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Message started by coltybear15 on 07/16/19 at 10:44:59

Title: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by coltybear15 on 07/16/19 at 10:44:59

Hey guys, so I searched through the forums and couldn’t find anyone who has had my problem.

Bike is a 1987 Savage with 10k miles. It had the vacuum line problem so I replaced the petcock and sealed off the vacuum port at the carb. Been running fantastic ever since!

Rode to work a couple days ago, everything was fine. Left work and got ALMOST (100 yards) to the driveway, and the bike just quit. Like spark was lost. Will not restart.

Cranks fine, new battery, in neutral, all safety switches work fine. Inline filter shows fuel (even though it didn’t die like a fuel problem) and I always kill the bike with the key so I’ve never left the key on and Killswitch off to fry the coil or anything like I’ve read elsewhere.

Help a brotha out if you’ve had this problem! It’s too nice out to not be riding!

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by verslagen1 on 07/16/19 at 10:56:17

100 yds tells me you had a full carb bowl when you started, but gas wasn't flowing from the tank.

Did you turn the petcock on?

If so, maybe a stuck float. Give the carb bowl a rap with the handle of a screwdriver to unstick it.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by coltybear15 on 07/16/19 at 11:50:22

243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:

100 yards from getting home! I rode for miles to work then miles headed home after work. When I forget to turn the fuel on I usually make it about half a mile. Lol.
I’m 100% sure it’s not a fuel problem and not carb related. Like I said the bike died INSTANTLY. No sputtering.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by Yoshi on 07/16/19 at 13:26:33

remove the fuel line from the carb and let it flow, verify that you have fuel first

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by stewmills on 07/16/19 at 14:17:32

Not being a smarty pants, but have you removed and tested your spark plug? I had a riding mower that once died shortly after installing a new plug. Come to find out there was a hairline fracture probably there before the I installed it, and the vibration rattled it to where the ceramic separated and killed my spark. I chased the issue for days just knowing it was not my new park plug, when in fact that's all it was.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by batman on 07/16/19 at 15:27:06

check your fuses? what's the voltage on you battery ? If the voltage is below 10 v ,the bike will turn over but wont have any spark, charge the battery, let it sit over night , and check to see if it held. If after charging the bike starts , check the voltage across the battery right away , if the bike's charging system is good you should see voltage between 13.5 -14.5 or at least higher than battery voltage you charged it to. You could also check for loose connectors ,burnt wires ,etc.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by Dave on 07/16/19 at 18:57:30

Ditch the inline fuel filter......they can airlock when a bubble gets stuck in the small inlet/outlet of the filter, and prevent fuel flow. The plastic on the filter is pretty thick, and it reduces the size of the hole that fuel has to flow through....it has about 1/4th the area of the rubber tubing.

You already have filters on the petcock, and another just above the seat in the carb.....a 3rd filter really is a bit excessive.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by coltybear15 on 07/16/19 at 18:57:58

Plug is wet and fuel comes out of the line at the carb. All fuses are intact. Plug is sparking and I got it to finally fire tonight with a bit of coaxing. Won’t idle and is puffing a bit of white smoke. :-[ :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by batman on 07/16/19 at 20:08:25

You fired the bike,so you have compression and ignition, that leaves fuel. if you don't have a true Raptor petcock you need one,you don't need or want an inline filter. you should check to make sure the vacuum line is still plugged , if all else fails clean the carb if it wont idle check the pilot jet ,the filter above the float valve seat and its O-ring as well as the TEV valve ,main jet and all the passages, and float height.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by verslagen1 on 07/16/19 at 20:51:55

[quote author=7B77746C617A7D796A292D180 link=1563299099/0#7 date=1563328678]Plug is wet and fuel comes out of the line at the carb. All fuses are intact. Plug is sparking and I got it to finally fire tonight with a bit of coaxing. Won’t idle and is puffing a bit of white smoke. :-[ :-[ :-[/quote]
plug is wet, you flooded it.
check the main jet, should be a washer under it.
if not, the needle jet can get sucked up into the throat.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 06:14:17

[quote author=45494A525F444347541713260 link=1563299099/0#7 date=1563328678]Plug is wet and fuel comes out of the line at the carb. All fuses are intact. Plug is sparking and I got it to finally fire tonight with a bit of coaxing. Won’t idle and is puffing a bit of white smoke. :-[ :-[ :-[/quote]
--------------------------------------------

Yep, it sounds like it's flooded alright.

Did you happen to leave the petcock on while you were at work????

Sounds like you may have filled your crankcase with fuel. Check your oil for gas ASAP. if it's overfilled and smells like gas, change it asap. If this did happen, you may have been unlucky and simply had some debris stuck in you float needle or it might be worn and it needs to be replaced.

I never leave my petcock on if the bike is going to be sitting for extended periods of time. Like more than 15-20 minutes.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by coltybear15 on 07/17/19 at 07:10:31

Ok guys I think we’re getting a little off track. Lol. My original issue was my bike dying after MILES and miles of flawless riding, WHILE riding. I’ve rode all sorts of power sports my whole life and this mimicked nothing resembling a fuel or carb problem. It was just like the spark plug died. And I’ve not had a spark plug die without misfiring a few times first.

To answer some of the questions brought up:
Yamaha Raptor 660 OEM petcock from the Yamaha shop
Vacuum port on carb is still plugged
I’m religious about turning my petcock off every time I get off the bike that I forget to turn it on when I start riding til it starts sputtering lol.
No fuel in the crankcase

I will remove the inline filter. I’m just used to diesel and the more filters the better!

I will also check the jets when I get a chance. (13 hour work days)

NOW, after the bike has sat almost a week WITH the petcock turned off, it fired once, died, crank for another second or 2, fired, died, crank, fire, died. Petcock is on for trying to start.
Plug is wet and sparky sparks.
Ignition system going TU?
Always leave my battery on a Battery Tender, and is a new gel battery.

I’m more worried about the original problem of the bike dying while riding, which seemed electrical, which I only have the slightest clue about.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by Dave on 07/17/19 at 07:41:58

The one thing that needs to be done....is check the battery voltage.

The ignition system stops making a spark when the voltage drops below something like 10.5 volts - so if your charging system was not keeping up on the ride home.....it could have dropped below the magic voltage and stopped supplying the needed voltage.

One thing that may make this hard to trouble shoot - is the fact that it is possible for the battery to have enough voltage to run the starter.....and still not have enough voltage to fire the ignition system. Removing the spark plug and turning the engine over and seeing a spark may also be confusing, as the voltage may not be sufficient when the plug is back in the engine and there is compression pulling more current draw on the starter.

Having the battery on a tender may not resolve the problem if the voltage is not high enough and/or the battery is faulty (even though it is new). Battery tenders and smart chargers can interpret a low voltage incorrectly and fail to charge a battery that is low on charge.

Can you test the voltage of the battery? Can you jump the bike from a car battery and see if the bike still won't start (don't have the car running if you jump from a car).

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/19 at 08:12:02

You can also have corroded contacts throughout the harness that will drop the volts or will have intermittent contact.

Break and make all the connectors.
Clean and apply dielectric grease.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by batman on 07/17/19 at 09:23:30

And the O-ring on the outside of the float valve seat could have died of old age ,and caused the fuel to go around the valve and be flooding the carb , the pilot and/ or main jet could also be plugged, don't discount a carb problem ,they can happen anytime And your bike being an 87 isn't exactly showroom new. not carb maybe yes carb ,you can't tell unless you look.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by batman on 07/17/19 at 09:25:16

And the O-ring on the outside of the float valve seat could have died of old age ,and caused the fuel to go around the valve and be flooding the carb (wet plug) , the pilot and/ or main jet could also be plugged, don't discount a carb problem ,they can happen anytime And your bike being an 87 isn't exactly showroom new , fuel could damage the O-ring over time .

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by Koldslaw on 07/17/19 at 12:17:15

Check Spark Plug, connections to battery.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/19/19 at 14:48:17

Use a little shot of ether ..
Pull the seat and shoot a shot into the air intake.
If it bumps and tries
You have a fuel problem.
If it doesn't do anything
You either have a spark or compression problem.
The easiest way to start troubleshooting is providing a combustible material into the thing.

Were there any noises involved?
When I forget to turn the gas on, I get about eight Hundred feet. The first almost three hundred is pretty much uphill .

You can check spark without pulling the plug.
Pull the wire and stick another plug in.

Wires to the CDI can be routed wrong and cut by the belt.
Instant pedestrian.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by hotprops on 07/21/19 at 10:59:36

i had a lot problems with the wiring harness quick connects as the vibration of the bike is a lot .as versa suggested check the 20 or more under the seat and triple wire tie them with small size zip ties.the dielectric idea was good as well.also a battery on its way out will not allow the ignition to fire the plug as stated above. i was a recipient of both of the above 2 times each, stranding me many miles from home.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by coltybear15 on 08/28/19 at 20:46:02

Alright guys...

I’m not sure how I feel exactly...

I checked everything and it all pointed to weak spark. Good compression, getting fuel, and still not firing. Spark looked weak and small. But all connections were good and all tests came back as within spec.

Something told me to drop the bowl.

And in it lay the pilot jet. :o

The freaking jet fell out into the float bowl.

:-[ :-[ :-[

I also got an E3 spark plug and she’s running like a champ now! Thanks for all the helpful advice and ideas.

Title: Re: Bike died while riding. NOT CARB
Post by Dave on 08/29/19 at 04:11:34

363A39212C373034276460550 wrote:

I also got an E3 spark plug and she’s running like a champ now! Thanks for all the helpful advice and ideas.

Don't waste money on an E3 spark plug next time you get one.....it won't do anything to help the Savage engine (or any other engine). The ignition system only makes one spark....regardless of how many electrodes the plug has....if you want a premium plug that has good durability get an Iridium - but the stock plug works just fine.

The E3 plug is a gimmick just like magnets on the fuel line, turbines in the intake stream, etc. If this stuff actually worked, you would see the factory installing them as they spend millions of dollars researching ways to make engines run more efficiently and make more HP.