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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cafe Build /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1557885431 Message started by ZSteele on 05/14/19 at 18:57:10 |
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Title: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/14/19 at 18:57:10 Finally got some sunshine and time to dig into my project today. If time allows I'll get the fiberglass pan done tomorrow and then I can work on upholstery while I wait for the rest of the parts to come in. List of changes: Clubman bars motone 3button switches M.unit Motoscope mini Speedo/tacho w/combi holder New signals all around New head and tail lights Subframe and hoop weld 340mm rear shocks (lower brackets relocated) 8cell lithium battery 17/52 chain conversion Supertrapp muffler Ryca pod filter K&N breather filter Lsk fuel gauge sending unit Photos here: https://m.imgur.com/a/1FBcv9o |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 05/15/19 at 00:20:57 Nice! Looks like you are having a bunch of fun. Thanks for the pictures, coming along very nicely. Brown, white and silver color scheme looks pretty good too. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/15/19 at 07:23:38 The build is looking good, but your welding scares me. Everything I see is not acceptable for road use. You want good penetration and should see some discoloring/bluing roughly 1/4" to each side of your weld. Keep practicing on something other than your bike and then reweld or take it to a professional to go over it. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/15/19 at 07:57:32 Ohiomoto- all the welds are essentially tacks at this point. I'll be going over everything again! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/15/19 at 09:08:54 Cool. This guy is a really good teacher and has great videos: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/Mig-welding-tips.html You want that sound. If you are struggling, get it mocked up and let a professional tidy everything up for you when you get done. If you get good weld penetration, but the look isn't what you want, don't be ashamed of the flap wheel. You just want to make sure it's safe. :) Are you using wire feed? MIG with gas? Looks like 120v? I borrowed a 120v MIG on my build and it was a little tough to dial in. I was able to get strong welds, but I wished for a little more heat, but it just wouldn't weld well at the highest settings. I had to weld a little slower to get the penetration and ended up with a tad more filler than I would have liked. Slowing the wire feed down just burned off the tip of the wire. Just part of the territory when using a cheap welder, but you should be able to get decent results. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/15/19 at 09:41:28 Thanks for the link, I'll check it out! I'm using a flux core so I'm not sure I'll get the pretty blueing ln the welds, or pretty welds. I put a good amount of force on the hoop after everything had rough welds on and it held up just fine, certainly not road stress though. The plan is to just keep grinding and filling until there are no pinholes. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/15/19 at 10:01:28 Filling in the pin holes is like adding glue. Not really what you want. Maybe okay for the subframe, merely okay, at best. But you want to make sure you get a good weld on those shock mounts. You welds look like they might be too cold and you're just "dripping" material in there. Or you wire feed could be too fast and it's killing the burn. I can't tell without hearing or seeing what's going on, but your settings are off. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI7GOVrB33c Listen to the sound and look at how much filler gets laid into the joint. More importantly, you should see the weld melted into the metal at the edges. Get some scrap similar to your hoop and test with a higher temperature. See if you can get that sizzle while getting penetration and building up the joint with some filler. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/15/19 at 10:15:15 And watch this one. He takes really good videos so you can see/learn how to work the puddle. Working the puddle is the key. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XD2gpCKK-E PS, Sorry if I'm crapping on your build thread. We can ask Dave to clean it up for you, but please check out those videos. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Ruttly on 05/15/19 at 10:23:34 All that work on shock mounts and chain conversion and your left shock is way out in left field. A little more work and you can move the left shock in about 3/4”. You will thank me when you are done it looks so much better. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/15/19 at 10:38:03 Ohiomoto- I hope they stay, this is great stuff! All part of the process! Ruttly- the mount goes directly to the swingarm and is pushed out by the upper mount. I'm guessing the fix is flip the lower bolt around and shave the upper mount to match? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Ruttly on 05/15/19 at 12:42:45 I made new lower mount and carefully removed the support for upper cut and rewelded it then welded support back in place. Fabled a special jig to keep upper straight while welding. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/15/19 at 13:52:12 No Ruttly!! No!!! Bad Ruttly! I was about to offer up shorter shocks and a swingarm just to keep his welding to a minimum. Then you come along giving him more welding projects!! ;D |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/15/19 at 14:38:06 Ah I see, clevis in place of the oem mount and then shorten the top to match. At this point I'll stick to fixing my welds and calling it good. If the 340 shocks end up not working out maybe I'll revisit them and the mounts when I get around to putting together some rearset. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Ruttly on 05/15/19 at 14:55:29 Sorry Ohiomoto , I just cringe when I see a chain conversion and a shock way out in left field. With the belt it’s ok. It looks so good and I was surprised how strong it turned out to be , hit a jump bout 3’ high bout 30 mph and it didn’t break. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by norm92de on 05/15/19 at 17:13:19 Beautiful work! :) Keep us up to date. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/18/19 at 10:45:11 http://imgur.com/a/9z79Ap6 Progress on the seat pan and fuel gauge mount. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/18/19 at 16:55:51 http://imgur.com/a/Vxh2kfr How do these look Ohiomoto? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 05/18/19 at 18:31:33 I think I would have waited on the seat pan until the mid controls were built , so that the tail of the pan ,could be sized and your body positioned for the most comfort , as a café bike has the least to begin with. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/18/19 at 19:19:39 Im going to rock the forwards for now, at 6'2 theyre essentially mids for me [ch128528] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 05/18/19 at 21:30:51 That could be a problem if you've lowered the forks, lots of footpeg grinding. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/19/19 at 04:02:22 Oooh good point. Haven't lowered the front end,I'll report back on this after first ride |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/19/19 at 04:22:11 Great fiberglass work. The bike is looking good. When I built my bike, I did the tank, seat and rear fender and then set my pegs where they needed to be. I also rode my bike with lower forks and stock pegs for a summer with very little peg grinding. That said, you can't leave forwards on a cafe... that's just wrong! Welds are getting better. First one is still a little cold, but it's a harder weld to do as it needs a lot of fill. The rest look better. Keep practicing. :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Ruttly on 05/19/19 at 04:50:45 If I have to weld something thicker than normal I'll preheat the metal pieces then my 110 volt welder doesn't struggle |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/19/19 at 09:09:47 Eventually I might actually go with rearsets but Id like to get the bike functioning first [ch128521] still waiting on electronics but theres plenty to finish up until then I need to go over the hump again with bondo, theres some funky flat spots. Also gotta get the tray, side panels, and under hoop bat storage cut and welded. Once thats all good I can finish the seat mounting and get on with upholstery. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/23/19 at 14:34:46 Got the majority of the electronics in but still missing 2 key things before I start wiring. In the mean time I have plenty of welding and upholstery to do. The new headlamp uses fork tube clamps for mounts, would it be easier to take the whole top triple clamp off to slip them on or loosen the bottom triple and slide the assembly down away from the top triple? Planning on replacing fork oil soon but Id rather not disassemble that section entirely until the bike is more put together. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/23/19 at 14:38:50 Sike, one youtube vid later it looks like loosening the bottom triple and removing the 2 top nuts is the way to go. Ill post again when I have some work done. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 05/23/19 at 21:36:40 You already have the headlight mounts? There are several out there that are two or three peice you can put on without taking the clamps off. Also some are sheet metal that you can bend open and then push on without the hassle. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/19 at 05:01:01 Already got them, no biggie though. Like I said, I do want to refresh the fork oil so this'll be a good start to feeling comfortable mucking with the triple tree. Ive noticed that most of the time I start disassembling/fixing/modifying a section of the bike it's uncomfortable the first time, but once I've gotten through it once it's no biggie the second time round. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Dave on 05/24/19 at 05:41:17 71785F4E4E474E2B0 wrote:
Taking off the top triple clamp is pretty easy - but you have to put a support under the frame to support the bike.......as you have to remove the fork caps and that will remove the spring support for the front end. 1) Put supports under the bike. 2) Remove the fork caps....be aware there is some pressure on the springs and the cap will want to fly off. 3) Remove the center nut on the steering stem. 4) Put a towel on the tank, pull the top yoke off and rest it on the towel (or get a friend to hold it). 5) Install your headlight brackets. 6+) Put everything back together. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/19 at 06:32:59 That doesnt sound too bad either, the bike is already on a jack, I'm guessing in that case just remove fork caps and center nut? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Dave on 05/24/19 at 07:01:15 737A5D4C4C454C290 wrote:
Yep....just be ready for the strong "push" from the fork caps as you remove them - the forks springs have some "pre-load" built in. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 05/24/19 at 10:41:26 Some preload is an understatement! Haha. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/19 at 16:36:18 Update album incoming this evening. For you veteran cafe riders what is the necessity of a rear fender if the hoop is past the wheel midline? I have the electronics tray and underhump area walled in so spray wouldn't harm anything electric and I'm unsure if the spray would get all the way up to me. Thoughts/experiences? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/19 at 17:06:42 Pics --> http://imgur.com/a/4QSaRzR |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 05/24/19 at 18:12:19 4C456273737A73160 wrote:
The box will probably be fine. But on wet days you will get some spray on your back. Especially at lower speeds like under 20mph. You can install a fender or put your license plate there to deflect some of the spray. Or just dont ride when its wet. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/19 at 18:50:25 I try not to ride in the rain but if I go on a worktrip this summer I might have no choice. Still unsure exactly how I'll mount the license plate. Id like to have it tucked up under against the frame but depending on the interpretation of "visible" I might need to mount it on the back of the hoop, thus eliminating spray. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Dave on 05/25/19 at 03:00:50 My bike has the RYCA seat pan, and a smallish front fender. If you ride in the rain, you will get water thrown all over you. The rear tire throws water on my back, on my neck and helmet - you throw a rooster tail of water up your backside. The front wheel splits the water on the road and directs a spray of water onto each boot on the pegs, and a 2" wide line of water forward off the top of the front tire that hits you in the visor and also leaves a nice line of water down the front of your jacket. Riding a Cafe' bike in the rain is a miserable experience.....and unfortunately we always seem to find at least one rain storm when we go riding in the mountains for a few days - the afternoon showers are a common event in the summer. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/04/19 at 08:36:52 Been a bit since the last update. Still waiting on the rest of the electronics but hopefully Ill have them by this weekend. Pics: http://imgur.com/a/K6NP8d3 |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/06/19 at 16:06:08 Finally stopped being lazy and put the new headlamp, signals and brackets on. Seems to give the bike a stretched feeling, but maybe that's just me. http://imgur.com/a/ZxfGXds. <----pics |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 06/06/19 at 19:34:39 Nice progress. Its coming along pretty good. Im anxious to see the final product. Ive never seen a paint job like that. I was like, "ew what is that", then "oh wait thats cool", lastly "Im confused but I cant wait to see it all together". :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Noble_Savage on 06/07/19 at 11:05:31 Impressive work! I'm considering running clubmans. How do you like your setup? Any clearance issues with the stock tank? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/07/19 at 16:31:40 Theres a delicate place where the tank has to be positioned squarely and the bars have to be at a certain angle/rotation. But if you get it right theres no clearance issue, with the stock foot controls my knees are a bigger problem than the tank! Truthfully I'd go with clipons if I were to do it again, and I might swap to them when I get rearsets on either way. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/07/19 at 16:35:00 TIL stapling really doesnt work on fiberglass, waiting on the glue to dry. Also stitching by hand is quite tedious. But its starting to look like a bike! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Noble_Savage on 06/10/19 at 07:46:43 59507766666F66030 wrote:
Thanks! my next question would have been about running the forward controls with lower bars. I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam and I feel a bit compressed with the stock setup. I just flipped my risers around and it's a bit better. I can't imagine being 6' 2" and riding with clipons and forward controls. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/10/19 at 08:04:30 Where they are now is still fairly upright seating for me. If i go to rear controls ill have to run super low clip ons for ergonomic purposes. The stock forwards feel like pretty much perfect mids for me, ie my knees form basically a 90° parallel with the ground. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/10/19 at 17:44:32 Update: still waiting on two parts before I can fully wire but I got started running the handlebar wires. Also the seats basically done. Pic of the butt rest not included, didn't come out as well as I'd like and I'm still toying with the idea of just resewing a cover for it. Pics ---> https://imgur.com/a/0Ao6kBN |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 06/17/19 at 20:54:51 Got my m.unit today and started wiring. Ive cut out everything to do with the side stand and run wires for the ignition/decomp system. Everything fires nicely. Pic included is a rough idea of what I have going, the key switch will have to change so that it gives power to the m.unit ignition but I'm okay with that. The goal was to use the m.unit and revivalcycles starter solenoid while keeping the key switch, a simple flip switch under the seat, and the clutch switch as safety/must be engaged to start the bike. Tomorrow I'll clean up this system and finalize wire/cdi/controller positions and start running lights and controls. Hopefully I'll get to do my shakedown before I leave for a 3 week work trip on Thursday. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Violent_Rage on 06/26/19 at 05:13:37 Great job! Since the Motone switches are momentary, how did you do with the hi\lo beam and the stop\run button? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/04/19 at 16:13:26 Hi/lo is one button and start is one button. Im using an m.unit so the logic is taken care of. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/10/19 at 15:45:09 Ok! Finally back from a work trip and its time to trouble shoot the bike. Currently I can get it to turn the starter over and somehow got it to fire a few times but it won't run. I have no idea what I'm missing or why it will fire every once in awhile but won't stay running. My first thought was the spark plug boot didnt make it all the way back on but if that was the case it would never fire. Wiring is a bit different than OEM but unless something is supposed to be getting power all the time in the ignition/decomp circuit I'm out of ideas there. One note is the neutral light is not coming on. No clue what thats about either. Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 07/10/19 at 20:12:24 My thought is ,why you do think we would know anything about your wiring or an M-unit ? I would say that there needs to be two sources of power to the ignition ,one from the battery for starting, and another from the regulator /rectifier when running . My other thought is I hope you never have a problem on the road with this system, how would you attempt to fix it? sorry but I think you turned a mole hill into a mountain with this project. But I wish you luck. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/11/19 at 18:54:29 Ignoring most of that, what I'm getting is in the OEM wiring there's 12v going from the sidestand relay, through the engine stop switch and constantly powering the ignitor when the bike is on? This would be a pretty easy fix, just send 12v from the m.units aux to the ignitor. I'll give this a shot in the morning when the rain is gone. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 07/12/19 at 06:30:21 Well the m unit site said that it comes with complete instructions , did they lie? The point I was trying to make is I don't have them to read so how could I advise you . the single line diagram you provided ,is not labeled enough to even read , or begin to understand . sorry if you thought I was being rude , but I don't see the m unit as much of an up grade , If one of the circuits trip it won't reset until the fault is FOUND AND REPAIRED ,how does this help you ? You have 10 breakers that can't even be manually reset. If your bike dies in the middle of nowhere ,that's where you'll be. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/12/19 at 07:02:58 The instructions don't help much when it comes to wiring a "cdi" or ignitor. If you're running a bobber wiring loom then its a bit simpler. Why would the circuit ever trip? Once everythings tidied up there will be no shorts and any trips would come from alot of abuse. At that point finding the culprit is a matter of running down the loom and finding whats frayed or otherwise jacked up. I appreciate your concern with the project but I certainly dont appreciate the snideness. After reading through some other projects you seem to have the idea that if its not what you think is "right" you have the space here to talk down on people and some really cool projects have up and vanished. If someone else wants to bring an m.unit into their project I hope they can use this as a baseline, I'm certainly not the first to use it on a savage. Likewise I wish there was still a certain someone around to talk to about a working supercharger on a savage. Pointless and over the top or not, not everyone wants the same bike they started with and thats what makes this platform so beautiful. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/12/19 at 15:07:03 Ok so supplying constant 12v to the ignitor via the O/W wire is not the solution, at least not in this configuration. I may have to rewire to keep the decomp and the ignitor circuits separate even though they are tied through the starter switch on the OEM diagram. Constructive thoughts are more than welcome. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 07/12/19 at 15:41:24 737A5D4C4C454C290 wrote:
Maybe this thread will help you... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1516980416 The ignitor is not powered thru the decomp timer. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/14/19 at 10:17:29 Ok, went through that thread (thanks Versy!), the OEM plans, this particularly informative thread (suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1262917566/3#3) and cross referenced them to my plans. The ignitor DOES need constant 12v via the O/W from the OEM killswitch. I have removed OEM controls and I do want multiple failsafes to start the bike. Attached pic is the new plan. Killswitch and key are not included but the killswitch will be to cut power to the ignitor and the key will be to cut power to the m.unit. The only other weird thing (besides the m.unit) is the starter solenoid. Im using the revival cycles all in one that has a fuse built in. Also the green with x's was a mistake, disregard that. Colors should be the same or close to the OEM diagrams for easier viewing. I'll post again once I've rewired. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/15/19 at 13:56:49 All aboard the hype train, this build has an end in sight. New diagram works perfect and retains the key, clutch and a hidden "kill switch" as safety nets to starting it. Thanks to Batman for pointing out the ignitor needs power all the time. In my first wiring supplying it with power off the circuit ended up powering the starter and God knows what else so rewiring was a must. More to follow as I work through rewiring the front end, I went ahead and switched to the much nicer ryca coupons. For anyone worrying about fuses and such: the starter solenoid has a fuse built in and the m.unit has individual fuses to every part connected. In the event that one trips the m.unit tells you which fuse has gone and its a simple matter of running down the harness and finding the fault. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 07/16/19 at 00:20:21 Sometimes you find help in the rudest places :) , but when I said good luck, that wasn't sarcasm. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/16/19 at 13:53:40 Protip: if you are deciding between clipons or clubmans, clubmans are a pain to wire through the bars, use clipons. Going to have to run new clutch/brake/throttle cables. The throttle looks like trimming and resoldering would be the easiest route. The brake line needs a 90° banjo, does anyone know the bolt size? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/24/19 at 15:10:41 Update: clutch is dragging as per the other thread I started, hopefully Versy is correct and it just needs to run and oil itself. It's raining so if not tonight then tomorrow morning I'll give her a try! Things left to do: -Repaint and seal -Drain and refill brake fluid when the new brake line shows up -Swap out old brake shoes and pads for new ones -Possibly fit a new throttle cable, old one is close but I have a new one I can swap to -Weld bracket under electronics tray for the ignitor, it fits under the seat but theres not a lot of room -Weld a quick L.p. bracket -Get a new rear tire -Clean the everliving crap out of everything... Everything is dirty. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/24/19 at 17:04:48 It f***ing works. Clutch is fine, just needed to be run. Headed out to troll around the neighborhood with a LP in my jacket. Thanks for everyone's help and comments, I'll keep this thread up to date as I finish everything up. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by norm92de on 07/24/19 at 17:47:54 These bikes aren't much but we love them. :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 07/25/19 at 10:41:11 L.p. bracket done and all my shcok bracket welds have been gone over. Went ahead and slapped some bew brake shoes in while I had the tire off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDdo8v1pM0&feature=player_embedded# This tip is gold. Ive never replaced the shoes and it took less than 5 minutes. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 08/29/19 at 15:26:01 So after replacing my oil I realized I never plugged the old Speedo cable hole. Somewhere someone found a brass knuckle with the correct pitch to seal the hole up, does anyone know where that was discussed? I cant seem to find it. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/19 at 16:04:19 Not having any luck either, all searches return a time out. In my collection of leftovers I found that a brass gas fitting will fit. So it is a straight thread of inch standard. Most hardware stores have the sizing board with all the samples glued to it. So take your cable and find the right size. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 08/29/19 at 17:22:07 I just use the stock cable end , file/grind down a penny ( 97% copper -before 1985) anile with a torch ,fit in side . tighten it down .reheat and reuse ,can be found coast to coast, relatively cheap :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 08/29/19 at 20:31:05 I think I had used a stainless steel 1/2" or 3/4" cap. Standard NPT threads. I intended to grind it down to something pretty, but after putting it on there never really noticed it again. Can be found at any Ace, True Value, or Osh, etc |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 08/30/19 at 03:19:17 Thanks for the help guys, I'll head over to ace this afternoon. I should probably wipe the cable down before I get oil all over their fittings [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by SpamyToo on 08/30/19 at 05:47:49 Im pretty sure it actually is a non-tapered thread like Verslagen said, but the NPT one worked just fine with the original speedo gasket and some teflon tape. It didnt gall the threads or bind and hasnt leaked or come loose in 5 years or so. It just happen to be a fitting I had in my beer making junk, and the stainless wouldnt need paint to be fine. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 08/31/19 at 13:34:15 Found a proper fitting after a half hour scrubbing the specialty fasteners aisle. Over in your local PLUMBING section you'll find some fittings that will work. There are a ton and because they use OD measurements and not thread measurements you have to double check you get the right part. Heres what I got, pic on bike incoming. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 08/31/19 at 13:35:13 Fits like a glove and doesn't look half bad. Someone remind to put it back on with loctite. [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by DragBikeMike on 08/31/19 at 13:41:32 Cool! Now we know 3/8 pipe thread does the trick. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 09/08/19 at 16:18:04 Pics incoming, lots of little things still to be done but daily riding has been a blast and she definitely gets looks everywhere I go. Even with the scrappy paint job ;). Finally got around to putting some threadlocker around the bike, replacing the back tire, patching the pinholes on the exhaust, bleeding the front brake, replacing the front pads, running the braided steel line, rerouting the clutch cable to run the bars lower and more angled, and installing the fuel gauge brains! Plans for the future include fabbing some rearsets, swapping out the top clamp and one day even cleaning everything. . . One day. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 09/08/19 at 16:18:25 Brake Line |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 09/08/19 at 16:18:55 T joint going to the fuel gauge under the seat |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 09/08/19 at 16:20:35 Dirty paint but a working fuel gauge! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 09/11/19 at 02:37:00 There should be a second nut on the lower end of your clutch cable to jam together to lock the adjustment in place.( no big deal , just spotted it in the pic) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 09/11/19 at 09:21:30 Ahhhh, knew something was missing! The clutch is the venhill kit off amazon so it wasn't very expensive. Eventually I'll get around to running a new clutch/brake master/throttle assembly. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 06:53:39 Oooooooooook Time to clean this build up. Yesterday I got the bike torn down, engine out, and all that remains tear down wise is taking the front end off. I have on order a mikuni VM38 and some thunder goodies to go with it, a new throttle tube to replace my janky one and new cables for throttle and clutch, and the schmancy top triple clamp to lower the front end further. I'm currently looking for a DR650 cam or similar. I would love to grab one of Lancers but I'd rather spend the money on powder coating my gross frame and getting the cylinder bored out for that juicy 97mm wiseco on my desk ;D. It looks like I will be porting the head while I have things apart for now so I'll update things as I go. If anyone has a lead on a dr650 cam or an open header gemme a shout. Also has anyone tried running a titanium header? Pics incoming |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 06:54:48 Pic above is the mess of an electronics tray, pic below shows I'm not really a savage, I wrapped my runs :D |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 06:56:19 I noticed this grossness when I took the chain and sprockets off, anyone have a clue on what exactly it could be? I'm guessing just chain goo and a bit of rust... |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by zevenenergie on 10/12/19 at 09:40:56 It's fault. And it's your own. It consists mainly of regret repentance, remorse, penitence, compunction and attrition. That's what you get when you replace a maintenance-free drive belt with a chain. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 11:13:03 :'( |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Dave on 10/12/19 at 13:12:19 Chains are messy - they always have been. The front sprocket is small and throws more stuff off the chain than the larger rear sprocket, and it is common that the engine gets a lot of gooey build up in this area. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 13:37:58 Good to know Dave, I should do a better job doing routine chain maintenance [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Gary in NJ on 10/12/19 at 18:52:24 Go to an O or X ring chain and the only maintenance is making sure it’s clean. I stopped oiling chains years ago. In the odd event that the chain looks grimy I remove it and place it in diesel overnight and simply wipe it down. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/12/19 at 19:03:40 I'll look into it Gary, thanks for the tip! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 10/14/19 at 09:57:36 I'm not sure how much fun it will be to ride if you lower the forks anymore and don't install rearsets. You will be in for a lot of grinding footpegs. If you plan on installing rearsets, then you may want to do that before powder coat. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/14/19 at 11:24:50 I'm actually inquiring with a friend about using his cnc router for the rearsets. Its on the docket, just focusing on the engine mods at this point. I've poked around the forums a bit but if you have any ideas I might notve seen I'm all ears! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 10/14/19 at 11:40:34 Save yourself the headaches and get a Ryca bracket! Or look here for ideas: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1487785879 The basic bracket for mid-controls or rearsets is the same. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/17/19 at 20:44:50 Got my dcmotive top clamp finally, has anyone put a little tube/bushing between the top of the fork tube and the bottom of the cap to fill in that gap? Im thinking a little accent color could go a long way there. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Armen on 10/18/19 at 05:41:26 I used a set of aluminum fork caps with preload adjusters built in. Think they were for a 400 Yamaha of some sort. No gap. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/18/19 at 06:27:51 7B48575F543A0 wrote:
Same here. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 10/18/19 at 10:58:40 Be aware that your fork lowers will hit the bottom triple clamp if you raise the forks too high in the clamps. Best to remove the fork springs to make sure you still have clearance. I think 25mm should be safe but 35mm might be too much. You should test for yourself to be sure. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/26/19 at 02:36:02 Rearset bracket update: took some inspiration from NMSavage. Here's the cardboard mock up |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/26/19 at 02:42:38 Approximate peg location, not worried about the chain. Thered have to be some extreme duress to touch either part of the bracket and at that point it will be the least of my worries. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/26/19 at 03:51:34 Metal fabbed up. The actual peg mount plates will use bolts running the length. More pics tomorrow when, fingers crossed, the pegs are fully mounted. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Mavigogun on 10/29/19 at 21:01:48 Jonesing for an update. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/29/19 at 21:31:24 I have the shift linkage installed at this point, not sold on having the linkage under the shifter peg itself though, its pretty tight. might spring for heim joints and run a bent bar instead of straight threaded rod but I need to do more homework on it. Haven't even touched the right linkage, from a couple of hand tests it seems the rear drum actuates when the bar is pushed forward or backward so I'm thinking of just running a threaded rod all the way back and setting it up to push the actuator backwards. Still waiting for quotes on my header pipe to come in, if they're more than 500 I'll just invest the money into an entry level tig welder and do some learning. According to thebois(TM) the slide in the new vm carb is correct so as soon as I have a header and my jetsets in I'll be learning the ins and outs of tuning. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 10/30/19 at 12:39:51 Gap under the fork cap -11/2 " pvc pipe? painted any color you choose. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 13:23:59 Batman- thats a possibility, I've been scouting ebay for an adjuster like the other guys mentioned but im hesitant to get something that wont fit [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 10/30/19 at 16:25:00 Upper fork tubes are 38mm / 1.49" , ID 0f 1 1/2 pvc should be 1.50 " I think it could work, a light sanding should make them hold paint. If the OD of the pipe is wider than the flange on the caps it could be fairly east to taper or round off.( just a thought- It's your bike) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 16:28:25 Pick a size, any size. Just not outside 200-290 or 15-37.5... Digging around lancers post I found some starting numbers and considering the smallest main I have is a 200 we'll go with that and a 20 on the pilot. The air filter I got was clearly designed for a car so that'll be a nogo and I'll have to double check that I get the correct size on the next one. If I do get it fired up before then Ill slap a velocity stack on it and see what happens ::) again, any reading anyone can direct me to is helpful. Already have the mikuni handbook pulled up on one of my bagillion tabs [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 16:33:47 Also side note, the vm 38-9 I got from Amazon comes with a 330 main and a 30 pilot. Just a little big, a little. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 10/30/19 at 16:41:47 If you use a velocity stack I'd fit the longest you can , to make the Quad Flow torque wing work it's best. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 16:45:16 I just got the one from dimecitycycles batman |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Gary in NJ on 10/30/19 at 16:48:50 Here you go, these are the same I used...only $26 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Preload-Fork-Cap-For-Yamaha-FZR400-1WG-38mm-Adjustable-Bolt-x2-67/254362371544?hash=item3b392dc5d8:g:SM8AAOSwXKddoIQ2 |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 16:55:47 Too easy, thanks Gary! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Mavigogun on 10/30/19 at 19:16:20 575E79686861680D0 wrote:
If you're already fluent with a MIG, that might be realistic- if not, buying a TIG to advance a project is like buying a unicycle to go on a trip. (Plenty of people trek on unicycles- after falling down. A lot.) The TIG requires much hard won finesse. Unless you score a nice TIG for a bargain price, a low-end rig only makes the task that much more formidable. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/30/19 at 19:21:43 Ive done some work with the fcaw, but I feel like having a decent welder would open up a lot of project doors for me. Its definitely something I'll have eventually either way, might as well start now right? Edit: also I'm looking at ac/DC welders specifically. Gotta get on that aluminum game with Armen ;) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 10/31/19 at 07:26:28 You could also rod braise or brass weld. It's a very similar skill to tig welding but with a gas torch. You could easily do a better job than that flux core wire feed does and the skills would transfer to tig. And get points for being "old school" which is perfect for a cafe bike. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 10/31/19 at 08:51:06 I was doing some light research into brazing and it seemed like the braze wouldn't be able to hold up to the exhaust temps, mainly right at the head? It would be way cheaper to go that route, how could I make that work? Keep in mind I'm intending on pie cutting this for sexy points, I guess I could wrap it if it looks like butt though. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Mavigogun on 10/31/19 at 20:59:36 What's your price range? A low duty-cycle MIG might fill the bill, considering how thin the exhaust. Of course, it would be great to have a powerful rig for frame work. Reckon on another $100 in supporting tools, at least, plus consumables. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/01/19 at 07:20:10 The lowest I've seen a decent acdc machine go for is 6-700 new, a little less on eBay though. If I could get a machine that will last me a lifetime of little jobs, heaviest probably being frame work, I would spend about 1k on the machine and odds and ends. Not sure I'll need a giant gas tank. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/01/19 at 19:39:51 Im tired of not riding.... Tacky tacky... |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/02/19 at 18:36:36 All welded up, the fcaw welding is really quite hard to make pretty. I got a couple nice looking drags here and there but mixed in with the poop and splatter I ended up just grinding them all down. I'm going to pick up some titanium wrap and just wrap the shame, when I get a big boy welder I'll give it another go. Also I intend to get a dr650 or stage 3 cam at some point so that would be a good time to give welding a header another go. Am I going to run into problems having the muffler bracket attached to the two bolts holding down the starter? Looked like cast something or other so hopefully heat isn't too big a problem requiring moving the bracket elsewhere. Also are there any jetting quirks I should be aware of with a header this short? I'm dying to start er up but I want to get a couple more aesthetic details done first. This week I'll go for a ride for sure. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Mavigogun on 11/04/19 at 07:47:36 The widest part of the exhaust is directly over the right brake control, and you're employing clip-on bars with a stock tank; I wonder about clearance for either. The tank is more-or-less the original shape, without accommodation for hand controls- may they still be employed at the normal extent? How close is your ankle/calf to that pipe? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/04/19 at 09:04:43 Normal sitting position I have maybe 3/4in between my calf and the pipe. Planning on fabbing up a little shield that will sit away from the pipe and hopefully there won't be so much heat transfer through convection that I can't rest my leg on it. More to follow there as I, finger crossed, get it running today or tomorrow. The clipons are set up so the left has about a mm of clearance from the tank, the right will touch currently. The steering lock isn't centered so I'm thinking of just tacking some weld or using a JB product to beef up the left side of the tab so the right bar won't touch. I'm not super worried about using the full extent of the steering. I do plan on doing some slow speed drills to feel more comfortable on the new setup but for the moment it's fine. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 08:51:38 Got essential wires in place to try firing er up and we're not quite making it. I still have 87 gas in the tank. Is the 97mm wiseco really that picky about high octane gas or should I look elsewhere first? Has fresh oil, a shortened header, and a velocity stack on the new 38vm carb. Halp. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 11/06/19 at 09:22:45 Well...new piston (timing chain?? compression??), new wiring (spark?), new carb (fuel??), new exhaust (probably a nonfactor until it runs)....you have a lot going on here. Are you getting it to fire at all or just turning over? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 11:58:56 I'm pretty sure its firing, got it to give me one putputput but other than that its just turning over and giving me the one put. I can check for spark by placing the sparkplug on the engine correct? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 11/06/19 at 12:37:36 Maybe you could try some fogging oil in the cylinder to aid compression, and protect the new piston/rings from damage until you get it running(oil pressure comes up) and the rings have a chance to start seating . I'd also change the fuel to high octane , it delays ignition which is what you want when starting (so does your TDI ignition delay at startup if you have it wired correctly ). It might be smart to return to the CV carb and exhaust until you have the bike up and running, right now you have to many variables. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 13:13:35 Would the fogging oil just get sprayed into the intake port? I can slap the cv on but the pipe is a nogo, midcontrols interfere with the pipe and also I cut it up to try and make it work before I said F it I'll just use the fcaw and wrap my pipe. [ch128556] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 13:16:46 A quick joojle says in through the carb and the sparkplug hole? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/06/19 at 15:21:04 Be sure to wear hearing protection when you start that bike. That just might be the loudest bike on the planet. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 16:44:47 What? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 11/06/19 at 16:47:32 the sparkplug hole is the normal way, not the intake , with the carb in place ,you might end up with a sticking slide . |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 17:11:27 Thanks bat, I'll check connectors tonight and grab fogging oil in the am if no luck. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/06/19 at 19:05:51 Spark is good, gave it a few more turns and it really wants to go, I think fogging oil or just switching to the high octane gas is the key here. More to follow in the a.m. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 11/06/19 at 22:07:36 Continued cranking with the choke on may wash any oil from the cylinder walls and damage them ,the piston and rings. if you're not using fogging oil , a capful of dino oil will work, again in the sparkplug hole ,insert the plug and turn the bike over with the starter a few times, WITHOUT the plug wire in place. then replace the wire and try starting. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 11/07/19 at 08:35:17 56554059555A000C340 wrote:
THIS!! You changed way too much at once for someone who doesn't build motorcycles every day. Those guys you see on TV doing bike and car builds are usually working with the same basic parts on every build so they have it all worked out. You're throwing a big carb, a crazy pipe, a rebuild and rewire in the mess all at once. Good luck with that. Listen to Batman and go back to a the stock header and carb. Then you'll only have to worry about your wiring and rebuild which still leaves a lot to debug. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 11/07/19 at 08:51:09 555C7B6A6A636A0F0 wrote:
And this just makes me ROFLMAO! Honestly, with questions like this, you had no business doing most of what you did with this bike. When I first saw your welding skills, I was shocked!! Do I think you went about this the right way? Nope! Would I ever throw a leg over your bike? No way, it scares me! Did I think you would get this thing back together? No way! Yet here you are with it put back together and it almost runs!! More power to ya brother!! Honestly, I give you credit for sticking with this. Your close, you can do it. :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/07/19 at 09:44:35 Hahahaha, its true, alot of this is first time trials for me but I promise I do alot of reading and research into what I've done! This forum has been a huge asset learning from what all of you guys have done! Also I ask a lot of questions because it benefits me, I did the same thing in the army and now in my new gig. If we can't ask stupid questions we're doomed to make stupid mistakes! Honestly the pipe and the rewire don't worry me too much. I put 1500 miles on the bike after the initial mods including the rewire. The pipe is much shorter but it's also a 1.625 ID so in terms of internal volume it shouldnt be crazy different from stock, just a shorter sprint out the door. I tried to start her again last night and jussssst about made it. I really think the fogging oil and better fuel will be the touch it needs. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 11/07/19 at 10:16:16 Many times the 1st start is a lot easier with starting fluid. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 11/07/19 at 10:18:04 Good to know Versy, I'll add that to my list after work! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 12:40:06 Quick update while I calm down cause I'm LITERALLY shaking. I remember getting the camshaft sprocket back on with the chain being a bit of a pain when I initially put everything back together and figured if the bike is trying to fire things are close, maybe just out of sync? Low and behold when I took the head back off the camshaft was about 30* off of TDC. Great showing of patience past me... Sooooooo I got everything nice and back to TDC all around and buttoned her back up last night. Threw me wires back together and muffler on and gave her a try and we have a motorcycle that runs! Bad news is the slide is too high in the carb and idle is like a jet trying to take off. We need to get back to thumpy land. Im going to muck with the adjustment and try to come up with something but today was a HUGE step in the right direction! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 12:43:50 Counter update. The adjustment screw works and were in thumpy land again. Still shaking. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 12:49:28 I'm not letting it run more than 30 seconds at a time so far. Couldn't resist a good twist and she feels STRONG with that new piston! I am getting some smoke however. Only from the exhaust side of the engine. Could this just be the stupid amounts of starting and fogging oil I blew in there trying to start with a misaligned camshaft? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by DragBikeMike on 12/10/19 at 13:12:07 Whoa! Calm down Steely. Mellow out and get your sea legs back. Sounds like you are havin fun. Congrats on the initial fire in the hole. Good thing that out-of-time cam didn't crunch any valves. How did you determine that the cam was out-of-time? Did you remove the head cover so you could observe the timing marks on the right end of the camshaft? Since you are only running it 30 seconds at a time, I wouldn't be too concerned about the exhaust smoke. If the smoke continues, I would be concerned. How much smoke are we talking about, like the wisp off a lit cigarette.....or......a mosquito fogger Nothin like the thrill on the initial startup of a fresh engine. Are your hands steady yet? :) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 13:33:40 When I tried firing it before it sounded like the engine was trying to catch up and stay on, really hard to put into words. Also I was getting oil from the exhaust so I figured it was open too late or too early, something was off. I ended up removing the head with the engine in frame and really double and triple checking. I just took the sprocket off (left the tensioner and everything down below stay in place) and kind of rolled it in place under the chain. You cant move more than one tooth at a time but it worked. I just ran it for a few minutes to look for changes. I'm seeing puffs of white from the exhaust and I want to say black from the header port. It is a fair amount of smoke, not quite fog machine but enough to concern me. I've read that some smoke is normal after a rebuild and it did drop to the high 40s here in Texas. I'm using up the last few drops of 87 in the tank and I'll be refilling with the good stuff plus a splash of seafoam. Hands are steady but I can still feel the adrenaline [ch128521] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 13:43:50 Correction: it is a like a cigarette wisp but it doesn't stop and fuller. I should call down. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 14:53:37 K update: smoking seems to have stopped. Ran it for a good 5 minutes including some hard pulls into the upper revs complete with sparking backfires and there is some haze when you look at the display but no visible smoke coming from the pipe or the header. With the current jetting I am getting a few drops of gas coming from the intake port. I've got a 200 and a 20 in there now for jets, any suggestions to go for a new start point? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/19 at 15:29:27 Even with the stock carb I see carb spit back when the rpm is too low. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 15:40:48 I'll try raising it a bit, my readout is showing 2400 but I just guessed that was about double its actual, the highest I saw it get to was just over 10k. I'll have to fiddle with some settings and see if I can get a proper read out. I noticed that unlike the stock cv style, the carb will overflow if I leave the petcock on. When running though the drips were from the rubber gasket area. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/10/19 at 16:40:04 New problem, I thought it was my imagination earlier but I just fired her up again and yes we have no smoke but the first 3 inches of the header are definitely getting red hot. What? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 12/11/19 at 06:18:10 Red hot header is most likely from being super-rich and unburnt fuel is making its way to the header where it burns. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 07:00:07 I had read that it could be on the lean side which would make since given the velocity stack but given that I'm leaking gas rich seems right. I'll see if I have some smaller jets. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by srinath on 12/11/19 at 07:11:31 Header turning cherry red is definitely lean condition. Unburnt gas burning that close in the header will soon result in the spark being drowned out. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 08:36:50 It has been skipping sparks here and there! I think with the Jets I have available I have more headroom to go up so I'll try that first. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/11/19 at 08:55:22 Before you go changing too many things at once, if the header is glowing just from idling, then only make changes to the idle circuit because the needle and main have no effect on idle. Further, before you start tearing things apart, try to run the bike for a period of time with the choke (actually, it's an enricher circuit) pulled out. If the glowing goes away, then you should look to fatten up the idle jet. Also, are you 100% sure that you don't have an air leak in the intake boot between the carb and the head? Make sure there is a good seal without any tears or misalignment. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 12/11/19 at 09:23:44 55544F4847524E260 wrote:
Come on now, any old hotrodder will always say it's unburnt fuel. It's conventional hotrodder wisdome!! :) (Not that that proves anything.) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 09:40:47 I will double check the seal, the gas seems to come from where the gasket/boot meets the carb, not where the gasket meets the head. Will try the choke after work first! |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by srinath on 12/11/19 at 09:45:25 59507766666F66030 wrote:
Fuel sneaking out before it gets in the chamber will also result in air sneaking in. Now if your floats are overflowing, you can lose fuel from the intake side and still end up with too much in the chamber - in which case it can still went out the plug and kill the spark. Otherwise, it would lead to a much leaner mix. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 12/11/19 at 10:37:38 I'd put the CV carb back on the bike for at least the break in period for the new piston (1500 miles) this is no time to be trying to tune your new carb. You need to be worried about seating the rings to the cylinder walls and you can't do that running the bike at 30 second of idling and no load and the bike not ever getting to temperature , you'll be more likely to glaze the cylinder walls and never achieve good compression. Drain the 87 octane gas that you've watered down with seafoam , and get some high octane fuel , fuel coming form the mouth of the carb may well be early signs of detonation (pinging) which tends to occur at low speeds , caused by your low octane fuel ,and can't always be heard or detected (fuel spitting out the mouth of the carb may be a sign). You have invested $$$ in the bike , what's a few bucks for gas? Smoke from the tailpipe and higher oil use is something you'll have until the rings do seat.(don't use synthetic oil ). |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 16:44:10 Test 1: vm carb with 87 and choke out Result: Red hot header Test 2: CV carb with 87 choke both in and out Result: wont stay on Test 3: CV carb with 93 choke in Result: rock solid idle, with hard revs the header begins to glow, I could be hearing some ping but I'm unsure of what im listening for in regards to engine knock. Its definitely different from the stock piston sound. Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 16:47:49 Checked my sight glass to make sure I wasnt losing oil and its got plenty, maybe even a little full. Definitely is darker though. I'll pickup some fresh oil tomorrow and do a drain to check oil for metal. Im currently running mobil1 racing 4t 10w-40. Anyone have a better suggestion? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 12/11/19 at 18:19:50 It sounds like the you may need to increase the size of the jets in your carb (maybe) but you NEED to dump the Mobil 1 4t it's a full synthetic ,a BIG NO -NO it won't allow the rings to seat ,you want to use only a Dino based 10w40 for the brake in period. That's not my opinion, ask anyone! Or research it yourself. Your site glass is fuller and darker because your fuel and combustion gases are passing by the rings , because the synthetic oil is not allowing the rings to seat. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 19:04:07 Good to know! I originally got the mobil1 because it had the highest zddp of their offerings. Do you have a personal go to or are they all going to be more or less the same? Heres a sound bite if you dont mind taking a listen, the engine noise is louder in the vid but it does sound pretty close to what Im hearing in person. Edit: http://imgur.com/a/Cm4ErkN soundbite link that i didnt include [ch128529] |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/11/19 at 19:08:00 Also I checked the plug as well. Gap was a little close so I opened it up a hair. Center electrode was dry and sooty, side electrode was a little wet but sooty underneath and the top few threads and insulator were wet with oil. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 12/11/19 at 19:36:51 If the rings aren't seating they're going to pass oil as if they were worn out , even more so it the oil is diluted with fuel , leaving behind a wet plug and carbon build up , make sense? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 12/12/19 at 07:06:54 Batman is right. Listen to him. I also like the CV carb because if the VM is dumping too much fuel in there, it could be washing down the cylinders which, as batman pointed out wouldn't be good for your new piston and rings either. Your header pipe is, well, who knows. It's oversized, short, and single-walled. I guess I would expect it to get hot and blue. Cherry red, not sure, but if your valve timing is still off, or your jetting is too lean or too rich???? Again, changing so many things at once makes it really hard to know exactly what's going on unless you do this crap for a living. As I said, the guys we see on TV are using things known to work. You are pulling stuff out of your ass!!* ;D As for the video, it sounds a bit noisy to me. You might need to check your valve adjustment or possibly timing chain tension is off. * Which is a fun way to say you are doing stuff for the first time with very little experience to work with. DragBikeMike pulls stuff out of his ass too. The difference is he has a pretty good idea what to expect when he does it and I think he pretty much does one experiment at a time. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by LANCER on 12/12/19 at 10:45:45 Its been a while so without going back and reading the entire thread; do you have a Wiseco 97 piston in your engine now ? I saw a reference to it but did not see confirmation. And what about the cam ? Stock or upgraded ? Does your engine continue to idle upon start and does the low throttle range functioning normally ? I would expect the #20 pilot to function decently at least. The #200 main could very well be too large, especially if no Wiseco &/or non stock cam. On a stock engine I start with a #180-185 main. Your short header is costing you power. A stock header would work better for you until you can make a better one. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/12/19 at 11:07:29 97mm wiseco and stock cam. With the cv back on the idle sounds steady and strong and gassing it does just what I expect it to, revs higher and louder but no stumbles. The vm does have a quad wing and a UFO installed |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/17/19 at 14:01:37 Been a busy bee. Header lengthened to about 32in. Oil changed to rotella t4 dino oil. Ran it with the new header and oil for 10 minutes with some hard revs and all glowing has stopped in the first bend of the header. Still hearing that almost clanging sound from the previous soundbite but it starts and runs easily with high octane gas. Is the sound just something to get used to or is it indicative of some other issue? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by DragBikeMike on 12/17/19 at 21:15:48 That's a cool lookin run of header pipe Steely. What sort of muffler do you have in mind? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/18/19 at 06:47:50 I've got a supertrapp disc only end cap on for now just to not run straight pipes in the garage but I'll end up welding on the supertrapp I had on before. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 12/18/19 at 07:02:38 Has anyone else listened to the engine noise you posted? I still think it's a bit noisy. Like timing chain tension or (more likely) valve lash out of adjustment. Did you re-adjust them after you fixed your timing issue? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/18/19 at 07:15:24 I did readjust valve clearance but I'm going to recheck them today. Adjusting them with tbe engine out was a piece of cake but now that its in the frame its a real PITA. Any helpful tricks for getting the feelers down in there? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 12/18/19 at 07:19:42 The clanging sound ? maybe the piston rings still haven't even really begun to seat yet , your running the motor for ten min. ,with no load ,isn't cutting it . You need to go out and ride it. You could just set the idle to about 1500 rpm , and run the bike up and down local streets ,using no more than 3rd gear until the motor's hot , turn it off allow it to cool ,and repeat . I wouldn't be starting the bike to just let it idle , that and high revs , when the OIL isn't fully up to temperature , increases pressure but decreases oil flow and may be doing more harm than good. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/18/19 at 08:26:15 Good deal Batman, thanks! Gameplan for now is: get the wiring all tucked away again, attach the rear brake pedal to the drum, fab up a heat shield for the pipe. The pipe run is perfect for riding position, no problems there. But as soon as you put your feet down the pipe is right there. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 12/18/19 at 08:47:06 5B527564646D64010 wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/p/536736551?iid=254162583098&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=254162583098&targetid=474173581429&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9031193&poi=&campaignid=6469750549&mkgroupid=79220335322&rlsatarget=pla-474173581429&abcId=1141176&merchantid=118864434&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhq_esdK_5gIVVBx9Ch3DIgFhEAkYDSABEgK2FfD_BwE |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/18/19 at 09:36:15 Wouldn't we want a .003/.004 or a .004/.005? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by verslagen1 on 12/18/19 at 11:50:42 575E79686861680D0 wrote:
Yes, 4/5 is the one I have. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/19/19 at 15:48:25 1st ride done. Clutch needs adjusting and I have no rear lights or brakes but for just a quick around the block the bike feels great. Super solid thump. I do hear jingling but I have a suspicion that its the old control mount that's slipping around without a chop or spacers. Ive got tomorrow off so I'll get some work done and put a couple more miles on her and update you guys then. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/23/19 at 17:15:58 Ok, now that I'm not sick or completely locked up from my back spasm I got some work and riding in. After putting maybe 45 minutes around the neighborhood some of the engine noise has gone down. I can distinctly hear the camchain wurring inside now. Thoughts on that? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by batman on 12/23/19 at 21:26:45 If you worked on the tensioner, and reused the clip that holds the body ,you might check that, the body can't move off that stud ,but it can misalign (twist ) the chain causing noise. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 12/24/19 at 06:40:30 Will do! Might end up getting a verlslavy while I'm there. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 01/13/20 at 16:55:20 Well I found the jingling sound. Looks like a verslavy is on the docket! In other news I bought my wife an 03 for her birthday, anyone have a working solenoid for sale? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/02/20 at 16:53:18 Almost there folks, its been a good minute since an update so heres me saying, "thumpy rides, but shes not quite road legal yet..." Got a verslavy all tucked away, thanks Versy! I'll definitely be throwing one in my wifes build once we get that rolling. The peace of mind is worth a much bigger pricetag than he asks for. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/02/20 at 16:53:46 The list as of now is: -Finish that rear brake, for now I'll settle for a hard line straight to it but I have some ideas rolling around for the oem cable. -break in the piston rings. -ascertain whether the loose right drum brake was the jingling I heard before -start work on a metal seatpan and new seat. I like what I was able to get to by hand but I know I can do better with the proper tools. Also with a new seat pan I can give the electronics and wiring more head room and get the seat inline with the tank. -repaint, this time my wife will have a hand in it as she is MUCH more artistic than me... -get that VM on there and dialed in and start looking at a head port and more aggressive cam -get a 3/4 or full rickman fairing. God they're hot. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/02/20 at 17:02:18 Boop |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by LANCER on 04/03/20 at 11:47:10 Did you do the front suspension mod ? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/03/20 at 12:00:16 I don't know about mod but I have the dcmotive top triple and the forks are raised in them? I didn't do the ryca deal if that's what you're asking. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/05/20 at 16:01:43 How does that even happen... This appears to be one of the filter things that goes on the raptor petcock. On the opposite side of the tank. What? Also while test riding today it started backfiring/hiccuping and died on me. Luckily I was in the neighborhood and pulling the choke out helped me limp back home. Any common reasons this happens? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/05/20 at 16:08:39 Boop |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by LANCER on 04/05/20 at 16:18:56 5D547362626B62070 wrote:
I was referring to the mod done by a member a few years back, where he used Race Tech springs and the Gold Emulator (?) plus drilling the damper rod. Do you remember ? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/05/20 at 16:32:41 I have read that post, have not done that mod however. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/05/20 at 16:37:16 Gave my carb a quick clean. Ive got the idle readout showing 1350ish and if I bump it it drops to 10/1100 before rising back up. Trying to start after I got back to the house it felt like it was just starved, ie it was backfiring on decel. Petcock is spitting fuel and I havent changed jetting. I didnt run into this problem the last time I went out. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/05/20 at 17:59:18 Threw the VM38 on there for shits. I've got Lancer down recommending 166 Q-0 needle, 17.5 pilot and 185 main for a suped up VM. I'm close with Q2NJ needle, 17.5 pilot and 200 main. There was one thing that I noticed was peculiar. After a few minutes of riding the idle speed jumped up from 12/1300 to 2400. Just pegged there. Is this a symptom of the jets being that far off or could this help identify some other issue? |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by srinath on 04/05/20 at 18:23:40 High idle when hot usually means its lean. You may need another 1/2 to 1 turn out @ the air mixture screw. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by LANCER on 04/06/20 at 10:54:06 0C052233333A33560 wrote:
You may have had a speck of something in the fuel, in the line, on the carb, etc. If it is adjusted ok for now then leave it and see how things go for a little while to see if the issue returns. If it is not running well then something is interfering; piece of grit, loose bolt, cable. The carb setup should function well. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/07/20 at 09:42:08 Tried playing with the air fuel mixture and the high idle under load is still there, albeit better. I'm going to guess a size up on the pilot is next. The other thing I'm noticing is this config runs HOT. There is heat absolutely radiating from every inch on it. Yes the pipe is single walled but it is slightly more open (1.625id) and the same length as the stocker. I'm using Rotella T4 as per batman for oil. The Q-0 needle jet Lancer recommends is leaner so I'm at a bit of a loss there. The popping is very reminiscent of stock config popping but only starts once it's well warmed up. Once the bike cools down I'll bump up the pilot to a 22.5 and see what happens. I'll also triple check my oil level (has been right in the middle the last few checks) and double check my valve clearances. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 04/07/20 at 12:13:17 Sooty up top and wet on the threads |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by stewmills on 04/07/20 at 12:41:33 Looks carbon fouled to me (too rich) |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ohiomoto on 08/25/21 at 18:12:25 Whatever happened with this build and ZSteele? I always felt like he was getting in too deep with all of the mods he was doing but I liked his gusto. (Too many mods at once is a recipe for trouble if you aren't experienced with said mods.) I know his WiFi got blocked but he was active for several months after. |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by ZSteele on 05/24/22 at 16:00:36 Life happened! Moved away from the city, changed jobs, had a baby. All sorts of hijinks! Currently the bike is torn down and I'm going to start from scratch with the seatpan, seat, electronics tray, etc. All of my electronics and wiring we're stable contrary to popular opinion so I won't be changing anything there, but I'll likely have to rewire it for cable management purposes. The battery and regrec will get a new box below the carb. This will allow me to take things leaner and cleaner with the brains under the seat. I'm looking at grabbing a new tank as well, something with better lines that I can use when I remake the hump. Likely I'll ditch the fuel gauge and maybe repurpose it with my wife's savage. I still dig an alternate route for the pipe but I think pie cut welding one myself is out of the question. Looking into sand bending but I'll likely tackle that last. I still want a 3/4 fairing, but I'd rather have a running bike [ch129394] Updates to come in time |
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Title: Re: Cafe Build Post by TheSneeze on 05/24/22 at 21:17:03 That all sounds great! Keep us updated as you can (with pics!). Congrats on the new family. |
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