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Message started by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 08:03:31

Title: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 08:03:31

When hasn't it been in play?

Re: Epstein, Weinstein, etc..... When will they use the It is how I was born with my sexuality.....card?

Using the arguments of all the gender and sexuality explanations to justify ones sexual activities, beliefs, etc.... thus allowing them to live a life that allows free expression of that sexuality, and protects them from judgement and discrimination of others......based on their own belief system that is rooted in other mitigating reasoning.....with what, morality being one of the considerations?

Who is to judge?

OK, lets look at the other part of the equation, the women/girls.
Rape is rape, and is a crime, period, however, if a girl wants to sell sex for money, why not?
Who are others to say.....NO YOU CAN'T?
Based on what....morality?

Who's?

A minor child can have a abortion WITHOUT anyone's consent.....
On the reasoning its HER CHOICE to do with her body as she desires.....
Why is this different?

They now teach in grade schools how to have different types of sexual experiences, etc, and to be aware and accepting of our, and others,  sexuality, why is horn dog not given the same considerations?
Let's face it, we all have different sex drives and needs based on a deeper born with factor......that is fact.
Why do we not treat all sexuality with the same considerations?

Women who used sex to gain employment advancement, jobs, etc, do so for the same reasoning as a prostitute, nothing differs.....
They use their body as a means to get what thy want, they can say....NO, and if it persist, then it passes into another realm where punitive actions need to be enforced.

Another question, if you think a man in power who uses his position to get sex, etc, is wrong, then can we extend that reasoning to a woman who uses it too, be it against a man, or another woman, and how about a Gay man of means using his power and position who tries to force a straight man into a sexual encounter?

Why do we not have equal justice for all when it comes to this issue of sex?

Who decides the mitigating factors of how we are to deal with the differing of everyone's own unique sexuality?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/12/19 at 08:34:43

Courts

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by WebsterMark on 07/12/19 at 08:39:13

Why? Because men and women are different that’s why.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:08:49


3D2B3C21392C213A4E0 wrote:
Courts


Really...maybe that is why Trump wants to stack the SC and then you will just accept their final say, ok.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:09:38


744641505746516E425148230 wrote:
Why? Because men and women are different that’s why.


How so.....you want to explain why that factors in legally?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by T And T Garage on 07/12/19 at 09:09:57

It's about the innocent and consent, not the guilty.

You think all priests molesting little boys were just "the way they are"?  Hell no.  They preyed upon the innocent.  That's their motivation.  That's a rapists motivation.  It's not sex, it's power/dominance.

To equate LGBT to child molesters is like equating all straight men to rapists.

Sexual orientation is not the same as a sexual predilection to minors or children.

Thankfully, in our society, we protect the innocent and convict the guilty.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:35:48

Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/12/19 at 09:38:47

I think younger people are much less hung up about sex than we were.
Generally, less hung up about race as well.
That should be taken to mean we're going in a better direction.

On the negative side,.. social media has made attacks more personal, and created a class of social outcasts that we never had to deal with.
At least not to this extent.

I hope they tire of it, and the flip phone movement catches on.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by T And T Garage on 07/12/19 at 09:48:05


2F3C24393C2A3A5D0 wrote:
Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.


I'm addressing this in particular:
"Re: Epstein, Weinstein, etc..... When will they use the It is how I was born with my sexuality.....card?"

Did you mean that in a different way?  Do you honestly think that there's any way they can get away with their behaviour by just saying "it is how I was born with my sexuality"?

Use your words more carefully if you don't want others to misunderstand.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/12/19 at 09:48:46


22312934312737500 wrote:
Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.

If participants are willing, and of legal age,... what activity are you suggesting warrants restrictions?
We do have laws about public indecency and the like.

You know what bugs me?... Those people with lewd and vulgar bumper stickers and t-shirts that they think are funny..
I always look around to see if there are any children being exposed to these rude proclamations.
....and now,.. parents have to cover their children's ears when the President speaks.
Let's fix that. :-?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:52:53


3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
I think younger people are much less hung up about sex than we were.
Generally, less hung up about race as well.
That should be taken to mean we're going in a better direction.

On the negative side,.. social media has made attacks more personal, and created a class of social outcasts that we never had to deal with.
At least not to this extent.

I hope they tire of it, and the flip phone movement catches on.


I agree with your observation, lots of misconceptions about those subjects because they were taboo....
I find that to be very similar to the resulting of Political Correctness too...

HOWEVER..... my question still has not been addressed  :)

Why do we hold certain folk to a certain standard regarding their sexuality when there is no foul play involved?  

It is based on what?

Morality?

Who's....the one in power, that is always changing, or....?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:54:13


736D62636E736875070 wrote:
[quote author=2F3C24393C2A3A5D0 link=1562943811/0#6 date=1562949348]Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.


I'm addressing this in particular:
"Re: Epstein, Weinstein, etc..... When will they use the It is how I was born with my sexuality.....card?"

Did you mean that in a different way?  Do you honestly think that there's any way they can get away with their behaviour by just saying "it is how I was born with my sexuality"?

Use your words more carefully if you don't want others to misunderstand.[/quote]

Lets try this: Will you say we all have the same sex drive?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 09:55:19


2137203D25303D26520 wrote:
[quote author=22312934312737500 link=1562943811/0#6 date=1562949348]Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.

If participants are willing, and of legal age,... what activity are you suggesting warrants restrictions?
We do have laws about public indecency and the like.

You know what bugs me?... Those people with lewd and vulgar bumper stickers and t-shirts that they think are funny..
I always look around to see if there are any children being exposed to these rude proclamations.
....and now,.. parents have to cover their children's ears when the President speaks.
Let's fix that. :-?[/quote]

But where does freedom of expression stop, when it offends you?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/12/19 at 09:57:18

I don't know who you're referring to,... Eptstein, Trump?...
These accusations are from underage or unwilling participants.

If you're just talking about prostitutes,... I'd say it should be legal and regulated... and taxed.
Like in free countries... ;D

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by T And T Garage on 07/12/19 at 10:17:53


72617964617767000 wrote:
[quote author=736D62636E736875070 link=1562943811/0#8 date=1562950085][quote author=2F3C24393C2A3A5D0 link=1562943811/0#6 date=1562949348]Read again......with the emphasis on willing participants.

Then who's reasoning do we insert in declaring one sexual activity warrants restrictions to their free expression?

It is NOT comparing one to the other, that is solely your own desire to read into something that is not present.


I'm addressing this in particular:
"Re: Epstein, Weinstein, etc..... When will they use the It is how I was born with my sexuality.....card?"

Did you mean that in a different way?  Do you honestly think that there's any way they can get away with their behaviour by just saying "it is how I was born with my sexuality"?

Use your words more carefully if you don't want others to misunderstand.[/quote]

Lets try this: Will you say we all have the same sex drive?
[/quote]

No, I don't think so.  There's huge differences in people's "sex drives".  (unless you have another definition of "sex drive").

From what I gather from one part of your OP, you seem to blur the line between sexual orientation and self control.

What people actually act on can be entirely different than what they may or may not have in their thoughts.  Societal norms guide us in in our day to day life. You can call it morality, piety or whatever, but it's simply protection of the innocent.

Example - it's not the consent law that keeps most adult men from marrying 10 year old girls.

As to prostitution - I dunno.  Making adult movies is legal.  The actors are in effect, "selling themselves" (just like all actors).  Hell, why not make it legal?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 10:29:55

I am asking if age plays a part in the reasoning of, in this case, a man, having willingly agreed to sex with a partner, be it a minor, because his sexual drive/need is as such, that young girls satisfy something in his physiological sexuality (?)

Please forget forced against will to this equation.....
That is a no brainer as it is as obvious.

How many, in this case, men...lives have been ruined by this age requirement in a consensual sex activity they both engaged in freely.....for whatever reasons?

Who decides its wrong, based upon what criteria?

Is my question that hard to grasp?

Seems a giant double standard generated toward men on this issue, which prompted my question about equal justice, not unlike how race was, and still in many cases, is, a factor in equal and just representation, and implementation of laws....    

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by T And T Garage on 07/12/19 at 11:15:41


7C6F776A6F79690E0 wrote:
I am asking if age plays a part in the reasoning of, in this case, a man, having willingly agreed to sex with a partner, be it a minor, because his sexual drive/need is as such, that young girls satisfy something in his physiological sexuality (?)

Please forget forced against will to this equation.....
That is a no brainer as it is as obvious.

Yes, age plays a part.  Do you think those boys/girls who are molested are all kicking and screaming to get a way?  No.  In fact, I'd say hardly any of them were.  They were coaxed into a situation that they initially consented to.  They were innocently following an adult or a superior.  Key word - innocently.  Up until a certain age, children are innocent to the world around them.  Likewise, inexperienced people are the same way (3 card Monty anyone?).  A pedophile, sexual predator or rapist uses their powers - be it authority, age, personal relationship, looks or sometime violence -  to coerce their victims.

The bottom line is always the same - the victims are preyed upon.

How many, in this case, men...lives have been ruined by this age requirement in a consensual sex activity they both engaged in freely.....for whatever reasons?

Like I said - it's not the consent laws that keeps most men from dating 10 year olds.  It's the societal norms that we've developed over the ages.  Protecting the innocent is innate.

Who decides its wrong, based upon what criteria?

It's our society and its evolution.  We structure laws to protect the innocent.  how do we determine who's innocent?  One way (out of many) is how old that person is.  If a law permits a 16 year old to have sex with an adult, then so be it - as long as there's mutual consent.  But if that same scenario would play out as a teacher pressuring a student to have sex for a passing grade, that's coercion and preying upon the innocent.

Is my question that hard to grasp?

No, not at all.  What's actually hard to grasp is why you're asking it in the first place.

Seems a giant double standard generated toward men on this issue, which prompted my question about equal justice, not unlike how race was, and still in many cases, is, a factor in equal and just representation, and implementation of laws....    


Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by raydawg on 07/12/19 at 11:49:29

Societal norms....which can be persuaded by power, as evidenced through dictators/rulers, with Rome being a great example of how they fall, etc....

Who then controls the media, the education, business, can promote their own norm is what you are saying I guess....???

You keep going back to unwilling examples, via coercion, I am not talking about that, I agree, that is not willingly.

If it is solely based on age, that these children are too young to make such a life altering decision regarding sexual activities and need to be protected against possible harm.....

Then why do we not extend the same concerns to allowing them to get/have unconsented abortions that come via that same sexual activity?

I'm done with this.....just trying to link all the reasoning together as what appears to me to be a injustice to certain folk....
I am not condoning it, just trying to find a answer that appears to me a discrepancy of law.  

If it was up to me I'd push abstinence as the only sure thing against being caught in a sexual compromise of self, or having to make the decision re: abortion....but temptation, regardless of influences is hard for everyone to overcome, which, brings us back to why the horn dawg needs to act like he/they, do.... (that was a joke).    

I'm done with it..... Thanks for playing.
Gotta go crabbing  ;D

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Eegore on 07/12/19 at 12:03:27

"Using the arguments of all the gender and sexuality explanations to justify ones sexual activities, beliefs, etc.... thus allowing them to live a life that allows free expression of that sexuality, and protects them from judgement and discrimination of others......based on their own belief system that is rooted in other mitigating reasoning.....with what, morality being one of the considerations?"

 This needs to be clarified further.  Are you asking if morality is to be taken into consideration when identifying and practicing personal sexuality?  Yes.  

"Who is to judge?"

 Legally?  Courts, Judges and Juries.

"OK, lets look at the other part of the equation, the women/girls.
Rape is rape, and is a crime, period, however, if a girl wants to sell sex for money, why not?"


 They can, its a multi-billion dollar industry called pornography. Just as with all business practice regulations must be followed.  If one wants to practice public prostitution they must do so in counties that have a legal structure to do so.  

"Who are others to say.....NO YOU CAN'T?
Based on what....morality?"


 Yes.  Depends on who's saying NO YOU CAN'T, is it someone saying its illegal to prostitute in downtown by the high-school, or someone saying you can't ever do that?  Both are morality based.

"A minor child can have a abortion WITHOUT anyone's consent.....
On the reasoning its HER CHOICE to do with her body as she desires.....
Why is this different?"


 There has been no national push to legalize underage prostitution.  Given enough people get involved and with the proper decriminalization of sex with minors, restructuring of public sex laws to include minors, then sure a 13 year old girl could potentially legally sleep with whoever she wants.

"They now teach in grade schools how to have different types of sexual experiences, etc, and to be aware and accepting of our, and others,  sexuality, why is horn dog not given the same considerations? "

 Modern comprehensive sex-education programs do.

"Let's face it, we all have different sex drives and needs based on a deeper born with factor......that is fact.
Why do we not treat all sexuality with the same considerations"


 Nobody is stopping anyone from doing that.  Go ahead.

"Women who used sex to gain employment advancement, jobs, etc, do so for the same reasoning as a prostitute, nothing differs....."

 Sleeping your way to the top isn't typically illegal.  It can be, and no legal structure differentiates the gender making it more legal for a female superior to sleep with a subordinate than a male.  

"and how about a Gay man of means using his power and position who tries to force a straight man into a sexual encounter?"  

 Still illegal.  Exactly as illegal as any other version of any gender or orientation.

"Why do we not have equal justice for all when it comes to this issue of sex?"

 Can you cite an example of a law that differentiates by sexuality?

"Who decides the mitigating factors of how we are to deal with the differing of everyone's own unique sexuality?"

 Legally?  Courts.  Personally?  You.  Most laws are developed by citizens who take action, so Courts are you also.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by T And T Garage on 07/12/19 at 12:33:50


6E7D65787D6B7B1C0 wrote:
Societal norms....which can be persuaded by power, as evidenced through dictators/rulers, with Rome being a great example of how they fall, etc....

Who then controls the media, the education, business, can promote their own norm is what you are saying I guess....???

You keep going back to unwilling examples, via coercion, I am not talking about that, I agree, that is not willingly.

If it is solely based on age, that these children are too young to make such a life altering decision regarding sexual activities and need to be protected against possible harm.....

Then why do we not extend the same concerns to allowing them to get/have unconsented abortions that come via that same sexual activity?

There is no "black and white ", ray.  The laws are what they are.  They've been put together based on our societal norms.  I don't know what else to tell you.  I find it difficult that you can't grasp these basic ideals.

I'm done with this.....just trying to link all the reasoning together as what appears to me to be a injustice to certain folk....
I am not condoning it, just trying to find a answer that appears to me a discrepancy of law.  

Again ray, I'm not sure why you have a tough time with this.  Do you somehow think that it's OK for a 10 year old to have sex with an adult, simply because that 10 year old says "yes"?

Do you also wonder why there are age limits on things like alcohol consumption, voting, driving, etc.?

If it was up to me I'd push abstinence as the only sure thing against being caught in a sexual compromise of self, or having to make the decision re: abortion....but temptation, regardless of influences is hard for everyone to overcome, which, brings us back to why the horn dawg needs to act like he/they, do.... (that was a joke).    

I'm done with it..... Thanks for playing.
Gotta go crabbing  ;D


So, you weren't being serious to begin with.

Such a waste of my time.....

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/19 at 07:49:48

Like I said - it's not the consent laws that keeps most men from dating 10 year olds.  It's the societal norms that we've developed over the ages.  Protecting the innocent is innate.


Laws, not gonna stop people.
Agreed.
Societal NORMS, peer pressure, being shunned by peers due to
Aberrant behavior,,
Good stuff, helps keep a society strong.

Rewriting social norms to make a tiny fraction happy?
Watch out for the
Unintended (which, BTW, does Not necessarily translate to Unforeseeable)   where the society that takes behaviors that have always been in the underbelly of life and, rather than continue to Not include those behaviors in the
We know it's going on, but we,as a society, frown on that and will shun those people, well, that is gonna have consequences.
Maintaining decent societal norms is crucial to a strong society.
Did America have some accepted societal norms that Needed rewritten?
Yeah, and it got done.
So, don't pretend I'm pushing hate.
But you lefties are all good with the new normal.
What do you think a conservative is?
We LIKED the society that Didn't embrace homosexuality,, we knew it existed, but we don't want to have to treat it as
Normal...
And, Who would have Ever Guessed, that no sooner than the Big Fight for equality for faggots is done, Now that That's been shoved down our throats, NOW we get transgender BULLSHIT..
And where does it STOP?
Huh? Where Does it STOP?
Well, says the atheist, this is how Gawd made me, and I can't change so I'm not Wrong, so, ACCEPT ME, Or you're, pick a few, a
Bigot
Homophobe

Whatever

You're prejudiced,
Whatever,
Somehow, society will continue to bow down to the mentally and spiritually diseased and , being nice,continue to rewrite the social norms until
Pedos will be just as protected as trannies,,
After all, it's just
How they are,, they can't help it,
Right?
Worked for queers in the eighties.
Working fine for the gender confused today.

You tell me WHY I'm wrong.
Is it because kid diddling is somehow more morally repugnant than men butthumping each other?

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by thumperclone on 07/14/19 at 08:25:49

WRONG AGAIN!!
people with different perspectives than yours are not
"mentally and spiritually diseased"
wisdom doesn't always succeed age or IQ

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/14/19 at 09:33:01


2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:
You tell me WHY I'm wrong.
Is it because kid diddling is somehow more morally repugnant than men butthumping each other?


It is about consent.
There is an age when it is deemed too young to consent.
We protect children from abuse by adults.
How is that so hard to understand?.

Your homophobia is interfering with your critical thinking.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/19 at 11:28:42

Ohhh, you're so right. It's about consent..  But that's NOW...  And there was a Time when it was not socially acceptable for people to engage in homosexual behavior, BUT, that social norm got rewritten, didn't it? And what Followed THAT? So, what's the Next STEP? It's got Zero to do with any phobia, it's all about seeing the trend, the direction, and seeing that Next Step.
Or, are you saying you lefties are finished with your remaking society?
What's your Next NECESSARY step to create the ideological society you atheists have decided we need to step Forward?
What will our society BE when you lefties decide it's okay now?
Describe what you want.
May I go ahead and state that I'm gonna get
Krikkits?

Arguing morality with the Godless is rarely productive.

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Eegore on 07/14/19 at 12:07:03


 I guess I'm not seeing where the connection of legalizing gay marriage can lead to pedophiles becoming a protected class.  This would require a lot of people being ok with child rape, and that isn't even close to the same thing as gay marriage or gender identity.  

 The primary difference I see is that the people that are not OK with transgender bathrooms etc. are protesting instead of creating legal structure to combat it.  The exact thing that worked to legalize it in the first place.

 

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by Serowbot on 07/14/19 at 12:10:10


36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
What will our society BE when you lefties decide it's okay now?
Describe what you want.
May I go ahead and state that I'm gonna get
Krikkits?
What do you imagine comes next?...
Something like all people treated equal under the law?.

What are Krikkits?...Whatever, I suppose you're free to state that you're gonna' get some.


Arguing morality with the Godless is rarely productive.
You can stop any time you like.


Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by thumperclone on 07/14/19 at 16:59:56


47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Ohhh, you're so right. It's about consent..  But that's NOW...  And there was a Time when it was not socially acceptable for people to engage in homosexual behavior, BUT, that social norm got rewritten, didn't it? And what Followed THAT? So, what's the Next STEP? It's got Zero to do with any phobia, it's all about seeing the trend, the direction, and seeing that Next Step.
Or, are you saying you lefties are finished with your remaking society?
What's your Next NECESSARY step to create the ideological society you atheists have decided we need to step Forward?
What will our society BE when you lefties decide it's okay now?
Describe what you want.
May I go ahead and state that I'm gonna get
Krikkits?

Arguing morality with the Godless is rarely productive.

GODLESS?   WTF is THAT

Title: Re: Power, money, and sex....
Post by thumperclone on 07/14/19 at 17:03:03

do you or ray have some scripture from the CHRIST to back up your phobias???

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