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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1572898221 Message started by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 12:10:21 |
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Title: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 12:10:21 Court Orders Trump Accounting Firm To Turn Over Tax Returns To New York Prosecutors A federal appeals court has ruled that President Donald Trump’s accounting firm Mazars must turn over his tax returns to New York prosecutors. Trump’s lawyers had argued that, as president, he was immune from criminal investigation [ch8213] a claim the three-judge appeals panel rejected. Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. is pursuing the returns as part of an investigation into the Trump Organization’s role in buying the silence of two women who say they had affairs with Trump. Adult film star Stormy Daniels received $130,000 from Trump’s longtime attorney and former fixer, Michael Cohen. Cohen, who is currently serving a three-year sentence for campaign finance charges and other crimes, testified that Trump ordered him to make the payment. Cohen also helped broker a deal between former Playboy model Karen McDougal and the Trump-friendly parent company of the National Enquirer, American Media Inc. In an earlier ruling in October, a federal judge dismissed Trump’s lawyers’ assertion of presidential immunity as an “extraordinary” claim. Judge Victor Marrero said he could not “endorse such a categorical and limitless assertion of presidential immunity.” On Monday, the appeals court said “presidential immunity does not bar the enforcement of a state grand jury subpoena directing a third party to produce non[ch8208]privileged material, even when the subject matter under investigation pertains to the President.” Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow said Monday his team intends to appeal to the Supreme Court. The district attorney’s criminal subpoena is separate from other Democratic efforts to obtain Trump’s tax returns. Trump refused to release his taxes both as a presidential candidate and as president, breaking decades of tradition. His returns would reveal information about his income, how much he pays in taxes and how much he gives to charity. Democrats in the House of Representatives sued for copies of the president’s returns in July after the Trump administration defied a subpoena and a formal request under a federal tax disclosure law. That case is pending in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia and could take months to resolve. Congressional Democrats also issued a subpoena for the president’s financial information to the accounting firm Mazars, though that subpoena did not specifically ask for tax records. Trump’s personal lawyers sued to block Mazars from complying with that subpoena. Courts have sided with Democrats and that case is also on appeal and could wind up at the Supreme Court. Gee, those trump stooges sure are trying hard to keep his taxes hidden. I wonder why that is? Oh! I know! He's a crook. He's taken money from Russian oligarchs. He runs his business like the mafia. He's a sh!tty businessman. Take your pick - they all apply. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/04/19 at 12:29:11 I wonder why that is? I think I know what's the most likely explanation. Easy to figure out if you don't have TDS. Take a few aspirins and then take a stab at what it is. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 12:48:18 7D4F48595E4F58674B58412A0 wrote:
trump is a crook - I answered that. He's afraid of turning over his taxes, plain and simple. If this had been Obama, or any other dem, the cons would be on fire. He is hiding something. Only 2 possible explanations. 1 - he's a crook 2 - he's a worse businessman than anyone thought Let's also not for get this: Donald Trump said he would release his tax returns. Then he said he’d do it after an audit. Now he says the public doesn’t care. Over the years, the president and members of his Administration have changed tactics several times on the question of whether he would follow a decades-old precedent and release his old tax returns. In a 2014 interview, Trump said he would release the returns, without any qualifications. “If I decide to run for office, I’ll produce my tax returns, absolutely,” he told “Ireland AM.” “And I would love to do that.” But once he was actually running, he added some caveats, first saying that he would not to have “everything all approved” by his accountants, then claiming — falsely — that he could not release them because he was under audit. “Obviously if I’m being audited, I’m not going to release a return,” he told CNN. Still, Trump pledged that he would release the tax returns before Election Day. tweet: In interview I told @AP that my taxes are under routine audit and I would release my tax returns when audit is complete, not after election! He didn’t. And not long after the election, some of his staffers put forward a new argument: He didn’t need to release them because the public had showed they did not care about the issue by electing him. “We litigated this all through the election,” said White House advisor Kellyanne Conway. “People didn’t care.” That’s not true. In fact, polls regularly show that a majority of Americans think he should release his tax returns, with support sometimes as high as 74%, depending on the wording. Recently, Trump shifted tactics again, falsely claiming that there is no law requiring that he release his tax returns to a congressional committee that has requested them. “No, there is no law,” he said. “As you know, I got elected last time with this same issue. And while I’m under audit, I won’t do it. If I’m not under audit, I would do it. I had no problem with it. But while I’m under audit, I would not give my taxes. There’s no law whatsoever.” http://time.com/5571077/donald-trump-tax-returns-arguments/ So, there you have it. trump is most definitely hiding something. To deny that is to be ignorant. No, there is no law that states he must release them, but there is indeed precedent. Precedent that he refuses to follow. It comes as no surprise that his followers don't care. They wallow in denial. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/04/19 at 13:30:50 trump is most definitely hiding something. To deny that is to be ignorant. I'm not denying he's hiding something. And I'm not ignorant. Only 2 possible explanations. No, there's another. 1 - he's a crook 2 - he's a worse businessman than anyone thought #3 ? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 13:39:11 516364757263744B67746D060 wrote:
No, there is no 3. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 14:00:30 Mark is hoping you'll come up with an excuse for him! Simply incredible! Either you have a compelling reason to believe other than what is obvious, or you don't, Mark. Trump has lied. Trump has obstructed. Trump is clearly afraid of the public knowing the nature of his business and practices. Mark, if you had anything credible, you would be waving it about- not playing 'guess what it might be'. Your game is silly- and disrespectful of those engaged here. Participate, or don't- but don't pretend. As you have said, "put up, or shut up". I prefer you to put up... if you can. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/04/19 at 14:19:50 140A050409140F12600 wrote:
No, there is no 3.[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/04/19 at 14:20:22 0F03140B050D05170C620 wrote:
Drive by. I wasn't talking to you. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 14:22:14 You're clearly your own audience, Mark. You don't have conversations, and retreat under scrutiny. Convictions require at least a little courage- and you demonstrate none. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 14:23:33 754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
No, there is no 3.[/quote] [/quote] No, you weren't. You had the thin skin reaction to say that you weren't ignorant. Instead of simply stating your opinion (what you think number 3 should be), you have to defend. Funny how that is always the case. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 14:25:44 7E606F6E637E65780A0 wrote:
He's a balloon- empty, save for hot air; with no substance to weigh him down, he's free to drift anywhere. Let's revisit that headline: "Court Orders Trump Accounting Firm To Turn Over Tax Returns To New York Prosecutors" |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/04/19 at 15:13:31 No, you weren't. You had the thin skin reaction to say that you weren't ignorant. Instead of simply stating your opinion (what you think number 3 should be), you have to defend. Funny how that is always the case. Dude, I'm just giving you the opportunity to try and expand your mind a little. Think, why wouldn't someone with Trump's business reach want his taxes and all that that entails, exposed? ....... |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 15:22:17 Really, Mark, you're concerned for his opportunities -that's how you're going to play this? Distract, redirect, troll, troll, troll. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/04/19 at 18:13:05 724047565140576844574E250 wrote:
There are only 2 reasons. He's a crook, or he's lying about his wealth. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 18:24:53 Mark knows he's gonna sound like a crackpot- why else such reticence to divulge this particular opinion when he... deposits ...so many with ease? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/11/19 at 14:14:41 4C525D5C514C574A380 wrote:
No, there is no 3.[/quote] A Tax Loss Carryforward (also called a Net Operating Loss NOL carryforward). Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/12/19 at 07:15:54 746365696676040 wrote:
No, there is no 3.[/quote] A Tax Loss Carryforward (also called a Net Operating Loss NOL carryforward). Best regards,[/quote] BFD.... that's no reason hide your taxes... He's either a crook or a failed businessman. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/19 at 10:09:48 You knew the name Donald Trump 20 or 30 years ago. His name is on buildings across the globe. When he was giving money to the Democrats or accepting NAACP awards, you no doubt thought well of him, glad to have him on your side. Billionaire? Don't know. Hundreds of millions? Sure. Calling Donald Trump a failed businessman is like calling you someone with a clear perspective of the world. The evidence doesn't support either one. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/12/19 at 10:20:57 7F4D4A5B5C4D5A65495A43280 wrote:
Well then, what's he got to hide? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/19 at 11:29:50 I know. What would an international businessman, whose despised by the media and entertainment culture, has galvanized the opposition party against him like no other President in history, who has the Democrats in Congress right now pi$$ing away hundreds of years of American jurisprudence history, who faces ridiculous fake news articles on a daily basis, want to keep away from the aforementioned scum? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/12/19 at 11:52:21 0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:
Well, if he's so goddarned great - then why the secrecy? Like I said - 2 reasons. 1 - Inept 2 - Corrupt |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/12/19 at 14:51:49 697778797469726F1D0 wrote:
No, there is no 3.[/quote] A Tax Loss Carryforward (also called a Net Operating Loss NOL carryforward). Best regards,[/quote] BFD.... that's no reason hide your taxes... He's either a crook or a failed businessman. [/quote] When you are making millions and have no tax burden because of a TLC, it could be looked at in an unfavorable manner. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/12/19 at 15:05:48 3225232F2030420 wrote:
So? If he's such a "great businessman", he'd be able to explain what that means to a poor schlub like me... right? No, sorry. 1 - He's an idiot or 2 - He's a crook. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/13/19 at 03:26:41 342A252429342F32400 wrote:
So? If he's such a "great businessman", he'd be able to explain what that means to a poor schlub like me... right? No, sorry. 1 - He's an idiot or 2 - He's a crook.[/quote] Uninformed voters would struggle with the concept of tax burdens and the vicious liberal media would have a field day with it. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/13/19 at 04:43:26 Uninformed voters would struggle with the concept of tax burdens and the vicious liberal media would have a field day with it. Tap in birdie for that answer PG. Would have given you an eagle had you included protecting other businesses from the leftist in our country would target if they showed up as partners with Trump. But those are both two sides of the same coin. While ignoring the reality every single wealthy leftist has their own strategies to hide their legal financial actions from view, they'd crucify Trump for his. These lawsuits will make their way to the Supreme Court where they'll obviously lose. Kinda tough to make income taxes part of the requirements for President when there wasn't an income tax when the constitution was written. But, i'm shocked it hasn't happened yet, someone will illegally release his taxes at some point and that person will be crowned a saint by leftist. Now, is it possible Trump is a tax cheat. Sure. I'd say odds are 75% you could find something. Question is what is it and how many others do the same. Regardless, with the media the way it is today, there would be no fair discussion, it would be like this impeachment BS. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/13/19 at 07:27:39 4F7D7A6B6C7D6A55796A73180 wrote:
Thanks for endorsing my point! 1 - He's an idiot or 2 - He's a crook. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/14/19 at 03:32:42 As we knew all along, there was never a number 3- just a bunch of noise. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by thumperclone on 11/15/19 at 15:43:37 update 11/11/2019 according to Trump he is "the most transparent president in history" |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/16/19 at 05:31:58 7D716679777F77657E100 wrote:
I gave a pretty detailed and solid number 3. Hardly a bunch of noise. It's hard to deny the likelihood Trump's taxes would be treated fairly. Let's assume there's nothing significant in them that's out of line with anyone else in his income and business bracket. Trump had some casinos go bankrupt primarily in Atlantic City if I recall. He was not the only one. Those failures are a topic brought up on here repeatedly. Worth noting by those who've never been even remotely involved in a senior management position in an operation like that. In a previous life, I was a credit manager for an heavy equipment provider so I've got some real world practical experience with reviewing financial statements and company history before investing funds to build custom equipment for a company. My authority limit was relatively small being a youngster in the business. 500k or a million, don't recall exactly, but I also participated in reviewing the really big ones. Here's the reality. Sure, there are large companies with spotless records on paper. And I'd emphasize the on paper part. But there are a lot of companies with somewhat of a checkered past. Operating a business is hard, that's why only a few do it. You can be the smartest person in the world and fail because of circumstances out of your control. You can make 99 correct moves in a row but that last one might set up your demise. Or.....you can be dump as a rock and stumble into success. One of the smartest people I ever worked for drove home that point repeatedly. Her point was to look at the broadest base of information as possible to arrive at the decision that was more likey to occur than the other. And even if you did all that and made the most educated decision that should deliver success, you can still lose. Point is, most every person in Trump's category has failures in the past, some more than others. I have no idea where Trump stacks up because let's face it, there aren't many Donald Trumps. If I were going to benchmark to someone, I'd look at Mark Cuban. Certainly worth noting that Cuban made noise about running against Trump (and if you recall the idea was well received) but that has virtually disappeared. I wonder what role revealing all his business dealings played in that? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/16/19 at 13:21:07 ...in other words, the truth has never favored Trump- and Trump has never favored the truth -so the elusive #3 is nothing more than validation of #1 or #2. Mark's bloviating boils down to 'Trump's history, if known, would hurt him'. As usual, he blames the observer, not the wrongdoer- and, as predicted, three equals zero. That's Trumpian mathematics for ya- take a sum and shuffle it around until there's nothing left. Trump stole charitable donations- including those intended for veterans, he swindled students who trusted Trump would help them toward a better life- yet Mark extends understanding to Trump as he breaks his campaign promise to release his taxes. It ain't trust folks- it's commerce: Trump gets Mark's unwavering support, and, in return, Mark gets a president that resembles him. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/17/19 at 04:53:15 ...in other words, the truth has never favored Trump- and Trump has never favored the truth -so the elusive #3 is nothing more than validation of #1 or #2. I'm not sure how you arrived at that from my response. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/17/19 at 05:31:43 The premise of the lead post you've spent several pages contesting is sunlight striking Trump's taxes will show him to be 1) a crook or 2) lying about his business. Your long winded pitch amounts to nothing more than to affirm the record would damage Trump on those points, which could only be true were he lying. You've blown some thin smoke about how unfair it would be to hold Trump to account for his deeds. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/17/19 at 05:41:54 nothing more than to affirm the record would damage Trump on those points, which could only be true were he lying That's just simply not true. I suspect a complete and detailed investigation of every financial transaction you've ever had would reveal incidents that, in the hands of an opposition press with a wide audience, could easily portray you to be anyone they choose. Even if Trump's taxes were spotless, which I'm sure they are not, you would nonetheless glob onto anything to stick on top of your latest battle flag and lead the mob with pitchforks and torches. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/17/19 at 15:47:02 He is hiding something. Only 2 possible explanations. 1 - he's a crook 2 - he's a worse businessman than anyone thought |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/17/19 at 16:36:56 203E31303D203B26540 wrote:
So you have seen the tax returns.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/17/19 at 17:36:07 5740464A4555270 wrote:
So you have seen the tax returns.... Best regards,[/quote] No. Which is why I give 2 options. Have you seen them? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/17/19 at 22:03:51 Trump has demonstrated zero concern for how I regard him, and his sychophsnts don't care about his crimes or character. The risk of exposure is legal, not political- it is the court that requires Trump's tax record in pursuit of further demonstrating his violations of law. We already know he is a crook and liar- the only question is if he will be able to avoid prosecution; that feat will require sustained obstruction of justice. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 03:53:25 666A7D626C646C7E650B0 wrote:
The left had years, 30M +, and unlimited resources to execute a fraud invensigation and couldn't find anything. Evidently that is not good enough for you.... If the left is confident in their impeachment position, he will be gone. If the left is so confident in their candidates and the will of the people, he will be gone. So what is the issue? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 03:55:32 796768696479627F0D0 wrote:
So you have seen the tax returns.... Best regards,[/quote] No. Which is why I give 2 options. Have you seen them?[/quote] I said it first, and I provided a sound rationale why he didn't his returns. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by WebsterMark on 11/18/19 at 07:59:55 And PG is right. To say there is only two possible possibilities is too narrow of a view. Like I said, I'm positive if you examined his taxes, you would find entries that are open to debate. However, if you examined the taxes of a 100 others in Trump's category, you would find the same. (Now that Obama is a multi-millionaire with book deals, speeches etc... I'm sure a conservative discerning eye could make an argument with his taxes as well. His accountant will take whatever deductions he can find) My guess is there's nothing other than small technical violations on his taxes, not more than anyone else. I do suspect there's deductions that the left would play up as avoiding taxes like the example PG pointed out. I also suspect there's information that would show business dealings that the left would turn into something they're not. Regardless, you can't make public taxes a prerequisite for the Office. You can make it a campaign topic and maybe the public will demand to see everyone's taxes, but it can't be a legal requirement unless you amend the Constitution. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 09:20:12 3C2B2D212E3E4C0 wrote:
So you have seen the tax returns.... Best regards,[/quote] No. Which is why I give 2 options. Have you seen them?[/quote] I said it first, and I provided a sound rationale why he didn't his returns. Best regards, [/quote] Your rationale implies that he wants to hide something. Just as I said. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 09:25:22 4B797E6F68796E517D6E771C0 wrote:
Nope - never said they should be. But what if a guy like Bloomberg somehow won the nomination and then the presidency? The repubs would go ape if he refused to release his taxes. This is about precedent, and the fact that he's bucking it is more than suspicious. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/18/19 at 09:32:32 223C33323F223924560 wrote:
Yeeeeep. A lot of equivocation, rationalization, and bluster- 4 years of it now. In the beginning and end, a crook and a liar; what sort of person follows a person like that? What sort of person sacrifices their integrity for a person like that? They've made a trade- and we are given no cause to hope they will ever value conscious over pride. This is how Trump works- get you to make a little trade, a little piece of yourself that can be rationalized. Then another. And another. Until the horror of what you've done is too great to confront. Then you're left to choose between guilt and shame, or pride. That's not even really a choice, for most. Identity, self, and Trump have become indistinguishable. Trump is no genius; these are well-worn tactics delineated in the book he is reported to have kept at his bedside, the scheming of another failure of humanity. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 13:35:32 262A3D222C242C3E254B0 wrote:
Someone who believes in the free-market, 2A, private property, self-determination, and rugged individualism. I have not compromised my integrity. I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/18/19 at 14:01:45 4A5D5B5758483A0 wrote:
Someone who believes in the free-market, 2A, private property, self-determination, and rugged individualism. I have not compromised my integrity. I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them. Best regards,[/quote] Wow, it's sad that anyone would admit that they don't support altruism. That's somewhat sociopathic. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 15:14:51 637D72737E637865170 wrote:
Someone who believes in the free-market, 2A, private property, self-determination, and rugged individualism. I have not compromised my integrity. I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them. Best regards,[/quote] Wow, it's sad that anyone would admit that they don't support altruism. That's somewhat sociopathic.[/quote] Yes, I'm sure it would seem sociopathic to a marxist. Perhaps you have heard of "Unalienable Rights", "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ".... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/18/19 at 15:32:01 382629282538233E4C0 wrote:
Somewhat? It's sociopathy elevated to virtue. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/18/19 at 17:39:52 323E29363830382A315F0 wrote:
Somewhat? It's sociopathy elevated to virtue. [/quote] Not at all, Marxists can not grasp the concept. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGyEy18mEM[/media] Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/19/19 at 05:04:53 2F383E323D2D5F0 wrote:
Altruism: the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others. "some may choose to work with vulnerable elderly people out of altruism" No, it's sad that anyone would reject these types of behaviour. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/19/19 at 05:52:51 544A454449544F52200 wrote:
Altruism: the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others. "some may choose to work with vulnerable elderly people out of altruism" No, it's sad that anyone would reject these types of behaviour.[/quote] Ok, what have you done for humanity this year? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/19/19 at 06:29:12 4D5A5C505F4F3D0 wrote:
You clearly didn't understand "disinterested and selfless concern"- altruism can not pivot on the regard or performance of others. Again, sociopathic. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/19/19 at 06:47:43 4A46514E4048405249270 wrote:
You clearly didn't understand "disinterested and selfless concern"- altruism can not pivot on the regard or performance of others. Again, sociopathic. [/quote] I understand selfless concern; however, not on an indiscriminate basis. How about yourself, do you practice what you preach? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/19/19 at 07:50:49 6077717D7262100 wrote:
Altruism: the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others. "some may choose to work with vulnerable elderly people out of altruism" No, it's sad that anyone would reject these types of behaviour.[/quote] Ok, what have you done for humanity this year? Best regards,[/quote] As much as I can, given my time restraints. I give back to St. Jude, I worked at a fundraiser for Combat Bike Saver, I'll be working for TFT and at the Great Chicago Food Depository in mid December. That's only a small part. What have you done? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/19/19 at 08:25:49 352B242528352E33410 wrote:
Since you should ask. Someone I work with had a sick spouse for the past year; actually, a subordinate. On professional level I tailor made the schedule for a year to accommodate for numerous doctors appointments. I guided him through the process to of going on and off FMLA twice. Assisted with numerous HR issues. Personally, I provided gas money so he could take his wife to the doctor. I paid his light bill a couple times, and provided grocery money. I told him he could pay me back when convenient, knowing I will never see the money again. I lost keeping track; however, it is at least 1K. The spouse recently passed. I recused a poor little kitten as well. It took a while, but it is doing well. However, I’ve been doing animal rescues for years. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/19/19 at 08:28:11 7D6A6C606F7F0D0 wrote:
Typically I lament distractions from the lead topic- here, the courts compelling the delivery of documents as part of a prosecution -but this diversion may bear far more substantial fruit. I rarely achieve "indiscriminate" altruism- judgement is a natural reflex I am subject to. 'Is that a tiger in the bush, or just the wind?' 'Is this need worthy of what I can offer?' is, by my reckoning, a necessary question. Most of my direct doing for others begins with folks I know; for strangers, direct giving of food or money is more typical, usually unplanned. 1 day packing boxes at a food bank is something I did this year, but nothing I would brag about- rather, it underlines my limited participation. I often carry food in the truck to disperse at traffic lights to those who ask for food; I can't validate that need, and usually don't try to. If the person petitioning for help is smoking a cigarette, I tend to give to someone else. I suspect most interpret cues to discriminate need in this way- accurate or not. I'm not sure if altruism actually requires selflessness- I reckon the calculation to help or not often involves our vision of self. I believe most of us would be more readily involved in helping others were we less isolated in our communities; those times when I've been handed a chance to help, I was grateful for the opportunity. A lack of participation doesn't equate to a lack of care- it's just so easy to become walled off in our own reality; that doesn't really define us. Some folks need to see a demonstration of effect and equity- they may help a stranded motorist, rescue a flood victim, or help with the education of an impoverished child, but then object to something like healthcare reform. I get that, even if I view it as a limitation of imagination. Topically, as part of a settlement, Trump has admitted to stealing from charity. More than just a lack of altruism, it is the opposite- and speaks to the character of the man seeking to hide his record. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Serowbot on 11/19/19 at 08:34:17 1106000C0313610 wrote:
Politics are everywhere... Just kidding... ;D PS.. your personal account belies your disdain for altruism... ...that's a compliment, BTW... 8-) |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/19/19 at 09:30:59 4B5C5A5659493B0 wrote:
Since you should ask. Someone I work with had a sick spouse for the past year; actually, a subordinate. On professional level I tailor made the schedule for a year to accommodate for numerous doctors appointments. I guided him through the process to of going on and off FMLA twice. Assisted with numerous HR issues. Why? In your own words, "I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them." Are you now lying? Personally, I provided gas money so he could take his wife to the doctor. I paid his light bill a couple times, and provided grocery money. I told him he could pay me back when convenient, knowing I will never see the money again. I lost keeping track; however, it is at least 1K. The spouse recently passed. So? Did you get the money back with interest? Because, in your own words "I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them." I recused a poor little kitten as well. It took a while, but it is doing well. However, I’ve been doing animal rescues for years. Why? Where's the profit or incentive in that? Because, in your own words "I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them." Best regards,[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/19/19 at 14:10:41 544A454449544F52200 wrote:
Not speaking with any specific insight into “pg”; that said, their is a common ideological rift some opposed to taxation fancy by which these seemingly contradicting statements may be reconciled. Some oppose taxation, but not elective charity- that is, they will reach into their pocket to give, but reject any notion of legislated charity or investment in society that is not perceived to be of direct personal benefit. Here, the use of “&” is critical- “altruism & collectivism”, not “altruism OR collectivism”. In the former case, the statements might not be contradictory, as the objection is to the two applied in concert. So, judging from previous statements, a sociopath, but in this case perhaps not a lying sociopath. Or my supposition may be completely wrong, there is no such nuance of language at play here, and both characterizations are reflective. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/20/19 at 04:44:20 535F48575951594B503E0 wrote:
I agree with much of this statement. Please note the deleted portion, I do not need a personal benefit. I use the term 'indiscriminate basis' so I may provide general boundaries; I prefer to see the direct benefits of my efforts. Now, off to the links... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/21/19 at 14:18:46 So? Did you get the money back with interest? No... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 05:35:27 2E393F333C2C5E0 wrote:
Hmm... and you call yourself a libertarian/capitalist? |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 11:33:06 534D42434E534855270 wrote:
Hmm... and you call yourself a libertarian/capitalist?[/quote] You referred to me sociopathic, then I provided an antidote revealing I went about and beyond to help someone. Then you said I was not honest, and then an insinuation that I am not true to my values. Can't have that cake and eat too... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Eegore on 11/22/19 at 11:39:29 "Can't have that cake and eat too... " Well, on these forums you can. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 12:53:49 0A2A28203D2A4F0 wrote:
True; however, in this case he is wearing it. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 13:09:30 7067616D6272000 wrote:
Hmm... and you call yourself a libertarian/capitalist?[/quote] You referred to me sociopathic, then I provided an antidote revealing I went about and beyond to help someone. Then you said I was not honest, and then an insinuation that I am not true to my values. Can't have that cake and eat too... Best regards,[/quote] Well, did you not say "I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them."? There was no qualifier. This was a statement. It's up to you to defend it, not me. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 13:30:22 4E505F5E534E55483A0 wrote:
Your just upset the 'sociopath' did more to help people than you.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 13:50:05 2D3A3C303F2F5D0 wrote:
Your just upset the 'sociopath' did more to help people than you.... Best regards,[/quote] Did you? If that's true, then good for you. I don't see giving of yourself as a competition - sad that you do... Further, I'm not sure how you can be altruistic when you "do not support any values that may be associated with them" So, was your first statement a lie or an exaggeration? Like I said, it's yours to defend it, not me. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/22/19 at 13:58:02 7B656A6B667B607D0F0 wrote:
Your just upset the 'sociopath' did more to help people than you.... Best regards,[/quote] Did you? If that's true, then good for you. I don't see giving of yourself as a competition - sad that you do... Further, I'm not sure how you can be altruistic when you "do not support any values that may be associated with them" So, was your first statement a lie or an exaggeration? Like I said, it's yours to defend it, not me.[/quote] I already clarified the statement on 'indiscriminate basis' twice, do I need to do so yet again? Please refer to reply #58.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/22/19 at 14:18:06 445355595646340 wrote:
This is your entire initial quote: Someone who believes in the free-market, 2A, private property, self-determination, and rugged individualism. I have not compromised my integrity. I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them. It was only after you said 'indiscriminate basis'... You initial statement was absolute, leaving no room for any discretion. For the record, your initial statement "I do not support altruism & collectivism or any values that may be associated with them" is not accurate, now is it? You were lying, weren't you? See how this works? This is pretty much the same as the idiot conservatives' line of questioning this past week.... LMAO |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/23/19 at 10:25:52 796768696479627F0D0 wrote:
How is it the same? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 05:41:13 4057515D5242300 wrote:
How is it the same? Best regards,[/quote] If I have to explain, it ain't worth it.... ::) |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by pg on 11/25/19 at 10:50:26 7C626D6C617C677A080 wrote:
How is it the same? Best regards,[/quote] If I have to explain, it ain't worth it.... ::)[/quote] Nice punt.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by T And T Garage on 11/25/19 at 10:51:59 7661676B6474060 wrote:
How is it the same? Best regards,[/quote] If I have to explain, it ain't worth it.... ::)[/quote] Nice punt.... Best regards,[/quote] Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Sure, There's Nothing To Hide.... Post by Mavigogun on 11/25/19 at 12:57:00 Is this meta discussion just another distraction from the lead post? Tax returns. Corruption. Trump. Were he not President, Trump may have already gone the way of Al Capone; as is, prosecution waits for him on exiting the office... Yet, all the equivocation, obfuscation, absurd denial- it's also why this festering mess exists. It's an ouroboros. The willing puppets, evidence themselves of the effectiveness of Russian propaganda efforts, deny that any such meddling took place- or if it did, that it didn't effect them at all. Truth, these Trumpians were just looking for... permission; Putin didn't fool them into anything- only gave them a beat to dance to. The seeds of hate, animus, tribal division- they were all planted in fertile ground, waiting. |
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