|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1563299505 Message started by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 10:51:43 |
|
Title: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 10:51:43 I need to change my fork seals so I started disassembly based on some youtube videos but after I loosened the top caps and clamp screws on the lower crown I canät seem to get the fork legs to move at all. They are supposed to come out from what I understand but they won't budge. I suspect the alu spacer between the blinker lights and the lower part of the crown is the culprit but what can I do to loosen things up a bit? |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 10:52:05 pic 2 |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 10:52:21 pic 3 |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 10:52:43 pic 4 |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by verslagen1 on 07/16/19 at 11:02:49 697B6B3938687E6B6A0C0 wrote:
That aluminum spacer is not stock, so I don't know if we can help you. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/16/19 at 11:42:20 But...you could leave the upper legs mounted and still remove the lowers. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 11:47:56 6463626466647F640B0 wrote:
Excellent suggestion! That could probably work. I will bolt things back tomorrow and see if I can get the lower part off with the top part still mounted on the bike. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by oldNslow on 07/16/19 at 15:58:20 4A58481A1B4B5D48492F0 wrote:
Excellent suggestion! That could probably work. I will bolt things back tomorrow and see if I can get the lower part off with the top part still mounted on the bike.[/quote] https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2000-suzuki-savage-650-ls650p/o/m147741#sch240465 That wont work. Look at the diagram. Part#7 the bushing, ( suzuki calls it a slide) wont fit through the seal. The lower bushing has to go on the tube, the tube into the lower, the upper bushing and the seal into the lower by sliding them down from the top of the tube. You can get the forks apart with the tubes in the triple clamps, but you won't be able to get them back together. Soak the tubes where they go through the trees and those spacers with some kind of penetrating oil, warm the aluminum with an electric heat gun or even a hair dryer, put a pipewrench on those spacers and see if anything turns. You've got to get the tubes out of the trees to be able to change the seals. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/16/19 at 16:02:11 If you go that route, you could use a piece of flat bar steel and bolt it across the llower legs using the fender bolts (or some a pit longer) to hold it while you release the allen head bolt in the bottom of the fork leg. I don't know what those "spacers" are either , but you may be able to release them by spraying and use of a strap wrench, or drive the tubes out with a piece of PVC pipe/wooden closet rod ? I'm I seeing a bolt/set screw in the back of that spacer? |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/19 at 19:05:52 Penetrating oil around the aluminum spacers. Dose it every time you can see the last dose has gone down. Wipe off the outside of the spacers so you'll know when it's worked through between the spacers and forks. Start with either a pipe wrench or big channel locks and try to spin the spacers. DO NOT CRUSH THEM and bind them against the forks. You can use a small, like eight ounce ball pein on them, with a bigger, heavier hammer opposite of where you are spanking the spacers. Quick, light pops, working on a vertical line on each spacer , checking to see if you can spin them, that is how I would go at it. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/16/19 at 19:49:10 The more I look at the"SPACERS" the more I think their made from another set of turn signal clamps (equal measurements all around-who would bother to make them?) which means they must have bolts that clamp them to the uppers also ,they may be just faced away in the pic . |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/16/19 at 22:42:07 They are not very thick so I doubt there is any room for a clamp screw but I will check more thoroughly today and snap some more pics. Thank you all for trying to help me. I don't know what I would do without you guys. (I did splash a small drop of penetrating oil on them yesterday in the hopes that it might help a little.) |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 06:25:31 447A7B77657978160 wrote:
Excellent suggestion! That could probably work. I will bolt things back tomorrow and see if I can get the lower part off with the top part still mounted on the bike.[/quote] https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2000-suzuki-savage-650-ls650p/o/m147741#sch240465 That wont work. Look at the diagram. Part#7 the bushing, ( suzuki calls it a slide) wont fit through the seal. The lower bushing has to go on the tube, the tube into the lower, the upper bushing and the seal into the lower by sliding them down from the top of the tube. You can get the forks apart with the tubes in the triple clamps, but you won't be able to get them back together. [/quote]--------------------------------- Are you sure??? I think you and put the seals and spacers in from the bottom of the upper tube and reassemble. I believe the only real issue is you would need a "split" tool to seat the seals after instead of a cheap piece of PVC pipe. As a matter of fact, I think a member on here actually did their forks this way. EDIT: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1130248382/29#29 |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/17/19 at 06:37:32 It appears that the spacers ARE stock/original item on this model of the bike. A while back I bought a big box of scrap parts from a guy who made a bobber out of his Savage. I took a look in that box today when frustration was about to get the better of me and found the exact same spacers. When examining them I discovered they have a small notch on one side and a small pin on the other side to help with alignment. That explains why I wasn't able to turn the spacer despite quite a bit of force. I have tried to use a knife as a wedge between it and the lower part of the crown to try and slide the spacer upwards on fork stem and it has worked to some extent but I only managed to slide less than a millimeter and I am concerned I may already have made some scratches to the fork. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/17/19 at 06:38:39 This is the end of the spacer facing upwards. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 06:42:30 I could be wrong, but I THINK if you remove the lower bushing from the upper, you can remove the seals from the bottom. http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w264/punkskalar/LS650%20Savage%20Forks/100_5482.jpg |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by oldNslow on 07/17/19 at 08:24:55 3037363032302B305F0 wrote:
But with the lower bushing on the tube and the upper bushing and the seal installed in the lower, I don't think you can then slide the lower back on to the tube. I've never done a set of Savage seals though, but I've done others and they have all required the tube to be in the lower before the seal and upper bushing were installed. The upper bush and the seal have to be slid down the tube from the top, which means the tube has to be removed from the triple trees. If that's not the case then our forks are different from any that I've ever seen and I've just learned something that I didn't know. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/19 at 08:29:13 330D0C00120E0F610 wrote:
But with the lower bushing on the tube and the upper bushing and the seal installed in the lower, I don't think you can then slide the lower back on to the tube. [/quote] Slide them on to the upper then install after sliding the lower on. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by oldNslow on 07/17/19 at 08:49:13 Quote:
OK, I can see that. What do you use to seat the upper bushing in the recess in the lower? I've always used a piece of PVC pipe slid down over the tube to tap it in. Same for the seal. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/17/19 at 09:09:56 I' d remove the top bridge and handlebars and headlight.and turn signals then heat the spacers with a torch ( there alum. and will expand faster than the steel fork tubes) then place a wooden board over the tops of the tube to prevent damage and drive them downward and out . repeating as needed . if the tubes are scratched in the process ,it might be ugly .but the seals don't ride in that area so use shouldn't be affected . |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/19 at 09:23:35 714F4E42504C4D230 wrote:
Take and cut a tube in half, length wise would be my 1st guess. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 09:39:35 Correct, that's what is called a split seal driver. http://https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/113312055880_/Split-Steel-46-47mm-Motorcycle-Front-Fork-Seal-Driver.jpg They are required for USD (upside down) forks where the axle is mounted on the bottom of the fork and there is no way to slide the seal over it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24kDZHsHwDI[/media] You can use saran wrap if you don't have a spare condom lying around and you'll have to be creative with the eeal driver. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/17/19 at 09:41:15 Just managed to move both spacers a bit. It looks like previous owner put glue or loctite or something EVERYWHERE. (Can't imagine it was done at the factory). The next problem is making the fork legs move in the lower crown. It seem to be just as stuck as the spacers was at first. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/17/19 at 09:55:06 6467726B6768323E060 wrote:
I was contemplating that but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to put everything back together properly. Still, it might be necessary to get the fork legs out from the lower part of the crown. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/17/19 at 12:32:06 Their not from any model of Savage , might be that's why they were glued , because they were off forks 1mm larger. taking off the top bridge only means removal of the chrome acorn cap , lifting the bars and controls on a padded gas tank surface. the stem and upper and lower bearings stay in place. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 12:42:47 Since you didn't follow my original advice and you appear to have a real mess on your hands, two words: HEAT GUN! :) I can remove ahead from a golf club in less than 2 minutes with my heat gun set on high. Maybe add two more words: PIPE WRENCH. Good luck. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/17/19 at 13:09:17 383F3E383A382338570 wrote:
I decided I wanted to remove the fork legs, partly because I am not sure I can change the seals myself so I may need to bring them with me to a friend who will assist me if I fail. Also, It think it will be easier if they are removable the next time I need to change the seals for do some other work that normally requires the fork legs to be removed. I did not mean to seem ungrateful. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/18/19 at 02:14:19 Todays quick investigation has led me to believe tha fork leg is somehow stuck in the top crown plate and not the lower one. Is it only the 29mm nut I have to remove on the top plate? |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by ohiomoto on 07/18/19 at 05:51:34 3A28386A6B3B2D38395F0 wrote:
I decided I wanted to remove the fork legs, partly because I am not sure I can change the seals myself so I may need to bring them with me to a friend who will assist me if I fail. Also, It think it will be easier if they are removable the next time I need to change the seals for do some other work that normally requires the fork legs to be removed. I did not mean to seem ungrateful.[/quote]------------------------------------- Haha, no offense taken here. I was half-joking around and I totally understand your desire to remove the tubes. Yes, to remove to top clamp, simply remove the center nut. Once removed, you can remove the spanner nut and drop the whole front end. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/19 at 06:31:24 Finally managed to get the fork tubes out of the crown and away from the bike. They were stuck in the top plate pretty hard. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/19 at 06:34:46 I managed to get the top nut off (it was actually a 30mm nut and NOT 29mm as I wrote earlier) but now I can't remove the top plate. I know it's not supposed to be that hard but I have tried tapping it from the other end with a wood stick and a mallet and allso applying heat but it doesn't matter. It wont move at all. I think it may have rusted together with the part going from the bottom plate through the frame. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/20/19 at 06:36:53 I even used this tool whatever the english name for it is and it didn't help. I also noticed the the bearing seem to be bad. It's hard to tell from the video but it's not smooth at all, but rather "jerky" so I think I need to replace that as well and in order to do that I am pretty sure I HAVE to get the top plate off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuO4YfcXwfQ |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by verslagen1 on 07/20/19 at 08:23:29 I think your problem is everything is corroded together. Apply pen oil and let it soak in, then apply more, give it a smack, apply more.... etc. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/22/19 at 03:59:52 I have decided to not remove the top part of the fork crown and instead focus on just changing the fork seals. I am so far outside my comfort zone with this project it's just ridiculous. I watched a ~1 hour youtube video several times before I started and felt: "Hey, this actually looks doable". Everything is corroded together and won't come of without stupid amounts of force and/or heat. I have finally managed to separate the fork legs but I think I need new seal springs or whatever it is called. Instead of posting a single pic I added the pictures I took in a shared album instead: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPzP1p-Vidr0am_ASW144WW-EaZJu3AxZtBaP0GVKfOVxn3dEJMi8j9B6IchaXppQ?key=OG9iR05RS1F0Qm9KZ21PaUE0ODVCQU1xdHFyQVZR Should I slide the old seals off to the bottom of the tube or the top? |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by Dave on 07/22/19 at 06:45:00 Although you can get the bottom fork legs off the tubes without removing the tubes from the clamps/yokes - the seals have to come off the top of the tubes, as the tubes have bearings/sliders on the bottom. Somehow you need to get the tubes out of the clamps/yokes. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/19 at 07:11:45 You just need to build the forks in reverse order. If you took the seals off last off the bottom, they'll need to go on 1st and etc. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/22/19 at 18:03:59 We don't know if you've heard, but the best pen. oil is a 50/50 mix of acetone & transmission fluid . If your dealing with salt corrosion ,I don't think heat is going to help ( I may be wrong). |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/23/19 at 01:02:01 Yeas I think I remember something about Acetone and ATF. I think I have seen a recipe somewhere with aliphatic mineral spirits and even Kerosene thrown in the mix as well. So far I have only used 5-56 which is similar to WD-40. My frame have rust here and there as well so it may very well have been driven in the winter or early spring when there is still a lot of salt left on the roads. My main concern right now is that the pitting in the lower part of the fork where the seal is supposed to sit may be so severe it won't make a proper seal and I may have to replace the front forks altogether. The springs that is holding the seals in place are almost rusted up but I'm having some trouble locating new one quickly so I will put the old ones back and ride while figuring out a permanent solution. I think I will try and find another bike and use parts from both to make a really good one and keep the parts that are still usable as spares. One important question for you guys: Should I clean out the fork tubes with degreaer or breakclean or similar before putting everything back together? |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by batman on 07/23/19 at 10:13:51 I would just drain as much old fork oil as you can and replace with new .Anything else might attack the seals. |
|
Title: Re: Having trouble loosening fork legs from crown Post by kamelryttarn on 07/27/19 at 13:27:41 Just wanted to thank you all and let you know that the bike has been put back together with new seals. There was not much left of the fork seal springs and the pitting where the seal sits is severe, but I decided to do the best I could hope for the best. I will probably buy another Savage in the future and use the best parts from both bike to build a really great one. Until then I will keep on practicing so I can get my drivers license. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |