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Message started by FlyingH on 07/31/19 at 14:08:06

Title: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 07/31/19 at 14:08:06

I have had many bikes, all Europeans except one Yamaha.
At my old ages I bought a Suzuki s40, nice, only 370 pounds and I do like one cylinders, reminding me of my earlier years riding one cylinder English bikes. (Had one problem oil leaks)
My best bikes were BMW's, first a 500cc, after that the 600cc, put a total of 30,000 miles on them.
Never had any of the problems a read on this website. Tune-ups, I did took about 1.5 hrs,- 2.0 hrs. carburetor, timing, valve adjustment and oil change. I realize now how nice it was when everything is so accessible.
I also understand the Savage is an inexpensive bike, but I can't say that I am impressed with the quality and the lack of improvements over the years.

Sorry, if I hurt the feeling of some of your hard-core Tumblers who seem to like tinkering with this bike as much as riding.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Dave on 07/31/19 at 15:33:12

You have not hurt my feelings - we all wish that Suzuki would do some updates and fix the issues that we have all learned are problematic (petcock, cam chain tensioner, crappy headlight, head plug leak, TEV valve that does not work well).

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by LANCER on 07/31/19 at 16:23:32

Doesn’t hurt my feelings either.
I just like this bike, I like the engine, even with all those things we have altered to make it run better and be more dependable. I still like it.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Serowbot on 07/31/19 at 17:16:57

Did we just get drive-by'ed?... ;D

Just kidding,.. but I like a bike that stays pretty much unchanged for 30 years,... plenty of available parts, and experienced mechanical advice.
Suzuki knows we're gonna' make our Savages the way we want them anyway.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by MMRanch on 07/31/19 at 20:28:09

I like "Simple" and this bike is Simple . The cam chain tension thing is an easy fix , and so is the petcock . After that ... your good for 150,000 of trouble free ridding !

Well , except for Tires and I do change my oil every 10,000 miles weather it needs it or not ... :)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by WunGun on 07/31/19 at 22:52:03

I'm also glad the bike remains unchanged because that's where the charm comes from. Its a simple far outdated, outclassed and out styled machine that makes nostalgia for an old style and old feeling bike accessible. Its cool that if anything goes wrong with it I have 30 years of parts available without having to diagnose compatibility between years. Would I want all bikes to follow this pattern? No but I am glad this one does as I cant think of any other bike that can claim that.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by jcstokes on 08/01/19 at 01:08:59

I still enjoy mine, although I don't touch the mechanics of it. It's a fun little thing, In another 4700 miles or so, I might even get a Serowbot bronze award. It's good for short legged people, I brought it because I liked the clour, style and price.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by ohiomoto on 08/01/19 at 06:03:52

You correctly pointed out that this bike is inexpensive. The Suzuki can be had new for less than most used BMWs. You mentioned that you are not impressed, but didn't actually share your first impressions, good and bad. I'd be interested in those.

Keep in mind, not everyone wants a modern bike. The LS650 might be new, but modern it's not. It's inexpensive, reliable and easy to work on. That's why I picked this bike over all others for a custom build (I don't even like "cruisers"). I didn't want some ugly "modern" bike. If Triumph was still making 1960's or 1970's singles or twins with proper gaskets, seals, and electronic ignition for the price or the Savage, I would buy one tomorrow.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by engineer on 08/01/19 at 11:40:51

I'm also "old", in my seventies and I bought my first bike when I was twelve. All my early bikes were German, Italian, Austrian and British and I remember them well partly because I still have an old BMW R60 and my buddy still has a 500 and a 650 Triumph. You know what I remember, they weren't all that great in terms of reliability and maintenance. Control cables that broke, dim lights, hard starts, flooded carbs, frequent valve adjustments, frequent timing adjustment, weak spark, frequent spark plug cleaning/replacement, heavy vibration, oil leaks, short bulb life, short chain life, lousy oil seals, etc.

I loved them just the same and still do, but my S40 is a lot less work and has never failed to start and always brings me home again.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/01/19 at 15:44:58

[quote author=56445644495A5558531B0 link=1564607286/0#4 date=1564630089]I like "Simple" and this bike is Simple . The cam chain tension thing is an easy fix , and so is the petcock . After that ... your good for 150,000 of trouble free ridding !

Well , except for Tires and I do change my oil every 10,000 miles weather it needs it or not ... :)

Change oil every 10,000 "miles" and you are good for 150,000 "Wath" yards?

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Serowbot on 08/01/19 at 16:12:11

I used to change oil every 1500 miles when I first got the bike. (old school)
...but they do say oil is much better now, and I'm not only cheap but environmental...
I go 3500 to 4000 miles now.
Harley recommends 5,000,.. I think Suzuki is up 7,500 or 8,000.

I'm not That environmental... Yet... ;D

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by jcstokes on 08/01/19 at 17:03:51

The handbook recommends 6000km or 4000miles.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by MMRanch on 08/02/19 at 07:57:10

Change oil every 10,000 "miles" and you are good for 150,000 "Wath" yards?

NO Silly , ;D

Put in Rotella T-6 and measure in miles . Ain't nothing hard about it . ;)

That stuff is STILL SLICK when ya drain it out next year , you've been missing out if you haven't discovered it yet .

Keep your idle speed up so the head don't get starved for oil and you can't kill these bikes , unless your really doing something stupid .

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Eegore on 08/02/19 at 09:59:39

Most of the people I have had on this bike do not like it. Of the people that do it is primarily females as it's low stance allows them to put both feet on the ground.

There is usually an expectation of more improvements from my 1999's to the current 2019's. Most people when they see it's mostly the wiring that changed do seem to question why other things like the petcock and tensioner are still the same after all these years.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by MMRanch on 08/02/19 at 17:11:27

Most of the people I have had on this bike do not like it. _

Funny , but most of the folks I know just Love this little bike . :-?

I did have a feller ask me once , "You've got a Harley , why do you ride that thing " , the assure was easy and very quick --- "Because this bike is a lot more FUN ! " :)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Matchless G11 on 08/02/19 at 18:04:14

No hurt feeling. I like my savage in the ryca format. For many years I viewed that savage as "what is t nice motor like that doing in a cruiser?"
Ryca came along and changed that. I just wish I had mid controls.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Serowbot on 08/02/19 at 18:04:17

I find that a lot of the big cruiser, mostly Harley guys, snub their noses at it a bit,.. but I get thumb's up from a lot of crotch rocket guys, and I've had people in cars roll down their windows to ask about it.
I think people see it as a friendly bike,... not intimidating.
I like that 8-)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Hiko on 08/02/19 at 20:24:39

I have found also that people see it as a friendly bike
So did I when I looked around for years before I finally decided at 77 to get back into a bike just for fun
I liked the no frills simple design If a cylinder is misfiring I know which one it is! (hasnt happened yet], easy to work on, great forum support,
After over a year and 6000 kms it still brings a smile to my face
One of the better things I have done.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/19 at 20:31:04

We all know what it ain't..
It's what it is that we like enough to overlook everything it ain't.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by norm92de on 08/02/19 at 21:25:02

That pretty much sums it up Justin. :)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Ruttly on 08/02/19 at 21:32:05

Well put JOG !
It's more about enjoying the ride and not so much about getting there first.
Just Thumpin n Smiling down some back country roads , ya know that old school thing. 8-)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by verslagen1 on 08/03/19 at 11:04:41

4B6B69617C6B0E0 wrote:

There is usually an expectation of more improvements from my 1999's to the current 2019's. Most people when they see it's mostly the wiring that changed do seem to question why other things like the petcock and tensioner are still the same after all these years.

The petcock won't change because this is intended to be a beginner bike in this market and not having to turn on/off the petcock is a positive for them.

But the tensioner really is a shame they haven't even added the pin and slot to prevent the bike from blowing up. It's a simple mod and wouldn't cost much.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/03/19 at 12:32:35

MMRANCH.
ENGINEER.
Your are an optimist in thinking you will get trouble free150,000 miles with any oil.
(I am using T6 since my first oil change because I know it is one of the best) Any time you have an engine that uses the same oil for its gearbox, changing the oil at 10,000 miles is a mistake.
But good luck anyway and keep us posted!

Engineer: This bike is “NOT” easy to work on!
Had to check the fluid in the battery, took me 1 hr. including fighting with that stupid “O” ring in the toolbox cover. Bike came new running so lean I had to change the pilot yet, took my 1.5 hrs. Check my earlier posting how long it took to do a total tune-up on my R60.

Ps: You void your warranty by not changing at the recommended 4,000 miles oil change.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by jcstokes on 08/03/19 at 12:56:32

When I brought mine, a Warrant of Fitness, safety inspector that I know said "what did you buy one of those things for?" I didn't say much, but 45000 miles later I still enjoy it. FlyingH, if you ever go for a gel battery make sure it goes in the battery box, without a struggle, I tried this once, the battery wentwo thirds of the way in and I spent half an hour getting it out.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/19 at 16:58:08

the battery wentwo thirds of the way in and I spent half an hour getting it out.

That's nothing.
Last time I stuck my foot in my mouth, it went all the way in, to the ankle, and took days to get out.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Ruttly on 08/03/19 at 17:03:14

JOG , You may need a breath mint ! ;D

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/19 at 17:06:04

I got some special lozenges from the people who make Tinactin. You have never suffered until you've had athletes mouth.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Ruttly on 08/03/19 at 17:12:56

Good job FlyingH , I haven't seen all of SS's heavy hitters on one topic in a long time and I'm sure more will chime in on this one. It's too bad the battery box got the best of you but it made for entertaining reading , practice makes perfect. ;D

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Ruttly on 08/03/19 at 17:18:58

Fast actin Tinactin !

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by MMRanch on 08/03/19 at 18:28:12

Mine only has about 50,000 miles on it now , but it don't use any oil between changes . I paid $1500.oo for it with 3,000 miles on it .

We're all entitled to have an opinion , mines is : if the oil is still slick don't worry about changing it . ;)

Keep it Simple best ya can , and don't fret so much about the little stuff . 8-)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/04/19 at 11:54:18

MMRanch, engines started to last longer when they separated the gearbox from the engine (because it beats the hell out off the engine oil). The viscosity of gear oil and engine oil is very different from each other gear oil is much thicker than engine oil. Now the both last longer!
T6 oil in your gearbox would not perform as good as gear oil.

Again, keep us posted!

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by batman on 08/04/19 at 13:38:13

The Savage ( 1995) is the first and only bike I ever purchased new , and I've ridden it ever since , so I guess it made a lasting impression on me .I can't say the other eight have.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/04/19 at 19:19:53

Batman, how many miles do you have on this 1995 Savage?
Did you made any improvements on it over the years?
We like to know more about it!

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by batman on 08/04/19 at 23:25:33

I don't have as many as I'd like but I have 37,500 (Not my only bike) I can't count the improvements . The most radical ,is the fact that at 17000 miles I did a tensioner mod extending it like Versy as it was out 19mm, but I then removed the pau and the tiny spring below it, turning it into a spring loaded shock. I figured if the piston was allowed to retract it had no chance to stretch the chain . the chain was already Half stretched , I was told that it would cause a meltdown ,but that was 20,000 miles ago and I'm still running the factory original chain. It's only stretched about 3mm in the last 20,000miles ,if the Guides hold out I'm thinking about another 20,000 . I've also installed a custom intake ,made from 1 1/2 "PVC pipe and custom air filters ,all inside the stock air box . the motor is stock, except for carb mods and Stock HD Dyna muffler, You can look for topic (search) "tuning you intake " It is the easiest way to gain added performance ,without expensive piston/cylinder mods. I'm running 34 horsepower ,92 miles per hour. on E 87 GAS . with HD sportster front fender HD rear fender ,sportster bars and small saddle bags . two place mustang sportster seat. and taller passenger back rest, 11.5" Progressive shocks which decreased my steering angle) , I done at least 6 different mods to the Stock CV carb. It has a small eagles head on the front fender ,the head light is on a custom bracket and sets above the handle bars . and it has a 1938 HD bee hive tail light . the passenger pegs a shifted '8 "forward of their normal location . As I'm old school it only has two colors, black & chrome. It's flat black ,Walmart's best spray can bed liner paint ,no waxing ,no sun bouncing in you eyes, and it's oil and gas resistant, I'm to busy riding to be bothered shining it. Half the people ask what kind of bike it is , and the other half just guess .I ride in a group once in a while ,mostly big HD's after they follow me thru a couple of triple S bends dragging their running boards ,they quit asking why I ride that small bike.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Dave on 08/05/19 at 04:20:13

2D3725410 wrote:

I don't agree with this philosophy......old Triumphs/Nortons had the gearbox and engine oil seperate, and they were lucky to go 20,000 miles without needing engine work.

Most modern motorcycles share the engine sump and gearbox, with the same oil being used to lubricate both. These modern engine/gearbox combinations can last for hundreds of thousands of miles......extreme examples can go 200k and still be running without a rebuild (a courier in the UK got 500K on his Honda ST1100 without a rebuild.....and some ST forum members have more than 400K without a rebuild).
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/highest-mileage-st1100.115490/

The secret is using a good oil, changing on a regular schedule.....and going on long rides on a regular basis (vehicles that are used exclusively for short trips around town will never reach those high miles). The Honda Goldwing, Yamaha FJR, BMW boxers, Harley's and other large touring motorcycles can get very high mileage on a regular basis. One Kawasaki 250 Ninja member got 86,000 miles out of his original engine until the cam chain just got too long and the tensioner was out of travel.......the engine still ran fine except for the cam chain rattle. Well maintained motorcycles can go a very long time without issues....poorly maintained motorcycles can be broken in very short order (I bought a 3,800 mile Savage that needed the cam and rockers replaced).

It could be that gear oil might work better in a gearbox than motor oil - but the motorcycle gearbox was designed to use engine oil for lubrication, and gearbox failures are extremely rare. The metal/metal contact of the gears might create more "junk" in the oil as the gears wear - however once they are broken in the gears really don't show that they are wearing or rubbing off metal to any degree. On Youzguyz 160,000 mile Savage engine everything was in spec but the valve guides - the piston/cylinder, cam, rockers, etc. was all in spec and reused - the valves,guides and piston rings were replaced.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by youzguyz on 08/05/19 at 04:27:07

2B3123470 wrote:

I am curious as to what you consider to be "trouble free". Or, to say it another way, what do you consider to be oil related "trouble"?

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by youzguyz on 08/05/19 at 04:32:26

I post something.. (which I don't do often anymore), then turn around and Dave just mentioned me.
So, I'm sure the next questions will be about my oil "habits".

Rotella T6
Sometimes as often as every 5,000 miles, sometimes as much as 10,000 miles. Usually around 8,000 miles.
And... it looks like I am overdue. again.. CRAP.
On both bikes.. DOUBLE crap.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/19 at 05:04:48

Ah, the smell of hot oil in the morning .......

;D

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Ruttly on 08/05/19 at 09:07:25

This is beginning to sound like , kinda sorta with a newbie and all a

OIL WAR

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/05/19 at 10:14:15

This Newbie is using Rotella T6. So it is not a question of what, but when!
We don't need more wars and special not about oil.

Are you trying to?

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/05/19 at 10:34:51

Reply #34 Dave,

Honda and other brands still using special gear oil and for similar reasons as I stated.
For your info: one of the many links regarding gearbox oils.
https://www.motosport.com/pro-honda-hp-transmission-oil?variant[PHO000G]=PHO000G-X001-Y001

Seems like we all have our own experiences and opinions.

Life is good! ;

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/19 at 11:06:06

The top end of our motor is why we use the oils we use.
That's the area that requires a level of protection that oils for more modern engine designs don't do well.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/19 at 11:17:02

;D Me, provoke or aggravate an oil war that was inadvertently started up by a newbie?

"Nevermore", saith the Raven.

Surely you jest ......

Rotella T6 is good oil, good enough for an annual or yearly change interval especially if backed up with special filtration (supermagnet ferrous separation).

The base oil and the additive packages contained in T6 are not weak, and some of us bump T6 up some anyway because we like enough additives sitting in the sump to replace whatever gets scrubbed off even very late in the oil change cycle.

I really don't think we need another oil war, as we do have correct Recommended Oils http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 sitting over in Technical Documents which has everything in it that a newbie needs to know.

Now, if the newbie was saying something silly, we'd correct it, but he is not saying anything that isn't pretty much gospel (seems to have better common sense than many of the new persons come in with).

Dave is beginning to think that because of the carbide inserts Suzuki put in the most modern tappet followers, we might could back off on the old oil recommendations, but I keep pointing out we have lots of bikes here on the list that PREDATE those fancy tappet followers and those older style valve trains are running simple case hardened steel parts that certainly DO NEED need the higher levels of oil additives that are included in Recommended Oils http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565

And there is a point where you have to say yet again, putting in the full T6 packages and bumping on top of it may NOT be needed in every case, but "the old specs" so far has not shown any harm being done to the fancy new parts --- and it helps keep those thrashy gears in the tranny all happy to boot as they got no fancy hard stuff added to them.

Plus having lots of ZDDP logically makes our cam chains run a bit longer as they are 100% case hardened steel and they too need the heavy additive package to live relatively longer. So, protecting the oldest bikes still gives some benefits to even the newest production bikes and we still lack any form of sensor that would be damaged by the larger doses of ZDDP.

Plus, you really can't get a Savage hot enough to jell a gearcase full of full synthetic T6, the engine simply doesn't ever get hot enough to cause the full synthetic Rotella base oil much damage.

;)

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/05/19 at 13:12:19

THANK YOU "OLDFELLER".
From an other old feller (76). I do appreciate your comments and for your info if have bought the ZDDP and will add this with the upcoming oil change.
I am taking some hits for my " first impression" but it part of the fun.
I really like this bike for the reasons I have stated, just don't understand Suzuki marketing strategy for not making this bike a real winner. An owner should not need "Suzukisavage.com" to keep his/her Savager running.
Also, my bike has now 2,600 miles on it. When I turn back the throttle I get this wining sound, is this normal? My first impression was the timing chain. Could not find anything similar in the trouble sections.
Anyone, please reply.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/19 at 21:20:20

You know, back when the Savage was a puppy it wasn't a value bike at all, it was a Suzuki cost reduced take on a 350 Honda, nothing special, just a very minimal motorcycle.

It cost $1999 list when it first came out, and got sold for as low as $1500 new fairly regularly in the first years.

Suzuki wanted you to trade it in after the first year, so they made it as cheaply as legally possible and Suzuki had some 450s and 650s for you to trade up to.

It didn't need to last a long time ----- but it did anyway.

We puzzled out the fixes for most of the remaining issues and now they don't die at all unless you accidentally run them out of oil (#1 cause of death).

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 11:24:11

Somehow getting the oil filter in bakkerds has been the death of a few.
Letting the cam chain tensioner extend until it spits the spring into the engine has killed a few.
Someone was riding along and the counterweight shat itself onto the road.
Thankfully, that one is a very rare occurrence.

Title: Re: First impression of the s40
Post by FlyingH on 08/06/19 at 11:42:42

Batman,
Thanks for that detailed bike story, very interesting! :)