :)
..................................

The only time I adjust my belt is when I've had things apart putting a new tire on , then its good till the tire goes bald (8-10K-miles) ! You'll never get that kind of performance with a chain ! ;D

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by Steddy58 on 01/14/20 at 09:44:02

Hi all, nice discussion and some very valid points, I have just purchased a 17 45 sprocket combo with an x-ring chain but also i've purchased a new belt (ouch!) so I'll run the chain for a while and see if I'm happy with it, but after all that expense I might have to save up for the gas :)

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by batman on 01/15/20 at 07:19:08

Stock final drive ratio is 2.956 17/45 drops it to 2.647 about 10.5% on your speedo reading ex; 60 kph on your speedo will actually have the bike going 66.3 kph ( ticket time?) the bike doing a true 60 the speedo will be reading 53.7 with your chain drive, but 10% should be easy to figure in you head ex; 60 -6=54 , 80 -8=72, 100-10=90 etc. , but you should see better mileage ,acceleration will be bit slower .

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by badwolf on 01/15/20 at 10:30:07

The stock speedo is lets say ''optimistic''. Check yours against a gps app on your phone. Most find a 140/90 15 tire comes close to correcting it.
I went with both Kaw pulleys ( 2.60 ratio, 25 - 65) and a 150/90 15 tire, went 100 miles on the stock speedo, and gps said 123!
With big changes in final drive ratios the stock speedo is basicly useless. I went with a Speedhut gps unit, $300, not cheap but accurate and gives me a tripmeter.

Title: Re: belt drive woes
Post by DesertCat on 01/16/20 at 15:30:50

Checking final drive belt tension . . .

I know I saw this exact video on this site somewhere, but I can't find it again.

Oh well, here it is on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ZsZzTwRyk