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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> HD Livewire = $30k /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1546906309 Message started by Gary_in_NJ on 01/07/19 at 16:11:49 |
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Title: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/07/19 at 16:11:49 When I first learned of the Livewire a few years back I was excited for Harley. It was a bold move for a company that was always slow to move. Then in recent months with all of the talk of how HD's traditional customer base has stopped buying motorcycles there was much hope that HD's electric future might even save the company. Harley has a lot riding on that Livewire. I don't think that's gonna happen. The Livewire looks like a fine motorcycle, but at $30,000...Harley Davidson's days are numbered. They put a lot of R&D into a product of which they will move few. Low production motorcycles will not sustain HD's infrastructure, or future R&D. HD really needed a home-run hit with the Livewire, but they just hit a bunt right to the pitcher and I don't think that they're gonna make first. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/07/19 at 20:52:44 I wonder how many millions of dollars worth of Harleys are parked in garages around the world with literally Hundreds of dollars worth of use on them. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/08/19 at 03:35:53 Kentucky is threatening to raise the fuel tax $0.10 a gallon....and that got me wondering about an electric vehicle - my trip to work is only 9 miles each way. If I had an electric vehicle.......I pay "ZERO" taxes for riding on the highways and contribute nothing toward road repair. At a going rate of $16,000 - $30,000 for an electric motorcycle.......it appears I am just going to have to pay the tax increase like everyone else. Electric motorcycles are a long way from being a cost effective mode of transportation.....unless you live in an area that supplements the cost with tax breaks, free parking and charging - and allows other folks to supplement the cost of your electric vehicle. If you are looking for cost effective transportation......seems to me a $3,000 used bike and $13,000 - $27,000 worth of gas money will get you farther than a new electric motorcycle! (The shameful thing about the road tax increase in Kentucky - is them taking money out of the road taxes and diverting it to the General Fund.....to pay for shortcomings in other places in their budget like the underfunded retirement accounts and refugee programs). From work I can drive 4 miles over into Ohio.....and buy my gas cheaper - so that will likely be my plan for avoiding the tax increase. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by GOF on 01/08/19 at 06:02:25 NY has tossed around a per mile tax for years. So far they haven't done it. But I'm sure it will eventually come to pass. Our elected officials never met a tax they didn't like. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/08/19 at 12:01:59 Yeah, $30k??? That's probably why they pulled out of their partnership with what looks like the now-defunct Alta Motors. They have/had supermoto and dual-sport bikes for $13k and were looking to add some cool street bikes to the lineup. Probably for under $15k. http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/alta-motors-redshift-st-street-tracker-3.jpg http://https://i.blogs.es/fdd1f9/alta-motors-the-crapshot-1/1366_2000.jpg |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/08/19 at 12:08:02 Dave, this could be you on the way to the office! http://https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57a3ad7ae3df28c404a7d817/t/5b43bdd0f950b79e4c459f7a/1531166198939/The+Wistle+2018.jpg?format=1500w |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/08/19 at 12:37:41 That slide appears to be low enough.........that it is technically a "crash". :-? Just because you may be able to pick it up before is stops sliding....doesn't mean your are still "riding" the thing. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by GOF on 01/08/19 at 16:33:14 I don't think that bar end is quite touching the pavement. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Ruttly on 01/08/19 at 21:35:02 774C4156474B50564D454857240 wrote:
Remaining in control and able to ride away is not a crash. However it may classify as a close call , luck , God looking after you , or Skill. I would much prefer luck than skill ! |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/09/19 at 07:21:44 042322223A2F560 wrote:
I am not sure that fellow pulled that bike back up from that slide.....I suppose it is possible. What is that thing on the road under his boot. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/09/19 at 07:27:29 It's a boot slider, much like a knee puck, it's purpose is to protect the sole of the boot. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/09/19 at 07:54:25 474D49434841454C121410200 wrote:
That doesn't look anything like the steel shoes I am used to seeing in flat track. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Ruttly on 01/09/19 at 10:19:09 Yeah that's no steel "hot shoe" , if you look close it looks like it may be plastic(no sparks) but I see a tiny red hot ember at the end of the handlebar. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/09/19 at 10:57:53 Flat trackin happens on dirt. That crazy SOB is on pavement so in order to NOT make a spark show, it's a polymer. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by mpescatori on 01/10/19 at 02:13:48 060E07410 wrote:
If you look carefully, there's a tiny spark at the very end of the bar end. Methinks the guy is literally losing it. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/10/19 at 09:30:53 566D6077666A71776C646976050 wrote:
Do your stretching beforehand Dave http://https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57a3ad7ae3df28c404a7d817/5b3fdc75f950b709fea42cdd/5b3fdd7e8a922d574a402133/1530912131568/One_Show_2018-1218.jpg?format=2500w |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/10/19 at 09:32:45 Then do this all day long... More pictures here: https://www.altamotors.co/the-wistle-2018 http://https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57a3ad7ae3df28c404a7d817/5b3fdc75f950b709fea42cdd/5b3fdd4303ce6429506f649f/1530912071947/One_Show_2018-0635.jpg?format=2500w |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/10/19 at 09:33:56 So $30k for a Livewire or $13k for a street-legal version of the Alta Redsihit?? Like I said, no wonder why HD pulled out of their partnership. They wanted Alta to fail. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbXqanleR3E[/media] |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/10/19 at 11:03:23 OK....I will admit that is was not a crash - it was some serious showing off. I am not tempted to buy a $30,000 or even a $15,000 electric motorcycle. (Temporary Thread hijack).......This however - is extremely tempting to me. I don't know that it is as tempting when they add "applicable fees".....there could possibly be a lot of them (shipping, dealer prep, destination fee, etc.). I know this is a very capable machine for a single rider and luggage. I wish it had a belt instead of a chain........it is a brand new 2016 Honda CB500F. https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-honda-cb500f-new-2016/6781094869.html Either cut and paste the above link....or use this one and open the 2016 CB500F for $ 4,609. https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/search/mca?query=cb500f |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/10/19 at 11:51:24 That's a nice bike Dave. And at $4,609 a good deal (msrp in 2016 was $5999). The 2016 model incorporated some design improvements and the reviews are favorable. You can't go wrong with a Honda. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Dave on 01/10/19 at 15:21:00 The only reason I hesitate to buy a CB500F....is the passenger seat looks like my wife could not ride on it for more than a block (I am not sure she could even get on it for a photo shoot). Most times I would be riding this kind of a bike single....it might be nice if the bike at least had a chance of being ridden double in a pinch. I am off work tomorrow and I might go look at it, and also see what kind of bags/luggage they make for the bike. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by ohiomoto on 01/18/19 at 06:19:04 It gets worse for Livewire... https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lightning-electric-motorcycle-strike/ |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by batman on 01/21/19 at 11:44:46 It would seem that all these bike's tell you the " up to xxx miles" that may be great for Flatlanders , I'd like to know the "down to" mileage is, living in the hills. I doubt it would be 2/3 of what they list. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by SoC on 01/21/19 at 18:55:33 I guess Harley deided to follow the Tesla model. Build for the fortunate few and allow other manufacturers to actually bring a vehicle to market folks could afford to purchase. It is in line with what they charge for traditional rides, so there's the price point in their mind. You sell to your customer base, that's marketing 101. As an auto analogy, you don't see Porsche or BMW bringing out an inexpensive ground breaking new electric model. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/22/19 at 07:22:01 28292C3E3D3E312C34365F0 wrote:
Yes, you sell to your base. The problem that HD has is this - their base has stopped buying motorcycles because they are too old to ride. They have lost their base and need to bring in new customers. Their brand isn't valued by younger riders. They need market competitive models. The few base customers they do have like their bikes because they aren't like other brands...and they certainly don't like electric transportation. That my friend is Reality 101. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by T And T Garage on 01/22/19 at 09:04:58 303A3E343F36323B656367570 wrote:
Yes, you sell to your base. The problem that HD has is this - their base has stopped buying motorcycles because they are too old to ride. They have lost their base and need to bring in new customers. Their brand isn't valued by younger riders. They need market competitive models. The few base customers they do have like their bikes because they aren't like other brands...and they certainly don't like electric transportation. That my friend is Reality 101.[/quote] Was at a HD dealer this weekend (large Chicagoland dealer) and I can concur with you Gary. Although they do have a few new "entry level" models, the culture that they've worked so hard on for so many years, just isn't appealing to the newbies. IMHO And you're also right about the Livewire. I don't see the appeal to its base or the newbie. (I'd still like to take it for a ride though!) ;) |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by Ruttly on 01/22/19 at 12:15:30 6F65616B60696D643A3C38080 wrote:
Yes, you sell to your base. The problem that HD has is this - their base has stopped buying motorcycles because they are too old to ride. They have lost their base and need to bring in new customers. Their brand isn't valued by younger riders. They need market competitive models. The few base customers they do have like their bikes because they aren't like other brands...and they certainly don't like electric transportation. That my friend is Reality 101.[/quote] Bullseye |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by SoC on 01/22/19 at 20:40:23 Gary, that was my point exactly, at this point Harley Davidson is basically a marketing company that happens to make motorcycles. Like many marketers, you look at who buys and how you extract money from them, not who you might get to buy. My point was that, who is bringing less expensive electric cars to market, Toyota and Nissan, not the big luxuary builders. Same is true for Harley, they have a price point they want folks to buy in at, they are not willing to dilute the "Value" by having cheaper product. It seems stupid, but believe it or not that's the simple view of the way they teach it to you in business school. Harley is now run by a bunch of MBA's and Wall Street wanna be's, it's about the stock price and financial numbers and little else. Companies like Harley make almost as much money managing their stock as they do building motorcycles. It's related in a weird sort of way but I am involved in the skiing industry and I once was in a discussion with corporate ski management types, who were arguing for eliminating discounted season passes at the ski area because it diluted "the value" of selling lift tickets. They actually believed that the folks they sold season passes to would ski as many days a year as they did (on their pass) if they forced them to purchase a full fair lift ticket everyday. My point being that as management loses sight of what it is they do, in the case of Harley that would be build motorcycles, and begins to put more emphasis on places that are concerned with other aspects of the business in total, marketing and finance can get too much influence. I can remember what in effect was an attempt by them at building dirt bikes when I was a kid in the 70's. And they were pretty lame. A big problem today is the dealer network they have, most exclusively Harley. You walk in there and it's way intimidating. I went to try and buy a couple muffler clamps at my local dealer. Went to the parts counter and described the clamp and gave the guy the size. He said what bike was it for, I told him an LS650, he asked what that was and after I responded it was a Suzuki he said they don't have any parts for Japanese motorcycles. When I said it 's the clamp for a Dyna muffler, mysteriously they had none in stock. So then I make my way to the used motorcycle manager and I sit down with him and ask about the inventory and if they might have a Savage (they are often traded in at Harley dealers) in stock. He say's he's never seen one. I give him my card and tell him if one every shows up to call me and I would probably buy it on the spot if it's decent. He takes my card and drops it in his garbage can under the desk. Maybe Harley's bigger problem is they can't sell bikes because of an intrenched dealer network that is so isolated they don't have a clue. I don't know why it is but I went to get some parts at my local Suzuki dealer last week (which is also a Honda, Kawa and Yamaha dealer) and the showroom had more Harley's then anything. They were all used. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by batman on 01/22/19 at 23:54:32 You need to play the game at the HD parts counter, you should have said a Sportster, not Suzuki Savage. If you check around ,you should be able to find smaller shops that sell parts and service HD's that aren't dealers ,they're a lot more friendly. I've bought seats, drag bars , LED turn signals and a tail light out of three such places and they knew I was buying for my Savage, with no problems ,they where helpful and seemed happy for my business .These are the kind of places bargains can be found , a 4 day old (owner returned it-bought a different one) Mustang seat (cherry) for $200 ,(half price) ,3 Dyna mufflers -$20 total , 1938 HD "bee hive" tail light(real)-$10 , and a 31 "set of drag bars (new)- $21, not the kind of prices you'll find at the HD dealers. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by SoC on 01/24/19 at 08:23:58 In follow-up, I was on my usual Wednesday ski trip yesterday and and during a discussion, the guy sitting across from me on the bus mentions how his wife complains he takes too much time off to ride his motorcycle. The conversation turns to what bike do you have and such and he has Street Gilde. Talks about riding Harleys his entire adult life. He mentions he plans to trade it in, in fall for a new model. Throws out about not be thrilled about the 30k plus price but has no problem with that. Immediately asks if I have seen the new Electric model and goes on to bemoan Harley and asks what they are thinking with asking 30K plus for one of those. I guess Harley never did any of the basic market research of asking their customers for thoughts about the whole thing and if they had a "need" for such a bike, and if so at that price point. After spending some time talking to the guy it was pretty obvious he had little use for an electric and zero desire to own one. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by batman on 01/24/19 at 14:05:53 Why but one ? you can pick a low mileage used Harley all day long for 10 grand and have 20 grand left over for gas. It doesn't make much sense to go electric. At $3.50 a gallon 20 grand will buy you 5714 gallons of gas ,at 35mpg you'd be able to ride it nearly 200,000 miles.(without watching your electric meter spinning off the wall, when converting AC to DC there's a 29.3% loss ) and it allows you to ride anywhere, anytime and any distance. |
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Title: Re: HD Livewire = $30k Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/19 at 15:49:40 Twelve thousand dollars for gas. Eight for oil, and replacement bolts.. |
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