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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1563936756 Message started by SomeENG on 07/23/19 at 19:52:35 |
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Title: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/23/19 at 19:52:35 Hello. I bought a beater 97 on the cheap since it had been sitting for years. It had no muffler when I bought it so I found a pair of Harley mufflers for $30 locally. It (the muffler) has a baffle and is very long, sticks out past the rear brake arm. I max out at 75 on flat surfaces and weigh 230lbs. I get slightly better performance when I pull the choke stick out. I have a raptor 650 petcock (the legit larger size, not the puny knockoff) and a see through autozone plastic fuel filter (the larger size, bigger than a shot glass). I know I've got the exhaust sealed because it doesn't backfire unless I close the throttle quickly. What might I do to be able to max the throttle? EDIT: I replaced the air filter and spark plug a couple of weeks ago. 2nd problem Oil leaks from the top end above the head gasket. I have used black rtv a couple of times, making sure to hit the plug above the acorn nut (that apparently "always leaks") After sealing I won't have detectable leaks for about a month then it will need a 1/4 quart after two weeks and by 4-5 months will get annoyingly leaky at 1/4 quart weekly. This is on 170-200 mile commute weekly. I suspect the issue is because 2 or 3 of the bolt holes that hold the head cap down are stripped from a previous owner, ( there are 8mm, 10mm, and Allen bolts on the head cover) The stripped holes are on the right front side and have long bolts. However ALL leaked oil congrigates on the left side of the engine/carb/fuel line. This is my daily driver and I haven't the time or money to remove the jug and have the holes retapped. Are there any insights or tips to stopping the leakage or is re-sealing the cap just going to be a regular thing? I have heard good things about yamabond/hondabond, could it possibly make a difference keeping my oil in vs rtv? 3rd Buzzing rattle There is some buzzing I had assumed was from the speedo, but it continues after I took it off. I tried grabbing the headlight while driving but I still hear it. I haven't adjusted valves for 8-10 months, and that's when I installed the cam chain adjuster from Ver. 4th issue. My break pedal doesn't return by itself. I have installed a long Extention spring, I think the cable is worn and has too much resistance to return with the stock torsion spring alone. Any help is appreciated. Sorry for any less than perfect technical descriptions. I have read some posts but it is kind of a sea of information. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/19 at 21:59:06 1st, get rid of the filter, that may be th 90% stall. You shoulda got one of my plugs, that'll fix that leak. the brake pedal return spring, check where the straight leg is. you might have to put it on the other side of the mounting bolt. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by SomeENG on 07/24/19 at 04:32:58 I forgot to mention that I did replace the filter, just a couple of weeks ago, I'll update my post to reflect that. "Get rid of" Should I do a test run with filter off (around the block) to see if it works better? The idea being less backpressure requires less restriction of intake air? I'm also ordering your plug. I'll check the spring today. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by MarkHB on 07/24/19 at 06:18:17 ---- 437F7D75555E57100 wrote:
---- Take the carb apart and give it a good cleaning? Carbs that sit for long periods often get really gunked with all kinds of interesting compounds as the gas breaks down. I like watching a guy who calls himself Mustie1 on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/mustie1) and I'd say that 9/10 times he brings engines back to life with little more than a good carb cleaning. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by Oldfeller on 07/24/19 at 07:32:29 Step #1 Replace the stock vac petcock with a Raptor Petcock, then see if your issues remain unchanged. No valid analysis can be done with the vac petcock in place since it BY ITSELF can mock all your problem symptoms. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/19 at 08:27:18 04383A32121910570 wrote:
Get rid of it as in you don't need it. You have 2 screen filters in the line already and they do a pretty good job. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by SomeENG on 07/24/19 at 10:22:26 I just realized you are talking about the fuel filter, right? I had the same problem without the filter but that was before I installed the raptor petcock, I'll remove the fuel filter and see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/19 at 10:37:36 Yes, fuel filter. You might have to rejet, but best to eliminate the easy stuff 1st. |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by batman on 07/24/19 at 10:39:43 You changed to a HD muffler, did you rejet? have you ever tuned the fuel screw? have you done the white spacer mod? |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by SomeENG on 07/24/19 at 12:51:35 There was no muffler when I bought it, I haven't touched any of the settings on the carb. I'm off work in a couple of hours, 15 miles back to the house. We'll see what removing the fuel filter does. EDIT: Removing the fuel filter makes no noticible difference, I stall if I twist the throttle past 90% |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by batman on 07/24/19 at 19:29:11 Stall(as in die) or bog? Are you riding it, or just reving it in neutral? |
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Title: Re: Bike stalls at 90% throttle. Among other thing Post by SomeENG on 07/24/19 at 22:03:45 Yes, it bogs, but will stall if I do not back down on the throttle. While riding. I haven't ever tried maxing out the throttle in neutral. The bike starts and idles flawlessly. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/25/19 at 03:41:06 It's time to look inside the carb , you need to check your jet sizes, it idles well we can assume the pilot jet is ok ,it should be a 52.5 . The stock main jet would be a 147 ,but with the HD muffler the bike is less restricted ,and will tend to run leaner than the already lean setup from the factory , most owners have found the 150 main jet to be a good all around jet ,and you should due the spacer mod, how you change that will depend on your elevation above sea level . What is your general location? The plug leak is a tuff one ,it would seem that the stripped head bolts are at ,or near the same area as the plug ,and the cover holds the plug down in place , I wouldn't doubt that when the plug started leaking ,some one tried to tighten them and that's when they were damaged. When the plug leaks it always looks like a head gasket leak and it always runs across the fins to the left side of the motor, I'd hazard a guess ,that the air passing over the motor is deflected more strongly to that side by the fact that the exhaust header is off center. If you don't fix the bolts now ,I would use RTV as Yama/Hondabond doesn't dry . RTV should set after 24 hours. Being a MacGyver kind of guy, I would try to see if I could fix a small C -clamp in that area to apply a bit of pressure over the plug , or an L shaped bracket to run from the bolt hole used to mount the front of the chrome cover to one of the exhaust header flange bolts , to at least slow your oil loss , that may sound crazy but even the stock bolts where only torqued to a max of 8 ft/lbs. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/25/19 at 04:53:46 Ok, carb should come off this weekend then. I'll study the stripped bolt-holes problem until I get a Verslagen head plug. I forgot to check the brake pedal return spring. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/19 at 07:11:02 Some people have put in a 5mm longer bolt or even a new bolt. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by ohiomoto on 07/25/19 at 09:24:17 I'm 250 and this bike starts to struggle over 75, but if you can get there, that tells me your jetting isn't crazy far off. So top speed it in the ballpark. But why would it be dying??? Has it done this since you got it? does it perform well up until that point? I agree with Batman that you need to see what's in that carb. Maybe the PO swapped the air jets from the diaphragm or put crazy wrong jets in there. But that wouldn't explain the stall unless the float level is so far off that it literally runs out of fuel at full throttle. Even then, I would expect it to stumble and not completely die. Or maybe it's so rich you are flooding it out??? Maybe it's not fuel related at all and the ignitor is dying out at high RPMs. Strange. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/26/19 at 16:46:41 Yes, I've been running this bike almost a year. I suspect my stator is going out because my battery sometimes dies. I replaced the battery when I got it with an AGM. When it died I just jumped the clutch safety with a paperclip and push started it. I had to push start it four times today and it blew a fuse. Can push starting do that? EDIT: my neg battery terminal was loose, it may explain the blown fuse right? |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/27/19 at 17:54:03 This carb is pretty clean. Also the brass plug had been removed by a PO, the screw is about even with the body of the carb surrounding it at the 11/5 position. The two "jets" under the diaphragm are labeled 130 and 70. The two "jets" in the bowl aren't legible. There is no spacer on the needle. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/27/19 at 20:00:05 I don't know if the neg. battery post being loose would blow the fuse, but it would explain your battery dying , as it couldn't charge without the circuit being complete. I would also conclude that your stator is ok ,because that would be the only other supply of power to keep the bike running once started. Charge your battery and your starter should work (unless you like push starting) I would also conclude the reason for your bogging to be the fact that your spacer is completely missing , at WOT ( wide open throttle ) your fuel mix could become to rich to ignite (lots of fuel and no air ) . You need to replace it with either 3 #4 steel machine washers ,if your elevation is above 1,000 ft . or 2 washers if below that -as a general rule of thumb. the PO may have removed it thinking he could run just the header or a piece of wide open pipe ,or he didn't know spit! the motor would have run poorly and got bad mpg -40 or less. If you can't read the jets they can be bought for less than $10.00 each. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/27/19 at 21:43:36 I'll go to my local hardware store tomorrow for the washers, home depot only carries #6 and up. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/27/19 at 22:59:41 I forgot ,there should be a brass washer on the main jet ,between it and the needle jet ( the cylinder with the holes) it holds that fully up in the carb body (otherwise fuel can move around it) that would also make you run rich . a site like- Ron Ayers- has expanded views and part numbers of most of the bike ,and is good to view if you have doubts about assembly. Lowes ,usually has the washers, use steel , as the brass ones are usually thicker. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by LANCER on 07/28/19 at 11:16:14 Do you have jets handy to change out the pilot and main since they are not marked ? No markings of any kind ? |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/28/19 at 18:54:57 The larger jet had some sort of picture on it like a square inside a larger square. And maybe the number 4. The smaller jet had nothing identifiable. I added the washers, we'll see what if any difference it makes tomorrow. I did not have replacement jets, they can be replaced if the washers make no difference. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/29/19 at 07:52:21 There are four jets in the carb ,the ones your talking about I believe are the two in the top ,under the diaphragm( air jets) , the smalllone (as I remember) is unmarked , the larger one has a square or diamond shaped mark and is a 45 ,so I'm guessing these are stock. the other two jets(fuel) are in the bottom of the carb the small one (pilot jet) feeds your idle circuit it should be a 52.5 and that number should appear on it's base . the other is your main jet ,the size should also be on the base, this is the one where the brass washer should be to hold the needle jet up in place ,and I suggested be a 150 jet (two sizes up from the stock 147 due to your use of the HD muffler) . If you need to change the bottom fuel jets because the PO changed to larger ones Lancer sells a jet kit with several pilot and main jets at a price far more reasonable than you'll find anywhere else.Look him up in The Marketplace section. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/29/19 at 09:39:30 Here's what I found out, adding the two #4 stainless spacers over the needle did make a noticeable difference. I noticed I am able to throttle up with less hesitation ( previously if I gave too much throttle too quickly the bike would hesitate) Pulling the (choke?) Out gives a more noticible performance boost on the freeway. If I'm at max speed on the freeway letting go of the throttle now causes popping when it did not before. The bike still bogs if I max out the throttle, but not as badly as before. I will get the jets recommended. As for the washer between the needle and the jet, is it accessed by removing the jet or from the needle side above the jet? |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by verslagen1 on 07/29/19 at 09:46:32 75494B43636861260 wrote:
Remove the main jet from the bottom and the washer will come with it. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by ohiomoto on 07/29/19 at 09:51:01 So you were way too rich because of what the PO did with the needle. I would add two more washers or get a stock white spacer and get the rest of the jetting back to stock (or something close to what Batman recommended.) At that point, it should run reasonably well and you can fine-tune it from there. If not then you'll have to figure out what else is contributing to the issue. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/29/19 at 21:14:02 You shouldn't be pulling the choke out when the bike's running at speed, only for starting. You never told us your location so we can't advice the number of washers that should be put on the needle. The fact that the bike runs better with the two washers (which decreased the fuel ),but the bike runs faster when you pull the choke out at speed (which increases fuel ) is odd . I think before you do anything more to the carb you should replace the jets in the bowl with known (new)sizes 52.5/150. You might try increasing you Idle speed to relieve the popping when closing the throttle , if the sound is just a gurgle rather than loud popping that's normal . |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 07/30/19 at 20:34:37 I live in Los angeles. To specify. on the freeway when I have the choke pulled out, (it feels like) I am able to turn the throttle slightly further before it bogs. (But not by much) The bike will still bog if I try to accelerate too quickly. However at idle and when at top speed the bike now sounds more like other motorcycles I've owned. It could just be my perceptions? Because it now sounds more like my previous bikes I feel as though it's running better. :-/ I'll order the jets. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 07/31/19 at 05:43:55 Your elevation is avg. 301 ft above sea level . I would stay with 2 washers on the needle jet , but you may need a main jet larger than the one I suggested (150) maybe a 152.5 or 155 (the next two largest) that's because the air ,contains more oxygen at /near sea level so more fuel is needed also. Use the smallest one that runs well as the larger you go the less mpg the bike will get. E 87 gas will work on a stock bike no matter what jets you use, higher octane fuel will not increase performance and will be just a waste of money . |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/01/19 at 09:30:14 While I'm waiting for jets.. My electric start has been troublesome. I'm on my 2nd battery, the first had a hole worn in the bottom from a bolthead that sticks up into the battery compartment. I got another battery and put several layers of cardboard under it to prevent the problem. I previously (with a charged battery) was able to start the bike 12-15 times before the battery was too weak to start. I thought "no big deal" and got a charge controller and solar panel to keep it topped off. This worked for about 6-7 months. Within the past couple of weeks something has gone wrong. The battery is always "too weak" to start the bike, even after using a slow charger plugged into the wall. I had stopped at the hardware store and as I was push starting the bike to leave (it was being difficult, normally taking 1-2 tries but at the time 5 and counting) when someone in a minivan offered to jump me. I graciously accepted, as it was about 97 degrees and I was wearing protection. With his engine off, we hooked up the cables and the starter clunked once when I pushed the button. I tried the button four times before the starter engaged and the bike started right up. Just a week previous I had blown the fuses somehow between when I parked it and when I went to push start it. I have my theory that it could be a bare wire grounding somewhere, stealing my voltage when I need it? I don't know.. As long as it's getting me to work and back. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/19 at 09:45:04 In addition to checking all the other stuff... there's a little black box above the carb that's the decomp controller. It times the decomp actuation and when the starter can engage. It draws power all the time... something like 50ma. typical microprocessor draw. But it can go bad and draw more or try to start the bike on it's own. Very disconcerting finding your bike splayed in front of a wall with the starter running. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 08/01/19 at 11:19:20 As Vercy said the decomp . relay is always hot ,and draws a slight flow of power . but if you pull it out of the connecter ,there should be no flow from the battery, so if you have a voltmeter , you can disconnect the battery positive( being very careful no to touch it or the wrench or screwdriver your using to anything metal -grounding it) and place the meter between the cable and battery ,if you see any flow you have a ground , no flow would be normal . but you should then test your alternator and reg./rectifier. You should also check the ground cable at the motor ,it's the two wires (one large -the ground from the battery and the smaller ground wire from the harness ) under the casing bolt on the right side of the bike ,about 2"above the oil level site glass and back in about the same distance. check for tightness and any corrosion which might have formed( the wire end is copper , the bolt is steel and the case alum) . If the connection isn't clean it would affect both the starter motor and battery charging -which seems to be both your problems) It could even make the bike "bog" at higher throttle settings , where your spark coil needs to discharge at higher voltages and the plug 's ground also flows thru the motor cases like the starter. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/02/19 at 09:32:54 Ill check my grounding points and get a voltmeter if they (grounding points) look good. I've been looking for a reason to own one anyways. Here's what I've found out. The ground wire seemed slightly ratty, maybe 80% intact wires. I replaced it anyways, with a modern 6 gauge ground wire. The grounding point was on the left side between the starter and the battery box. I am using a shorter battery than stock, I think the positive terminal has been touching the battery box (which is solid metal) and has damaged the battery. I try starting the bike and it either clicks once or turns over very slowly. When I hook up my charger after several attempts to start (max 10 amp. Amperage drops as the battery is fully charged. It has an amperage gauge) the gauge shows 6 amps and within two minutes drops to 3 amps, then just above zero. So I'm guessing my battery is toast. The charger is old though, probably 40 years. It's all metal and has a switch for 6 and 12 volt. Soo maybe it's a problem with the charger. I also figured out that the rattling was coming from the gas cap. I cut out a circle of foam to make a 1/4" foam bushing. Fixed. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/16/19 at 19:52:51 Finally got time to change the jet. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mikuni-019-131-Main-Jet-155/185473849 This is what I ordered. https://www.amazon.com/20pcs-Carburetor-Main-Pilot-Keihin/dp/B07PGKW66C/ref=asc_df_B07PGKW66C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=346776885797&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2299890833654964677&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031161&hvtargid=pla-750072738619&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=71368039858&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=346776885797&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2299890833654964677&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031161&hvtargid=pla-750072738619 The 155 on this page is what I got. The jet is physically too long to fit the bowl, and the hole is only about half the diameter. Can someone please just link me something to buy? My bowl gasket had previously cracked in half, but was holding on. Today when I removed the bowl I somehow lost half my gasket. How is rtv black at holding in gas? Also my gas tank separated from the bottom mounting tab. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/19 at 22:03:51 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1336741909 |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by batman on 08/17/19 at 07:16:57 The jets you ordered are for a Keihin carb ,they wont fit or work, you have a Mikuni- BS40SS carb . I'd follow Verslagen's advice above and order Lancer's kit it has everything you need , Look in the market place. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/17/19 at 07:59:58 Yeah. The title says mikuni and the picture matched my current jet so I just ordered it. But checking the description says it's for keihin carb. Pretty misleading really. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by Junker on 08/18/19 at 13:53:56 When you say a long HD muffler, do you mean something of a touring model like this? http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/cuban_1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/18/19 at 17:12:57 https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/113676132852_/stock-slip-on-mufflers-harley-touring-exhaust-roadking.jpg Like these. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/19/19 at 05:23:09 Also my drive belt snapped this morning. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by Junker on 08/19/19 at 10:22:54 Duuudddeee .... That blows. I've recently run into a similar bogging issue which is currently been discussed on this thread ... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1564463530 Might be worth your time to have a look; it has been very helpful. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/19 at 12:53:29 477B7971515A53140 wrote:
They are Tough They have a good record A couple have died for no understood reason, but, generally they don't die Without a reason.. So, can you see anything that would explain why? How tight was it? On level ground or some kinda bump? |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/20/19 at 04:27:44 I think it may have been a bit too tight, I could almost turn it 90 degrees with ease, but not quite. And yes, it snapped when I was backing out of a steep driveway onto the street. |
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Title: Re: Bike bogs at 90% throttle. Among other things Post by SomeENG on 08/23/19 at 05:41:37 Replaced the belt. What were they thinking? Why doesn't the belt just go over the front pully? |
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