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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rear Pulley Wobble Fix /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1561964431 Message started by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:00:30 |
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Title: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:00:30 The drive pulley wobble issue has received a bit of attention on the forum. Over time, the ball bearing that supports the pulley hub wears and allows the pulley to skew. This causes the belt to rub on the vertical rails on the pulley, and you end up with this screwy belt whine. Dave came up with a nice fix where you machine the inner boss on the drive hub to accept a bushing. The bushing provides additional support for the hub and pulley, which mitigates the cocking. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1428436529/4#4 The stock setup utilizes a single-row deep-groove ball bearing in the cushion drive hub. The single-row bearing is OK for the radial load but doesn’t provide a lot of support for side loads or cocking loads. I have fixed this problem on several metric sport bikes that had cushion drives. Double-row angular-contact ball bearings worked great on those sport bikes, but I had to machine entirely new drive hubs to accommodate the wider double row bearing. I decided to see if I could modify the LS650 drive hub, or fabricate an entirely new hub that would accommodate a double row bearing. As it turns out, the stock hub will accept the wider bearing just fine. I utilized a sealed bearing and simply left out the stock hub seal. I think it will work just fine. Probably not good if you are constantly riding in the pouring rain, or if you intend to race the Baja peninsula, but for simple street cruizin it should fit the bill. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:02:57 I found a suitable bearing on eBay for $16 (delivered). The vendor is Quality Bearings Belts & Chains, Lexington, KY 40509 (www.qualitybearingsbeltsandchain.com). The bearing is a 5305-2RS, item number 111730106826. This is an extremely inexpensive, Chinese bearing. A similar SKF bearing costs about $112. Generally, I wouldn’t bite on a deal like this. I would be skeptical of the quality (you get what you pay for). But I figured it would be worth $16 to try the mod out. If it works good, I might consider springing for the gold standard bearing. What the heck, I’ll keep an eye on it. I may end up just leaving the Chinese bearing in place as long as it doesn’t misbehave. The only machining that must be accomplished is to turn down a shoulder on the left side wheel spacer. Very easy to do. I did the entire job in three hours this afternoon. I started by measuring how much side play/wobble I had on the pulley rim. Set up a dial indicator and use your hands to wobble the pulley right and left. Mine had .070” wobble. Boy, that’s a lot considering the bike only has 3500 miles on it |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:04:09 I removed the rear wheel assembly. The pulley and hub just pull off by hand. In anticipation of doing this mod I had previously purchased a used hub on eBay. I removed the bearing seal and took a look. There’s plenty of room for the duplex bearing if you leave the stock grease seal out. I’m using a sealed bearing so I don’t think I will need the stock seal. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:05:01 Here’s a look at the single row bearing next to the double row bearing. You can get a feel for how much wider the double row bearing is. The stock inner spacer fits perfectly into the new bearing. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:05:59 I cleaned up the new hub and put it in the BBQ. Fired it up and toasted the hub for 1 hour at 250°F. Pulled it out of the oven and quickly installed the new bearing (gotta move fast, don’t want the hub to cool off) The new bearing dropped right into the hub, “clunk”. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:06:54 As I mentioned, the only machining that has to be accomplished is to turn down a shoulder on the existing left side wheel spacer. The shoulder fits snug in the new bearing and maintains the proper pinch on the inner race. This is a shot of the left side wheel spacer after machining. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:07:39 This is a sketch of the modified spacer. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:08:27 I assembled the rear wheel and checked the wobble. You can’t feel any wobble when you try to rock the pulley right and left but dial indicators don’t lie. The pulley now moves .007” when you rock it right and left by hand. Pretty good. Here’s the finished product. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/01/19 at 00:09:53 The pulley is solid as a rock now. A short ride was music to my ears. The howling belt is a thing of the past. Hope this post proves useful to some of you. It’s a very simple fix and looks like it should work well. I will be checking it periodically to make sure that the bearing is holding up. I’ll keep you posted. Knowledge is power. Best regards, Mike |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/01/19 at 03:33:27 Good fix DBM......and I would think the seal on that bearing is just as good as the stock seal and will keep everything but water from a pressure washer from getting inside the bearing. It you wanted to improve the seals ability....maybe you could install a small shield (flange) on the spacer to prevent a direct splash at the edge of the seal. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 07/01/19 at 21:51:00 Great fix Mike The last time I got a warrant of fitness the tester remarked on the pulley wobble and the bike had only done 6000 Kms at that stage I managed to talk him round that it is Ok and he passed it but it does seem a weakness with the savage but you have solved it! A neoprene disc tight on the spacer would help the seal but not that necessary I feel I have had experience with sealed bearings in worse environments than that with no problems Thanks for sharing I have another project now! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 07/02/19 at 06:55:06 Beautiful work! Since I live in Sweden I will probably try to get a SKF bearing, but I was wondering if a dual row ball bearing is better that a single row roller bearing. When I compare load ratings between two similar bearings, one roller and dual row ball, the roller bearing seem to handle a lot more: https://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/roller-bearings/cylindrical-roller-bearings/single-row-full-complement-cylindrical-roller-bearings/single-row-full-complement/index.html?designation=NJG%202305%20VH |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/03/19 at 00:46:04 I think the roller bearing would probably work fine but I'm not sure how well it deals with the skew. I imagine the offset load on the pulley just shifts the contact point on the double row ball bearing since the balls and races are arced. On the roller bearing I'm not sure how things will behave. Will the skew edge load the rollers? I never considered a roller but it might be better than the duplex ball. IMO, load isn't the issue. Either bearing is rated for more than the savage can produce. I think its the skew that causes the problem. Got a little over 50 miles on the Chinese bearing and it's still solid as a rock. I checked it a few times to see if it gets hot. I can place my hand on it and its barely warm. I think its gonna be OK. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/03/19 at 04:01:19 I have no doubt the double ball bearing is going to work great. If the single row bearing is "adequate" with the eccentric load that is putting a "skew" pressure on the bearing .....the double row bearing is going to be far superior as the load is now converted to load that is concentrated in the centerline of the races (where it belongs). The stock single row bearing doesn't wear on the centerline of the races.....it wears on the sides and allows the wobble to set in with very low mileage. The majority of Savage riders don't realize how much pulley wobble they have, as the chrome cover makes it somewhat difficult to grab the pulley and wobble it back and forth. I will check the wobble that I have on the pulley with the bushing installed. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/05/19 at 07:38:31 My 07 doesn't have wobble yet at 18K miles. For that matter the OEM petcock still works as it should. However, I have good proof of how bad the wobble can get. The used driven pulley I recently purchased has extreme wear on the teeth for the belt. Each tooth is gets skinnier from one side of the pulley to the other. Or is that just a sign of unequal tension adjustment? I'd be mad about it but I only wanted the hub anyway. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 07/05/19 at 19:10:46 I checked my 2012 today 7500 kms pulley wobble .072 inch or 1.8 mm as I measured it I dont own a dial test indicator but I found by clamping the pulley rim against the swing arm with a pad under to protect the paint a good measurement can be obtained between the rim and the underside of the belt guard bracket with a Vernier caliper Then by tapping a wooden wedge in the top side of the bracket the rim can be pushed the other way to make another measurement. This amount of wobble seems to be normal for these bikes and the modifications above to correct it seems well worthwhile to me. Squeaking Noise and belt life are two good reasons |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by zipidachimp on 07/05/19 at 22:06:25 Someone with a lathe/mill could start a small business doing S40 improvement parts; hint, hint...! cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/08/19 at 07:02:33 Over the weekend I did a bunch of 2 up riding with my teenage son on the back and what do you know. I certainly have pulley wobble now! That and I did a long peel out to amuse the kid too. Must have been the last straw... |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/08/19 at 08:49:04 I got out my dial indicator to measure the wobble on my bike....I modified my pulley with a brass bushing that is mounted on the end of the pulley hub and inserts into the wheel hub. I was surprised to discover there is "zero" free wobble.....you can make the dial indicator move if you pull hard enough to make things move under stress - but no 'free play". The pulley rotates easily in the direction of rotation a few degrees until the rubber cushions engage - but there is no wobble to be found. I guess this is reasonable as the bushing is a slip fit into the wheel hub without any appreciable wiggle....and the wheel hub bearing is a high speed sealed bearing that is relatively new. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/08/19 at 15:01:11 Looks like your bushing fix is top notch Dave. How many miles do you have on it now? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/08/19 at 15:55:17 My first post on it was in 2016......so I suspect there are 3 riding seasons on it. That is likely 3,000 to 5,000 miles overall. (Having more than 1 bike makes it hard to rack up miles on the Cafe....which is my bike for riding when it is sunny and warm and I don't need luggage or a passenger). I believe either method is superior to the single row bearing that Suzuki blessed us with. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/09/19 at 20:28:18 I just measured up two pulley carriers and one hub. One carried to hub combo had over .020" clearance, and one had less than .005". I'm guessing the tighter one would be fine, and the looser one would benefit from some love. As luck would have it, the looser fit carrier is the one I've done a bunch of machining to (adding Drillium, changing studs to bolts, other pointless stuff). So, I guess I'll go with the double row ball conversion DBM came up with. Thanks to all for the smart thinking. -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/10/19 at 03:54:38 16253A3239570 wrote:
Armen: I notice the same thing.....an early pulley hub from a 1995 model had 0.005" of clearance - while later models had a lot of clearance. In the following link I posted photos of the grease that was in the assembly, and you can see the marks left when I pulled them apart. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1480506578 It appears that Suzuki intended the pulley hub and wheel hub to interlock to prevent the wobble - but made the clearance too big on later models and the eccentric load causes wear in the single row ball bearing. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/10/19 at 05:32:56 Thanks to Dave and DBM for all the research and smart ideas. A few thoughts: I wonder if we are looking at this as the tail wagging the dog? Part of the reason the pulley carrier is wobbling may be the loose fit of the gazzinta spacer on the axle. It seems to be a decent fit into the carrier bearing, but if it is a loose fit on the axle, the carrier can rock back and forth. I had made a new gazzinta spacer out of some kind of hard aluminum (forgot what kind) to save a few ounces. I'm tempted to make another with only a few thou of clearance between it's ID and the axle OD. I ordered a double row bearing. I'll make a new left side spacer with a shoulder as DBM showed, also with the ID only lightly larger than the axle OD. Maybe with all that, the carrier won't be able to wobble and murder the carrier bearing? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/10/19 at 06:37:15 Armen: The spacer is a bit of a loose fit on the axle....until you tighten everything up. All the spacers and inner bearing races are clamped together when the axle nut is tightened.....I don't believe any of that can move around once it is assembled and torqued. The loose fitting item is restricted to the pulley hub.....there is just a single row bearing trying to keep it in alignment, and that is not durable enough to keep the pulley in alignment for a bunches of miles, and the bearing is subject to an axial load that it really was never designed to handle. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/10/19 at 10:27:30 Dave, If the carrier is wobbling, there is play somewhere. Once the bearing is toast, than that becomes the source of the wobble. Before that, it'd have to be the clearance between the bearing and the bore in the carrier, and the inner race to the gazzinta spacer. So, I'm going with the double wide bering, new, tighter spacers, and the left spacer shouldering into the outer part of the bearing. That should do it :-) Not a big deal. The only part that hurts my feelings is that I bought and installed a new single row 2RS bearing, a new seal, and made a captive outer spacer (held in place with the seal. Ah well. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/10/19 at 14:57:17 Armen: The pulley hub is only attached to the outer race of the single row bearing in the pulley hub (because there is too much clearance where the pulley hub inserts into the wheel hub), and that is where the wobble comes from once the single row bearing gets some wear. I really don't believe that any of the inner races of the wheel bearings, pulley hub bearing, or the spacers get any movement once the axle is tightened and locks them in place. The double row bearing is a good fix and Kudos to DragBikeMike.....but if you already have the single row bearing and can put a bushing on the hub - it has been working just fine on my bike for the last 6,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/10/19 at 15:12:55 I agree with Dave, the clearance between the axle and spacers isn't the source of the wobble. Once you tighten up the axle nut the spacers pinch the inner race of the bearing and lock it in place. If you do the Double Row Bearing mod, you have to make sure that the faces of the inner and outer spacers do not touch. That way, you will be assured that the inner race is pinched. It won't hurt to make the clearance between the spacer ID and the axle OD tighter, and it will improve concentricity between the axle and the pully OD (always nice to maintain concentricity, its all good). I used the stock inner spacer and I modified the stock outer spacer, so concentricity should remain within factory spec. The critical measurement is the shoulder length. You want that to be .338" or a little less to make sure that the inner race gets pinched. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/10/19 at 15:15:24 Thanks for the thoughts guys. Double row bearing is on the way. Sounds like a good fix. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/12/19 at 19:13:29 Place I ordered my wheel bearings from caries this bearing too. http://bearingdepot.com/5305-2RS_Bearing?search=5305 I stopped in at the machine shop up the street and was told they can turn down the spacer for me no problem. So I'm gonna go with this mod since I got wobbles. Weird thing is my wobbling changes each day. Some days it's bad and others it's hardly there. Not sure what to make of this. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 07/13/19 at 17:27:56 [ [ quote] Weird thing is my wobbling changes each day. Some days it's bad and others it's hardly there. Not sure what to make of this.[/quote] I am finding the same thing ....Very weird I have ordered a 5305 2rs bearing and when it arrives will open up the rear pulley hub and investigate My plan at the moment is fit the new bearing and make up the clearance between pulley carrier and wheel hub with anti sieze coated brass shim stock. Any comments? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/13/19 at 18:57:17 Hiko wrote: "My plan at the moment is fit the new bearing and make up the clearance between pulley carrier and wheel hub with anti sieze coated brass shim stock. Any comments?" Hiko, you don't need to take up any clearance between the pulley carrier and wheel hub. Simply install the 5305-2RS bearing and modify the left-side outer spacer as shown. When its all back together and the axle nut tight, the wobble will be LG (long gone). |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/13/19 at 19:35:20 So, is the single row bearing wobbling in the carrier when the aluminum gets warm and expands? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 07/13/19 at 20:42:05 Armen The measurements I took showing excessive wobble were taken when all was cold I think the stock single row bearing is just poor at holding the pulley in line Drag Bike Mike I think you are right The new bearing is a big improvement on its own I have a tendency to overcomplicate things |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/15/19 at 08:16:40 I just dropped my spacer off for modification. The president of the company, Rich, is an old motorcycle enthusiast so he's a friend to riders needing work for their bikes and says he doesn't mind at all if others send their spacers to him for this modification. http://hartzellmachineworks.com/ He also said that a quantity discount would be applied if we wanted to do a group buy type deal. For one individual spacer he charges $25. You have to provide the spacer. If the group discount is appealing let me know and I'll discuss it further with him and get a quote. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Fast 650 on 07/15/19 at 09:52:12 Do you know anyone who has a CNC lathe? That would keep the cost down a lot. Other than the setup time, it would only take about 3 minutes each to make them from raw stock. Then you could package the new spacers with the double row bearing and sell them as an upgrade kit. No down time waiting to have the stock spacer machined that way. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 07/15/19 at 11:20:16 Quote:
I know a local company here in Sweden that can probably do this if I get the exact measurements. I guess the best would be to bulk ship them to the US and have someone ship single units nationally. I can ask them for a rough price estimate. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Fast 650 on 07/16/19 at 11:31:38 7th post on the first page of this thread has a drawing with measurements. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/17/19 at 05:41:28 A CNC lathe to turn a shoulder on a spacer is like a nuclear powered pencil sharpener. Kinda unnecessary overkill. I have a basic lathe and could easily do the deed. If someone needs one turned down, I'd gladly do it for $25 and shipping. I'll dig around and see if I have a stock one. Now I have to figure out where the original spacer is.... |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 06:04:26 Rather than shipping a stock spacer back and forth, why not just turn a bunch of new spacers and sell them? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/17/19 at 06:08:54 It's a trade off, the extra time to cut, face, bore, etc a piece of round stock vs the cost of postage. And the initial cost of the material. I made mine out of aluminum. Always looking to save a few grams, and it machines faster. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Fast 650 on 07/17/19 at 09:02:27 1D2E3139325C0 wrote:
Which is why I suggested CNC. Program the machine, load the feeder, hit start, and let it run for a few hours. As simple as that spacer is, it should only take about 3 minutes per part to make them from steel. Aluminum would be even quicker. If we weren't keeping the CNC lathe at work tied up 16 hours a day I would squeeze in a run of them myself. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 07/17/19 at 09:49:20 4F687A7D3F3C39090 wrote:
And there is the problem......the Savage fold is very small, and it is likely that whoever makes these will have a hard time selling 15 or 20 of them - we are a cheap bunch and not everyone is going to worry about their pulley wobbling. It just isn't worthwhile for somebody to dedicate their expensive CNC to make these parts in 3 minutes......then take the time to market, ship and sell them to make couple of bucks in the process. If you got a lathe and can make your own - Cool! If you have a friend that can machine one for you - Also Cool! If you pay Armen to do it for you - Really Cool! If you want to go into the business of making them - Also Cool - it will be hard for you to break even on the process........unless you get the materials and machine time really cheap. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 10:05:23 0F283A3D7F7C79490 wrote:
I think you have an 8-hour window to get'er done! ;D And I agree with Dave. That said, I would be more likely to pay $25 for a completed part than having to take mine off, ship it somewhere, and wait for its return. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/17/19 at 10:16:05 Just ordered a used spacer from Ebay. Just the thing for my rumored abundant spare time ;D |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 10:32:03 I have a funny feeling that Armen's spacer is going to look like swiss cheese when he get done with it. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Fast 650 on 07/17/19 at 11:08:43 383F3E383A382338570 wrote:
This is one of the parts we run on the CNC, about half the size of the Savage spacer. The boss says it costs about 18 cents to make this part and it makes this part in 90 seconds. So making pulley spacers would be nearly as cheap and almost as quick other than the time to write the program. I have made a lot of things like that for mine already, even the motor mount spacer at the crankcase in the front. The mount plates at the head are also aluminum. The benefits of working at a shop that builds parts for race cars. ;) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 07/17/19 at 11:25:50 I would imagine 18 cents is on a run of 1000s of that part. To Daves point, will there be enough of a market? What's the market willing to pay? Half the guys on here would just machine their own. I'm guessing that the majority of LS650 owners either don't know about this site or don't know or care about pully wobble or are too cheap to pay enough to make it worth your while. Or they might even be like me. I'm more likely to simply replace my single bearing more often because it's simple and I want to keep the mechanical aspects of my bike as "stock" as possible. I love what Dave and Mike have done to address the problem. I am interested in this mod but I just swapped out my rear pully with a used one I had lying around andy my wobble is gone for the time being. I might just buy a spare OEM bearing and toss it on next time I change the rear tire if needed. :-/ :-/ |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Fast 650 on 07/17/19 at 11:48:19 True. But like you said, I would be much more likely to buy a bearing and spacer as a kit than to take mine apart, send it off to be machined, and have the downtime waiting for the part then. And I am not so concerned with keeping mine stock like you are. Mine is modified cosmetically quite a bit, but is done in such a way that it appears to have been made that way originally. Mechanically, more than a few of my engine parts have found their way into the shop late at night for some "after hours" modifications. Since my engine is considerably healthier than stock the double row bearing would be a good thing in my case. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/17/19 at 12:22:24 Mines is done and waiting for me to pick up. When they called they explained the bill to me. Their standard rate is $100/hr and with setup my spacer was a 15 minute job. So $25 for that. Most of the time is setup. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/17/19 at 12:53:13 Oh boy, look what was in the mailbox 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/17/19 at 16:10:46 Here's my spacer. And the brand new Superbrace I scored for $120 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/18/19 at 07:38:32 Nice! I have a similar brace for my forks. Seems like I have a few spacers on the way. Guess I'm modifying spacers.... |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by philthymike on 07/18/19 at 07:53:56 Ryca had the brace on sale. I couldn't pass up such a deal. I guess we're all spacey over this ;) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/21/19 at 16:52:08 5 spacers cut down and ready to go. See the marketplace section. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 07/25/19 at 21:50:19 Did this mod today $12 chinese bearing Big difference cannot detect any wobble at all now by hand There must be some but negligible Hope to road test the results when this weather clears but it must make a difference to the belt noise It used to squeak under acceleration before Many thanks to Drag Bike Mike for coming up with this. Edit:07/28/19 Now had a chance to road test this modification for 100ks or so Not only has the squeak gone but a lot of other noises that I did not know were belt related Very quiet and smooth compared with before Recommend this simple mod |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 10/08/19 at 06:31:16 I got a spacer from Armen and did this mod. It was easy and seems to work great. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 10/08/19 at 06:37:05 Thanks Ohio! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Jdvt600 on 06/06/20 at 10:24:19 181E116D6F686C5C0 wrote:
Hey all, How is the bearing holding up? I assume no complaints indicate they are holding up just fine. I've just ordered the bearing (5305-2RS, item number 111730106826) from Ebay today and Armen is shipping a spacer out. Looking to install them week after next. I'm a novice shade tree mechanic with a Clymers manual. Installation seems straight forward from DBMs original post. Disassemble then heat up the hub in a bbq to 250 and plop the wider bearing in, reassemble. I'll reread everything before I attempt but are there any gotchas I should note? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/20 at 10:38:08 If I have a bearing I need I take it to the local Bearing Supply house,, where they measure and find one.. For the lawnmower belt spindle it takes 2,, and I can go to the lawnmower place and get them for just over twice what I pay at the supply house,, where, BTW, they Also sell belts for a LOT less munnee than the lawnmower place,, that most likely buys their stock from the place I now go.. I dont buy nuts and bolts from the hardware store either, usually,, I go to the Fastener supply house,, and get them in the number I want and prices that are LOW,, And, when its time for paint, its not Kelly Moore,, its the store that supplies the body shops in town.. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 06/06/20 at 14:56:12 JDvt 600 Nearly a year now on my cheap chinese bearing and no issues This is a very worthwhile mod IMHO |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 06/06/20 at 17:43:11 Jdvt600, I currently have 9445 miles on the odometer, so I have logged just about 6000 miles on the duplex bearing. It is just like it was the day I installed it. No wobble, no adverse noise or vibration. It is holding up well. I am comfortable with the cheap bearing. One gotcha that should be helpful. Make some sort of holder for the bearing. Something you can but in the inner race so that you can align and drop the bearing into the hot hub. It's much easier to install if you have something to hold it with. I believe I used a bolt and nut along with the inner spacer, then removed the nut and slipped the bolt out through the hub. This shows a socket head cap bolt, washer, nut, and the inner spacer. They are installed on the stock bearing. The same sort of device will work just fine on the duplex bearing. You hold the threaded portion of the bolt. It allows you to jiggle the bearing around until it aligns perfectly with the hole. Once aligned, the bearing drops right in. No pounding or pressing. Very easy. Guarantees no damage to the bearing or hub. Once the bearing is in all the way, let the hub cool completely, then remove the nut and washer. Push the bolt out and you are ready to go. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Jdvt600 on 06/07/20 at 08:02:06 @Hiko and @DragBikeMike thank you for the update! @DBM thanks a ton for that tip! I've definitely use this technique when I reassemble. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Jdvt600 on 06/15/20 at 09:55:01 Hey all. Does anyone have any pointers on removing the stock grease seal from the driven pulley without destroying it? ( @dragbikemike) If I have to I will. Even though the new bearing is sealed and I won't reuse the stock seal, it pains me slightly to rip it out destroying it in the process. I have time as the new spacer from @Armen should be arriving later this afternoon when the mailman comes. So I'm paused until then anyway. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Jdvt600 on 06/15/20 at 10:23:02 29071517555353630 wrote:
Quoting myself here. I got it out by inserting a screw driver underneath and leveraging up with the floor jack handle over the screw driver. Grease went everywhere when it popped off :P http://https://i.ibb.co/hHBcSkt/20200615-121830-HDR-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/gwSdxGB) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Jdvt600 on 06/15/20 at 14:00:56 Done. No more wobble or rubbing! Thanks to everyone on the forums especially @Dave, @DragBikeMike and @Armen for the R&D and supply of these parts! New bearing and spacer is installed. I used the 250 degree bbq method with a carrier and the bearing went "plop" right were it needed to. I will admit, I was impatient at first and waited only 10 mins of heating, the bearing only went halfway. Waited 55 mins next time and all went smoothly. A lot of this is/was new to me. One hangup that caused me a few moments of head scratching, the custom spacer from @Armen is a "left hand". As mentioned in this post http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1119775997, the rear axel is reversed in the image within the Clymers manual. Common sense prevailed and everything went smoothly. Looking forward to more community mods in the future! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/15/20 at 06:37:39 I have basically NO experience with working on vehicles of any kind and I don't fully understand how the rear tire assembly and the associated bearings work and what forces are in play but I was wondering if it's possible or maybe even preferable to use a single row tapered bearing? https://www.skf.com/group/products/rolling-bearings/roller-bearings/tapered-roller-bearings/single-row-tapered-roller-bearings/productid-32305 |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 09/15/20 at 14:28:14 Kamel, Not at all. Even if you completely reengineered the whole ass end and had a new hub/pulley carrier made, it'd still be a worse idea. FWIW, the last mass produced bikes to use tapered roller wheel bearings were Harley in 2000, before them BMW in 1984. An idea who's time has passed. If 200+ HP bikes are happy with ball bearings, I think they're ok on 30 HP Savages. Plus, setting up the shimming/preload is a pain. Not sure how you'd do it without making a new hub/carrier. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 09/15/20 at 17:27:00 Put the double row sealed ball bearing in You wont regret it |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/16/20 at 02:08:55 Thank you Hiko and Armen. I am curious by nature and question EVERYTHING. I will have a look at the rear wheel hub and pulley assembly and get a better understanding of how it all works. I am pretty sure DragBikeMike's solution is the best but I always challenge ideas and I mean no disrespect with it. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 09/16/20 at 06:00:42 Hey Kamel, At one point tapered rollers for wheels were considered the best way to go. When BMW was doing it, it was a sign of them making the effort to make the best set-up. There is an outfit that offers a sealed ball bearing conversion for the old Airheads, and I copied it for one of mine. Mentioning it on the Airhead list brought a barrage of poop slinging like you can't imagine. The reality is, that with a large enough ball bearing, you make up for any of the theoretical advantages of a tapered roller in terms of being able to tolerate loads from all directions. The advantage of the ball bearing is that it's sealed and you essentially forget it. With a tapered roller you'd have to set up some way to shim the inner spacer to have basically no play. And the bearings need to come apart, be cleaned, re-shimmed, and repacked occasionally. In this particular application, the double row ball bearing keeps the pulley carrier from wobbling. If anything, the tapered roller might allow a bit of wobble. By all means try it out, though. Take pics and let us know how it works. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/17/20 at 11:23:44 I took a closer look at the pulley today and I think I found a way to improve it even further. The original bearing is a 6305 ball bearing. A single row bearing with a 25mm ID and 62mm OD and a width of 17mm. Inside that bearing sits a bushing that has an edge on it and two ends with OD 25mm and ID 17mm. On the opposite side of the 62mm bearing inside the pulley thingy there is nothing supporting the bushing but a 37x25mm bearing could be fitted there to remedy this and make it even sturdier. One slight problem is that the inside diameter of the aluminium part is slightly larger than 37mm so a 37mm bearing wont sit as tight as it should. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/17/20 at 11:31:32 I was thinking one could put the whole thing in a lathe and widen the hole to 38mm and fit a ball bearing or even a needle roller bearing. That would give the bushing a LOT of support in both ends almost eliminating any chance of wobble. NKI 25/20 is a needle roller bearing that seem to fit with just a little bit of machining. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 09/17/20 at 12:17:57 Kamelryttarn, I can report that the bargain-basement 5305-2RS is holding up well. I have logged about 7500 miles on it and it's still solid as a rock, no pulley wobble, no problems at all. Still looks good too. This is such a simple modification. There really is no need to go any farther. Pop in the duplex bearing. Do the simple mod to the spacer. Ride it. How's your project goin? As I recall, you picked up a totally beat Savage. Swing arm bearings were disintegrated. Steering stem frozen. You had some top end work to do. All your posts show nice clean work on your part. You must be getting close to firing it up. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/20/20 at 00:40:07 I took a few measurements of the pulley and this is a rough sketch of the current configuration |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 09/20/20 at 00:40:48 And here is the suggested modification with a needle roller on the opposite side of the original ball bearing |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by tinnyfacexd on 10/20/20 at 03:13:11 Just ordered the bearing, the wobble on my pulley was insane today. way worse than I've ever seen it before. Will take a spare spacer down to the machinist later this week. How far in does the shoulder need to be turned? Also thanks DragBikeMike for this simple yet (hopefully) effective mod! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 10/20/20 at 06:21:33 Hey Tinny Look on the first page of this thread for DBM's drawing with dimensions. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 10/20/20 at 06:23:24 Kamel, How is it you are side loading the needle bearing? I don't see how the rotational load of the outer bearing is being transferred thru the needle bearing. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 10/20/20 at 07:00:46 7D4E5159523C0 wrote:
Not sure I fully understand your question. Inside the original bearing there is a bushing and my idea was to have a bearing on each end of that bushing to better deal with the forces since the belt pulley as far as I can see is not centered on the factory installed bearing. I have not made the modification on my own pulley yet since I need to get a boring head and some suitable boring bars before I can modify mine. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 10/20/20 at 16:04:40 I'm guessing I have put 5-6k miles on my bike since doing this mod and the pulley is still solid as a rock. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 10/20/20 at 16:28:41 Kamelryttarn, I'm sorry to say that your modification will not work. When you tighten the axle the inner race of the ball bearing MUST be pinched in order to set the axial position of the drive hub and to lock the inner race to the axle. Both conditions are mandatory. The duplex ball bearing modification is cheap and simple. It works perfectly and lasts a long time. I advise you to just install the duplex ball bearing. This markup of your sketch might help. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by badwolf on 10/20/20 at 19:46:51 DBM, I think his idea might work, IF, he made a fancy spacer to go between the 2 bearings. The squeeze load would have to be carryed by the inner races without touching the outer races. I don't know if the needle bearing's inner race would take it thou. I did the duplex conversion on my 2 bikes and it works great. Simple and effective. I have a old Atlas lathe at home for tinkering but his idea would still be a lot of work. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 10/20/20 at 19:52:09 Just so I'm clear. Replacing #15 with a double bearing. Discarding #16. Machining #19. Armen are you still machining the spacer for folks? If so, do you require a spacer to be sent to you? http://https://i.postimg.cc/K8dk9C2x/Pully.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by badwolf on 10/20/20 at 20:07:02 You have got it right. Measure the 2 bearings width to get the differnce, that is how much has to be cut as a shoulder on #19. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 10/20/20 at 20:17:37 Thanks! I have DBM's drawing also. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 10/20/20 at 20:25:46 Hi Bob, I've just moved so who knows where the spacers I had are :-0 If you send one, it makes things much easier. thanks BTW, Yamaha uses a needle bearing on the rear wheel of the R6. Can't remember how they do the spacers so the load is transferred properly. for the Savage, it seems like a lot of work to find a solution that is at best, as good as the one DBM came up with. As I often said to my students, "Sure, you could probably come up with a way to do root canal through someone's butthole, but wouldn't it be easier to just ask them to open their mouth?" |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 10/20/20 at 20:45:30 5B68777F741A0 wrote:
I have two S40's so will send you two spacers. I will PM. Also, in looking for 5205-2RS bearings, I note W5205-2RS bearings. I can't determine what the W means. Anyone know if there is any difference? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 10/20/20 at 20:57:02 Awesome Bob! thanks! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by kamelryttarn on 10/20/20 at 22:02:07 If my calculations and measurements are correct I can use the original spacer as intended and it will pinch in the way you describe DBM. It will float freely sideways and protrude out past the needle roller to meet up with the wheel hub surface it is supposed to. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 10/21/20 at 01:03:33 3C2326213B29264E0 wrote:
My understanding is the W prefix denotes a stainless steel bearing |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 10/21/20 at 05:46:32 7A4F5C5850583D0 wrote:
Even better! Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/06/21 at 09:30:09 Went to replace single row bearing with double row bearing and found this. Hard to know if a scratch or crack, but will be checking further. Anyone ever seen this? http://https://i.postimg.cc/vZPyNmWT/IMG-0750.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 03/06/21 at 09:57:43 Nope.....never seen that before. If is is a crack - get another one without the crack. Used ones are cheap on eBay. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/06/21 at 10:12:20 Thanks, yes, I have an eBay one on order to have ready just in case. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Ruttly on 03/06/21 at 10:24:25 Poor mans crack detector , spray it with brake clean hold a old style incandescent bulb close to item , brake clean will evaporate off surface first highlighting crack until it evaporates , repeat as necessary. Cheap and effective. Old school stuff. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 03/06/21 at 16:42:06 Well it is probably me but I dont know what the photo is of is it the new bearing? The old one ? the spacer? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 03/06/21 at 17:52:55 Best I can tell it is the side of the pulley hub - the pulley would bolt onto the flat area at the top of the photo......you are looking at the side. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/07/21 at 09:41:43 Yes, Dave is correct. #14 in the drawing. http://https://i.postimg.cc/K8dk9C2x/Pully.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/18/21 at 14:58:25 OK, I received my replacement Drive Pulley Hub. I'm ready to reinstall. I see the torque for the bolts is listed in Table 1 as "Mounting Nuts" at 36-51 ft-lbs. But what is "Drive Pulley Nut" with a torque of 73-94 ft-lbs? I don't see any Drive Pulley Nut listed anywhere else. What am I missing? http://https://i.postimg.cc/8P53q3cM/tourque.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 03/18/21 at 15:27:55 I think that's the big MoFo on the front sprocket. I'd favor the lower end of the torque range on the rear pulley nuts. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/18/21 at 16:06:21 Ahhh....thank you! That aligns with another section in the Clymer book. Small but important distinction between Driven Pulley and Drive Pulley. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by badwolf on 03/18/21 at 17:06:16 You should only need to take off the drive pulley if you need to get the belt off, or to change to a bigger pulley. ( 25 tooth Kaw. from Dave ) When you need to get it off, the best way is with a electric impact wrench. Just put it in first and hit it. To torque it down, you will need to lock-up the rear wheel, with the brake, or thru the wheel. ( tough on the spokes, but if you have changed to a cast wheel no problem ) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/18/21 at 17:36:04 Fortunately, I don't need to pull the drive pulley off. I was confused about the reference to drive pulley nut as I wanted make sure I was clear about the driven pulley nuts before I started torqueing. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 03/19/21 at 12:11:37 BobH, glad you are on the road to recovery. What did you find out about the crack? Were you able to determine conclusively that the visual indication was indeed a crack, or was it a scratch? Can you take a picture of the face of the pulley hub and post it? If it's a crack, the linear indication should run down the face as shown in my markup circled in red. It would be beneficial to us all if we knew more about your drive hub. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/22/21 at 11:14:27 Hi Mike, The bike is all back together. The Double Row Bearing slipped right in with a clunk just as described here. Armen's spacer was a perfect fit. Thank you Armen! Lot's of discussion here about aligning the belt vs. aligning the wheel with the axle notches. I aligned the belt exactly in the center of the driven sprocket and the notches followed along and aligned perfectly. So, very happy with the end result. I did not determine precisely if I had a crack or not. I did try to clean it with solvent, but it did remain visible although lighter. I just didn't like the squiggly nature of the line, which is more reminiscent of a crack than a scratch. $10 for a pristine eBay one and free shipping, so it wasn't worth checking any further. I'll send it to you on my dime if you're curious. In the first pic, you can faintly see the line coming up to the edge. The second is a closeup of the same area, but you can't see the line. http://https://i.postimg.cc/k5L56msb/IMG-0812.jpghttp://https://i.postimg.cc/fRLW8Lgd/IMG-0814.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 03/22/21 at 11:41:30 Most welcome! Glad it worked out! Gotta give a shout out to DBM for inventing the fix. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/22/21 at 12:25:10 Yes, a big thank you to DBM for sure! A great fix and easy to implement! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 03/22/21 at 22:38:01 I have done around 6000 km since doing this mod by Dragbikemike At the same time I rubbed beeswax on the sides of the belt Total silence from the belt now Squeaking and chirping no more ! Suzuki are you there ? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/26/21 at 20:08:47 Went out riding with a group today. First long ride with the new bearing. Since I am not a long time experienced rider, I did not expect to notice a difference with the double row bearing, but the bike felt more stable especially around corners. Before it seemed a little squirrely, now it was very stable. I was much more relaxed. Don't know if it was my imagination, but it sure seemed better. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 03/27/21 at 05:00:51 I think that might be your imagination. On a side note. Group riding is one of the most dangerous ways to spend time on a motorcycle. Google it. At the very least, you'll understand what can go wrong and possibly save your life. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 03/27/21 at 10:14:51 292E2F292B293229460 wrote:
On our group rides the largest group we ever had that I was on was about 9, and our trip to Texas in a few weeks will have 6 or 7 bikes. For a group of 2 or 3 other riders is the easiest and most fun. As you add more than 4 bikes it becomes difficult to keep the group together. Stop signs and traffic light can break up the group, passing slow cars as a group becomes difficult, it is hard to stay close together and cars can pull out into the gaps and break up the group. I went to a motorcycle show in my home town and entered the motorcycle show, the slow race - and I also signed up for a Poker Run. The Poker Run started at a bar and most the riders were having a beer and we got a Poker Card before we rode to the next bar. There were about 60 bikes and the leaders would block intersections for us to roll through as a group. The rides between stops was somewhere around 30 minutes, and it seemed we stayed at each new bar for 30 minutes while the riders all had another beer or two! Although the scenery was good and it was nice to be riding around my old home turf - the quality of the ride was poor.........too many poor riders and motorcycles with straight pipes all around me. On the last leg the guy right in front of me had a Triumph Rocket 3 with an incredibly loud exhaust - it was very irritating to have to ride behind him. Look for a local rider that rides similarly to you, and hook up with them for rides. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by BobH on 03/27/21 at 10:26:45 Also, not sure I want to ride with folks who have a beer at every stop. Our group is never more than 7. We string out pretty good and don't worry about getting separated. It is a ride to lunch of about 20 minutes and then back. Always the same core group of old guys who long ago gave up trying to prove anything with noise and speed. Suits me just fine. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 03/27/21 at 23:17:50 As an older returning rider a few years ago I thought it wise to take a refresher riding course The end of this consisted of a group ride around the local countryside . I decided then and there that group rides were not for me I now ride solo or some times with one other on camping trips Mostly solo and wish I had got back to this years ago Very happy with the S40 and even happier with the mods done thanks to all on this site |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Tocsik on 06/28/21 at 10:34:07 The original part number posted by DBM at quality bearings isn't coming up any longer. I do see the other bearing link that a couple folks have used (http://bearingdepot.com/5305-2RS_Bearing?search=5305). Is this best option for replacing the rear bearing and doing the shoulder on the spacer? *EDIT* the part number actually comes up at their eBay store. But is the bearing from Bearing Depot and Supply possibly better quality? It's $47 vs. $16. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Hiko on 06/28/21 at 18:26:41 Like many things in life quality and prices can vary and not always in tandem. I fitted a chinese 53052rs cheap bearing nearly 2 years and 7000kms ago and have not heard a chirp or squeak since . I dont believe the rear pulley bearing is under a lot of load Make sure the bearing is 2rs [2 rubber seals] |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by stewmills on 06/30/21 at 09:09:02 487D6E6A626A0F0 wrote:
Same. I ordered two different bearings and both were chinese despite what the ebay ad said. I went ahead and used one of them and have not had issues either, and I have put some pretty agressive mountain riding trips on the bikes since. I was initially worried, but after understanding that this is a minimal load bearing that just carries the pulley I stopped worrying. I have a new spare Chinese 2rs if someone needs it for the cost of shipping. Can't remember what I paid for it (maybe $10) but it'll end up lost and never used if it sits in the garage too long. PM me if you need/want it. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Tocsik on 07/08/21 at 08:58:18 Just to verify, this is the spacer that needs the shoulder turned down, correct? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/08/21 at 10:24:11 Yes |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Tocsik on 07/10/21 at 08:55:57 Hey Armen, I PM'd you about your address. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Tocsik on 07/10/21 at 09:02:47 I have my bearing in hand and will be getting my spacer machined with the shoulder. I notice some deep grooves in the rear hub rubber dampers. There must have been more play than I thought. Just wondering, should I go ahead and leave the rubber floor mat shim in place after replacing the bearing? Or will that be too thick or otherwise problematic once the double bearing is in place? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 07/10/21 at 10:23:45 All you need is the duplex bearing and the spacer. Leave the rubber shims out. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Tocsik on 07/11/21 at 09:52:59 Is it ok to put the hub and pulley assembly in the BBQ together or best to separate? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 07/11/21 at 12:04:42 Heat gun or hair drier. Direct the heat. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 12/29/21 at 14:39:18 Somehow I couldn't resist the temptation to "over engineer" this......Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. I thought providing a little protection for the bearing seal would be nice. So I cut down the spacer for the new double bearing, and I machined a couple of washers to slide over the spacer. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 12/29/21 at 14:41:10 Then I soldered the washers onto the spacers. (I think I am one of the few fellows who still uses solder to attach steel parts together). I have some stuff going to get new Zinc Chromate plated - so I will throw these in and get them plated before I install them. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/29/21 at 14:50:58 Nice work Dave! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/21 at 15:29:54 50637C747F110 wrote:
WTF? You can't congratulate his work.. He didn't even drill it full of HOLES!! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 12/29/21 at 16:59:03 JOG: It is likely the washer did add an ounce or two. Can I let a pound of air out of the tire to make the bike lighter? Here is what it looks like assembled. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by TheSneeze on 12/29/21 at 18:11:21 Great job, Dave! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/29/21 at 19:35:33 Well, Justin, I actually made mine out of 7068 aluminum. But, if you are going to use the steel one, Dave's is pretty sweet. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/21 at 00:08:04 Heck yeah, Dave.. You can probably drop less than a whole pound |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 12/30/21 at 02:55:25 6C5F4048432D0 wrote:
I bought some aluminum to make spacers......it hasn't arrived yet. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Theduderino on 12/30/21 at 06:02:06 Armen, I haven’t forgotten about returning the spacer my bad. Also am I to understand you guys left the dampers out of the hub? What rubber shims are you guys referring to? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/30/21 at 06:09:54 Duderino, Remove the original left side seal and bearing in the pulley carrier. Install the double row bearing and new left spacer (you can Loctite the spacer into the bearing so it doesn't fall out). Leave everything else in the rear wheel the same. Def leave the dampers in the hub. Don't worry about the rubber shims. It doesn't apply to you. Make sense? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Theduderino on 12/30/21 at 11:15:15 OK, I was getting worried. Lol. Because it’s working out great I didn’t want to change anything! Still wondering why my bike is run best for the 35 pilot 158 Main |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by edgwoodri on 12/31/21 at 04:41:30 Could you make and sell this spacer with the modification? 7C7A75090B0C08380 wrote:
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/31/21 at 06:18:07 I have the modified stock spacer (cut down, no added shoulder) in stock. $30 includes shipping in the US. You have to send your old one to me. -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 12/31/21 at 07:49:50 Armen, how much for a modified space with extra holes drilled into it? I'm trying to decide if I should do that or just let a pound of air out of my tire. ;D PS, When do we get a build thread or at least some more pictures of your bike? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/31/21 at 22:20:19 Ohio Moto asked: how much for a modified space with extra holes drilled into it? I can make almost anything you can draw on the back of a large check :-) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 12/31/21 at 22:21:20 Ohio Moto asked: When do we get a build thread or at least some more pictures of your bike? I posted a bunch of pics a while ago. Not sure where to find them on the forum. I can dig them up and repost if you like. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Theduderino on 01/01/22 at 08:43:19 Sounds like they let it go without adjusting the belt to the belt was constantly riding heavy on one side |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 01/01/22 at 10:03:57 774B4647564746514A4D4C230 wrote:
Who's bike are you talking about? The sad fact is that the original single row bearing in the pulley hub eventually becomes worn, and the result is that the belt tension pulls the rear pulley crooked in relation to the rear wheel. You really can't "adjust" the pulley to be straight without making your rear wheel crooked. The test is to grab your rear pulley and see if you can wobble it (not rotate it) - if you have play and can wobble the pulley....then your rear bearing is worn and it should be replaced. Replacing it with a single row bearing will work for a while - but a double row bearing works much better! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Dave on 01/08/22 at 16:37:44 OK.....I had an extra hour today. In fact I have pretty much been in the garage all week long when I could stay awake. Deb and I both got Covid and we have been isolating all week. For us it was like having a really bad cold with a stuffy nose and head, an ON/OFF fever for 1 day, and a mild headache and lack of energy. Wednesday was my worst day for energy and I took a nap every 2 hours! It took just about a week for us to get through it......we really had pretty mild symptoms and it was just inconvenient and tedious getting through it. So......now that I am nearly normal again I was able to take an hour at the lathe and make my own aluminum spacer. I didn't taper both ends like Armen.....I just tapered it enough to match the OD of the original spacer and left the bearing end as large as the inner race of the pulley hub bearing. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 01/08/22 at 21:14:46 Nice! Glad you are feeling better. Covid sucks. Did you get the shots? |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 04/02/22 at 12:11:30 I recently had to change my rear tire, so I took the opportunity to inspect the duplex bearing. I installed it at 3500 miles and the odometer is now reading just over 27,000. So, the bearing has about 23,500 miles on it. It still looks great. It has a little rust here and there but mostly looks the same as it did when I installed it. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 04/02/22 at 12:14:50 Pulley wobble hasn't changed a bit. It's still exactly .007". That says a lot for the Chinese bearing. I guess my concern was unwarranted. I checked the rotation when the hub was off and it's smooth as silk. This modification looks like a keeper. |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by ohiomoto on 04/02/22 at 19:22:06 DMB, Kudos on the great mod. But I have a question. How the heck do you get that many miles on your bike with all of the downtimes for experiments?!!!! |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by DragBikeMike on 04/03/22 at 17:46:31 Thanks Ohio. I have a spare engine and a ton of spare parts. It allows me to keep the bike operational when I make a big repair or do a mod. That way I can keep testing things and learning. I am retired and I live in a place with a warm climate. I can ride all year round. I just love tinkering with the thing. Learn something new every day. Also have the good fortune of being on this forum where everyone is so willing to share. Sweet deal all the way around. I'm kinda in the long-haul test mode now. Pretty much finished up with squeezing power out of the engine, so now I want to see how well the various setups hold up. That mandates that I ride more often and go for longer distances. I usually can do 80 to 120 miles a day. It's especially nice in the morning. I cruise along the ocean and enjoy life. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Ruttly on 05/26/23 at 10:02:21 This upgrade is a must , belt or chain , keeps your pulley/sprocket running true. The stock bearing is ok but this setup is as good as it gets. Every savage should have this upgrade. do it ! two cent |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by LuckyLuna on 09/10/23 at 10:04:11 Ok, Im running into issues. I'm trying to use the bbq method here, and the new bearing is not just slipping in. It get about 2 to 3 centimeters in then gets stuck. Luckly I was able to get it out. Any other ideas? Would putting the bearing in the freezer, reheating the pully help? should I just call around and see who can put it in? Edit: I got it in! Just took a bit of hammering. Also, wierd how it was kinda a pain in the ass to get in, but when I flip it over to check the inside, it falls right out... I put it back in and cooled down the pully, its in there snug now. (Sorry I dont know how to resize images.) http://https://imageshack.com/i/pnIsDpZZj |
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Title: Re: Rear Pulley Wobble Fix Post by Armen on 09/10/23 at 15:38:06 Prob was slightly cocked going in. Just slightly off and they get hung up. Glad it worked out. |
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