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Message started by peejster on 01/29/19 at 17:36:04

Title: Lithium Battery Options
Post by peejster on 01/29/19 at 17:36:04

I did some looking around and saw several references to lithium batteries as a replacement for the brick of a battery that comes stock. I too would like to eliminate some weight and some bulk so I am looking at going that route.

I have seen references to Ballistic (maybe here or maybe other sites) but with them shutting their doors last month, I will not be going that route.

I have seen people using Antigravity batteries - that seems like a viable option; I am looking at the 8 cell. It's a good size/weight and it has plenty of cold cranking amps (it took several times of reading the product description until I realized that it was 240 CA (not 240 CCA) but even the 192 CCA will be more than enough).

I am currently leaning towards the Shorai. Wondering if anyone has any experience with this battery. All the specs seem good except one - the product listing states that the charge system must not output more than 15.2v but based on the Clymer Service Manual, the LS650 charging system puts out up to 15.5 volts. Anyone know how accurate that is? If my bike wasn't already apart, I would just test it myself.

Here is a link to the Shorai:
https://shoraipower.com/lfx14a1-bs12-p62

Thanks
peejster

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 01/29/19 at 18:25:18

I bought an Earth-X......it is super light and works just fine.

I bought it just about this time of year in 2013.....so it is 6 years old and shows no signs of getting weaker.

(Gyrobob had problems with them and hates EarthX)

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Eegore on 01/29/19 at 19:26:29

My experience with Antigravity has been a 33% usability rate.

Some come dead, some last less than a year. Some work as intended.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ohiomoto on 01/30/19 at 05:57:01

I've been running a little Antigravity AG-801 for two full seasons now. Working out great for me.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Ruttly on 01/30/19 at 12:30:13

I have a Shorai in my sportster for about five years. Top quality , it's always ready go. Just remember if you use a lithium battery you must have a lithium charger. Think the tracker has a BatteryTender brand lithium battery , seems to be of good quality as well. The Shorai are highly rated as well as highly priced !

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by antmanbee on 01/30/19 at 17:51:36

I have a Battery Tender Lithium Iron BTL14A240C in my S40 for 2 years now.
I just purchased a WPS Featherweight Lithium Battery 380CCA Hjtx20Ah-Fp-Q for my V11 sport naked. This battery lays on it's side.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by peejster on 01/31/19 at 12:14:12

6B4C4D4D5540390 wrote:

Did you have to make any changes to the charging system / rectifier on the bike or did the stock setup work?

Yes, mounting flexibility - i.e. laying it on it's side - is a big reason I am looking to go lithium.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Ruttly on 02/01/19 at 04:05:19

No mods needed , plug n play ! Just added foam spacers that came with both batteries to keep them tight in battery box. Cut just under ten pounds on the tracker just changing the battery , even more on the sportster.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gyrobob on 03/06/19 at 08:18:42

Two out of three earth-x batteries I bought failed. They swelled up and leaked blue crap all over my FJR-1300 and my RYCA bike. The owner's attitude essentially was "you did something wrong because our batteries are perfect. Go pound sand"

I use Firepower brand now. They are the same battery Honda uses in some of their bikes,.. they are just labeled differently.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Firepower%20battery%2002a_zpsugrix6wy.jpg

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by SpamyToo on 03/06/19 at 15:19:58

I personally have had bad luck with the lithium batteries. Ive used 5 on 3 different bikes and all of them started having problems within the first year and a half. At $150 a pop or more I cant bring myself to buy them anymore.

Ive always used the correct chargers, and even balance chargers and never got great results.

So for now I have just been using Sealed AGM batteries (like the optima batteries). They have been working great, even if it dies from the heavy load of this thumper compression after a few years the batteries only cost 20-30 bucks so no big deal.

Also, they are about the same size as the lithium battery and not too heavy. Ill have to peek it, but I think it was this model...

https://www.batterysharks.com/Yuasa-YTX9-BS-p/YTX9-BS_M12-8-120-D.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk5L42dLu4AIVsR-tBh3WPArxEAQYASABEgIu_vD_BwE

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gyrobob on 03/06/19 at 16:35:29

These batteries that Honda uses OEM have an internal balancing system so the individual cells are handled independently. Earth-x batteries are supposed to do that but they tend to swell up pop, spewing blue stuff all over.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by SpamyToo on 03/06/19 at 17:10:38

I wanted to make a correction,

Actually this is the battery I have been using. Even smaller, but its been working good. ;D

I havent had to at all, but I dont mind jump starting my bike down a hill if needed, some people aint gonna take that chance. But like I said, its been fine for over a year now. I wanted minimal size and weight, but tired of expensive lithium failures. My brothers been using his for 3 years now, still cranking.

I keep it on a tender when sitting.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SigmasTek-ST5L-BS-Battery-Replacement/684786640

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Jonty03 on 03/07/19 at 12:08:58

If you're thinking of changing to a lithium ion battery you might want to think about changing your regulator/rectifier to this:
https://shop.revivalcycles.com/lifepo4-lithium-battery-optimized-mosfet-regulator-rectifier/

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Jonty03 on 03/07/19 at 12:12:52

Sorry it cut the end off the link!!!
Revival Cycles - lithium optimised reg/rectifier.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/19 at 12:18:15

5550515E4B575E515D4D5047575053525A3F0 wrote:

Sorry it cut the end off the link!!!
Revival Cycles - lithium optimised reg/rectifier.

If you use the hyperlink button, it fixes that issue.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/19 at 12:26:14

You can get used MOSFETs style reg/recs like the FH020AA thru FH008 from Shindengen made for other bikes.

As long as you match the output wires, you shouldn't have any problems splicing it in.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ohiomoto on 03/07/19 at 16:32:20

3732333C29353C333F2F322535323130385D0 wrote:

Why?? Our stock charging system works just fine with one of these https://shop.revivalcycles.com/cart.php?suggest=22355051-b8b5-42c7-9c3c-a2ec57be3007

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Stånka on 03/10/19 at 08:12:18

Hi all

Something I used for years
BMZ LITHIUM POWERBLOC MODEL 5.5 AH
https://www.bmz-group.com/Products/Starter-Batteries/EN_index_1876.html
You have a perfect fit on the exhaust mount in front of the back wheel
Think I gave $190 for it

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Prophetdk on 01/21/21 at 03:07:33

I got a 1987 ls650, do i need to change anything before mounting a lithium battery.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/21/21 at 06:20:02

You should make sure that your R/R isn't producing too much power. Most lithium batteries like to charge between 14.2 to 14.5 volts (check the battery manufacturer) and a lot of Suzuki R/R's allow over 14.6VDC.

If you are over voltage I'd suggest a "smart" LiFePO4 battery that shuts down the current to the battery if it exceeds the maximum allowed voltage. In fact, without a volt meter on your bike it just makes sense to get a smart battery with internal electronics. This way if you R/R fails and produces an over current situation, your bike won't catch on fire.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/26/21 at 13:44:03

All of my bike have a lithium battery installed. It's been 2 months since I last rode my bikes that have a carburetor (the FI bike gets ridden when the roads are clear of sand & salt). Today I put those bikes on the Battery Tender trickle charger just to make sure they were topped off.

When I installed the batteries I also installed charging ports/cables to make the winter and spring charging an easy process. I attached the charger to the first bike (Scrambler) and the indicator on the charger recognized that it had attached to lithium battery and that it was in charging mode. I turned around to see where I hid the charging port on the cafe racer and after a brief search I found it where the seat pan and battery box/inner fender come together. I removed the rubber cap and turned around to see the status of the battery of the Scrambler and saw that the battery was fully charged. It took as long to type this paragraph as it did for the battery to charge...because there was almost zero discharge after 60 days.

I hooked up the charger to cafe racer...same result. These lithium batteries just don't discharge very much over a long period of disuse. If you hate charging your battery every spring after winter storage, that will be a thing of the past with a lithium battery.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 01/26/21 at 14:07:16

My Cafe' bike has an EarthX Lithium battery, and it is parked from sometime in November until April.....sorta weather dependent. It is put away as soon as the put salt on the roads and stays that way until the spring rains wash the salt off the roads. There is nothing on the bike that draws any power once the key is turned off.....there are no clocks or computers or anything using power.

I have not put a battery tender on the bike since the battery was new in 2013.........and it fires right up every spring!

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/21 at 14:44:05

Dave, have you removed the decomp controller from your bike?
That does draw about 50ma continuously.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Slowlane on 01/27/21 at 06:12:54

Has anybody tried a small $20 walmart battery like Spammy is using???

Actually this is the battery I have been using. Even smaller, but its been working good. ;D

I havent had to at all, but I dont mind jump starting my bike down a hill if needed, some people aint gonna take that chance. But like I said, its been fine for over a year now. I wanted minimal size and weight, but tired of expensive lithium failures. My brothers been using his for 3 years now, still cranking.

I keep it on a tender when sitting.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SigmasTek-ST5L-BS-Battery-Replacement/684786640[/quote]

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 01/27/21 at 10:13:04

362532332C2127252E71400 wrote:

Dave, have you removed the decomp controller from your bike?
That does draw about 50ma continuously.

Yep.....my compression release is manual, and the controller is gone.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Slowlane on 01/27/21 at 19:26:12

I got this coming in around feb 5. Very interested in how it will work...It would be really nice to have extra room in the batt box to lengthen the cables for easy hook up and removal. https://www.walmart.com/ip/BATTERY-BTZ7S-FA/720108216

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 01/28/21 at 03:27:33

CCA is a rating that defines a battery's ability to start an engine in cold temperatures. The rating refers to the number of amps a 12-volt battery can deliver at 0°F for 30 seconds while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts per cell. This rating method is somewhat vintage and not all that applicable to modern engines with electronic ignition or fuel injection computers......as you likely won't get any spark or fuel when the voltage drops below 10 or 11 volts.

The original battery is in the vicinity of 220 Cold Cranking Amps.

The $38.85 battery from Walmart that Slow Lane listed has 150 Cold Cranking Amps.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/BATTERY-BTZ7S-FA/720108216

The $19.89 battery from Walmart only has 80 Cold Cranking Amps.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/SigmasTek-ST5L-BS-Battery-Replacement/684786640

The EXT12A EarthX Lithium Battery I have is rated at a "pulse" rate of 220 amps and a Cold Cranking Rating of 135 Amps. Lithium batteries cannot be directly compared to Lead Acid batteries as the discharge is different......Lithium batteries supply a very consistent voltage near the maximum under load - while Lead Acid batteries have a constant voltage drop as the battery discharges. I ride in weather that is always above 50 and my bike is stored in a heated garage - when I push my starter button the bike always starts within one or two revolutions and I never put much of a strain on the battery.

The 220 Cold Cranking Amp battery that Suzuki installed is a "World Battery", and it along with the multi-grade oils, compression release and choke allow the bike to be started in weather that is soooooo cold that I would never be riding a motorcycle in that weather! We had a member named Raydawg who lived in Washington State and he rode his Savage as his commuter to work and he had to start and ride his bike in really cold weather, and the 220 Cold Cranking Amps was likely necessary for him......especially as the battery ages and begins to lose some of power it had when new.

So with all that being said - if you ride in warm weather and you don't need to start your motorcycle on a cold winter morning, you likely don't need a battery that has 220 Cold Cranking Amps to get the bike fired up. Battery performance in warm weather is much better than it is when the battery is at 0 degrees, and your bike will start just fine if the battery can provide cranking power while still provide at least 10.5 volts to the ignition module.....which I believe is the voltage necessary for the Savage ignition to create a spark. As the battery ages and it can no longer provide the needed cranking battery and voltage - it will need to be replaced. The smaller batteries have less "reserve" capacity and all other things being equal - it may not provide adequate service at long as the higher powered original equipment battery.

Slowlane.....I believe you did a good thing buying the larger battery! :)

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Slowlane on 01/28/21 at 08:30:15

Dave thank you for your in depth knowledge the time to put it in writing. I dont go to casinos but I will put 38 bucks out here in NW Fla to see if I can get more room to move around in the batt box and extend the terminals to allow removal/installation a lot easier. I will keep the board up to date on this new battery. Thanks, Slowlane

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ckahleer on 01/28/21 at 10:30:30

I like when a battery lists both AH and CCA. If you do the math, that 6AH should be able to supply 150 amps for 2.4 minutes. Much more cranking than should ever be necessary.
Do we know how many amps a savage draws when starting?

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 01/29/21 at 09:11:58

7847445C474A454E2B0 wrote:

I don't go to casinos but I will put 38 bucks out here in NW Fla to see if I can get more room

The battery demand in NW Florida is far less than it would be in areas where folks ride in cold weather.

I looked it up, and a lead acid battery has 60% capacity at 0 degrees Fahrenheit - so at 60 degree temperatures your battery rated at 150 CCA will likely be able to produce 250 Amps.

Those folks that ride in cold weather have three issues that you likely don't have in Florida. The battery performance is lower in cold temperatures, the oil is thick and the starter has a tougher time turning the engine over - and the cold fuel does not want to atomize......and it is likely the engine will have to turn over a bit more until the spark plug can get the cold fuel/air mix to ignite.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Zepp on 02/02/21 at 15:14:42

3F252E362E24202B364F0 wrote:

Hey, try the Lithium patway if you want, but its not gonna solve any wheigt issues at al!
This bike is a light weight bike as it comes, the problem is often the driver, or his passenger! :o
Mainly becuse ouer bike is alredy a low wheigt bike.. and the lead battery is a minuskel of that weight!
Its this, the weight of the driver is more importante then the weight of the battery!

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ohiomoto on 02/10/21 at 05:07:34

I use the Antigravity AG-801. It's small, light, and packs some punch.

It has been maintenance free for the past 3 years. I left my key on twice though. Had to take my seat of to get a jump once. I was able to bump start it the other time. I just rode the bike to recharge the battery and it's been fine.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-801/

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Eegore on 02/10/21 at 13:07:49

I thought if you let these run out they were permanently damaged.

What kind of battery am I thinking of?

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/10/21 at 13:32:51

78585A524F583D0 wrote:
I thought if you let these run out they were permanently damaged.

What kind of battery am I thinking of?

That is true...IF...the battery doesn't include Battery Management System technology (BMS). The BMS will cut power if the voltage drops below 11VDC or exceeds 14.8VDC. It's worth spending the extra $50 or so to get a battery with BMS.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Eegore on 02/11/21 at 08:29:55

Ok that's what I need then.

I have easily thrown out 10-15 batteries due to this so I went back to the stock type.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by zipidachimp on 02/16/21 at 23:41:23

My battery failed last October, wet cell, 6 yrs old. I store my batteries inside until March/April, charge once a month. Weight's only a factor if you're building a hotrod, AGM/GEL is the most cost effective. your mileage may differ!!!!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ohiomoto on 02/17/21 at 19:46:12

Sometimes size matters.
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 02/18/21 at 04:37:42

484F4E484A485348270 wrote:

Sometimes size matters.
Cheers! 8-)

Are we talking about envelopes to mail stuff?

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by verslagen1 on 02/18/21 at 11:02:09

58636E7968647F79626A67780B0 wrote:

[quote author=484F4E484A485348270 link=1548812164/30#36 date=1613619972]Sometimes size matters.
Cheers! 8-)

Are we talking about envelopes to mail stuff?[/quote]

Mailmen get upset when the contents bounce around like a pebble in a hubcap.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Zepp on 02/18/21 at 13:25:35

What ever.. the weight of our battery is not of any importance!

That matter is often the quality of the battery.. moste often the meantace of the battery!

In any case, every battery have a best befor time, but if one maintance/preserv it could last up to 5 years, or more!

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Dave on 02/18/21 at 16:14:45

754A5F5F2F0 wrote:

In any case, every battery has a best before time, but if one maintain/preserve it could last up to 5 years, or more!

I bought a used 2002 Honda ST1100 that still had the OEM Yuasa battery with the Honda logo imprinted on the side. I guess the fact that the bike was stored in a heated garage and they used a battery tender regularly contributed to a long life for the battery. When it failed it died instantly - I pulled into a gas station and after fueling the battery would not even power the neutral light! I got a battery jump and took a 40 mile ride home hoping the battery would charge on the way home, then when I got home it was still dead. I tried charging the battery with a small 1.5 Amp charger - it would not take a charge at all.

The battery was replaced in 2017.....it was a 15 year old battery! The Honda dealer where I got the replacement battery confirmed it was the original OEM factory battery - and they said the replacement Yuasa battery was guaranteed not to last that long!

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by LANCER on 02/18/21 at 22:08:33

6F504545350 wrote:

**********************

For sure, the quality of our OEM equipment is very important, but maintenance of such delicate equipment is important as well; because it is required if full function is desired into the later years.
Yep, it is.
I pray my “best before time” continues unabated. [ch128077][ch128513][ch127949]

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/19/21 at 05:43:37

754A5F5F2F0 wrote:
What ever.. the weight of our battery is not of any importance!

That is opinion, not fact. If the weight of the machine matters to you (it does to me, my bike weighs just 294 pounds), then yes the weight of the battery obviously matters.

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Zepp on 02/22/21 at 11:08:52

13282532232F343229212C33400 wrote:

[quote author=754A5F5F2F0 link=1548812164/30#39 date=1613683535]

In any case, every battery has a best before time, but if one maintain/preserve it could last up to 5 years, or more!

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by Zepp on 02/22/21 at 11:21:21

070D09030801050C525450600 wrote:

[quote author=754A5F5F2F0 link=1548812164/30#39 date=1613683535]What ever.. the weight of our battery is not of any importance!

That is opinion, not fact. If the weight of the machine matters to you (it does to me, my bike weighs just 294 pounds), then yes the weight of the battery obviously matters. [/quote]

Of course its my opinion!
Let us study the specefikations;

Dry weight 160 kg / 352 lbs
Curb (wet) weight 173 kg / 381 lbs

https://bikeswiki.com/Suzuki_LS650_Savage_(Boulevard_S40)#Specifications
It says me that this bike alredy is a low weight bike.
Lose some few pounds dont matter.

Its more about to try out the Lithium patway?

Title: Re: Lithium Battery Options
Post by ckahleer on 02/22/21 at 21:59:53

I always wondered what is included in wet weight over dry weight.
2.8 Gallons of gas 17lbs. 2 quarts oil 4lbs. That leaves 8lbs unaccounted for. Battery?