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Message started by madmikesmech on 05/24/19 at 11:14:08

Title: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poor ru
Post by madmikesmech on 05/24/19 at 11:14:08

Hey everyone,
Put 200+ miles on last weekend, bike ran great! Ran great when I parked it. Went to ride it to work yesterday, it started harder than usual. Full choke, as always for cold start, but I had to roll the throttle for it even to fire. It did eventually start, but acted as it was "loaded up" with gas[ch129335][ch8205][ch9794][ch65039], any ways... I had done nothing to it since last weekend, when it was running excellent. TRIED to ride it to work, got thru 1st gear, ok, got into second gear, rolled it on to about 1/2 throttle and the power fell on its face, kept it running by returning throttle to idle. It's just out of nowhere running like Sh#*!
I pulled the plug this morning and it was black, pulled the air filter element, it had gas in it and a bit was in the bottom of airbox.
Sounds like my needle and seat ain't shutting gas flow off. BUT would it happen so suddenly?!
Oh yes I DO HAVE AN ORIGINAL YAMAHA RAPTOR petcock on.
I did gas up before putting it away last weekend, same station, ethanol FREE gasoline. I hate to, but I guess carb removal/ inspection is in order[ch9785]
One other thing, I may add... my bike sits in one of those "garage in a box" metal frame, tarp covered structures. I did notice a LOT of condensation on the external cases of the engine, like could the inside of the gas tank or carb have gotten an excessive amount of condensation in them, and would that cause something like this?
Put a new NGK in removed air filter element, and it started poorly and ran poorly.
Oil level is not over full like if gas is filling crankcase, but I will change it just because!
Any input would be great
Thank you,
Michael

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by norm92de on 05/24/19 at 11:25:57

Mike,
Did you shut off the fuel when you parked it?

It sounds like the carb float has stuck and is making it run rich.

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by batman on 05/24/19 at 11:33:38

Stuck float ? Did you try a light tapping on the bowl? Not many use premium gas , it sits a long time ,you may have picked up water/ crud from that ,and if your motor's stock you're just wasting money anyway. If your dropping the bowl to check the float ,you should make sure the main jet isn't plugged . Condensation shouldn't be a problem ,it would only be if your sparkplug wire is old or cracked. The fact that the bike started and idled OK ,makes that chance unlikely .

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/24/19 at 11:59:39

Batman, no I did not tap lightly on the carb yet. The ethanol free gas I run is from the same pump, same station i have always gotten it from, and never had issues before[ch129335][ch8205][ch9794][ch65039] I already had the tank off, and battery half the way out when I posted! So I guess I will just pull the carb. It seems like it would be a real PITA to try to remove just the float bowl while carb is still on bike. I think I want to check that screen in the fuel supply passage anyhow.
I rebuilt the carb last fall and it has run great, but feel I could use 1 more washer under the slide needle, last year the plug showed it was a bit on the lean side.
Thank you all for the input so far.
Michael

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by norm92de on 05/24/19 at 18:54:19

Removing the float bowl is very easy especially if you have replaced the screws with allen head screws. Even the float valve is not that hard to remove.

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by ohiomoto on 05/24/19 at 19:37:16

Listen to Batman...

First, make sure you don't have gas in the oil. Then start it up with the petcock in the off position, tap the carb a few times and hope that clears up whatever made the needle stuck. If that fails clean the float bowl and needle.

DON'T buy a rebuild kit and replace all of the jets with the incorrect ones in the kit. ::) ::)

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by batman on 05/24/19 at 19:44:56

Same station ,same pump , means little . How long has the gas sat there ? Does the tank now leak ground water?( try a station at the top of a hill ,where gas runs out of a tank rather than ground water in) When was it filled last ( stirring up all the water and crud ) a half hour before you filled up ? In any event I'd drain the tank and try some fresh fuel .

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/19 at 19:56:01

The bike didn't change.
It's easy to dump gas.
Drain the bowl.
Put fresh gas in.
It's the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to eliminate a potential problem.
It ran good
Before you gassed up.
How far did you ride to get home?

Drain the bowl into a glass container.

See what it looks like.

Run some gas out of the tank into glass.
See what it looks like.

Prove the gas is good.
Then let's start solving it.

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 02:48:16

73726F70242F79781D0 wrote:

Removing the float bowl is very easy especially if you have replaced the screws with allen head screws. Even the float valve is not that hard to remove.

Norm92D, yes the bowl screws HAVE been replaced with Allen head screws! My bike is a '99, stock battery box and air cleaner housing... looks pretty "tight" to me for me to drop the float bowl, and get into it on the bike... not sayin it can't be done, just easier for me to yank the whole carb off.
Thank you for your input!
Michael

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 02:53:23

6F6C79606C6339350D0 wrote:

Good call Batman! Your ABSOLUTELY correct. So it's silly to run ethanol free when I am actively riding like in the summer? Still good idea to fill up using ethanol free before putting it to bed for winter tho, correct?

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 02:58:43

56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:

Justin o guy2,
Yes, great evaluation of the circumstances!
I just freaked out! Bummed, wanted to ride!
Obviously start at the beginning GAS, then work toward a cause of the problem.
Michael

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 03:00:06

Guys, I want to THANK YOU ALL!
This forum ROCKS [ch129304]

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 03:07:10

Filter looked good.
Gas appears fine, drained float bowl into glass container... no contaminants.
Took sample from tank from the disconnected fuel line... same no contamination.
Battery and battery box removed, carb off now.
When I open it up I'll find something[ch129335][ch8205][ch9794][ch65039] I'm sure!
Do you all run inline fuel filters? I have an inline clear plastic one on mine.

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/19 at 04:52:03

They are a common source of trouble.
And not needed.
Have you recently put one on?

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by batman on 05/25/19 at 12:42:41

Jog's right ditch the inline filter ,they either trap water ,restrict flow or can become air bound ,more trouble than their worth . Yes ,pure gas in the tank for night- night time . Good luck!

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/25/19 at 13:48:45

Really, i installed one last fall after working the carb with a Lancer JetSet. 3/8" in line. I'm rather EMBARRASSED to tell you all this...last fall during reassembly of my carb, it seems I got in to much of a rush to ride end of season here in western N.Y. and NEGLECTED to instal the slide return spring!! Strangely enough it ran GREAT as long as it did! After carb removal, disassembly, and verification all passages and jets are clear, (and the slide spring is in place!) I'm ready to reinstall carb!!
Just to put it out there, I have a basically stock engine cept for a Jardine slip on, 155 main 67.5 air pilot, and 55 pilot jet, 2 washers in place of the nylon spacer.
I once again thank you ALL for all your input and chat!
Michael

Title: Re: Last weekend runninv great, now hard start poo
Post by madmikesmech on 05/26/19 at 07:24:28

Carb on yesterday late afternoon, just as I fired it up and got it out of the shed, it started DUMPING rain!!
So needless to say I was a little bit anxious to wake up and ride today. This morning it fired right up, wired, NO CHOKE, but it stayed in the low 60's overnight. Took it out "around the block" about 34 miles, rural roads, in town, open roads for WOT. great pull up to 83mph, still gaining, but road was getting short, not conditions for this speed.
So all in all it must've been sheer happenstance that it all came to a head at once like this here at home, and not on the road while on a roadtrip!!
My evaluation... or hypothesis is.
I never used to turn the Raptor petcock off when bike sat, something kept the needle from seating, allowing the float bowl to overfill, introducing raw gas into my air cleaner box, thus contaminating crankcase oil enough to always give a "rich" fuel mixture.
I'm glad it all went dow like it did tho!
Long story short... madmike is back in the wind![ch128077]
Oh yeah, NO online filter[ch128540]
Michael