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Message started by Oldfeller on 09/29/19 at 20:44:49

Title: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/19 at 20:44:49

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?387647-350-Legend-and-Cast-Boolits

Last year I built an AR based chipmunk gun to defend MM from the hordes of ninja chipmunks that have sworn to kill him if he goes camping anywhere near Little Switzerland in the NC mountains.

Realizing that bears and feral pigs wandering on the roads are also a threat to MM's life, I have built a more substantial gun to handle them.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?387647-350-Legend-and-Cast-Boolits

For those who noticed I have been missing for a few months ..... a reason to be absent no less.

;D ...... the bears and the hordes of pigs would just eat MM in his sleeping bag like a juicy yummy burrito wrap .....

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by MMRanch on 09/29/19 at 22:04:46

I had no Idea some states had come their senses about pistol bullets in rifles instead of "Mandatory Shot-Gun ONLY" .

I've been using my .357 rifle for hunting a long time and it takes dear as good as anything else. It might be easier to hit with a more "Flat-Shooting" round. :-?

Heck ! Deer ain't hard to kill , but ya got to hit em in a good spot --- just like anything else. ;)
..................................

I know two fellers that hunt with big guns : 7mm mag and a 300 Win Mag. They wound more deer than any other two people I know.

Just goes to prove Accurate is better than Power any day of the week ! ;)

Its been my experience that a 38 Special pistol is just as deadly on dear as a 45-70. All you have to aim the thing . :)

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by MMRanch on 09/29/19 at 22:11:41

So , OldFeller

Are you not even ridding your Savage for short rides any-more ?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Gary RVA on 09/29/19 at 22:34:48

Elmer Kieth would have used a 338 Win mag, ( I have carried one for dang near 20 years now)

a Pistol job is to get you to your rifle.... that said 357 to 44 mag will do, just remember to have on you when you need it

Rifle anything 308 or so will do fine

Let not forget the time honored 12 gauge/ 18.5 barrel slugs and buckshot still works when you need the support....

;)

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 09/30/19 at 07:41:56

As you read the thread reference, you see I had considered loading a stack of 3 triple aught buckshot (after powder coating them) into the long brass 350 Legend case to make a pig exterminator round. Each buckshot would come out of the gun spin stabilized at greater speeds than the old black powder guns could give it, so yes they could kill a pig.

Two of the bullets I cast come from the world of pistols, the gas checked 200 grain slug comes from the world of 35 Remington and is a pure rifle bullet.

MM, I'm done riding. It hurts too much and I get frequent dizzy spells now and that isn't good when you are out on a bike. This upcoming spring I put it in the paper and move it.

Any of you guys want it, PM me.

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by springman on 09/30/19 at 09:16:20

Really sorry to hear you won't be riding any more Oldfeller. But it sounds like it is the right decision for you. Take care of yourself friend.

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/01/19 at 12:39:11

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249058&d=1569810751&thumb=1

This gun is a monument to selectively "buying it cheap" as the guns go for $1,499 right about now ......

Finished 350 Legend gun, sling and brass catcher all mounted.

Upper .............. $269
Lower .............. $150 includes $20 trigger spring kit and handle stop screw
Scope ............... $79
Shipping ........... $60
New Molds ....... $55
750 ea Brass .... $38
Sizing stuff ........ $30
Transfer fee ...... $25
Brass Catcher ... $20
Sling .................. $5

Total ................. $731

All of this goes to show it is all of the minutia, all of the little stuff that really adds up on ya ......

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by verslagen1 on 10/01/19 at 13:10:16

I doubt they'll even allow you in Kalifornia for even touching that.

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Ruttly on 10/01/19 at 13:59:51

My pig gun is a Savage (Go Figure) stainless over/under 3” chambered 20ga cylinder choke with rifle sights and a 357 maximum for the top barrel. And always with a 357 magnum revolver for a side arm , just in case !

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by LANCER on 10/01/19 at 14:03:35

Hey Kelly’s !

Did not know you had stopped riding, but understandable. How’s your health otherwise ?
That’s a really nice firearm project. Will you be going into more ?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/01/19 at 23:05:30

Lancer,

I am an advancing diabetic. All of my various symptoms spring from that. Eyes, hearing, balance, energy, joint pain (hips, knees, ankles, wrists, fingers) --- all of it is going slowly.

I can still enjoy building a gun and chatting with the gun people on line. I could enjoy driving my car and meeting up with you bike guys somewhere if you ever get a larger group together again. I could see even sponsoring a trip, providing tent/food etc. if there were any takers.

Shame that, there are NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE who will even go on a trip any more ........

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/01/19 at 23:11:41

Versy,

I got a 3 ball load in mind that will put 3 each 000 buckshot on a string from this mold after powder coating the string of 3 ......

http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-9cz07roJna-QAtTrzSZlAW8xLknCMzeW9wMFmwdvwOWhHVOKYR8&usqp=CAc

..... into the long long 350 Legend case. It would be lumpy, but can be smoothed back to spec using a partial insertion into the 350 Legend finished sizing die.

What would California say to me double tapping a BG and hitting him Six Times ???

I call it the evil [smiley=evil.gif] AR load ......

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Ed L. on 10/09/19 at 18:42:41

OldFeller, sad to hear you have to stop riding, old age catches up to us all.
I'm over at castboolits also as Eddie2002 and hang out in the muzzleloader forum.
Spent some time working on light cast plinker loads for my military surplus. They work great out to about 50yds and cost about 10 cents a round.

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/10/19 at 22:22:28

http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-9cz07roJna-QAtTrzSZlAW8xLknCMzeW9wMFmwdvwOWhHVOKYR8&usqp=CAc

Well, Amazon has stock again for $46 and I am still curious. So I ordered one that will be here Sunday by 8:00 PM.

The Evil [smiley=evil.gif] AR round may yet live .......

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by jcstokes on 10/10/19 at 23:43:46

How many rounds can the gun in the picture shoot from one magazine?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/19 at 05:29:05

747D6D6A71757B6D1E0 wrote:

How many rounds can the gun in the picture shoot from one magazine?

;D

Define "rounds" a little bit first -- do you mean "bang sounds" or "projectile count"?

Bang sounds can range from 5 to 10 to 20 to 30 to 40 to 60 depending on the magazine you use (and the magazine capacity laws in your local area).

For the Evil [smiley=evil.gif] AR round projectile counts, multiply the answer you got above by 3x .....

So, using North Carolina rules, I can pack me 180 projectiles in one load up for wild pig herd thinning uses, something that makes Beto positively drool to come to get my 3x Evil Evil Evil [smiley=evil.gif] AR.

What stops him is simple reality --- a 12 gauge shotgun does 3 times more per bang than my evil AR does per bang.

And even Beto isn't stupid enough to go after the shotguns, not even the Brits will go there .....

How fast did the old long single shot Kentucky rifles sling a 36 caliber ball using black powder? 1,550 fps is what modern chronographs apparently see --- which is pretty slow since I can sling 3 of them almost that fast with BLC-2 without straining things too much.

Shotguns do 1350 fps regularly with buckshot loads. so these speeds are obviously quite deadly within 50-100 yards. 80 yards is considered a common "maximum range" for shotgun buckshot as it starts to spread too far about then. Not because it won't penetrate and kill, it just goes out of control.

The Evil [smiley=evil.gif] AR won't have that 80 yard maximum problem, as each pellet is spin stabilized as it would be from a Kentucky rifle.

;D

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/19 at 05:34:37

I am officially blaming JC for getting me all humorously worked up, I jest ordered the LEE mold shown here.
http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-9cz07roJna-QAtTrzSZlAW8xLknCMzeW9wMFmwdvwOWhHVOKYR8&usqp=CAc

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/14/19 at 23:20:31

Just a little tickler about multi-ball loadings in the 350 Legend rifle case.

I think they will separate during the trip up the case and into the forcing cone and into the barrel.

Certainly the balls will separate upon impact, making a cone shaped dispersion pattern inside the target animal.

The "3 balls still on the string" weigh within 10 grains of what the large rifle bullet weighs, and they will use the same powder charge which will barely fit under the "string of 3".

This means instead of banging a single 66 grain .224 bullet at feral pigs with a standard AR-15, you can now hit them with a string of three .355" balls flying true at greater than shotgun distances and rapidly eradicate them seed rooting nuisance making feral pigs more effectively.

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by MMRanch on 10/15/19 at 21:11:51

Well , those are almost perty !

When the fist one hit the rifling it should Twist Off before the one behind it gets to the rifling . Then as the rear one is under pressure and the rifling is slowing down the front one maybe smash out a little of the lube in between in the process .?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/16/19 at 01:11:47

Yep, the first one twists itself free of the larger mass of the remaining two upon entering the rifling, the middle one gets another twist relative to the last one when it hits the rifling, then the last one continues increasing the twist slightly while the middle one exits the barrel and stops increasing, thus reversing the direction of the twist differential between the two.

Lit burning powder gets blown in between the last two pellets when the case walls first expand to hit the chamber walls, so you got some powder pressure differential between the last two balls that will also cause them to separate going up the bore.

We know from the shotgun guys that they do not bother to separate the strings of 3 pellets as they will hit paper 50 yards away as separate pellets having just been choked once going up a smooth bore, so I think if the firing forces and a simple gentle choke are enough to separate the pellets jest dandy then I am fine in my rifle. I have more severe forces in my gun as I am not over an ounce of shot getting slowly boosted to 1350 fps, I am a line of single pellets getting boosted up over 1550 fps fairly abruptly, dealing with a lot more force to do that in a shorter distance and a forcing cone and a rifling twist.

The shot to shot junctions will get flatted pretty good I suspect and the twist action will sever the little lead string in the middle of the flats between the pellets pretty good I suspect.

I also think this load would really confuse the heck out of my chronograph, with three little shadow blips flying past it in a row .......

;D

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by MMRanch on 10/16/19 at 08:34:39

I'd think the shot string would appear as one for at least the first 20 yards being the last one out the barrel doing the pushing and them being lined up really,really strait in the bore for their acceleration part of their trip .

I had a young man tell me one time about the bullet being faster 10' from the muzzle than it is at the muzzle ! ;D ;D ;D
So
I asked him how when the acceleration ended 1/4" from the bore ? :-?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/16/19 at 10:08:12

Been getting some requests for a heavy subsonic load for the Legend for those who love silencers and potting pigs at night using infra-red scopes.

Got no silencer personally, I don't personally need a subsonic load for any reason ---- but such is possible using tech I have already shown to folks.

The lead locomotive in the Blue Train is a 125 grain LEE 2R 9mm pistol slug that the mold is currently available everywhere for $24-$30. This hangs out in front of the case giving it out of the magazine and into the chamber lead in guidance that the little round ball really lacks the ability to do to a large degree.

With 3 balls it could only be a sub-sonic, cut the ball count down to 2 and it could be a fairly respectable heavy rifle loading.

Weight of lead is 335 grains for the four projectile load (as shown) and 265 grains for a two ball with the Luger style bullet in front.

These extremely heavy load weights may require slow powders like WC872 for a slow start if you were trying for supersonic, but seeing how much lead is involved the WC872 will likely have lots & lots of time to burn completely.

Or do what the shotgunners do, simply use some fast pistol powders like Blue Dot but only use a little tiny bit of them.

Upon loading the balls, you will get a chain of bulges in the case that would require insertion part way into the full length sizing die just to iron the bulges out. This is no sin because you need to stick the finished round into the full length sizing die anyway to slow taper crimp the case mouth into the first bullet.

The lead alloy is air dropped wheel weight alloy and firing such loads will likely immediately "slug the chain of pellets up" upon firing to whatever the chamber wall and the expanded case will allow ---- the forcing cone comes next and reduces it all back down to .355" anyway.

Think revolvers and the cylinder throat slugging action and you will realize we do this sort of stuff all the time anyway in our pistols.

The untouched bullet in the front always caps the fizz anyway, so it isn't like any pressure will be lost and the entire blue train will still exit the station in an organized fashion.

;)

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by MMRanch on 10/16/19 at 21:35:44

OldFeller , What is that BLUE Lube ? It looks fairly hard and shinny-makes me think of a wax . Could it be your own mixture of BeesWax and Blue Alox ?

Title: Re: Pig and Bear gun
Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/19 at 00:36:53

MM, it is not a lube. It is Ford Light Blue powder coating from Eastwood Corp. Ford uses it to coat rocker arm covers and oil pans. It is a fine blue polyester powder that you tumble the bullets in bulk (I use a small bowl tumbler) and you can do hundreds of bullets at a lick.

Then you put them on parchment paper on a cookie sheet in the oven at 250-300 degrees and fuse the powder into the slick coating you see on the slugs. You cure it for 30 minutes total, then let it cool.

The stuff is tough, you can scratch lead with your fingernail but a fingernail will never make an impression on the powder coating. You can beat a coated bullet with a hammer and mash it flat, and the flexible tough coating just moves right with the mushed lead.

Expanded bullets will keep the coating on the unabraded lead, it acts sorta like a thin jacket in a lot of ways.

All of the bullets you see have been sized to .3565" in a LEE push through sizer after coating and curing, none of the lead shows because the powder coat is just that tough.

Read up on it on YouTube, lots of videos out there as folks begin using it all over the place.