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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Tune up /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1552592569 Message started by springman on 03/14/19 at 12:42:49 |
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Title: Tune up Post by springman on 03/14/19 at 12:42:49 Hey ya'll. I'll be at 31,000 miles on the bike shortly. I'm thinking of doing a tune up and valve adjustment soon. Any recommendations or anything I should be on the lookout for? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by verslagen1 on 03/14/19 at 13:06:52 dirt around the sparkplug. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Oldfeller on 03/14/19 at 20:12:20 By this he means "Be very wary of any dirt you find in the spark plug recess area --- clean it up with solvent and water pressure several times until NO GRIT REMAINS to go down the open spark plug hole and drastically shorten your engine life ......" My clean up routine is Brake Parts Cleaner and a brush scrub applied twice to cut the baked on crap, then while it is still wet and sloppy with Brake Parts cleaner apply Engine Degreaser over the solvent then scrub with a stiff bristle brush again, then blow it clean with a high pressure stream of water, then blow the water out with air ---- then let it dry good. I want that hole area CLEAN and DRY before opening it up ..... Do not crank the engine with the hole open as it creates a cyclonic suck action that can bring grit from far away and suck it right down into the engine. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by MMRanch on 03/15/19 at 02:12:14 You will check the valve clearance before you loosen the set nut ? There could be no adjustment needed . ;) Are ya going to put one of those "low-engery sucking " iridium spark plugs in it ? I'm under the impression they are less demanding on you spark system ???? :-? lower amperage draw ? While ya got the fuel tank off , ya might as well check the Head bolts . If ya got a tork wrench . it might be good to check the tightness of everything under there ! ::) But be extra gentle on them little ones ! An "inch-pound" wrench is better (harbor freight 1/4" ) <$15.oo minus 20% ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/15/19 at 04:11:56 If you decide to "check" the torque on the head studs......it is not as simple as just pulling on them.....and it requires you to remove the head cap and redo all the sealer (unless you have an oil leak I wouldn't think you would want to do all this work). The right front and left rear stud are exposed to the elements and corrode tight.......they will not move at the recommended torque setting. If you want to check them you need to remove them, clean up the threads, apply anti-sieze to the threads, then torque them. The left front and right rear studs can weep oil.....so I apply a small amount of sealer to both sides of the copper washer when assembling (or retorqueing) these studs. The short studs under the intake and exhaust valve can weep oil as well, and they can benefit from the use of sealer on the bottom of the flange nut and the threads. (These nuts have a smooth flange and should not have any washer under them). |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by ohiomoto on 03/15/19 at 07:10:54 You've gotten 31k out of so far so don't fix what's not broke. Like MMRanch stated, check your valves and cam chain wear, etc, but don't go doing crap that doesn't need to be done. These are simple motors with simple needs. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/19 at 12:09:04 I'd put a socket on the upper engine mount bolts and make sure they are not in the process of loosening up. It's truly maddening having that vibration slowly get worse until you are no longer wondering if you're experiencing a vibration until it's Frikken obvious.. Then you can pop the tank off Uhgain.. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Ruttly on 03/15/19 at 14:09:50 Agreed , check the cam chain , adjust the valves , maybe a new spark plug , clean or replace air filter , fuel filter if you run one , oil & filter Call that a done tune up ! Get that tune up behind you and go ride Springer. Bad weather is almost gone , time to renew the mind & soul. There is only one cure for our sickness , RIDE ;D |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/15/19 at 14:32:23 Thanks to all. I guess a good engine cleaning is in order before getting started with anything. I will check the valve clearance before loosening the bolts, as the valves could be just fine. I've always read that the original copper spark plugs are actually the best for the ignition, just that they do not last as long as the newer fancy metal plugs. If I am wrong about the spark plugs please let me know. I am dealing with some sort of oil leak, enough that after a 30 mile high speed ride my key is a bit slippery. Bear in mind that most of the riding in the Houston area is at 70 mph or above. If I decide to go through the trouble of pulling the head cap to loosen and re-torque the bolts, is there any gasket I need to replace? I had not thought about the engine mount bolts at all. Thanks. I had not thought about checking the cam chain and really not sure how to do it or what to look for. I put the Versy tensioner on just in the nick of time somewhere around 15 or 16K miles. Everything seemed fine at that time. Is there another way to check the cam chain or only by opening up the crank case? |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by batman on 03/15/19 at 18:14:21 Springman, If the chain was in need of a Vercy tensioner at 15-16 ,000 miles, I'd be checking it at 31,000 . |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by MMRanch on 03/15/19 at 22:18:55 Springman , That Ultra Gray gasket maker is better than the side cover gasket , and it is the only thing to use on the top cover. on the side cover apply a solid coat to both sides , wait 15 minutes , then when you easy the side cover on ... just go a loose finger tight at first ... after about 15 minutes additional drying time finish torquing it up. it will all squeeze out too much if ya don't wait. Doin't forget three of the side cover bolts have that special washer - but ultra gray works on then too. Up on the head cover , if ya don't squeeze out the excess then the cam bearing might have some extra slop ! There is some gasket maker the bike shops use but its only Ultra Gray in a fancy package with a triple price on it ! ;) well , thats what been working for me with no leaks so far. :) |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/19 at 22:42:21 Draw outline of cover on cardboard Poke slot at each bolt location Poke each bolt in cardboard Assembly is not a puzzle |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/16/19 at 04:31:43 MM and I don't agree on the side cover....I use the factory gasket. I use gaskets where the factory used them.....and sealer where the factory used it. I use the Suzubond on the black engines....and Hondabond or 3Bond on the silver engines as the gray color blends in better than black. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by MMRanch on 03/16/19 at 18:17:51 NO leaks ! but Suzuki does like to sell gaskets ? ;) Some folks might get too much on and make a mess of things , so the gasket is a fool-proof way to keep things neat . I'll have to say : Your bike draws a lot of lookers everywhere we stop ! :) |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/18/19 at 09:39:23 Thanks again for the input. I will probably just order a gasket on ebay so I can check the chain and tensioner. Just one question here though, other than just something terribly obvious, what am I looking for? If I recall correctly I installed the versy tensioner on the second (farthest hole) when I first got it. The weekends have been just too nice lately to do any real wrenching or to nasty to want to do any wrenching so over the last few weekends I have changed the oil and filter, added zddp, installed new air filter and washed the bike and motor. The bike for the most part looks pretty clean now, but the engine even after using a full can of brake cleaner and a tooth brush, still looks somewhat dirty to me. I think I will get another can of brake cleaner and a larger stiffer bristle brush and try again. In the meantime, I ride when I can. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/18/19 at 09:48:00 What you are looking for in the tensioner....is how far out the plunger is. Before being modified, the limit is 20mm extension as the plunger is close to coming out. With the Verslagen tensioner....you are looking to see if there is any travel left where the roll pin travels in the milled slot. If the travel is almost used up and you have already moved the bolt to the second hole....you are almost at the limit and a new cam chain and guides are in your future. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by verslagen1 on 03/18/19 at 10:48:06 4546445F58515B5758360 wrote:
I wouldn't use brake cleaner except for the most stubborn areas, such as the area next to the spark plug that can bake on grease. Otherwise the cheapo degreaser from wally world works fine. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/18/19 at 12:10:43 Dave, now that you indicated what to look for, I almost wish I would not have asked. I suspect changing the chain and guides is not a half hour job. Thanks for the tip Versy. I guess with a good brush the other cleaner should be sufficient. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/18/19 at 12:55:04 Springman: Just think of the possibilities! If you need a new cam chain and guides...might was well install a performance cam! ;) |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/18/19 at 15:02:35 I must admit, I got a good chuckle out of that Dave. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/21/19 at 16:22:24 Looks like I am not through ordering parts. I am getting a bit of clutch slip under hard acceleration. I always run Rotella so I suspect I need the clutch push rod. The other item is that my rear brake is squealing. Is it possible I have worn out the rear pads? Not really looking forward to checking that as no matter how careful I am, properly aligning the rear wheel to the belt is always a multi attempt pain in the rear. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/19 at 19:06:41 2C2F2D363138323E315F0 wrote:
Not worn out. Clean it up when it's time for a tire. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/22/19 at 04:43:35 Your squeally rear brake is most likely just rust and dirt. Take it apart and clean out all the crap, light scuff the pads until the shine is gone, lightly scuff the steel drum until the rust is gone. Clean everything with brake cleaner. While it is apart make sure the lever moves freely....lube the pivot. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/19 at 07:36:31 I cut the lead part of the shoe at a 45° so that dust is swept to the open end of the hub. And with a sharp step instead of a taper which allows the dust between the shoe and drum. Dust is the enemy and causes squealing. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/22/19 at 08:05:12 Thanks I appreciate all the input regarding the brakes, but I think it is fixed cause I did no hear them squeal one bit this morning. Those ear plugs are great! ;D OK, next tire change clean it all out with break cleaner. Thanks. JOG, thanks for the suggestion on the clutch adjustment. Versy knows I am not very good at adjusting the clutch as he adjusted it for me once. I will look at it in the morning and try what you suggested. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by MMRanch on 03/26/19 at 08:43:28 SpringMan My bike is coming up on 50,000 miles and had a clutch-slipping issue that I couldn't adjust out or fix with different rod lengths . So , I got new fiber plates and springs . the problem didn't go away with the new plates ... they were only slightly thicker than the old ones ??? :-/ ... After measuring the space inside the clutch basket with NO plates in it , then measuring the plates with No basket ... I found the problem. The clutch basket has an Aluminum plate for the (bottom) next to the motor. The clutch has steel plates in-between the fiber plates. The aluminum backing plate is the weak link that wears in the whole thing. Adding an extra steel plate to make a thicker group of plates solved the problem . Now , the clutch has enough material inside the basket to pinch-a-grip on ! But The basket is now .060" thicker (extra steel plate) ... minus the amount the aluminum back wore-off. So , you'll need a push rod about .040" shorter , but try if before ya go cutting the push rod. I've had my clutch cover off 10 times or more, trying different stuff. That's how I came to use form-a-gasket so much ... I got tired of buying/making gaskets ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/26/19 at 19:45:11 That is really interesting MM. I am waiting on a few parts to arrive and have forgotten to order the push rods. I actually installed new clutch fiber plates and new springs about 15K miles ago because the clutch was slipping badly (probably from incorrect oil). I have played with the adjustment a bit over the last few days but I am not sure I have it right yet. I'll continue to play with it and see if I can get it right. If I can't I may need to look for a steel clutch plate and try you fix. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by MMRanch on 03/27/19 at 22:14:11 That push rod ... go to the hardware store and buy a 1/4" steel rod . they come in 1' , 3' , 4' lengths ... if ya have a hack-saw and a file you can have any length push rod ya want . ya might polish it with a piece of sandpaper and a drill to make it pretty ? ;) The drill and file will help ya round the ends in a nice way too ! :) |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Oldfeller on 03/27/19 at 22:36:19 Springman, The push rod has to be VERY TOUGH and VERY HARD. Drill rod isn't going to last but a month or so before it is worn away and gone. Dowel pin steel isn't good enough to last but like a half a year. I use M2 tool steel (round lathe bits) for my push rods, which does last for years and years. The wear is all transferred to the sintered powder metal parts that the pushrod actuates against. This lesser wear still happens though, changing the engagement point accordingly. As MM mentions, your aluminum plate and your pushrods are the major wear points that cause your clutch pack to get whacky. Plate wear is actually a minor wear amount in the total stack of the clutch system. It is NOT generally plate wear that causes clutch packs to get replaced -- contamination with friction modifiers is the main cause of clutch failures to my experience. Rotella T synthetic has moly oil in it now, so far Dino Rotella does not have any moly oil in it. (I need to go look again as this stuff likes to change while you are not watching). NOTE INSERTED BY DAVE: The new T6 in the blue bottle is fine....don't use the old T6 in the white bottle. I collect worn clutches (steels and friction plates) from folks that consider them totally shot ...... However, while recognizing that Clymers lists the plate thicknesses ass-backwards in the book, NONE of the plates I have measured has yet ever been worn out of spec. I await enough wear in my original pack to put in an extra steel and an extra friction plate into a "very well worn" clutch pack, but suspect I will not live long enough to see that happen. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/19 at 05:57:36 Rotella T synthetic has moly oil in it now, Ohhh, say it ain't so.. I JUST put T6 in mine.. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by Dave on 03/28/19 at 06:30:13 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
No...the current formula for T6 is fine and recommended! For a year or two Rotella T6 got a dose of "too much moly" and was causing clutch slippage. If you have an old white bottle of T6......don't use it in your motorcycle. The new blue bottles of T6 are fine, I am using it in my modified motor and I have no clutch slippage. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/19 at 10:03:30 Never before have I been Blue And happy. Slap another gold star on your scoreboard, Dave. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by springman on 03/28/19 at 12:17:59 I am using Rotella dino oil right now but I have used the synthetic in the past and I do not remember the color of the jug. :( I played with the clutch adjustments a bit but still feel like it is slipping on occasion. I'll play with it a bit more. I do not know what kind of steel rod I can get around here, but I will take a look to see if I can manufacture my own push rods. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Tune up Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/19 at 17:35:40 It's not like they are expensive. Why risk spending the time, energy, and cost of going back in to save a few bucks? |
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