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Message started by SavageMan99 on 05/01/19 at 15:15:15

Title: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/01/19 at 15:15:15

I want to bypass the side stand and clutch safeties.
I have the wire harness out in front of me.
Anyone know what to do?
My bike is an 88.
If anyone has a list of the plugs and photos ID'ing, extra kudos given.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/01/19 at 17:58:58

Both of these switches have two wires running to them , and each can be bypassed by simply cutting the two wires and joining them together.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/01/19 at 18:14:52

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/clutch-mod-wiring.jpg

Does it matter which orange wire goes where in the above diagram?
Also, do i keep the diode wired in the harness?

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/01/19 at 19:46:53

You're not removing the diode, your removing the side stand relay, I don't understand why. If the side stand switch is working I'd leave it for safety reasons, and just bypass the clutch ,by unplugging it at the clutch lever and tracing it back to the main harness where the two wires can be cut and joined .

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/01/19 at 19:53:14

Why?

Because I want it that way.
I want only a neutral safety interlock to the starter.
I'm trying to use the ryca plan to do so.
When done I want it to start when only in neutral.
Next will be a manual decompression lever.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/01/19 at 20:19:55

Ok, what the heck is a "neutral safety interlock" ???? The only thing that stops the bike from starting in gear, with the clutch switch bypassed, IS the side stand switch ! If Ryca is telling you that the side stand switch needs to be bypassed that lowers my already low opinion of them.
If you're going to a manual decomp lever then you only need to bypass the clutch switch to free up your left hand to use it, but if you bypass the side stand switch, and forget to put the bike in neutral ,you'll have one hand on the bars to push the starter button and one on the decomp lever ,when the starter makes the bike jump forward , off the side stand and your right hand pulls the front wheel to the right and your bike (and maybe you ) crash to the ground. Not only embarrassing ,but it's broken a lot of turn signals. (maybe Ryca will have some for sale).

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/19 at 20:34:50

When done I want it to start when only in neutral.

Leave the sidestand interlock alone
Only hit start
In neutral
With the sidestand down

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/01/19 at 21:18:34

The way I'm trying to do it, it will need to be in neutral to start.
No clutch needed. No side stand switch.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by TimK on 05/01/19 at 21:50:22

it's cool, your project. just short the wires together that you want the associated switch bypassed.

If it doesn't ever start, then just check the remaining neutral switch.

reminds me,.. back when my grandpa drove a broken down 1948 International Harvester 6 volt farm truck full of crop up from the field just by holding the floor starter switch down with his foot. I learned to double clutch on that thing, lol, think it had no synchro's and square gears.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/01/19 at 23:06:34

Savageman 99 , You can lead a horse to water ,but you can't make him think. :D. Please go back and read JOG's and my last entries .
The only purpose of the side stand switch is to prevent you from trying to start the bike in gear, if you bypass it you will fail to have the bike try to start only in neutral.
It's not crazy ,it's just the truth.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/19 at 23:38:16

It's possible to accomplish that, but the explanation is gonna be all based on
Hoping it works.
But
IF you can figure out how to use the neutral light circuit in the decompression timer firing circuit
You can have your setup

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by Dave on 05/02/19 at 02:58:19

I believe the side stand switch kills the ignition if you try to put the bike in gear while the engine is running....it doesn't affect the starting process unless you are trying to start the bike in gear with the side stand down - if you get the bike started and put it in gear....the ignition circuit stops working and the bike stops running. The clutch safety does prevent the starter from working if the bike is in gear and you push the starter button without first pulling in the clutch.

The sidestand switch does go bad sometimes - we have had several forum members who have had problems with it and been stranded.....or at least inconvenienced when they can't get their bike to run. If you remove the clutch safety switch......you will not have the "neutral" safety anymore....the starter will function in or out of gear if you push the starter button (the starter circuit believes you have already pulled in the clutch). There have been a handful of people with clutch safety issues - most of them from broken or loose wiring....or the plastic tab broken from the switch.

I have no problem with you removing the safety switches if you don't want them and you won't get a lecture from me - mine have been gone for 6 years and I am not dead yet. (I want the bike as simple as possible to prevent being stranded by a faulty switch....and I have also removed the decompression circuit and have a manual decompression release). I grew up in an era when safety switches didn't exist exist....and my dirt bikes didn't have neutral lights. The drill was to get on the bike and grab the handlebars, pull it up off the kickstand, roll it forward/back to check for neutral, turn on the petcock, turn on the ignition, set the choke....and kick start the bike. (I still do the same today - I just don't have a kick starter anymore).

The RYCA instructions on their website or YouTube go into great detail about how to bypass the decompression release. For the clutch and sidestand safety switches you just need to remove the wires from the switches and join them together - don't worry about what color they are....there are only 2 wires to each switch and they just need to be wired together).

Here is a link to a thread about wiring mods that will allow you to make a change that allows you to start the bike in neutral without having to use the clutch (just adds complexity in my opinion).
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1351188539

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/02/19 at 07:06:00

The last post is the diagram I am referencing.
I am curious if it matters which orange wire goes where.
Thank you.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by Dave on 05/02/19 at 07:38:51

7446514640426A46491E1E270 wrote:

The last post is the diagram I am referencing.
I am curious if it matters which orange wire goes where.
Thank you.

Dunno - but I suspect not.

In "stock condition" - Solid Orange wires in the wiring harness are power wires - they carry the power supply and are generally not switched if the wire doesn't have a white stripe (they may be activated by the key switch but not by any control switch). Once you start cutting and splicing......the standard colors and stripes may no longer be applicable.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by SavageMan99 on 05/02/19 at 09:20:02

Thank you all.
I appreciate all the help and advice here. I'm an inveterate tinkerer, and always fixing old stuff.
I've got a yard full of projects, from a Miller welder generator, to a Snapper 1650 garden tractor, to a Ford jubilee and a couple Ford diesel 3000's, to my vehicles. I've also an intruder 1400 I just traded into, honestly it seems a bit over powered to me.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/19 at 09:33:28

What you want can MAYBE be accomplished.DEpends on the design of the decompression module and where ground comes from. You're trying to redesign it to operate not just to Allow it to start with the stand down and clutch out, but only in neutral. Since you want it to start
Only in neutral, the only way I can see that happening is to involve the
Neutral indicator.
You're gonna need to use the neutral light circuit to be the ground or power for the decompression timer that fires when you push start.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/02/19 at 10:23:48

While Dave has bypassed both switches ,and had no problem ,he hasn't fessed up to the fact that his manual compression level sits just inboard of his clutch lever allowing him to pull the clutch lever and decomp in at the same time, so if the bike is started in gear it will not jump . Ryca 's manual hand level does not afford that ability, which is why I would retain the sidestand switch., Savageman 99 also stated that he wanted the bike to start only in neutral, this can only happen if the side stand switch is retained, and it still allows some safety, in that the bike's kickstand can't pogo and force a crash , nor jump if started in gear , because the ignition dies when the bike is placed in gear. the clutch bypass is simple ,just tie the to wires going to the clutch switch together wherever convenient , it's not rocket science . But to each his own, I just hate turning mole hills into mountains.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/19 at 10:38:17

Savageman 99 also stated that he wanted the bike to start only in neutral, this can only happen if the side stand switch is retained, and it still allows some safety, in that the bike's kickstand can't pogo and force a crash ,because the ignition dies when the bike is placed in gear.

Maybe you missed my post.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/02/19 at 12:19:09

Jog , If your addressing me ,I did miss your post, but if he's going to a manual decomp lever ,I doubt the decomp timer will be retained.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by Dave on 05/02/19 at 13:14:54

3C3F2A333F306A665E0 wrote:

99 out of 100 times....I never need the decompression release and don't use it. I push the starter button and the bike fires up almost immediately - but every once in a while the engine will be stopped with the piston at BDC on the compression stroke, and the starter cannot push the piston over TDC to get things going - so I let go of the starter button and grab the compression release lever to dump the compression and then push the starter button. (IF I were ever to leave the bike in gear and push the starter button......the bike would try to move. I don't know if the starter actually has enough power to move the bike and start the engine simultaneously....but in theory it could).

I didn't build this bike to suit anybody else's wants and desires - I put things together so I would have the bike I wanted. When I turn on my key....I am sitting in the seat, my right hand is on the handlebar, I look for the neutral light - and then I push the start button.

If Savageman99 wants to build his bike his way......Cool!

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by batman on 05/02/19 at 14:33:14

Dave I have no objection to the right to build his ,yours or anyone's bike to their liking . I was trying to describe the simplest /easiest way to accomplish his goals , to bypass the clutch switch ,and to allow the bike to start in neutral only . Based on the fact that he has come here for help, I've tried to give him as complete and honest advice as possible. If he chooses to follow it is completely up to him.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by badwolf on 05/02/19 at 15:20:14

Dave, Yes the starter with a good battery has the power to start the bike in gear and get you going. I broke a clutch cable 60 miles from home and that is how I got back. Coast to a stop in neutral, kill the engine, put the bike in 1st, wait till you have at least 20 feet clear in front of you, and hit the starter. Bike will jerk forward till it fires then away you go. It is quite awkard for the first 10-12 feet, but it worked to get me home.

Title: Re: Wiring help, lost manual.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/19 at 15:36:05

When my cable broke I slipped into neutral at stops, Flintstoned it as good as I could, put it in first and gassed it. Worked smoother than I expected.