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Message started by raydawg on 11/16/19 at 08:11:26

Title: BURNED....again.
Post by raydawg on 11/16/19 at 08:11:26

Obama takes veiled shot at Warren and Sanders, warns 2020 Dems Americans don’t want to ‘tear down the system’

What Bernie....this makes it twice now?

In a odd way, you are the Trump of your party, even tho its not your party, maybe that is a clue, as to where you should mount your campaign?

Maybe those same swamp propagandists pundits are wrong about the results of a 3-way race.....

Maybe too, you should believe in yourself, and message more, and give the people a chance to vote for it, free from the entanglements, and dictates, of the democrat oligarchy?

Former President Barack Obama on Friday warned 2020 Democratic presidential hopefuls to pay attention to what voters actually think -- warning that most of them don’t want to “tear down the system.”

“The average American doesn't think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it's important for us not to lose sight of that,” Obama said.

“There are a lot of persuadable voters and there are a lot of Democrats out there who just want to see things make sense. They just don't want to see crazy stuff," he said. "They want to see things a little more fair, they want to see things a little more just. And how we approach that I think will be important.”

Funny how things in life morph, and change, constantly.....
Maybe this really is a important element to a democracy, when compared to other means of governing, where most seem to be ruled by a manner of entitlement.

I was so ready to vote for Bernie, last time, but he caved and forfeited his cause, to the very power structure he was running against....

Now, he is just too far out there, and destructive, for too many, to implement, without any real vision as to how this would disrupt, and change, the core of who we are, as a nation.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/19 at 08:29:08

This is what I’ve been saying. If it comes down to Trump’s good economy and even with all the baggage he brings against Warren, Bernie, etc and a drastic remake plan with very little chance of success....Trump wins.

They know that, hence the impeachment fiasco.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Serowbot on 11/16/19 at 08:36:09

Trump losing in Georgia to Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg and Harris, poll finds
https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/11/13/poll-trump-trails-democrats-georgia/4180158002/

Georgia is considered a red state...
There aren't many orange states... :-?

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by raydawg on 11/16/19 at 09:14:45

Yeah....we heard that before, and we even heard folk say they'd move, if Orange-man was elected....I guess folk change their minds....eh?

Now, if you wanna just do drive-bys, fine, or, you can engage and try and give this site value.....???

Here is why I voted for President Obama in his first term:

“There are a lot of persuadable voters and there are a lot of Democrats out there who just want to see things make sense. They just don't want to see crazy stuff," he said. "They want to see things a little more fair, they want to see things a little more just. And how we approach that I think will be important.”

But after he won, and folks in opposition wanted a voice and a seat at the table, he then said, dismissively, "Elections have consequences

House Republican Whip Eric Cantor gave President Obama a list of modest proposals for the bill. Obama said he would consider the GOP ideas, but told the assembled Republicans that "elections have consequences" and "I won."

Why not say...."Hey thanks for the input, let me take it under consideration....thanks"

Saw a post here recently about being that "change"....

Maybe its was just hyperbole and made in jest.....eh?

Ya wanna show us Bot?

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/19 at 09:20:30

4A5C4B564E5B564D390 wrote:

That's because it's still abstract. Once it comes down to one on one and it's trumps economy versus warrants risky gamble and putting everyone on Medicare, Trump will win that.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by pg on 11/16/19 at 09:27:08

4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:

Poling has very little merit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/moodys-trump-on-his-way-to-an-easy-2020-win-if-economy-holds-up.html

Best regards,

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Serowbot on 11/16/19 at 09:42:31

Some sort of public health option is popular with 70% of voters.
Medicare for all, is just one option, and it has different meaning to different candidates.
... but, the basic idea is popular.
People want action, not resistance...

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by raydawg on 11/16/19 at 09:58:57

2C3A2D30283D302B5F0 wrote:

Key here to the results is Some sort of HC.....

Of course, I am surprised its not 100%.

Now ask, "If we have a state run HC system, where everyone must partake in, no exceptions or private insurance. That everyone is taxed, and contributes, or faces legal consequences. That the HC system has the right to enact lifestyle choices and charge additional fees for such....
That the HC system applies and covers EVERYONE in the nation regardless of immigration or citizen status, etc....."

You think that might provide a different outcome?

Bot, the explanation of, "We have to pass it, to find out what's, in it...."

Is really sketchy at best, and if that's the case, how can you even possibly create a budget, or know how it really will work, or not?

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Serowbot on 11/16/19 at 10:06:57

Your Republican talking point is nice,.. but it doesn't change the fact that 70% of people want a public option.

The Repub's mantra of "We can't afford it", doesn't hold water.
we now have the highest healthcare costs in the world, and most countries do better with a third of the cost.
Truth is, we can't afford not to.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/19 at 10:31:06

6274637E66737E65110 wrote:

The hmo fiasco is what ruined our system.
Rewind, eliminate that parasitic burden.
Let people use the doctors they want.
Pre HMO I could take my Blue Cross card into any office.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by T And T Garage on 11/16/19 at 12:36:07

56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:

[quote author=6274637E66737E65110 link=1573920686/0#8 date=1573927617]Your Republican talking point is nice,.. but it doesn't change the fact that 70% of people want a public option.

The Repub's mantra of "We can't afford it", doesn't hold water.
we now have the highest healthcare costs in the world, and most countries do better with a third of the cost.
Truth is, we can't afford not to.

The hmo fiasco is what ruined our system.
Rewind, eliminate that parasitic burden.
Let people use the doctors they want.
Pre HMO I could take my Blue Cross card into any office.
[/quote]

Thank capitalism for HMOs.

What Bernie and Warren are proposing is direct opposition to that.

So... how about that?

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by thumperclone on 11/16/19 at 13:16:07

where is this great trump economy?
less job creation than Obama
wages stagnated, tax cut only benefited the rich
health costs, gas prices, prices period all rising
14+ trillion debt
can't wait for the new budget

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/19 at 14:24:59

726C63626F726974060 wrote:

[quote author=56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 link=1573920686/0#9 date=1573929066][quote author=6274637E66737E65110 link=1573920686/0#8 date=1573927617]Your Republican talking point is nice,.. but it doesn't change the fact that 70% of people want a public option.

The Repub's mantra of "We can't afford it", doesn't hold water.
we now have the highest healthcare costs in the world, and most countries do better with a third of the cost.
Truth is, we can't afford not to.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by T And T Garage on 11/16/19 at 15:23:36

352A2C2B3631003000382A266D5F0 wrote:

Things were working fine before.
Undo the screwup.
Move on.
How about that

So.... end capitalism?

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Serowbot on 11/16/19 at 15:32:43

455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:

The hmo fiasco is what ruined our system.
Rewind, eliminate that parasitic burden.
Let people use the doctors they want.
Pre HMO I could take my Blue Cross card into any office.

Your old Blue Cross,.... was Medicare
It was subsidized...
It was a public option...

Quote:

Medicare and Medicaid are enacted, and the government selects Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies to team up with and successfully administer the Medicare program. In 1964, more than 19 million individuals enroll under the new Medicare legislation. Today Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies are instrumental in providing services to over 52 million Medicaid and 42 million Medicare participants. Congress also enacted the Federal Employees Health Benefits Act, and The Blues responded with the creation of our Federal Employee Health Benefit Program. Today, this program covers more than 4.8 million federal employees, retirees and their families.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/19 at 19:45:33

Here, maybe this will help.

THE HMO SYSTEM IS A PARASITIC BURDEN THAT CREATED A WALL AGAINST OUR ABILITIES TO CHOOSE SERVICE PROVIDERS AND ADDED MEDICAL CODERS, ROOMS FULL OF THEM, WHOSE JOBS ADDED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN UNNECESSARY COSTS.
WE NEED TO END THAT.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Mavigogun on 11/17/19 at 03:26:08

Cool- Justin has provided a road map for garnering support from within that last 30% for universal healthcare. Don't call it "Medicare for All". Rather, "Blue Cross" for the Evangelicals and "Blue Shield" for the Hawks, and maybe we can eclipse the spector of Socialism with Jesus and perceived strength. "Obama Care" is to be reviled, but don' even think of touching my ACA. Also made clear is the futility of predicating agreement on any sort of acknowledgement of circumstance when identity stands between.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by Eegore on 11/17/19 at 06:40:46

"Things were working fine before.
Undo the screwup.
Move on.
How about that"

Things weren't working "fine" before. They might have been for you, at that time, with your specific health, at that time.

Again:

What part of reintroducing pre-existing coverage denial will provide better medical care? If you had asthma as a child your insurance can deny all coverage to asthma, and lung related issues - for life. No coverage for pneumonia - ever. All other insurance companies can deny you - for life.

What part of cost caps is beneficial to you as a consumer? 500,000 lifetime cap, once you reach that cost cap no more insurance, so hope that doesn't happen if you get cutoff by a car and end up in a hospital.

HMO modern systems need to be altered to better serve customers for sure, and also let them make money, but going back to 1970's healthcare isn't a good option.

Note: This post is an opinion in response to what I consider pertinent and valuable discussion material. While they are words on a screen I contribute in an attempt to engage in discussion instead of contributing by slinging insults at other members.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by T And T Garage on 11/17/19 at 15:48:50

382721263B3C0D3D0D35272B60520 wrote:

It was created with only profit in mind. Capitalism 101.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/19 at 23:05:02

Excellent
So you agree with me

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 09:18:03

554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:

Excellent
So you agree with me

Not sure who you're addressing, but I do agree that the current debacle of our healthcare system is directly related to the purely profit driven motivation of capitalism.

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/18/19 at 13:15:53

The HMO Bullshit needs ditched.

Good start

Title: Re: BURNED....again.
Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 13:42:46

We have a perverse form of capitalism that bears little resemblance to a free market.

Best regards,