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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Sidecar Rig /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1572992545 Message started by Dennisgb on 11/05/19 at 14:22:25 |
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Title: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/05/19 at 14:22:25 Hi, I’m new to the group. My story is quite long, so I’ll try to give the short version. I put together a hobby shop to build motorcycles. I had it for 5 years and had an unfortunate accident and it burned down. One of the bikes I lost in the fire was a Royal Enfield with a sidecar. The bike was destroyed but the sidecar was stored in my barn so it survived. I looked around for a thumper that I could mount the sidecar on. The main mounting requires a single down tube on the frame. This led me to the Suzuki Savage and S40. I know there are some that will say the Suzuki doesn’t have the power to run a hack, but it’s more powerful than the RE that was on there before. I’m interested in comments and experiences with the Suzuki Savage and S40 with a sidecar. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dave on 11/05/19 at 14:31:09 I don't think you are going to find anyone with S40 sidecar experience. One issue I wonder about, is the steering geometry of the Savage. In stock form there is a lot of rake in the forks, and the bike sort of "flops" into corner a bit more than just turning......I don't know how a sidecar would affect way the bike steers, corners or handles. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/05/19 at 14:43:22 That’s a good point. I know more rake on regular 3 wheel trike actually improves handling. I was hoping the rake would actually be a good thing. There is a steering damper on the sidecar rig so that might help. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/05/19 at 14:48:03 Here’s a picture of the original sidecar rig. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/05/19 at 14:49:44 Here’s a picture of the 2011 S40 that I bought. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ZSteele on 11/05/19 at 16:21:43 This is gonna be good, lookin forward to watching this project! |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by DieselBob on 11/05/19 at 20:36:23 - There are a few out there. Just not much detail as to the mounting. https://img.index.hu/imgfrm/7/4/5/2/BIG_0006687452.jpg http://www.wild.hu/pic/hir/1296/kepek/dscf9784.jpg http://www.wild.hu/pic/hir/1296/kepek/dscf9778.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuTXjslggU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an_bINlTc_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2kdsea2rI&list=UUe7nPsjBodo6AUnVKkv1tpQ&index=31 (and with leading link forks no less) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA-lJUuWR5Y&list=UUe7nPsjBodo6AUnVKkv1tpQ&index=30 |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 05:55:49 Nice! Handling and comfort aside (because I never did a sidecar, and comfort is subjective), I think you made a great choice. These bikes have a nice powerband and chug along nicely at reasonable speeds. You can lower always lower the forks up to ~2" which will reduce the rake a bit and I believe it will increase the trail at the same time. Options include reducing travel, top clamps that allow you to slide the forks up in the tubes or even having the tubes cut down. The latter two options will allow you to keep the original fork travel. You can also do mid-controls and even make the 650 look more like the RE if that's what you are into. That's what is so cool about these bikes. Lots of options. Personally, I built my bike to be more of a standard with the forks lowered 2" (cut down) and stock rear shocks and I think I handle great. Just like any other standard I've ridden over the years. No more floppy front end. :) http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20170727_071804829.jpg |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/06/19 at 08:09:11 063F3322333826393A560 wrote:
Yes I’ve seen some of those links. They sell mounting kits for the Suzuki, but from what I can tell they are similar to what I have. It should mount up fine. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/06/19 at 08:13:35 5057565052504B503F0 wrote:
I like the idea of turning the Suzuki into more of a classic style but not sure I want to spend a the time or money since I have several projects in the fire and the bike I bought is really clean. If the sidecar doesn’t work out I’m thinking the value may be more if left stock. Maybe if it works out and I like it, then I might consider it. It would be cool to have a solo seat tho. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Mavigogun on 11/06/19 at 08:15:26 3B3C3D3B393B203B540 wrote:
Can you quantify the original travel? |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Mavigogun on 11/06/19 at 08:21:35 2D2C2727203A2E2B490 wrote:
Dubious notion, me thinks. While (judging from local listings) dumping a bunch of money into a bobber build probably ain't recoverable, I doubt adapting a midset and lowering the front end will hurt value, at all. Raise it, more likely, if done well. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 08:27:34 IIRC stock travel is 5.5"??? A lot of us have used 2" spacers to lower the fork and that reduces the travel by the same amount. I ran that way for a couple of years and then had the forks shortened and removed the spacer. This allowed me to go back to the full stroke of the fork had when stock using the stock triple clamp. Others use aftermarket clamps that allow them to raise the forks in the clamps to lower the frontend while retaining full travel. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 08:32:35 My point isn't about the value, it's about the bike is a good platform to start the sidecar project. If it works out in stock form, great. If the fork rake proves to be more than desirable, throw some spacers in there and see if it's better. If it is, you have options to regain full travel. If you decide you want it to look different, it can be done. If it doesn't work out and you want a project, the options are unlimited. Or ride it in stock form, or sell it. Options. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 08:36:42 I will say this, I seem to run across enough people who find my bike interesting enough that I'm pretty sure I can easily sell it for more than the average stock unit. I also built it on a pretty tight budget and sold enough parts to cover the initial cost of the bike. But would someone pay enough to make me want to sell it? I doubt it and it really doesn't matter because I built it for me. I have a similar project in my garage that I plan to sell and I probably won't really profit from it either. :) |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 09:28:13 55545F5F58425653310 wrote:
----------------------------------------------------- This build is a Photobucket casualty, but if you can find pictures you would probably like it. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1380562345/0 |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/06/19 at 09:35:28 5156575153514A513E0 wrote:
Agree. It’s all relative. I’ve built and turned many bikes. Some I made money on, some not. In general the bikes I plan to turn need be of higher resale value, low mileage or Classic. I have a Norton 850 that is in process of restoration. This is a bike you can spend some money on because of value. I’m building it like I’m keeping it. This becomes a complicated discussion because value is sometimes a perception. The Suzuki I bought for a replacement of a bike I lost in the shop fire. I got a really good deal on it. My gut tells me it’s probably worth $1800-2500 stand alone...which doesn’t leave much room for upgrades. Bottom line for me is this is a hobby so I enjoy doing bikes. I turn bikes mostly to buy others or to finance other projects. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/06/19 at 09:43:14 Here’s a picture of the shop before the fire. I’m still trying to recover :'( |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 10:01:41 Nice. I like the eclectic style. Love the Norton in the same space as the HD and the GP racer. Cool. Sorry about the fire. Those were all lost??? :'( :'( :'( :'( My story is I don't really want projects. I use to race motocross up until 2007, even owned and operated a track until 2010. I got out of it and did the travel baseball deal with my boys for several years. One day my wife says she needs to get a Vespa to ride to work. We quickly determined that it was way too dangerous for here commute downtown, but it dawned on me that I could escape my car and ride mostly through a National Park on my way to work. Quickly scratched the scooter and started dreaming of my old man's T500 that he passed on to me (or maybe I stole it?) and my 71 Triumph TR6. But I just wanted to ride to work, not a labor of love, and then I stumbled upon this site and RYCA... So here I am with one bike put together, two more sitting in the garage, a half-finished Sprinter Van conversion and a whole bunch of bicycles to ride and ski season is just around the corner. Thank god I got out of racing and travel baseball. ::) ::) Anyway, a bunch of us really dig this kind of stuff. I can't wait to see how this project works out for you. Thanks for sharing. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/06/19 at 10:49:55 3730313735372C37580 wrote:
There were seven bikes in the shop when the fire happened. 3 were total losses. The other bikes were partially damaged and lots of smoke and water damage. The building was a total loss. I kept those 4 and will attempt to bring them back. The black and white bike was a custom build. It started life as a 1988 Honda Hurricane. I did all the work myself. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by batman on 11/06/19 at 17:27:11 Dennisgb, looking at the Savages with sidecars I did notice that the sidecar wheel was nearly as far rearward as the back tire of the bike , I don't believe I've seen that on other setups, it may have to do with the Savage's fork angle. You said before that a trike might benefit from more neck angle , but that's not the case for the Savage , there was a company in Fla. that converted a Savage and found the bike didn't want to turn , the front tire just plowed and the bike went straight through intersections even at reduced speeds. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 08:19:19 5350455C505F0509310 wrote:
That’s interesting Batman. On the plowing front wheel, was that a trike conversion? If so, it may be because the bike is so light. Sidecar wheel position is a critical factor for handling and stability. Having the wheel almost even with the rear wheel of the bike is bad. It needs to be 12” or more forward of the rear wheel. I’ll see how that comes out with the rig I have. I haven’t started putting it together because of space and still salvaging from the fire. I’ve done some measurements and it looks good to me. I may have to modify the lower mounts, but main frame mount looks like it will work. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Mavigogun on 11/07/19 at 08:39:29 What's with putting the side car on the exhaust side? In right-side-driving countries, is it all about putting the car away from traffic? |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by batman on 11/07/19 at 10:36:21 Yes that was a trike in Fla. ,the Savage isn't a good subject for that kind of use , the use of car tires and the weight of them and the axle/swing arm needed shifts the weight off the front tire of the bike and so it just wants to go straight. I think slowing down to 5-10 mph to go around a 90 degree corner on a trike would get very old , very fast. But many sidecars have been used on the Savage , but it may pay to get help on setup from a pro. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 10:38:21 202C3B242A222A38234D0 wrote:
I think that’s correct. Riding the bike inside might make it difficult to judge the sidecar position relative to oncoming moving traffic. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Mavigogun on 11/07/19 at 10:46:11 Might be a candidate for a left side high scrambler exhaust then... |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 11:41:43 5F5C49505C5309053D0 wrote:
I don’t feel uncomfortable doing this myself. I’ve done a lot of custom fabrication and the sidecar set up seems pretty easy. I also own a Honda Aero Motor Trike that I love. You honestly can’t take 90 degree turns very fast...it is really easy to feel what speed is right. The front end on my Trike is very stable, but the bike is much heavier than the S40. I could see where the S40 wouldn’t make a good Trike. For the side hack it’s very similar to the RE with the exception of the rake. We’ll see how it works out. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 11:50:35 222E39262820283A214F0 wrote:
I don’t mind the exhaust on the sidecar side. The other bike was set up that way. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by verslagen1 on 11/07/19 at 12:53:36 One complaint that I recall from the others that had sidecars is a swingarm failure. The swingarm is oval in cross section and while it is strong in the vertical, not as much for side loads. So it may benefit from reinforcement. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by batman on 11/07/19 at 14:32:10 Nice looking trike! the longer wheelbase, and heavier motor/tank ,and less fork angle , wider front rim and tire , makes for a much better candidate for a conversion. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 19:19:40 52415657484543414A15240 wrote:
Thanks, never heard that. Will have to check it out. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/07/19 at 19:23:29 6063766F636C363A020 wrote:
Thanks! I’ve had it for a long time. It’s really fun to ride when I’m lazy or want to head to the grocery. Going from 2 wheels to 3 or the other way around keeps me on my toes. Very different. The sidecar will be more like the Trike with a little added fun in turns. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by smokin_blue on 11/11/19 at 10:06:04 Dennis, back to your original question about side hacks on the forum, years ago circa 2008 time frame there was one member who ran a side car on his savage. I don't know for sure but I am pretty sure that section (history) of the forum was lost in some form of transition or cyber burp. from what I remember he loved his set up. we need to get together for a beer and discuss the details of your build. Smokin.. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/11/19 at 10:16:42 120C0E0A080F3E030D1404610 wrote:
Yes that would be great. I’ll probably want to pick your brain on a bunch of stuff. The bike is basically stock and has all the quirks including the head plug leak. I really think it will be a better sidecar candidate than the Royal Enfield. Not expecting a speed demon...just a fun run about. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by verslagen1 on 11/11/19 at 10:23:25 Phelonius, and max morley, look them up. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1166211403 |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/11/19 at 11:14:40 283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote:
That’s an interesting thread. Too bad Phelonius is an ex member. I |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/11/19 at 16:03:43 3A293E3F202D2B29227D4C0 wrote:
When I run searches I get nothing :'( |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by ohiomoto on 11/12/19 at 07:53:50 You have to go here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?action=search It's not the most intuitive search and it is limited to the last week by default. |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Dennisgb on 11/12/19 at 09:59:48 585F5E585A584358370 wrote:
Ah... I didn’t see the week window |
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Title: Re: Sidecar Rig Post by Mavigogun on 11/19/19 at 12:19:33 5E59585E5C5E455E310 wrote:
When more control is needed, I use Google Advanced Search, specifying the suzukisavage.com domain- https://www.google.com/advanced_search |
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