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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS650 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1565544401 Message started by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:26:39 |
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Title: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS650 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:26:39 I have a list of stuff I want for my bike.
I believe I have these things now, with a bit of elbow grease. Behold.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:29:17 That's the Savage triple tree top bridge on there. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:33:00 Forks, rotors, calipers, axle and wheel from a 85 Kawasaki Zl900 Eliminator. That bike has the same diameter and length forks (air assisted), which sit in a triple clamps the exact same width apart as the Savage (7.5"). The wheel is 18" cast tubeless design. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:36:05 Will need a bit of make-it-fit in regards to spacers. Either that or the spacer that came with my axle aren't the correct ones.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 10:39:34 Big list of stuff needed yet. Brake lines and splitter. Speedo drive or replace with spacer? Master cylinder? Rebuild calipers. New tire that fits. etc. etc. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by ZSteele on 08/11/19 at 10:55:22 This looks like an awesome project, I'm excited to see this progress so I can do it someday! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 11:48:11 Now that the never ending kitchen rebuilding project is nearly completed I'm excited to finally be getting back to work on my bike! Just made the $8 bike lift so I can get to work. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by batman on 08/11/19 at 19:08:20 cost? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/11/19 at 19:32:15 Wheel $75 Forks $55 Rotors $12 Axle $8 Calipers $21 Fender $10 Bolts for rotors 99 cents For some parts the shipping was more than the part. Rebuild kits for the calipers will run another $30. Brake lines and crossover will depend on if I choose braided stainless or OEM. The braided will cost $114. OEM varies wildly. If I choose to use the ZL900 speedo driver that's another $10-$15. If the LS650 master cylinder isn't up to the job of actuating two pistons then that's another cost. The wheel and forks are in excellent condition. Fork seals look nicer than the ones on my bike. Will change fork oil so whatever oil costs. The rotors are pretty worn, I need get specs and check if they're still usable. Calipers look like crap but the pistons are free and the pads have alot of life. And the tire, if I choose Shinko, is inexpensive. But if I decide to stick with Avon that's a buzzkill. :-/ Overall this comes to much less than the Marauder front end. No matter how I went about it there's no way I could find of getting one for less than $500. I gave up on it. This is much less work too. It's practically plug and play. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/12/19 at 06:51:23 Very interesting project. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/12/19 at 12:20:48 Looks like I definitely need to get the speedometer drive gear even if only for measurements sake. Looks to me it serves as the left side wheel spacer. This was an interesting time for Kawasaki. Surprising amount of parts overlapping across the Eliminators, Ninjas and Concourse. Bad thing is OEM parts for these years has mostly dried up. If this all works out I can tell people my bike is a Kawazuki Davidson :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by batman on 08/12/19 at 15:57:08 I'd test the bike with only one disc first , your bike is 200lbs lighter ,two might tend to do an on wanted stoppie, or worse lockup the front tire. but it looks good ! cool find! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/12/19 at 16:58:22 Thanks for that. I hadn't considered that possibility. Considering I'm so accustomed to squeezing that lever with a death grip coming down the end of a highway ramp I'll need to reevaluate how I apply brakes with this setup. What is the best cleaning solution for really cruddy calipers? Is it safe to power wash them? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by batman on 08/12/19 at 18:47:54 Depends on what you call crud, if it grease and dirt -dove dish soap with a bit of vinegar , if it's oxidation -marvel mystery oil , if they leaked brake fluid - caliper cleaner (spray) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/12/19 at 19:08:23 Ok I'll try that stuff. I read somewhere to use denatured alcohol too. Sounds suspiciously like alcohol abuse to me. :D Anyway I've got time to kill until I get paid again and can order needed parts so I'm gonna dig up some old toothbrushes and scrub the heck out of these things. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/16/19 at 17:07:26 The speedo drive is ordered as well as a set of OEM brake lines for $20. Need to download the service manual for the ZL900 because what I'm looking at does not match up to the parts diagram at all. https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/137226/1985/ZL900-A1 The speedometer receiver in my wheel looks nothing like the one in the diagram. I suspect that the wheel is possibly a different year than advertised. I'll get to the bottom of it... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Dave on 08/17/19 at 04:14:40 If I was going to use those brake calipers - I would take them apart and clean them up before I put them to use. I would likely also buy the rubber seals and replace them......they get hard over time and the pistons can stick and cause the brakes to drag. Clean the rubber parts with dish washing soap and hot water......no mineral solvents as the rubber can absorb it and the parts will be ruined. The metal parts can be cleaned more aggressively with stronger soap and a cleaner......I would use Bike Bright as it is a strong cleaner/degreaser that does not attack paint or aluminum. Pressure washing is fine once you have the caliper apart. The "crud" you are talking about may be corrosion, as some of the brake dust can be corrosive to aluminum. The only way to get that off may be to use steel wool, sandpaper, Scotch Bright, etc......follow up with fine steel wool and then polishing past (If you have a buffer - "Bob's your Uncle"). If you can't get the metal to look good - powder coating or brake caliper paint is your best best. And Batman makes a good point - the stock master cylinder is sized for a single piston caliper on a single brake disc. You should compare the size of the Savage caliper piston to the size of the caliper piston the brakes came from.....maybe even use the brake caliper that matches the front end you are using. The Savage isn't powerful enough, heavy enough or fast enough to need dual front brakes - as good single disc will provide plenty of brake....but since you got 2 you might as well try it. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/17/19 at 07:31:36 I might as well try it? Thanks but that's sorta the whole point of this exercise. :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/17/19 at 08:02:25 Can someone tell me what's the preferred method of fork removal? Do I take off the gas tank and hook ratcheting straps between the frame and the overhead joist in the garage to lift the front of the bike high enough? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/19 at 08:12:35 Can someone tell me what's the preferred method of fork removal? I can tell you the Quickest way. Is it the PreFerred way? I don't think so. My forks are laying by the bike.. Snapped off. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/19 at 08:31:55 You probably should take the tank off no matter what you do. lift the front end your preferred method. I have a chain hoist, and the hook goes in the square tube and you can lift the whole bike from there, nearly balanced. jack stands under the front pegs works really well for the front end or a block under the frame will do. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/17/19 at 08:45:30 I'm looking at single brake afterall. While cleaning the calipers I discovered one is totally seized. Not the piston but the sliders. Grrrr... I guess I'll try the hoisting method. Without any help with lifting the other methods will likely result in me hurting my back again like I did a few short weeks ago rebuilding the kitchen. Don't need anymore radiologist bills this year. And the snapping off method, while fast, isn't quite going to help with radiologist bills either ;) Ok time to shop for another caliper.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/17/19 at 10:34:30 Ok found another set of calipers. This time they're tested good according to the seller. Ordered them and just got notified that they've shipped. That's quick! No local hardware stores have chain hoists in stock. So I had to settle for a 2 ton come-along. https://www.acehardware.com/departments/hardware/chain-and-rope/load-binders/5896196 It'll work fine just to lift the front up. I'll get it setup when it cools off later. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/19 at 10:46:38 Harbor Freight? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/17/19 at 11:28:32 Harbor Freight is in the shoot-your-way-in-shoot-your-way-out side of the county. Not in the mood to ride through there today and can't remember where my bulletproof vest is. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/18/19 at 09:27:48 Has anyone here used this custom clamp? https://dcmotive.com/products/suzuki-ls650-s40-savage-flat-pinch-triple-clamp There's no way of securing the Kawasaki forks in the top bridge of the Savage clamps so I'm looking for options. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/18/19 at 10:46:17 I used a Come-Along to hoist the bike in the shop and set it down on a cinder block. I used a thin wooden shim to make it solid. While I was doing things that could upset it I kept the hoist connected and just barely snug. That was enough to get the seals done. I'd pull the tank if I was messing with the crown nut. Be a shame to mess it up. I have a strap, very heavy thing, on a 2x12 the Come-Along is on, and some woven nylon rope I put on the bike. It's not cheap. If the rope you're looking at has a woven exterior and strands of something running inside that woven tube, don't. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by BrokeAss on 08/18/19 at 15:20:49 Careful you don't give the bike too much braking power, it's only 381lbs stock, much less bobbed or cafe'd. I did synthetic fluid, a braided stainless line, and sintered pads for the '07 I built my buddy and you can lock the front tire with two fingers. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/18/19 at 16:50:15 Borrowed my neighbors chain hoist. The come-along was too long. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/18/19 at 16:53:55 Had to use the bike lock for my mountain bike. Holds the bike like a champ. What size wrench do I need for the caps on the Savage forks? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by zipidachimp on 08/19/19 at 00:24:10 Bought the DC Motive top clamp for my hotrod. Looks nicer than the Ryca and they drilled riser holes, which Ryca wouldn't. Won;t install for another week, but if it's anything like the Ryca, steering is improved muchly with forks shoved up 30mm. The Ryca will go on my standard. Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/19/19 at 06:01:49 6A79607974717378797D60100 wrote:
Thanks I appreciate hearing about your experience with them. After getting in touch with Darren I learned that the riser model is setup for the 3.5" riser width and drilled the same size as HD uses making it a simple matter to find risers that fit. I placed an order last night and it's already been shipped. My next dilemma will be figuring out where to mount the brake line crossover.... :-? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/19/19 at 17:45:29 The missing puzzle piece arrived. The speedo drive. And it's exactly the missing 39mms long. And built with an integral wheel spacer. It fits perfectly over the weird drive gear thing too. When I measure from the outside of it to the left end of the axle I get two inches. While measuring from the outside of the wheel spacer to the right end of the axle it's 2" too. It's on like donkey knog now bitches! :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/22/19 at 07:00:04 I've got to give my neighbor his chain hoist back tonight. So I'm looking to buy one. Recommedations? Are the handle types any good? Keeping the filthy chains away from the bike is a PITA. The lever handle types would fix that headache. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/19 at 07:36:52 I saw no point in keeping the floor length chain. So I cut it. It's above the bike until it's a couple feet off the ground. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/22/19 at 08:13:05 There's some hooks in the garage and those helped but the chains still managed to get in my way at certain angles. I wish I could have cut them. Have you ever tried the lever type? Do they wear your arm out? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by SpamyToo on 08/22/19 at 08:13:46 These aint too bad for the price. I know a guy that has been using 2 of them for probably 6 or 7 years now with no issues. Has them mounted to his garage ceiling. https://www.harborfreight.com/440-lbs-electric-hoist-with-remote-control-60346.html |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/22/19 at 08:24:52 The garage I rent has no power. I'm looking at this unit https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200710433_200710433 Good price. Good reviews... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/22/19 at 09:05:31 65766F767B7E7C7776726F1F0 wrote:
Received my DC clamp yesterday and I'm impressed with the design and workmanship. It's a great looking part! Can't wait to get it on my bike. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/22/19 at 16:21:52 It's official. Thumpy is a Kwakazuki now! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by zipidachimp on 08/22/19 at 22:12:12 took my dc motive top tree for a ride this aft. Forks set at 30mm up. Steering is really improved, understeer is history!!! I had to use taller risers for the forks to clear the handlebars, but it's worth it! I put zip ties on the fork legs to see how much clearance I have in a panic stop, still 2 inches clear! Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/25/19 at 16:58:35 Head scratching time. I'm trying to mount the wheel and rotors and on the left side the speedo drive is too wide by about an 1/8". Not sure why? Maybe there's some not obvious trick to mounting it to the wheel properly? When I take it off the wheel is perfectly centered against the right spacer. So I don't think the spacer is the problem. Maybe a fork is bent? Half tempted to introduce the drive to my bench grinder.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 06:46:11 Ok forks are straight. Possibly I have the wrong part. I'm going to forego the speedo drive and use a chunk of solid insulation board in its place. Then once I've got the brakes setup and working properly I'll take the now squished to the correct size insulation foam out and measure it. Then I'll take the measurement and a wheel spacer blank to the machine shop and have a spacer cut to fill the speedo drive gap. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by SpamyToo on 08/26/19 at 07:36:49 I just did some checking to make sure that the LS650 and the ZL900 forks are the same on center. As far as I can tell they are both 190mm apart. So that shouldnt be the problem. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 07:51:41 0B283935210C3737580 wrote:
Thanks for looking out. The calipers and rotors lineup with the wheel against the right spacer. No issues there. I'm still waiting on the ZL900 service manual. The download didn't work so the seller is sending it on CDROM and that's taking forever. The manual will help point out if I'm missing something and at least provide me with a reliable source of part #s. I think half the battle is getting incorrect information. There's A and B versions of this bike and I suspect this may be biting me in butt with buying parts. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 08:22:55 Reviewing the parts diagrams there's the discrepancy with the gear for the speedo drive in my wheel. The one I have is different looking from the drawing. For some reason its probably the wrong part and the gear is stopping the drive from seating all the way into the hub. That would explain the 1/8" offset. For all I know the wheel or the gear came from a Ninja or one of the other models with similar parts. I'm not gonna try and figure it out. I've got better uses for my time. I'll just go the custum spacer route and call it a day... I don't need the drive and it probably won't work with the Savage speedometer anyway. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Fast 650 on 08/26/19 at 09:21:20 That is from about the time when all of the Japanese makes standardized the speedometer ratio. I don't recall what year that happened but if it was after that point then any speedometer would read correctly with that drive. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by SpamyToo on 08/26/19 at 09:34:43 Page 58 of the parts manual shows it looking like this. You can download the manuals from my site if you want. Some of them are pretty large though. The service manual may not be completely uploaded yet. I have a ton of manuals here and there. https://dcmotive.com/manuals |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 11:17:37 03243631737075450 wrote:
Interesting. I did not know this. Considering Suzuki made up their own proprietary spinoff of the CAN-BUS protocol on their modern bikes I have to wonder about their adherence to standards over the years. ::) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 11:20:32 193A2B27331E25254A0 wrote:
My 41064 has 4 "teeth" instead of the 2 shown in that drawing. Kinda fishy me thinks. I certainly love free manuals. Muchas Gracias Señor! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 16:48:11 Ok ordered 15mm axle stock. Hey and my service manual came in the mail today! It came from Greece. No wonder the long wait... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/26/19 at 18:25:30 The manual confirms my suspicion. It says line up the drive housing so that the teeth in the gear line up with and fit into the two slots inside the housing. Under a bright light I can see inside the housing and there's two slots. My gear has 4 teeth so it can't fit all the way into the housing since 2 of those teeth Don't have corresponding slots. Sooooo, custom spacer. I'm not hunting down another elusive part. On the bright side I now have torque values for all the nuts and bolts and the procedure for replacing the fork oil. This last is good since I've found at least 4 totally conflicting forum posts on the amount of oil to put in around the web >:( |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 08/28/19 at 16:41:32 Picked up some retention ring pliers for taking the fork caps off and used them to remove the speedo drive gear from the wheel. Turns out that the gear doesn't have 4 teeth it has 2 like it's supposed to. But its damaged in such a way that it looks like 4 teeth. Bent the damaged parts back the right way and sure enough it fits all the way in now. And the spacer stock came today. Go figure. I also managed to free up the frozen caliper I was grouching about before. The rubber condom that goes over the slider pin got bound up inside the tube. Folded over itself from lack of lubrication I guess. I've had that happen to me too and it's not pleasant. Anyway put my rubber mallet to good use and now I have the bracket free which I need for new calipers which have the wrong brackets. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/01/19 at 11:43:06 DIY wheel spacer done. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/01/19 at 12:56:15 Perfect fit! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by DragBikeMike on 09/01/19 at 18:16:01 That spacer looks total pro. How did you make it? I think you are gonna have a handful of brakes when you are finished with this project. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/01/19 at 18:39:22 Thanks it's my 1st ever. I hacksawed the stock 2mm longer than needed and squared off and shortened using a combo belt/disk sander real careful like until I had it a hair longer than 39mm. That being the width of the speedo drive. I put the factory cut side of the spacer on the bearing side in case the cut end wasn't a perfect square. As for the brakes they're single piston calipers and I don't expect they'll be any worse than the massive brembos on my Ducati. I've ridden that bike with ABS turned off and yes it's alot of brakes but still manageable if you are mindful. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/02/19 at 12:46:11 Decisions, decisions. The ZL900 Eliminator has a long chrome front brake crossover tube mounted right on the front of the lower triple clamp. See picture. To use that big crackpipe on the Savage mounting holes need to be drilled into the front of the triple clamp. There's really nowhere else to mount it. Or I can go with a 2 line setup like seen here... https://galferusa.com/products/lines What to do? 2-line setup is expensive and routing the lines might require some imagination. Crackpipe setup is cheaper since I have all necessary parts but does require making accurately spaced holes in the clamp. Hmmmmmmm.... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by SpamyToo on 09/02/19 at 18:55:52 Some lines from other bikes might be easier to mount the tee. But will still take some monkeying. The Boulevard lines look simpler. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-2007-2008-2009-SUZUKI-VZR1800-M109-Boulevard-FRONT-BRAKE-LINE-HOSE-LINES/130780517005?hash=item1e7320528d:g:uV4AAOSwyXNZ6K5v https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-suzuki-boulevard-OEM-FRONT-BRAKE-CALIPER-HOSES-LINES/202700953935?fits=Model%3ABoulevard%7CMake%3ASuzuki&hash=item2f31eb194f:g:TbQAAOSw3rRc-nlC https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-BOULEVARD-M109R-2006-08-10-12-2014-FRONT-BRAKE-LINES-STAINLESS-STEEL/302871840936?hash=item46849188a8:g:JGgAAOSwQS1bj-AB |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/03/19 at 11:37:23 Actually after mocking up my new risers and handlebars it's looking like I'll need a custom solution for brake lines. The required lengths have changed. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/03/19 at 14:49:49 This is the new setup. The risers are the same height and pullback as the OEM risers. But the handlebars are much wider with a little more pullback than the original dragbars. While riding my Ducati I realized that one big reason I can keep control of the bike during emergency stops is because the handlebars are wide like a dirtbikes. All that leverage is to your benefit with stupidly strong brakes. But these wide bars require all new hoses, cables and wiring. Yay! :o |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/03/19 at 14:50:30 A closer shot. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/06/19 at 16:00:11 Zero time all week for tinkering but I just did some test fits and measurements. With longer grips the bar controls come inboard enough that the wires and throttle cable reach fine at both steering stops. Clutch cable not quite. Magic number for brake line is 2.5 inches. Need to decide on 2-line or over the fender. I don't run a fender so that's easy. The Superbrace does not fit the Kwak forks. Close but no cigar so I'm thinking of heading to the machine shop again to see what they say about that. So I'm having the tire mounted to the Kwak wheel this weekend and ordering custom brake lines. And a longer clutch cable. Additionally I'm gonna bolt everything up for real and take a stab at getting the calipers put back together and mounted. So much for the picture. Apparently an error has occurred.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/07/19 at 10:54:31 Dropped the wheels and tires at the shop for mounting and balancing. Also left the calipers for him to remove the pistons from. I don't have an air compressor and no tools I could pull them out with without damaging them. Need to order the rebuild kits for them still. I need to write a checklist.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Fast 650 on 09/07/19 at 11:40:35 There is a way to get the pistons out without an air compressor. Swap the bleeder screw for a grease fitting and thread a bolt in where the brake line goes. Connect the grease gun and start pumping, it will force the pistons out. Just make sure that you remove all traces of the grease before you reassemble it afterwards so that the grease doesn't attack the seals. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/07/19 at 13:32:27 That's pretty inventive. In my case I wouldn't even be concerned for the seals since I'm replacing them anyway. I was thinking of trying to use my pressure washer but it prsented some safety concerns for me. Anyways while I'm waiting on the shop I have the time to wire wheel the caliper brackets and paint them. Even though I cleaned everything thoroughly these look crappy from discoloration of whatever surface treatment they originally had. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/07/19 at 14:33:31 Why not just use the master to pop them out? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/07/19 at 18:36:41 The original brake and cylinder was pulled off the bike intact and set aside as a backup. If need be I can slap it back on and be up and running again in minutes. That's just how I roll. Always have a rollback before proceeding. Always plan ahead. Always plan for the worst. I haven't done anything irreversible. Every nut and bolt accounted for. Each original part and assembly ready for use. And nothing wasted. Old habits from working on Navy jet fighters when I was in the service. It's also why I ask lots of dumb questions. The only truly dumb question is the one you didn't ask. :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/08/19 at 11:13:29 Ahhh so much better now.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/08/19 at 16:42:56 Ok I need help! I'm looking for a master cylinder with 5/8" bore for 1" bars. More specifically I'm trying to find which bikes with 1" bars have 5/8" bore MCs so I can get a cheap OEM takeoff and not spend an arm and a leg for some fancy gold plated, diamond crusted, gaudy thing for the discriminating Harley connoisseur. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by SpamyToo on 09/08/19 at 17:10:06 I imagine something for the Kawi Vulcan, Yam Vstar, or Suz Boulevard would work. black https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Front-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Clutch-Yamaha-XVS650-Vstar-Raider-Royal-Star-XV/401463493742?epid=20011715442&hash=item5d7916c46e&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&enc=AQAEAAADMKvsXIZtBqdkfsZsMtzFbFsbX3WcW5fmB%2Fx7ZbaZTyexY7OCDwLsOExH9BAEhj3eqGDfD2xJ5Y8hbwVVjBzjM07XVHUybnWA2i4P84FqDNFc0e42QqYq26kWznu75aj2Q%2BJCKrdLYzUp2l2T6A5Mxrr3YyfKvvyO2gMFcwzzlz7MU5bIPvrkzGzyNxCIhyxp%2FVJ1PLkVVUPEOMAmUr24ThWAQeekLKTfhCVT6J6dj9FbALKrMX5ia0HQGV3Bh7MLaUc2ZJYC%2BH8X%2B%2FfFOgJ65jopFf2P75pGVlP45QtzpKzbaCdJDrZxhx5WPRbcEK8ErzVVS8pUvbu2AnQ%2BkhxyQnsLx9a76Y0xFHhxiDz9JQJ275%2B2po02qoWhG6vy%2BJulJWMpd3OF53ZgJ6Ir7mtNBxCN4PVAv%2FGomJY7TlHEXtDLmlVPJsoW0bRORE7iWwtuyzGBU3zgcsHGsnAQlmn3zKARbzU5EnsYqs3SLdZYwUce7Zi38VbrNoiUfmvgaDmlMsYDq3nvQ2VAQrJZn%2BprNcKF%2BGeFplzbNPkB3%2B3SmMtf%2F1ZqeBdJRd%2Bi%2BeBcSCh0K%2BK1TXmuzYCYCitxRrMe2fMbGKxUG3eEXUVSUT%2Fs1M5uu4UxTUCwKmPXANM8bT93HUpQOkbPHoFKtA3Ghwk09MxicimYd8AE2flwSnHQKQApSGpARJ9705eiGH2EhWFzWkN2K6%2B%2BRVwQKkwC7vuiUk%2B6yVg3QSP8GtpPJr01FWNqV4fpa7Fmzly23WiQszrmmzYieU7qGw%2BxfzlhBmaCULtFfSxglfyDVseAD%2BD9r6bkIRI0SxTGaQva8X9rWMkfvqWn52g9RzzOhUzlQCbaN6%2F%2BgiSCQhWUzcQIo63FOJ5yjcJ6stHHKCVqf1vWyWV1zGcJCt9LKCl%2Bu7S7grdQqt%2BoWYFWHuUhXhcpYSdWBYXY%2BdvoZECTMsvZByheos%2Bc2CJ7KSbKlFz%2BYGfIQy6havKwmjeN5zCoxFjTYsJGqCr2P%2BIMTnANoxT1zg%2Fqhphimhw%2BhdMfEskD63JNPxRssurFVVIyJBblamwEOHAeifz%2Fyyiza1U1IIGjRrztcCgmog%3D%3D&checksum=40146349374281ac862a043d43ac9bf22dc7c30582ea chrome https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Clutch-Yamaha-XVS650-Vstar-Raider-Royal-V-Star-CHROME/272991066032?hash=item3f8f8917b0&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&enc=AQAEAAADMKvsXIZtBqdkfsZsMtzFbFsbX3WcW5fmB%2Fx7ZbaZTyexern%2FXRO8hKa0lWkSXVPDBIvDLZn439VEdJBytmX2FG3GOTGHuK4q%2BjABYUu%2B9cGpT4isxm0004wMioLcW0WQVIDVyeuYcI4GJFfqZfuxKaqlAKinrAp1rNCyHaPkOLtNxHjAHnmYOSfJDsikIfVZ8OOsAMCJNML8BYB%2FGwdg%2B0Y%2BuCUF7r5KpCnrimU5oIiWFITkZGuaqzzLr67U%2FH%2FGPBUGRN7jBnhskgeRJyo01J5WyfTBYSB5M2Yet7%2FmbJMKdNiiLjsxU9ui%2FWm2zWBkif73D9NcrzVHbHsFqzzp3aStGg%2FDjWXZptm%2BtbUYFtLehaeBsQMBuBZpY2UNt7ea2VsWAcgyH%2BS%2BfyhnMrIje8Garfliv99jCvMc8nyUHEwF6AsY3iriAhK%2B7MfyijSehETKYnV37Rm0xpT6n0jcsMyyg8ReTMLD%2BDwgugNdYpqqyS5PXZoHc%2FyG7zu6qZImOBAfLgelETbuVGZ0F%2Bf0Mvx6dBp%2BlT5qJlEqoOlCe9u31UgCLWuzgoJUNQ8Djnbnuex9Rn5nj973aCQDCQ9vvv3xVbSHuFLFY67tOy8TjvwCF%2BWCOOtaalieGFBfksL0CCA4YBjht1gOvB3aDGTz20x%2BQxsD5gaZ43x8Yah6SoXSJiGUVZa%2Fm5vr7gwPp9PC%2Bscvw0X6GG4KHoNVJFhDKxLkbPqQIgABtBYNXRfYjiooIEGBxifS%2Bovh%2F0tr6XsWJx%2BDgN%2F9oGvgJ3G2KBAWebCsh7dPvl%2BhOZ1yPu8ZtD01542OmEzyjpKVRykysBfEDvnBRa1ATUFUNjBMEMrznCHHf4aEg862vRLz17GwJPGAYafgUeR1cHAx3l7t1Qr9kph9Rdi66SBF3xrSwp0ddXZZWPDYL6tDgUGcjDmnSV7zh58IFTi%2BtLz%2FmNpmdGrSPNnxXYklv9h1M3Bb0jDkn5jwLmKFFEwpF1OV5Ocr2PmFEe5Urojc9ZZqawVqDGaky9OpmhPqmwLJRrVX3WxssjmjavTsK1Ew5tR%2FeFqqc2gPlMAHhpFP5ZRGEAUtPHlPcg%3D%3D&checksum=2729910660328d3c0b641fb344c2a4c0844ec9dd47ae |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/08/19 at 18:26:51 Cool! Thanks. I also discovered that the MC from a Suzuki Boulevard VL1500 C90 also fits the bill. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/09/19 at 16:08:25 This is more to help me keep track than anything. Wheels are done, picking them up tomorrow. Master cylinder ordered and shipped, coming Friday. Rebuild kit for calipers ordered and shipped, here Friday. Tried measurements for custom hoses but pointless until new MC arrives. Need to remember to ask shop guy about hoses because he might get them cheaper. Need to email machine shop about Superbrace mod. Once wheels are back need to assemble back brake and pulley hub bearing. That reminds me, order cush drive rubbers... And 16 other things leak through the sieve known as my brain.... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Dave on 09/09/19 at 17:49:32 Look at Venhill USA for brake hoses. You can order the color, length, and fittings you want. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/09/19 at 21:48:38 3129282D3529382C282A24410 wrote:
got a bunch of them, ryca take offs. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/10/19 at 06:57:54 283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote:
got a bunch of them, ryca take offs.[/quote] Ok then, I'd like to buy your used rubbers sir ;) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/10/19 at 06:58:56 556E6374656972746F676A75060 wrote:
I'm checking them out. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/19 at 07:52:57 736B6A6F776B7A6E6A6866030 wrote:
got a bunch of them, ryca take offs.[/quote] Ok then, I'd like to buy your used rubbers sir ;)[/quote] I'll see what box 6 will fit, but I think it'll be the medium flat rate. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/10/19 at 09:25:12 Ok then, I'd like to buy your used rubbers sir Wink Filed in the Things I can't unsee cabinet. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/10/19 at 12:15:59 4C5355524F4879497941535F14260 wrote:
;D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/10/19 at 12:17:50 2D3E2928373A3C3E356A5B0 wrote:
got a bunch of them, ryca take offs.[/quote] Ok then, I'd like to buy your used rubbers sir ;)[/quote] I'll see what box 6 will fit, but I think it'll be the medium flat rate.[/quote] Ok great. Do you need my PayPal addy again? If you still have can you please send a payment request? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/19 at 13:33:30 3F2726233B27362226242A4F0 wrote:
got a bunch of them, ryca take offs.[/quote] Ok then, I'd like to buy your used rubbers sir ;)[/quote] I'll see what box 6 will fit, but I think it'll be the medium flat rate.[/quote] Ok great. Do you need my PayPal addy again? If you still have can you please send a payment request?[/quote] I'll see what I can find. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/12/19 at 15:57:31 Nevermind about the rubbers. Nothing wrong with ones I've got. Sure glad I went for wider bars. This MC is huge! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/19 at 16:13:48 Dammit, I found them, put them in a box, $8 for shipping $2 to cover the fleas My internet died last night or I would've sent you the invoice already. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/12/19 at 16:28:53 Alright no problem. I'll get them and package them with the OEM rear wheel I'll be putting up for sale. Speaking of which I've got a crapload of stuff for sale in the marketplace. And that list is about grow considerably. Get it cheap now before I Ebay it all. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/19 at 19:42:51 Naw, jk. You got what you need, that's what counts. But really if anybody need a box of used rubber dampers for the rear pulley, I got 'm... $10 domestic. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/13/19 at 09:47:44 It's cool I'll still buy them. When I put my old rear wheel up I can bundle it with the driven pulley hub and rubbers as a package. Here's a pic of Thumpys new shoes. Coating that front wheel is gonna have to wait for now. darn shame but I can't afford another 5 weeks waiting for the powder coating place. Need to wrap this project up by October.... The tubeless tire need is now satisfied. :) I think Thumpy needs name changed to Thumpenstein :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 10:06:24 Like uh muh gawd, ewwwww Becky! Gross me out the door gag me with a spoon! :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 10:32:26 After an entire can of brake cleaner, then scrubadub with scotch brite and toothbrush using Dawn and 150 degrees water. And using a small allen key for the seats for the seals and the fluid orfices. I can't believe these were advertised as tested good considering the grunge and conditions of the old seals. For shame. These motorcycle salvage places really don't give a rats butt if you die from the parts that they peddle as safe but aren't at all. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 10:46:57 These all purdy now. Masked off the slide pins as to not get paint on them. Debating whether or not to paint the caliper bodies.... Also wanted to share this very instructive article. https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30304 |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 11:51:32 This has me worried. There's a good deal of corrosion in the seal seats and between the two seals. Scotchbrite is only doing so much and I fear the risk of scratching the cylinder walls with anything rougher. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 11:54:32 On the bright side the pistons are in good condition and have no corrosion. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 15:53:20 Curiosity got the better of me so I rolled up and down the alley way bouncing up and down like an idiot. The front suspension feels good. Better than before with a sporty firmness. Amazing how light it feels without a gas tank :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 09/29/19 at 16:00:18 Time to finally put on the brakes. Had a moment of pause though. Measuring from the upper caliper mount on the fork to the outside of the rotors came up with different measures. 14mm on the right and 12.5mm on the left. I nearly freaked out but there's alot of possibilities here and the measuring technique was tongue in cheek at best. Still have some wiring work yet but throttle and clutch cables are sorted out. The rotors have just about had it. Bought the cheapest ones just for the purpose of fitment. Didn't expect them to be usable and I don't think they are. Soooo time to cough up money again. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/01/19 at 18:46:23 The salvage parts blues have struck again. One of the fork seals is leaking. Had feeling that would happen. Not very much though so I'm going to ignore it for now. Talked to the mechanic at the shop and he says the rotors might be alright. I'm gonna take them over and let him be the judge. Wow! They say don't cheap out on brake parts but man those stainless steel banjo fittings hurt. Ouch! At least I have the peace of mind knowing that they will survive the winter. With all the other stainless hardware I've put on the bike it'll all match at least. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/05/19 at 08:46:02 Venhill certainly makes some impressive brake lines! Excellent customer service too! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/06/19 at 14:17:27 Calipers rebuilt and mounted. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/06/19 at 14:20:05 Tight clearance in there! Once the calipers self center it should be more even. Next I finish the plumbing. And then hopefully ride the thing! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/06/19 at 15:11:03 Maybe instead of Thumpenstein I should just call it The Homer :D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by DragBikeMike on 10/06/19 at 19:28:05 Mike, those pinchers are lookin way cool, and mighty factory too. Nice job. Can't wait to hear how it works. Do you happen to know the difference in weight between the donor bike and the stock Savage? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/07/19 at 05:58:42 Thanks Mike. I found specs saying 524.7 pounds dry for the ZL900. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by DragBikeMike on 10/07/19 at 15:23:16 Oh my! Those pinchers should absolutely get the job done. Hold tight bruddah. :o |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/07/19 at 17:18:03 Traffic I ride in I guessed to be safe I'd need twice as much braking power than I originally had. My Hyperstrada has dual 320mm with 4 piston calipers with a wet weight of 450 lbs. By comparison I'll have 260mm with single pistons and a wet weight of roughly 340 lbs. To be honest I'm not expecting too much from these old brakes which are nearly identical to the OEM Savage brake. Certainly nothing mindblowing or dangerous and I doubt they'll even come close to the Ducatis Brembos performance wise. But the next Jersey driver who lane jumps right in front of me at 55 when I'm doing 80 won't necessitate swerving onto the shoulder to avoid rear ending him. I hope. I need this bike to meet the demands of my traffic environment. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 14:58:46 So October turned out to be madness on all fronts as I expected it to. I wanted to be done before madness struck but Murphy's Law was in full effect as freaking usual. Today was the only day for weeks now I managed to make time for my bike and that's only because I shirked other duties. Took care of lots of small details. Did the plumbing and put the bike back together. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 15:03:12 DragbikeMike had me thinking with his comments about that OEM look. So I decided to keep the primitive and clunky crackpipe. But didn't want to drill my triple tree for it. So I fabbed another back-alley special. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 15:03:59 Another angle. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 15:06:27 Here's the installation with plumbing. Makes me think of a bowtie. ;D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 15:20:02 Here's Thumpy fully clothed with his dignity restored again. Yes I rode around but front brakes are still inop. Steering, handling and suspension all very nice. Improved significantly. But problems. Caliper side pads drag because they are cocked at an angle. For the life of me I couldn't put the calipers on without them tilting. Will this correct itself when the pistons actuate? Will those pads straighten out or have I got some weird ass problem here? The left side brake line is fairly tight for unknown reasons. I added 3/4" to the length of the OEM Eliminator brake lines but something is different. Can I get longer banjo fittings or do I need to get new lines all over again? There's a 1/4" difference between left and right lower lines even though I ordered them the same length. Finally, I cannot find out anywhere how high the Eliminators forks sit above to top clamp. No pictures show this and nothing in the service manual. How do I know how high up to set the forks in the clamps? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/27/19 at 15:25:13 And finally here's Thumpy being adored by his bratty younger sister from Italy :D Also I think I may have reached my ideal chrome to black ratio... |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 10/30/19 at 18:34:31 No thanks to folks here I got it sorted out. Thumpy rides again! |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by ohiomoto on 10/31/19 at 07:31:56 2139383D2539283C383A34510 wrote:
-------------------------- :-? :-? I thought you had a lot of people offering help??? :-? :-? Anyway, I take it you figured out your pad issues and it's all working now? How do you like it? Was it worth tie effort? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/18/20 at 16:27:08 I like it very much. I have braking performance comparable to my Ducati now. If grab alot of lever (like the original brake requires) the front wheel locks up. So I retrained my myself to only use 2 fingers. There's excellent feedback now which makes it easy to feel when I'm overdoing things. Even my Ducati doesn't have such good brake feedback in the lever. This weekend I just ordered brand new rotors and pads. The worn out used parts I got originally were the cheapest I could find just for the purpose of fitment testing and the rotors are badly worn so that the pads don't make even contact. So now I'm upgrading stuff as needed/desired to formalize the change now that it's thoroughly burned in. Not as thrilled with the suspension. Braking is a night and day difference but not the case with the springs. Quite a bit of dive. I'm going to swap a heavier weight oil in after conversations with ZL900 Eliminator owners. I'm told this is a worthwhile improvement for little money and effort. After that if I'm still not happy I can choose to upgrade to progressive springs. As it is now there's not alot of difference from stock forks. But when I get cutoff doing 80 on the interstate I don't need to swerve off onto the shoulder anymore to avoid rear-ending. This sucker sheds speed fast now. I think the last and missing piece now is fork bracing. It needs it now. The only ZL900 brace I've seen was stupid money. So I'm going to take the Savage fork brace I bought before swapping the front end and get it machined to fit the ZL forks. I could probably do it with my belt sander but I don't want to risk messing up the expensive brace. The shop will probably only need a 1/4 hour for the job. Not much material needs removed - like 1mm at most. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/18/20 at 16:53:31 I’m glad it’s working for you. Good mod. Progressive rate springs will introduce more brake dive, not less. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/18/20 at 17:42:52 3933373D363F3B326C6A6E5E0 wrote:
Egads! In that case I hope the heavier fork oil works as promised. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/18/20 at 18:39:09 I take that back. Progressive rate springs have the POTENTIAL to increase the brake dive and slow speed dive. It depends on the initial rate. If the initial rate is lower than what you currently have, you’ll have more dive. A heavier oil will help correct with the damping associated with brake dive, but it will also make the forks harsh over high-speed bumps and sharp bumps. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/18/20 at 18:49:56 At least if the oil change makes it too harsh it's easy enough to go back to the factory recommended one. I have not yet tried putting air in the forks because I never got around to buying a suitable hand pump. Could increased pressure help here? From reading stuff in the Eliminator forum I got the impression that adding air pressure is only useful for riding two up. So tinkering with this hasn't been important since nobody has wanted to be a pillion since the bike has been back on the road. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by eau de sauvage on 04/18/20 at 19:09:33 7F6766637B67766266646A0F0 wrote:
When I did my first motorcycle course with the original directors of the Stay Upright riding school in 1984 one of the first practical lessons was to find the lock up point on the front wheels, but to find that point you have to lock the front wheel which is something we so instinctively don't want to do that we were told a story of professional racing riders testing BMW's revolutionary ABS systems for bikes and every pro rider thought that it could not best them and they were amazed to find that they themselves were not at the limit when they thought they were. So in order to prove to us mortals that a front wheel lock up will not necessarily bring you down Graham Forlonge, came down the straight at a pretty decent clip and locked the font wheel at 60kph or maybe faster and smoked it to a stop with the wheel burning the rubber the entire length of the braking. So now they proved what is possible, we were asked to keep squeezing the font brake till it locked and what we were tasked to do was to learn to instantly release the pressure on it at the instant it locked. The point was to know what it feels like just before it locks and there's only one way to find that out. So that in a genuine emergency brake, when you either hold the bike right at the point of lock up or you die. Hopefully no one is ever in that situation. But it saved my life once when I had to do just that, when an extra long semi trailer did a sudden turn. I don't have the courage to do this in the wet though. https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/police-motorcyclists-to-try-for-round-australia-endurance-news-photo/1081402144 |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/18/20 at 19:39:10 Yes very good point about the wet. I've intentionally locked the wheel at various speeds and still doing it so I can get the feeling for what amount of pull is the threshold at different speeds. It takes more pull the higher the speed. Road surface is another factor. Eventually with practice it will become instinctive. But I haven't done it on wet roads yet. I'm sure I'll be wishing for my Ducks ABS then. :o |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/23/20 at 13:59:43 Fork oil change is a success. Less braking dive than my Ducati and much less than old Suzuki forks. Rode down bad roads and dirt roads intentionally aiming at the gnarliest potholes I could find and there's only harshness at parking lot speeds. At highway speeds it just floats. Beats the Suzuki forks by far. New rotors and pads coming tomorrow. Will be good to go soon. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 04/29/20 at 09:05:57 Rotors got lost in the mail awhile but finally turned up. The pads got here awhile ago. I've never done bedding in with new rotors and pads at the same time. Anything different in the process compared to only new pads? |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by srinath on 04/30/20 at 16:23:20 I got a complete eli 1000 that threw a rod on #3 - complete bike and another eli 1k with an unknown (likely starter clutch) problem I plan on getting back alive some day. You think the rear wheel off the eli will also fit - 900 and 1000 are same AFAIK. I slid the forks off a maxim 700 - or virago don't recall - that did slide in but not the same spacing. It was maybe 1/2 too wide - IMHO not a useable combo. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/01/20 at 14:56:03 Eli has shaft drive. While the rear wheel is the same diameter as the LS650 I can't imagine any way to convert the hub to a belt pulley or sprocket. If you can machine a custom hub adapter it might be possible but the wheel may be too wide anyway. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by srinath on 05/01/20 at 15:23:40 283031342C30213531333D580 wrote:
Right - That's true.It also may be too wide to go in the swingarm of the savage - but if the shaft was the only issue - the ninja 1000 wheel rear would be an option - I again think that's also too wide though. BTW there is a metzler 200 size tire I think it was an ME880, that fits the eli - man would that have been awesome. As rare as an eli 9/1000 is - at one time I had 5 of them, 4 that ran and 1 for parts. Now just 2. One that may run and 1 for parts. The eli parts are heavy as the dickens. That's my biggest pet peeve about them. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/01/20 at 16:06:12 I'd actually looked around at Ninja front wheels and they looked to be compatible with Eli forks/axles but in the end I decided such a small front wheel wouldn't be a good idea. Already lose an inch diameter from the LS650 front wheel with the Eli wheel. Also looked at Ninja forks but they're 1 mm larger than the Eli. I thought the anti-dive feature might be a good idea. I am using the Ninja calipers though. They fit on the Eli caliper bracket perfectly. The Ninja brackets don't fit Eli forks though. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by srinath on 05/01/20 at 16:25:31 Naaa ninja rear wheel - no ninja stuff even in 87 was better than eli crap. They threw on the heaviest pigs onto - well the concourse. That sucker they made all the way to 2006. Anyway eli people love the concourse. Easy supply of 1/2 decent parts. Anyway I have no idea about the ninja parts of that era - just a guess the rear wheel matched the front - but no clue. In any case - awesome project, May do it - but savage IMHO needs to lose that ridiculous offset in the triples - else it will handle like an overloaded wheel barrow. So, I've got a different mountain to climb. Eli or no eli. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/01/20 at 16:55:45 I was also researching the Concourse for compatible pieces, forks mostly but ruled them out for one reason or another. Don't remember specifically. The top bridge I got from DC Moto does alot to remedy wheelbarrow effect. I'm still playing around with the height of the forks in the tree. Now that the suspension is firmer due to heavier oil I need to make one more adjustment. Still out to lunch on the front tire size I chose... If you choose to do a Savage like I did let me know if you need further details. Otherwise good luck getting your Eli back together. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by srinath on 05/02/20 at 07:43:05 How does the DC moto upper triple affect the wheelbarrow quality. Of course you can shorten the forks. It would reduce the offset a bit. Eli forks in the savage triple - unlikely. I am really wanting to cut that offset in 1/2 atleast. A tank swap would do it. The stupid thing is - the savage is so easy to swap a front end - almost any Suzuki, kawi etc from the 80's and 90's will work. GS500, Katana 600 etc etc. Just swap the stem and the whole FE will drop in and get you twin disks if you used a FE with twins. But they will all clobber the tank. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/02/20 at 08:30:13 I had no requirement for changing the offset. My main requirement was a swap that is within my technical ability - an easy job. All accomplished with basic hand tools mostly. I looked at moving the tank back to accommodate the Marauder FE but decided I didn't want the potential headache of rewiring the speedo/idiot lights assy. Fitting a different tank opens lots of possibilities for FE swaps but also necessitates a load of rewiring and relocating. But if you're inclined to expend the efforts then more power to you. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by srinath on 05/03/20 at 07:22:09 36352039353A606C540 wrote:
Oddly this doesn't happen - or in other words twin calipers and the master cyl that belongs to that setup don't get you unintended stoppies. In effect I replace GS500 FE's with Katana 600 ones going from 2 piston single caliper to Dual opposed piston twin caliper - so goes from 2 pistons to 8. The brakes feel smooth and predictable and stoppies are only if you're really trying. Removing 1 caliper could get you a brake setup that loses all feel. Rather it gets too abrupt. Almost like a light switch. But post back with your observations. Your calipers are only 1 piston each. You're going from 1 piston to 2 basically. I'd use the kawi parts all across and the side effect may be that your brake pads and disks wear out - like never. On a GS 10K you'd eat the pad - mainly the static pad, and 20K you'd eat a rotor. Katana FE's typically on a GS - well, I've never changed them and in 7K or so they don't look anywhere near needing a change. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/09/20 at 10:02:52 Just showing off the new rotors I put on last week. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/09/20 at 10:05:48 And here's the height I raised the forks this time around. Have not tested yet. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Psydton3 on 05/13/20 at 05:20:18 I can't wait to see the completed project. It looks awesome. ;D |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/13/20 at 10:25:48 5C7F75687863623F0C0 wrote:
Thank you! 8-) With the new rotors and pads it's completed now. I've spent a couple months and a few hundred miles of shakedown rides to get here now where I'm just tying up loose ends and making last minute adjustments and improving on questionable used parts. It's a done deal. I'll get some more pictures up eventually when I'm done fighting with clutch and my own clumsy bolt breaking blunders. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by philthymike on 05/16/20 at 17:29:48 Pads and rotors are bedded in now. Now the bike stops even faster and with no more locking up the wheel. I guess the worn out rotors were the reason for that locking up. Now I just get an occasional chirp but no extended skidding. Heavier fork oil greatly reduced the diving and a much less pogo stick type ride. Fork height in the clamps is 15mm now and I'm happy with how the steering tracks. This height seems to be the magic number for the wheel and tire. As of 17171 miles this part of the project is done. |
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Title: Re: Gentlemen Behold: Dual Disc Front End for LS65 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/17/20 at 05:12:25 You couldn't wait an extra tenth of a mile to take that photo? Where's your sense of order? |
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