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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> I can't find my shocked face /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1546780757 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/19 at 05:19:17 |
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Title: I can't find my shocked face Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/19 at 05:19:17 https://www.theepochtimes.com/sheriff-border-fence-helped-cut-crime-in-yuma-by-91-percent_2749236.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/sheriff-border-fence-helped-cut-crime-in-yuma-by-91-percent_2749236.html |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MnSpring on 01/06/19 at 06:12:04 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
Is this part of why you need a, 'Shocked' face ? "...However, during the Obama administration, Operation Streamline was curtailed and the 100 percent prosecution policy was halted. “When they did away with that, they [started] coming again, and the numbers that are coming through Yuma are way back up..." I just cut a little piece, so those that are to LAZY to, 'Look it up' for themselves, can just read it. (Or, have it read to them) |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/06/19 at 06:14:47 Long time Trump supporter and Mayor of Laredo states physical wall is not needed where he is, but maybe in other places. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/04/682157001/we-dont-need-a-physical-wall-loredo-mayor-pete-saenz-says |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/06/19 at 06:16:51 "I just cut a little piece, so those that are to LAZY to, 'Look it up' for themselves, can just read it. (Or, have it read to them)" Looks like a lot of people are going to have things read to them: https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/04/more-than-100-million-alexa-devices-have-been-sold/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/19/google-home-mini-was-the-best-selling-smart-speaker-in-q2/ You guys remind me of how Rock and Roll was the "Devil's Music", then TV was going to destroy society, then it was the internet... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/19 at 13:25:33 You guys remind me of how Rock and Roll was the "Devil's Music", then TV was going to destroy society, then it was the internet... Your very own self protection. Pretend the people who are showing you what reason and good sense would do are somehow mentally faulty, while ignoring the historical FACT that walls are and have been for centuries a reasonable part of any system of control over who gains access. By pretending we're the intellectual equivalent of ridiculous groups you insulate yourself from needing to give our ideas any actual consideration. If you're waiting for a Government Study on the value of walls and fences LOOK AT EVERY MILITARY INSTALLATION AROUND THE MUTHERFUKKING WORLD. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/06/19 at 13:52:02 "You guys remind me of how Rock and Roll was the "Devil's Music", then TV was going to destroy society, then it was the internet... Your very own self protection. I was referring to the continued comments about how I listen to these posts instead of reading them. That's why I linked the millions of sales of smart speakers that millions of people are using. Modern tech will change how we use the internet, people have things read to them all the time now. "LOOK AT EVERY MILITARY INSTALLATION AROUND THE MUTHERFUKKING WORLD." Interesting you bring that up as many US military locations are actually not repairing old fences because modern sensor tech does such a better job. Surveillance towers being scrapped because sensor tech never falls asleep, never needs relieved from duty, never eats or drinks, or abandons it's post. You really have no idea what the military is doing today for structured access control features. When is the last time you ran a penetration exercise, or a vulnerability report for one? I did 3 last year, but obviously when it comes to walls people doing the job are wrong. There are Government studies, I have referenced them here more than once and large-scale physical walls are not recommended for mountainous areas, never have been. They are definitely not recommended for certain areas of the border, again according to people there that do that as their job. But again they must be wrong because people sitting in the safety of their homes can get online and do the job better. Your link about Yuma is correct, but everyone in Laredo in my link are wrong. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MnSpring on 01/06/19 at 15:52:34 537371796473160 wrote:
Eegore, when you say: “… according to people there that do that as their job….” It is, according to you, the only correct statement to make ? And when the POTUS, and other people say, People that, are there, and do, that, as their job. It is, according to you, NOT correct ? And anyone that makes a statement that supports a wall, is a ‘Desk Jockey’ Only ? Why is that ? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MnSpring on 01/06/19 at 16:35:21 4565676F7265000 wrote:
Did you forget to say, what the complete statement said ? "...we don't need a physical wall. We have a natural barrier..." |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by batman on 01/06/19 at 17:30:23 General George S. Patton ,as early as WWII is quoted as saying "fixed installations are monuments to man's stupidity" , and it is no less true today. I fully agree the wall will stop illegals from entering from Mexico! But the criminal Cartels in Mexico will simply provide forged papers to those in need ,for a price . the people then need only two buy a one way ticket to any city in Canada and invade from our northern boarder. If the cost to the illegals about $300 for a ticket & $1000 for papers is less than the $1500 normally charged by a coyote to smuggle them across the boarder than we can expect an increase in illegals entering the country and further growth in strength of the Cartels. So as you can see ,what may help on the southern boarder, may in fact come back to bite us. while Trump sits in the White House stuffing his face, the rest of the government(and their families) are wondering where their next meal is coming from , and if you think he really cares about the common man you are deluded !He's like a little child pouting until he gets his way , regardless of anyone but himself. The wall a monument only to TRUMP's ego. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by batman on 01/06/19 at 17:49:30 Those guys at the press conference , haven't seen a watch in years, and building the WALL will increase their importance and job security ,Why wouldn't they be Trump 's boot licks?WOW three people who want the wall besides Trump ,and they all work on the boarder .What a surprise!!!! |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/06/19 at 19:45:05 "It is, according to you, the only correct statement to make ?" No. "Did you forget to say, what the complete statement said ? "...we don't need a physical wall. We have a natural barrier..." " No. I linked the article in an attempt to provide a complete statement. My intention is to say that officials in Laredo do not think they need a physical wall in their geographical location. A physical man made wall specifically. "And when the POTUS, and other people say, People that, are there, and do, that, as their job. It is, according to you, NOT correct ?" I don't know what you are asking. "And anyone that makes a statement that supports a wall, is a ‘Desk Jockey’ Only ?" No. To clarify: Many people of various professions that agree with the proposal that only a large physical barrier constructed along the entirety of the border will create a reduction in illegal border crossings are no matter what their profession may be, incorrect and typically, typically meaning in most but not all cases, choosing a strategy that most, most meaning the majority but not every, Border Control employees, engineers, DHS staff and military personnel with a specialty in access control indicate is not fiscally responsible, efficient or most effective. Many of these conclusions coming from data and alternate strategies effectively utilized by the US Navy in the region. Many, not all of the people I actively discuss this with have zero idea of what goes on at the border, have never worked in security or access control. Many in this case represents the majority but not all of the people I actively have border control discussions with. I support a wall, I do not support a large physical full length barrier based off the immense cost of doing that when there's cheaper and better methods that can be used in very specific geographical locations. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by batman on 01/06/19 at 22:46:16 THEY ARRESTED 1700 BAD GUY'S! YOU BETTER LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT CROSS THE BORDER ,500,000 PER DAY . AND YES ANYONE WITH THAT MANY YEARS OF SERVICE THAT'S A VP OR PREZ OF BORDER GUARDS ,ISN'T " POUNDING THE BEAT" THEIR A DESK JOCKEY. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/19 at 10:12:21 No. To clarify: Many people of various professions that agree with the proposal that only a large physical barrier constructed along the entirety of the border will create a reduction in illegal border crossings are no matter what their profession may be, incorrect and typically, typically meaning in most but not all cases, choosing a strategy that most, most meaning the majority but not every, Border Control employees, engineers, DHS staff and military personnel with a specialty in access control indicate is not fiscally responsible, efficient or most effective. Many of these conclusions coming from data and alternate strategies effectively utilized by the US Navy in the region. Many, not all of the people I actively discuss this with have zero idea of what goes on at the border, have never worked in security or access control. Many in this case represents the majority but not all of the people I actively have border control discussions with. I support a wall, I do not support a large physical full length barrier based off the immense cost of doing that when there's cheaper and better methods that can be used in very specific geographical locations. Here's the big issue Eegore. It's about power. When Leftist Democrats say they are in favor of border security, I don't believe them. Look at California. It's flipped from a Red state to a Blue state. Hilary got over 4 million more votes than Trump in California alone. Almost 40% of California's population is Hispanic as of 2010 and if you've been there lately, I'm guessing closer to 50 now. Now consider Texas is also at 40%. Texans are a different animal than Californians which is why it hasn't flipped Blue just yet. The Democrats control the vast majority of the MSM and 99.999% of the entertainment culture meaning they are able to sway voters to the Democrats side. Electronic border security relies on people to perform the task what the current administration tells them to. Democrats, knowing full well they control the media and the message, have zero incentive to protect the border. None. A wall that at least slows down the flow is the only thing protecting the historical United States of America from turning into another Central American $hithole. That's why people like me want a wall. If we thought the government would follow through with enforcing the border, sure, use electronic equipment and more people, but with a Democrat in office, that won't happen. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/07/19 at 10:49:02 Electronic border security relies on people to perform the task what the current administration tells them to. How does this differentiate from people being posted along a physical wall? A large physical wall can be circumvented in minutes without personnel actively maintaining the environment. Examples of walls that slow down flow are very, very small in comparison, and actively manned. Again my argument is irrelevant to our conversation because you indicate cost is not part of the equation, and I use cost as part of the equation on deciding where a wall is pertinent and where it isn't. So there's not much for us to discuss, you believe a wall will stop people where I do not, primarily based off of my work and who I associate with. I just sat through a briefing about those lift-trucks used in airports to place food into the larger aircraft. A number of those have been purchased and customized in Mexico and TX, there is strong evidence showing they are being tested as mobile high-lift devices that can connect to one another over a raised barrier. You believe any amount of money should be spent, and I do not so we will just have to disagree on that. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/19 at 11:00:51 I can break into ypur house or car if I really want to, but you still employ basic security measures. Can people get around a wall? Sure. Don't you think it's easier to catch a couple of trucks lined up than 100 miles of an open desert at night? Money is not a factor. How much does illegal immigration cost the states/nation? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/07/19 at 11:36:10 "Don't you think it's easier to catch a couple of trucks lined up than 100 miles of an open desert at night?" Yes, I also think its easier to use geo-sensor and drones to see them before they ever get close, in specific geographical locations. "Money is not a factor. How much does illegal immigration cost the states/nation?" A lot. My concern is spending 3 times the average cost in areas where the result will not be beneficial. Specific geographical locations already are natural barriers, but for some reason we need to employ very costly measures to place concrete or other physical barriers where much more advanced features would do a better job. But again, cost is no issue so my argument is not valid to our discussion as I want to save money by only building where its most effective. "I can break into ypur house or car if I really want to, but you still employ basic security measures." I've already addressed this. I do not add more fencing because its cheaper and more effective to install motion activated cameras that shoot footage straight to my phone than it is to install more fencing on my property. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/19 at 12:26:47 advanced features would do a better job With the stroke of a pen, those advanced features can be turned off. As I said elsewhere, a new local prosecutor unilaterally decreed prosecution for possession up to 100 grams of weed will no longer be pursued. For all practical purposes, weed is legal in St Louis County based on one man's decision. In the same manner, a new administration/congress simply ceases attention to border security. We need something different. What we're doing is not working. I guess we'll move on from this topic as we clearly see things night and day apart. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/07/19 at 12:32:27 "With the stroke of a pen, those advanced features can be turned off" So what is the difference between personnel using an advanced feature and personnel monitoring the wall? Your examples of a useable wall include personnel, like catching trucks passing goods over a wall. A new administration cant shut a wall off, but they can let ladders and tunnels circumvent it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/07/19 at 12:33:05 immigration is an overall gain to our economy, illegal or not. open the fuc king borders already, give them all Tax ID Numbers and be done with it already |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/19 at 14:29:06 immigration is an overall gain to our economy, illegal or not. How do you figure that? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/07/19 at 14:31:02 Your examples of a useable wall include personnel, like catching trucks passing goods over a wall. A new administration cant shut a wall off, but they can let ladders and tunnels circumvent it. Because its something. Like your door locks, it slows down the casual thief. We've got to do something different. At least we can agree on that, right? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/07/19 at 14:39:05 "We've got to do something different. At least we can agree on that, right?" Yes we do agree on that for sure. We just disagree on value per dollar. And for what its worth, we disagree without being childish about it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/07/19 at 14:42:30 "immigration is an overall gain to our economy, illegal or not. " I'm not sure on this but I think it may be connected to agriculture to a degree. For instance very few American citizens will do agriculture labor for the same price they will do fast-food or even construction. Also available volume of labor pool comes into effect, and without migratory worker loads a number of agriculture producers would seize to be competitive. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by verslagen1 on 01/07/19 at 14:56:41 0B2834330635332E3433470 wrote:
Yes, make it easier for them to come in with work visa's. put up a wall to prevent smuggling, and other criminals from coming in. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/07/19 at 15:57:13 4F7D7A6B6C7D6A55796A73180 wrote:
I listen https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-23/study-examines-immigrations-economic-costs https://www.thebalance.com/how-immigration-impacts-the-economy-4125413 https://www.allsides.com/news/2018-07-20-1313/illegal-immigration-economic-burden-america https://cis.org/Testimony/Fiscal-and-Economic-Impact-Immigration-United-States so, some of those are split decisions where, yes there are positives and negatives to the economy from immigration, but they aren't any more of a criminal threat than the native population, yes there's lots of examples of this one here, and that one there, but have you read the daily crime report in your local paper from your neighbors??? guess what.... quit believing the fear, no the world's not all puppies and marshmellows, but you can't live in fear. and hey, here's a thing, if you make it easy and legal to come here to work legally, then only the criminals will be sneaking across the border so it's much easier to catch and deport those automatically. heck, if it gets crazy insane, then maybe even build a wall after you make it legal, that way you can actually control the borders without punishing those just crossing for work. but THERE IS NO INVASION!!!!!!!!!!!!! get over it |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/07/19 at 16:00:30 506265747362754A66756C070 wrote:
how are the families and children being detained and dying a threat? get over it. immigration is down, the best way to keep it down is to get the economies of where they are coming from UP. the criminal demand is HERE, those criminals wouldn't come here if we weren't buying. that's what's instigating the crime you're so afraid of, US! |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/08/19 at 11:30:12 Lost, if you leave you car door open and someone steals something from inside, do you blame yourself? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/08/19 at 13:32:12 Oh, this little "Oval office chat" with the idiot in chief tonight is gonna be fun! Mike Pence Struggles To Defend Trump’s Lie That Past Presidents Support His Border Wall All four living former presidents have denied that they ever spoke to Trump about the wall or have made it clear they do not support it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-trump-border-wall-lie_us_5c34972de4b05d4e96bc6926 |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/08/19 at 15:17:00 7A484F5E59485F604C5F462D0 wrote:
why? what does that have to do with anything? are you equating ALL undocumented immigrants to criminals? when your kid does something stupid do you blame yourself? oh, and technically, you can only blame the thief, cause there's nothing wrong with not locking your doors, locking and not locking your doors isn't a moral behavior to be judged. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by eau de sauvage on 01/08/19 at 17:38:12 053730212637201F332039520 wrote:
If we did a proper case study of say a random group of 1000 from the 800000 DACA's, and projected their lifetime relevant actuarial data to see what the 'cost' to the US would be I'm certain you'd find a significant net gain that would continue to increase logarithmically down the generations. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/08/19 at 19:33:37 If we did a proper case study of say a random group of 1000 from the 800000 DACA's, and projected their lifetime relevant actuarial data to see what the 'cost' to the US would be I'm certain you'd find a significant net gain that would continue to increase logarithmically down the generations. That may be if we only used DACA information and didn't include law enforcement for all the other immigrants utilizing US resources, whether they be legal, working or non-working. There's a tremendous amount of cost involved in maintaining the healthcare for immigrants alone. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by eau de sauvage on 01/09/19 at 01:55:29 @Eegore, yeah I was going to say that would include all the lifetime costs/benefits including law enforcement, garbage collection etc. There'll always be a degree of illegal immigration and most of it is from overstaying of visa anyway. But the point is that to refer to illegals as ultimately 'costing' anything is an economically unfeasible proposition. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/09/19 at 16:10:43 "But the point is that to refer to illegals as ultimately 'costing' anything is an economically unfeasible proposition." Why is that? US Citizens cost money, why would illegal immigrants be excluded from infrastructure, healthcare, law enforcement, public safety and general public funds cost evaluations? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/10/19 at 05:51:34 45574340575153360 wrote:
How obtuse do you have to be to believe illegal (and in fact most of legal immigrants) from Central America, don't cost? Of course they do. The fact they are scrambling to get away from their $hitholes 'might' lead you to believe they have more propensity for assimilating and contributing to the success of the nation, but that's not a given. The education systems suck and they are rampant with crime and corruption, which unfortunately, we see them bring into our country. Illegal immigration is cost a fortune, setting aside the impact in crime stats, prison cost, police cost etc... Summary from the census bureau below. • In 2014, 63 percent of households headed by a non-citizen reported that they used at least one welfare program, compared to 35 percent of native-headed households. • Welfare use drops to 58 percent for non-citizen households and 30 percent for native households if cash payments from the Earned Income Tax Credit are not counted as welfare. EITC recipients pay no federal income tax. Like other welfare, the EITC is a means-tested, anti-poverty program, but unlike other programs one has to work to receive it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/19 at 08:41:09 Visa overstay, that IS a joke. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 12:48:07 0121232B3621440 wrote:
what makes you think they aren't already included? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 12:48:28 0B141215080F3E0E3E06141853610 wrote:
yeah, we all know how you feel about facts |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 13:07:56 734146575041566945564F240 wrote:
How obtuse do you have to be to believe illegal (and in fact most of legal immigrants) from Central America, don't cost? Of course they do. The fact they are scrambling to get away from their $hitholes 'might' lead you to believe they have more propensity for assimilating and contributing to the success of the nation, but that's not a given. The education systems suck and they are rampant with crime and corruption, which unfortunately, we see them bring into our country. Illegal immigration is cost a fortune, setting aside the impact in crime stats, prison cost, police cost etc... Summary from the census bureau below. • In 2014, 63 percent of households headed by a non-citizen reported that they used at least one welfare program, compared to 35 percent of native-headed households. • Welfare use drops to 58 percent for non-citizen households and 30 percent for native households if cash payments from the Earned Income Tax Credit are not counted as welfare. EITC recipients pay no federal income tax. Like other welfare, the EITC is a means-tested, anti-poverty program, but unlike other programs one has to work to receive it. [/quote] oh, of course setting aside " the impact in crime stats, prison cost, police cost etc..." where NATIVE born are a higher cost than illegal or legal immigrants. but your whole argument isn't cost, it's FEAR, your side keeps bringing up example after example of the crimes committed by illegal immigrants.... oh, and site some references for fuc ks sake you savage. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/10/19 at 13:53:44 it's FEAR What does that even mean? What's fear? What do you fear? Why do you fear a wall? where NATIVE born are a higher cost than illegal or legal immigrants Prove that cause I don't believe it. Are you telling me I 'cost' more to the American taxpayer than an illegal alien or a typical legal immigrant, maybe a DACA kid for example. Explain that. oh, and site some references for fuc ks sake you savage. Why? If you disagree with it you'll just claim the site is a ring wing propaganda machine and ignore it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 15:03:31 read it and learn: https://inclusiv.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Economic-and-Fiscal-Consequences-of-Immigration.pdf listen and learn: https://www.gimletmedia.com/science-vs/immigration#episode-player |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 15:06:07 586A6D7C7B6A7D426E7D640F0 wrote:
is it? you know it is don't you? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/10/19 at 15:34:52 hey, you know what, Web, you're right, immigrants do cost us.... but mainly only if you emphasize the cost of education, on a national level they are more or less a wash, but since education is a local expense that tips them over for their kids. but then those kids usually end up better off and paying it back. so it's kind of a wash overall. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/10/19 at 16:08:17 "but mainly only if you emphasize the cost of education" I disagree. Medical care is considerably more expensive than education. A single ED visit can run into the tens of thousands, inpatient hospital stays even more, and pregnancy care even more, all of which are guaranteed services no matter your citizenship. Less than six percent of immigrant medical care is repaid by taxable immigrant work, and the level of repayment by illegal immigrants is so low it's not even measurable by standard means. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by thumperclone on 01/11/19 at 04:49:10 6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:
yea real funny 302,000 in 2017 alone |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/11/19 at 05:42:17 You put up "your facts" and I'll put up "my facts". The reality is, as every good sales guy knows, we all make emotional decisions and justify them afterwards with selected "facts". And that is a fact. Below are more of my facts which the lefties on here will ignore and no doubt attack the source. Let's be honest about our motives. I support a wall because I'm fearful of the US turning more and more into a slightly more economically prosperous Mexico. There are plenty of places in this country where you can't tell if you're in the US or Mexico. I think the USA and the world will suffer because of that. The lefties on here are afraid a successful wall will entrench Trump thru 2024 and whomever after him (Nikki Haley) for the next 4 years. So lets be honest and stop pretending facts are what's driving us because none of us live on the border. Why are you so adamantly against a wall? And don't tell me its money or because you believe drones will do a better job. More facts. Illegal Immigration: Democrats and the mainstream press accuse President Donald Trump of manufacturing a crisis at the border. The numbers tell another story. As soon as the words "growing humanitarian and security crisis at our Southern border" left Trump's lips in his Oval Office address this week, Democrats and media "fact-checkers" were trying to dispel it as a deliberate lie. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Trump "must stop manufacturing a crisis, and must reopen the government." Border Crossings Climbing NPR's "fact check" — like countless others — dismissed Trump's claim as false because "illegal border crossings in the most recent fiscal year (ending in September 2018) were actually lower than in either 2016 or 2014." What they aren't telling you is border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. Or that that number is way up from the same two months the year before. Nor do they mention that last year, the border patrol apprehended more than half a million people trying to get into the country illegally. And that number, too, is up from the year before. Downplaying Number Of Illegals Trump's critics certainly don't bother to mention that those figures only count illegals the border patrol caught. It does not count the ones who eluded border patrol agents and got into the country. The Department of Homeland Security claims that about 20% of illegal border crossers make it into the country. Other studies, however, say border agents fail to apprehend as much as 50% of illegal crossers. Even at the lower percentage, that means that 104,000 illegals made it into the country in 2018 alone. Is that not a crisis at the border? Massive Illegal Population Pelosi and company also don't bother to mention the fact that there are already between 12 million and 22 million illegals — depending on which study you use — in the country today. Let's put that number in perspective. At the high end, it means that the illegal population in the U.S. is larger than the entire population of countries like Syria, Chile, the Netherlands and Ecuador. Even if the number is just 12 million, that's still more than the entire population of Sweden, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland and New Zealand. It is, in short, a massive number. Here's more perspective. The U.S. is virtually alone in the world in having such a large share of its population in the country illegally. An analysis by the nonpartisan ProCon.org found that in 2010 almost 4% of the U.S. population was in the country illegally. The average for 13 other countries it analyzed was just 1.3%. In France, for example, illegals make up just 0.9% of its population. It's 0.3% in Germany, 0.8% in Spain, and 0.5% in the Netherlands. Isn't having millions in the country illegally, with thousands joining them every day, not a crisis at the border? Illegals and Crime Critics also complain that Trump overstated the risk of illegal immigrants committing crimes. They all point to a report from the Cato Institute, a pro-immigration libertarian think tank. Cato did a statistical analysis of census data and concluded that incarceration rates for Hispanic illegals were slightly lower than those of the native-born. But the Center for Immigration Studies looked at federal crime statistics. It found that noncitizens accounted for more than 20% of federal convictions, even though they make up just 8.4% of the population. "It is almost certain that a majority of noncitizens convicted of federal crimes are illegal immigrants," said Steven Camarota of the CIS. Texas also has been monitoring crimes committed by illegals. It reports that from 2011 to 2018, it booked 186,000 illegal aliens. Police charged them with a total of 292,000 crimes. Those included 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults, and almost 3,000 weapons charges. Even if Cato is right that the crime rate among Hispanic illegals is a bit lower than for natives, that's cold comfort to victims of these crimes, which would not have happened had the border been more secure. They would likely agree with Trump about their being a crisis at the border. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/11/19 at 06:00:08 "So lets be honest and stop pretending facts are what's driving us because none of us live on the border. Why are you so adamantly against a wall? And don't tell me its money or because you believe drones will do a better job." Why are we not allowed in your assessment to state we believe that DHS can utilize modern, proven technology that is in use today, successfully, by other organizations such as the US Navy? How is it that other locations can be secured, and are actively secured by modern tech but this one circumstance requires a physical wall? Also why is cost not to be considered? Do you truly believe an infinite amount of money should be spent on a physical barrier? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/11/19 at 07:14:53 I'm a little surprise Eegore at your lack of perspective. Sneaking on a military base or your other example isn't comparable. If you snuck on a base, you have no place to 'disappear'. There's no infrastructure in place that gives you opportunities to hide in plain sight like an illegal alien hiding in San Diego. The footprint of a military base is tiny compared to the border and the number of available methods to respond to invaders is many times greater than that of the border patrol on the southern border. There is no comparison to any electronic methods currently being used and the border. Build a wall, use electronic techniques together. The wall forces methods to get across or under that take time and limit the numbers. Easier to spot and capture. Secondly, regarding money, no it's not an issue. The federal budget is 4.4 trillion dollars I think. Do the math what that works out to per day, per minute. 5 billion is a rounding error. No one really cared about the cost/benefit of the billions spent on Obamacare when everyone knew ahead of time it was going to fall woefully short of its goals. 5 billion, hell, 50 billion is meaningless. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/11/19 at 07:58:05 1C2E29383F2E39062A39204B0 wrote:
I love it when repubs talk about how "deficits don't matter"... except when democrats make the spend. So much hypocrisy. None of you has brought up how much the deficit has grown under trump. How about that? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 08:07:51 624240485542270 wrote:
dude, I'm just stating what I've read tells me. the education for immigrant children cost more. so you can disagree or not, but show me your sources, your opinion doesn't count |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 08:16:50 [quote author=053730212637201F332039520 link=1546780757/30#44 date=1547214137]You put up "your facts" and I'll put up "my facts". The reality is, as every good sales guy knows, we all make emotional decisions and justify them afterwards with selected "facts". And that is a fact. let's start and END here. so, what emotion is driving you to build the wall?? could it FEAR!!????? I bet it is. isn't it? the FACT that you can't admit that makes you a shallow worthless human being. the emotion that makes me NOT want a wall is called "empathy" yeah yeah I know you've never heard of that before so here's the definition: em·pa·thy /[ch712]emp[ch601]TH[ch275]/Submit noun the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. and these people feel that they can have a safer, better living here, and in the fairness of ALL MEN CREATED EQUAL, I say, let's give them that shot. make them all legal and give them tax ID numbers and then increase the security at the legal entry ports to search for drugs. it it LITERALLY anti-American to do anything else. the British, French, Dutch, Germans, Spanish, etc... didn't get legal permission from the Native Americans to come here, but we all dare ask it from these people, fleeing and seeking to come here for EXACT same reasons our ancestors came here??? spare me your BS, YOUR SCARED, you're buying the lies and the fear. You're worthless, get the behind me SATAN. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/11/19 at 08:34:08 the FACT that you can't admit that makes you a shallow worthless human being. That seems unnecessarily harsh... and these people feel that they can have a safer, better living here, and in the fairness of ALL MEN CREATED EQUAL, I say, let's give them that shot. Okay, give up your home. Have your children give up theirs. You've lived a good, long prosperous life in the US, let someone else have a chance. Turn over your property to an illegal. You're part of this system that stole everything from everyone else. Or, let's try it your way. Mexico has 120 million, Brazil about 200 with a couple hundred million spread out between them. The standard of living is pretty pathetic for many, not all, of those so give me a number you're comfortable with giving shot, making them legal, give them tax ID #'s. What's your number and why? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/11/19 at 09:43:42 "Sneaking on a military base or your other example isn't comparable. If you snuck on a base, you have no place to 'disappear'. " So you are saying that using methods that identify a person prior to entering a secure area isn't comparable access control? The successful programs aren't ones going around finding people, planes, boats that sneak into secure areas, they are stopping them before they even get close to the borderline in 3 dimensional space above, on, and below water. From a square footage to manpower perspective CBP has more manpower per square foot than any of the armed services. A wall built at near three times the cost in mountainous terrain where a response time of hours from CBP, is not going to provide substantial delay. Are you really unaware of how fast an unmanned wall can be breached by a group of humans? But since cost isn't an issue just spend the money even if the wall in that specific geographical location isn't delaying anything. "The wall forces methods to get across or under that take time and limit the numbers. Easier to spot and capture." Again this assessment does not correlate with people who do the job now. CBP, AZ National Guard, US Navy, ICE, DHS, are all wrong, people who do not do the job and never have can explain how a wall will work in every single geographical location along the border in one simple sentence. How could all those professionals be so blind about how easy a fix it is, and not realize that people who have never been in the environment are just better at solving the problem? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 09:56:48 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
as republicans say again and again and again, IT'S NOT A ZERO SUM GAME!! immigrants help grow the economy, they help us innovate, they, themselves innovate. are you afraid of a little competition? oh, and most people south of the border aren't immigrating here, aka NOT AN INVASION, they'll buy their own homes, spurring our economy. and if they have Tax number, they'll help pay for themselves! And heck, once they make some money here, they might go back home again to help their home country... but if you want to keep separating families and letting children die.... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/11/19 at 10:00:35 You plan pn flying drones over Mexican airspace and then deploying agents to meet the illegals where they cross? From a square footage to manpower perspective CBP has more manpower per square foot than any of the armed services. If that's true, why do we have a problem now? I saw a reporter yester walk back and forth across the border. No one around for miles. They showed dozens and dozens of campsite illegals use while crossing. Why weren't they stopped? But I'm outta here for a while. On my way to an airport.....which is surrounded by fencing and monitored by cameras. You'd have to cut the fence or tunnel under to get in. You'd get caught because the fence slowed you down. With no fence, dozens of you cross at various points.... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/11/19 at 10:04:58 "But I'm outta here for a while. On my way to an airport.....which is surrounded by fencing and monitored by cameras. You'd have to cut the fence or tunnel under to get in. You'd get caught because the fence slowed you down. With no fence, dozens of you cross at various points.... " The airport isn't built on mountains and rivers, it is a large flat open area, where fences belong. The border isn't a large flat area, again a fence belongs in specific geographical areas. "If that's true, why do we have a problem now? I saw a reporter yester walk back and forth across the border. No one around for miles. They showed dozens and dozens of campsite illegals use while crossing. Why weren't they stopped?" Because they don't have the appropriate tools, in the appropriate geographical locations to monitor and respond to those areas. If only 5billion could be spent on that. The small area where the reporter was could probably use a fence. Lets see her go into the mountains and find the same amount of immigrant traffic easily crossing. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/11/19 at 12:35:09 As you know I do not post and participate in this lunacy much anymore but I have to give my opinion here. For three DECADES both the Dems and the Rep have been talking about securing our Southern border. They actually passed a Bipartisan bill that said the wall MUST BE BUILT. Did they do it? NO. OBAMA, Hilary, Shumer, Pelosi and Trump have all called for the building of a barrier over the last DECADES. Do they hate brown people? NO Do they want to stop immigration? NO Are they racist and hateful? NO They all understand one thing. There has to be CONTROL. For Pete's sake we all have EMPATHY! We all understand that allowing workers into the country is good for the US. But we have LOST CONTROL. Why is Trump so adamant about this? Because HE understands that if we go back to DEBATING the issue it will be more DECADES until anything is done. Is the wall a fix? NO, not unto itself, but the first thing you do to control a situation at home is shut the door. I don't care what kind of wall they build, I don't care how they fix it, that is their job. But I do want them to fix it. NOT DEBATE IT. FIX IT. DO SOMETHING. EVEN IF IT FAILS AND WE HAVE TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE. DO SOMETHING BESIDES berate each other and DEBATE FOR ANOTHER 30 years. For those that want to discuss empathy have you ever thought that if they could not get here they would not come! They take the risk of dying, rape, children lost, all of the horrors you hear of not because we don't let them in but because they know we will. If you shut it down and they know that then they will not take that risk. This Forum is the perfect example of what is wrong with this country. Instead of pointing fingers, berating and telling everyone why you can't do anything. Why don't we focus on what WE CAN do and then DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING. If it doesn't work out we punt and try again. People are dying out there and all you guys care about is who's fault it is and finding absolution for yourselves. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/11/19 at 13:02:47 524C77766F737A661F0 wrote:
You must not have read any of Eegore's posts m. No one is saying we should do nothing. We all agree that something has to be done. But to think a $5 Billion wall is going to fix the problem is just plain stupid. That $5 Billion could do so much more than build a wall. It could provide more agents, more/updated surveillance, better training, etc. But the point that I think is being made more than any other is how trump lied and the general hypocrisy of this entire administration. C'mon - how can you not see this? The bulk of his campaign was based on building this wall and having Mexico pay (pretty much verbatim from his mouth). Now all of a sudden, he's changing his tune. If he's such a master negotiator, then why can't he get Mexico to pay? (that's kind of rhetorical) Further, why is this just now a crisis? He's had two years of republican majority to push this through. Obama got the ACA done - and that was 10 time tougher, but he did it. Where's the urgency we had right before the midterms? What happened to the "terrible caravan"? It's all bloated rhetoric and America is sick of it. Anyone in their right mind can see that there is no "National Emergency". This is simply an ego stroke to trump and let's face it, yet another distraction on what's really going on in the investigation against him. Rest assured, there is something we can do. This country doesn't need trump to secure our borders. We have all the resources we need at our disposal. We need the likes of trump to get out of the way in order to deploy them efficiently. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Serowbot on 01/11/19 at 13:10:41 48566D6C7569607C050 wrote:
Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups. Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?... Do you have any crisis that you wait 2 years to do anything about?. If you do,... is it really a crisis?... Trump's crisis is Russia... the wall is a rallying cry to hold on to the base as the facts of Trump's Russian collusion come to light. The wall is chum for a shark feeding frenzy. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by verslagen1 on 01/11/19 at 13:27:01 Are you so afraid of giving trump a victory that you'll hold the gub's in shutdown as hostage. We already know trump doesn't give a sh!t how long it's locked up. And BTW, even if trump veto's the bill, congress can over ride the veto if they get both houses to vote for it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/11/19 at 13:36:15 4254435E46535E45310 wrote:
Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups. Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?... Do you have any crisis that you wait 2 years to do anything about?. If you do,... is it really a crisis?... Trump's crisis is Russia... the wall is a rallying cry to hold on to the base as the facts of Trump's Russian collusion come to light. The wall is chum for a shark feeding frenzy. [/quote] *taps mic*.... Is this thing on? :D |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 13:36:16 I'm for open borders, all this crap has convinced me that's the only fair way. Why do you want to deny these people safety, a chance for economic improvement in their lives, etc... WHY? America takes the poorest of the poor and turns them into productive tax paying citizens in a generation, we've done that for 2 centuries, why stop that for the southern border? again, I'm fine with increasing technology and security at our legal crossing points, you know WHERE THE DRUGS are coming in, but, no, no wall, and especially NO BLANK CHECK, cause that's what this is, where are the plans? where are the details of this wall Trump wants? they don't exist, HE HAS NO PLAN. all he wants is to say no, no, no and throw a temper tantrum and be a big baby. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 13:51:40 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
honestly, if it'd get him to shut up and do NOTHING ELSE to our immigration laws, let's give him the $5 billion, most estimates say that's good for about 200 miles of "wall" . it's a 2,000 mile border, 650 miles already have some kind of man made barrier on it, another 200 miles isn't a bfd now I'd much much much rather use that money to increase our immigration courts and give people the due process they deserve as their INALIENBLE RIGHTS AS HUMANS, or funding for other immigration services |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/11/19 at 13:53:13 Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/11/19 at 13:55:48 061823223B272E324B0 wrote:
*taps mic harder*... hello? Is this thing on? No blame m - just real world. trump is a liar and the country is sick of it. Take the $5 Billion and do something worthwhile with it. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/11/19 at 14:33:43 "Why don't we focus on what WE CAN do and then DO SOMETHING." "Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS." Looking back through your post I can't find a clear difference between your complaining and anyone else's. Maybe you can clarify what you are doing about the current border control issues that separates you from the people proving your point. I for one have worked in tandem with CBP, ICE, DHS, and am currently developing training exercises with the US Navy. I have been down and seen the 8 wall prototypes and was there when CBP asked for more visibility options in the physical structure. Also I post here to share my opinion and hear others. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 14:41:26 5A447F7E677B726E170 wrote:
well EXCUSE ME for not being president or in congress . [smiley=angry.gif] do you need stick pulled from your bum?? Edit: okay, yeah, that's a bit much, sorry MS. but seriously, as normal everyday people just trying to get by paycheck to paycheck.... what do you want us to do? It's useless for me to contact my senator, he's well up Trump's butt... same as my house representative.... so if all I got is yelling here, that's what ya get :-* |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by verslagen1 on 01/11/19 at 15:23:33 I believe the wall should be limited to the areas that require tear gas to control the mobs. Congress needs to write the bills that expands immigration. Why force them to pay exorbitant amounts for coyotes, pack them in trucks like cattle or marched across the desert to die. Only to fear deportation or extortion at every cross roads. That is the true lack of empathy. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/11/19 at 15:36:31 392A3D3C232E282A217E4F0 wrote:
[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/11/19 at 16:00:50 10332F281D2E28352F285C0 wrote:
well EXCUSE ME for not being president or in congress . [smiley=angry.gif] do you need stick pulled from your bum?? Edit: okay, yeah, that's a bit much, sorry MS. but seriously, as normal everyday people just trying to get by paycheck to paycheck.... what do you want us to do? It's useless for me to contact my senator, he's well up Trump's butt... same as my house representative.... so if all I got is yelling here, that's what ya get :-*[/quote] Lost, I actually sympathize with your view. As you know I spend my time and money working with the poor in Central America. I believe you really do care. However we cant just open the borders to the world. Where would it stop? Are they going to sleep under bridges? If we declared our borders open the humanitarian crisis would be unbelievable. Everyone would run the risk and the death and extortion would sky rocket. The best we can do to help is to do it where they live. What do I think they should do? Build the wall! Like I said every leader we have had has said we need barriers for the last 20 years. Do it. If it dosnt work we will then know and can move to something else. Yes Lost, I get frustrated and need to yell also sometimes. We need to stop making this about Dems and Repubs. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/12/19 at 03:51:33 3224332E36232E35410 wrote:
Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups. Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?... Do you have any crisis that you wait 2 years to do anything about?. If you do,... is it really a crisis?... Trump's crisis is Russia... the wall is a rallying cry to hold on to the base as the facts of Trump's Russian collusion come to light. The wall is chum for a shark feeding frenzy. [/quote] For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Serowbot on 01/12/19 at 09:02:31 0B393E2F28392E113D2E375C0 wrote:
For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up. [/quote] Can you read?... :-? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by eau de sauvage on 01/12/19 at 16:06:39 5D7D7F776A7D180 wrote:
Overall people are a net gain, there are "costs" and there are "costs". Let me explain... you might say that your bike "costs" you to run it. You mean of course the consumables and parts that wear out. But if we look at the larger "costs" in a cost/benefit analysis, you'd find either that any "cost" has in fact just been you paying for something you liked, OR say if it is a commuter bike, whatever it "costs" to run would be less than the "costs" you'd have to pay to get to work anyway. Looking at it the second way, you could say it didn't really "cost" anything to run the bike in fact it contributed to your pay packet when you add back the public transport cost you didn't pay. Or perhaps you couldn't even get a particular job without the bike due to location. You see what has happened is that a word like "costs" is used in such a puerile manner by Trump that the word loses all subtlety of meaning. If anyone is going to talk about immigration "costing" anything then seriously if the "costs" are not properly laid out and complete then it's just open to whatever prejudices people want to apply that suits their narrative. In the case of Trump he wants to pretend that the "costs" of immigration are an influx of violent rapists and murders. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/13/19 at 06:17:28 6771667B63767B60140 wrote:
For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up. [/quote] Can you read?... :-?[/quote] I read well thanks. A fairly good back and forth was going along and you jump in with more of your 9/11 style conspiracy crap.... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/14/19 at 06:26:13 If anyone is going to talk about immigration "costing" anything then seriously if the "costs" are not properly laid out and complete then it's just open to whatever prejudices people want to apply that suits their narrative. In the case of Trump he wants to pretend that the "costs" of immigration are an influx of violent rapists and murders. There is a COST of rape and murder due to illegal aliens. That's an undeniable fact. You can ignored or explained that cost away by saying there is already a cost from rape and murder due to US citizens. That's true, but there is an additional cost from illegal aliens. Now, if you want to argue that cost is mitigated by benefits from illegal aliens, go ahead. Maybe you could make that case. I could make the case that the benefits from legal immigrants with green cards issued to top level scientist and doctors from other nations exceeds the cost of the small number of rapes and murders they commit. I'm sure there are examples of that group committing those crimes, but my sense is its a very rare occurrence. The unescapable bottom line is there is an increase in violent crime due to illegal aliens. Period. Full stop. Is it offset by the overall benefit to the nation? That's a question for each one to answer. I say no. You say yes because it gives additional votes to the Democratic party. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/14/19 at 13:35:42 7E4C4B5A5D4C5B64485B42290 wrote:
no, it has nothing to do with the Democratic Party, it's just MATH. it's a small percentage of illegals that commit crime, now listen, cause this is where it gets tricky.... THE REST (YOU KNOW, THE FAR FAR 90+% MAJORITY) OF THEM DONT' COMMIT CRIME . so therefore, via math, the benefits outweigh the danger. in fact: http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/WJTaRt8y_kXgbbYLXETMgSFKI-I=/1248x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/FQLW6LJ6UQZENBOZDZMBXVA6EM.png http://https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b7ec10d959f34202e8b5277-960-720.png |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/15/19 at 03:42:53 Eegore, read link below for your review and comments. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-in-border-fight-democrats-want-technological-wall-that-wont-keep-anybody-out |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Serowbot on 01/15/19 at 12:20:52 Walls and fences are temporary solutions that focus on the symptom (illegal immigration) rather than the problem (employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens). Walls and fences are only a speed bump. People who want to come to the United States to obtain employment will continue to go over, under, and around the walls and fences that are constructed. Walls and fences will undoubtedly result in an increase in fraudulent documents and smuggling through the Ports of Entry. Walls and fences do not solve the issue of people entering the country legally and staying beyond the date they are required to leave the country, a problem which will undoubtedly increase as more walls and fences are constructed. Walls and fences require just as much manpower to protect them. Border Patrol Agents witness what happens to walls and fences when there are not enough Border Patrol agents to protect them. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/15/19 at 13:32:52 "Eegore, read link below for your review and comments. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-in-border-fi... " "On the other hand, a physical barrier would be a big obstacle and, if placed in key areas of the border, would likely reduce illegal crossings significantly." In key areas of the border. Just like your airport analogy, I believe large open spaces should use fences, airports are large open spaces. There isn't a continuous large barrier around "Cheyenne Mountain" where NORAD was housed for decades because fences on mountains don't work in accordance to cost. But as you stated cost is no issue so they should have spent billions fencing NORAD also. The people commenting in the article have not worked in border control, but they know a better way than the people who do the job now. Convenient that border control access is the only job in the world where people who have never been there can do a better job than those that have. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/15/19 at 13:41:14 AZ landowner John Ladd, whose family has had property along rhe border for 122 years has said he supports Trump's idea for a wall, in certain places, but he also knows it won't be sufficient on its own in protecting his property. "He said he has frequently endured drug smugglers breaching the existing 18-foot steel fence on his land by using power tools, or even ramming their vehicles through. He has also been frustrated by migrants and Border Patrol agents alike, who he says saunter through his land at will." http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/040418_ranchers_border/time-we-get-serious-az-ranchers-support-trumps-move-militarize-border/ Wrong! People that have never been there know better, build a wall. "One such group is the Texas Border Volunteers, who began in 2006 as an offshoot of the then-popular Minutemen patrol groups. TBV spokesman Jim Gibson told Business Insider that the group has observed a massive downturn in border-crossing traffic in recent years. They attribute the change less to Trump's tough-talk on border security, and more to the enhanced technology that Border Patrol agents and state authorities now use. For TBV, which patrols private lands some 70 miles inland near Falfurrias, the heightened technology means that Border Patrol is "responding quicker" to migrant traffic, which "never gets a chance to make it [to] where we're at." Gibson said the technology, combined with increased manpower of the Border Patrol and National Guard troops, will ultimately make more of a difference in securing the border than any physical wall could. "This is my view: The physical barrier is only one aspect of what's going to be required to fix the problem," Gibson said. "Until our legislatures start to deal with issues like employment, social services, birthright citizenship, and all the other magnets that attract people here in the first place, they'll find a way to get here." He continued: "Let's be realistic. Some people envision this wall as a solid barrier that runs from one end of the border to the other. That's never going to happen." https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5#some-texans-have-been-waiting-so-long-for-the-government-to-secure-the-border-theyve-taken-matters-into-their-own-hands-throughout-texas-as-well-as-the-other-border-states-armed-civilians-have-formed-volunteer-groups-to-patrol-the-borderlands-and-either-detain-or-report-suspected-illegal-border-crossers-to-border-patrol-35 Wrong! People who have never actively patrolled for illegal immigrants know better than those who do. Build a wall. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/15/19 at 16:49:04 6545474F5245200 wrote:
why? why are you trying to keep people from the American dream? they do TONS better at it than American citizens you're scared, that's why. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/15/19 at 19:17:34 why? why are you trying to keep people from the American dream? they do TONS better at it than American citizens you're scared, that's why. I'm not trying to keep people from the American Dream, I would however like the proper legal procedures to take place. Are you saying that the following is ok?: "breaching the existing 18-foot steel fence on his land by using power tools, or even ramming their vehicles through" If so why is that? Why is illegally crossing the US border by means of destructive force reasonable, and why is it indicative of fear that one would like non-destructive, legal measures to be more efficiently utilized? Why should that private legal American citizen have his land destroyed so people can achieve the American Dream? |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/16/19 at 04:37:11 Why should that private legal American citizen have his land destroyed so people can achieve the American Dream? Because they will vote in high numbers for Democratic candidates. That's the only reason. Nothing else is true. If a caravan coming up through Central America were wearing MAGA hats and carrying Trump signs, Sew, TT, Lost would be asking for $100 billion to stop them. They'd dig out the Rio Grande to 500 yards wide and add guards armed with machine guns on the 100' tall Great Wall of Southeast they'd build. Lost says he wants the American Dream for all but if 10,000 destitute immigrants showed up and basically took over the area he lives in and we're campaigning for a Trump second term, he crap his little britches. This is only about votes to lefties. But you'll regret what you gave up to win a battle against Trump. Ask the average citizen of Sweden or Germany if allowing millions into their country just to give the impression they are compassionate, was worth it. I have. We have a few Swedes here this week and they are not happy. I have two German colleagues I'm working with on a project and over a few beers, they'll tell you the truth. You people are fools. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Serowbot on 01/16/19 at 06:45:13 5D6F68797E6F78476B78610A0 wrote:
Trump ran from day one on a wall and fearmongering,... and you think Dem's are politicising the issue?... Dem's ran on healthcare... The BS is on your side |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/16/19 at 08:02:17 If they carried Trump signs, you show up on the border with bricks and mortar.... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Serowbot on 01/16/19 at 08:40:01 We're growing plenty enough Liberals domestically... Trumpettes are a dying breed.. Get used to it |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/16/19 at 10:12:13 LOL....the insanity of the left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wmLRE4Xnfo&feature=youtu.be |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by Eegore on 01/16/19 at 11:06:17 "If they carried Trump signs, you show up on the border with bricks and mortar.... " I could care less who it is, I am concern my self only with what is getting done. A full-length physical wall isn't cost effective, never has been. The rancher cited is pro-Trump, still doesn't think a full-length wall will work on his land. He's wrong, people who never been there know better. Put a wall where it belongs, let the private property owners have input, let the National Guard have input, let people doing the job have input and let the people who have never ever been there have input, but do not discard the current working methods for one that only people who have never done any border enforcement think will work. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/17/19 at 04:59:38 5C4A5D40584D405B2F0 wrote:
As I've said many times before, I'm fully aware I'm on the losing side. Trump's 4 or 8 years in office are at best a temporary stay of execution. You will succeed in destroying the greatest nation this planet has seen. Not sure who or what will fill the vacuum. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/17/19 at 05:24:58 As I've said many times before, I'm fully aware I'm on the losing side. Trump's 4 or 8 years in office are at best a temporary stay of execution. You will succeed in destroying the greatest nation this planet has seen. Not sure who or what will fill the vacuum. [/quote] UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS VERY TRUE! PROGGRESSIVISM DESTROYS EVERYTHING IN IT'S PATH. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/17/19 at 06:23:37 1A043F3E273B322E570 wrote:
UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS VERY TRUE! PROGGRESSIVISM DESTROYS EVERYTHING IN IT'S PATH. [/quote] LOL - "destroy" it how? And to what end? Why would we want to destroy it? We all live in this country. Progressivism is what made this country great. Lincoln was a progressive of his time. Eisenhower was too. The word progressive is derived from progress. How can anyone not want progress? Get over yourselves, maybe your way of life is dying, but there's a reason that AOC and her fellow freshmen are so popular. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by MShipley on 01/17/19 at 06:41:29 My way (as you call it) was based on freedom and personal responsibility. You can have your beliefs and views and do what you want. The ideals of OLDER Progressives are based in these same principals of Freedom and personal responsibility. The newer ones are totally different. The rise of people like AOC is the rise of a new Socialist total control of human ideology. This new government will not allow people to be what they want to be but will demand capitulation to their worldview. Kinda like China, Islam, etc: Foolishly you embrace that. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by T And T Garage on 01/17/19 at 08:08:20 1C023938213D3428510 wrote:
Again, to what end m? Why the hell would we want to destroy the country we live in? Show me where AOC or any progressive is doing what you say. Why is the worldview of holding the ultra rich and corporations to the same burden as everyone else so terrible? Why is wanting healthcare for all such a terrible thing? Do you have a problem equality? Are you cool with billionaires buying our politicians? AOC ran with no corporate or PAC money. Neither did Beto. This is the future. This is a country of the people and for the people - not just the rich, white, Christian people. But honestly, I can understand your fear. Your way of life is on the way out. Sad that you fear it and don't embrace it. I can see my children and grandchildren living in a much better place than that of today. Thankfully, we'll never see the likes of trump in office again. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/17/19 at 12:09:28 09292B233E294C0 wrote:
yes, because that wall shouldn't exist, if immigration was legal and easy, everyone gets a tax ID number and gets to work, then they'd come in through the current LEGAL ports of entry, like you do, or anyone else does. That private legal American citizen WOULDN'T have his land destroyed, they'd come, they'd work and pay taxes, they'd go. let's be clear, I WANT OPEN BORDERS. security at all the legal entry points for drugs should be increased, and then, maybe even a wall if the drugs start coming in through the desert. Let's force the drug dealers to dare the deserts, not the families and asylum seekers. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/17/19 at 12:20:42 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
you're a tool, a complete empty shallow vessel of fear mongering pathetic excuse of a human. |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/17/19 at 12:22:45 7D635859405C5549300 wrote:
insanity is living in the past and not learning from it |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by WebsterMark on 01/17/19 at 14:20:40 you are SUCH A HUGE F U C K I N PARITSAN HACK!!!! OMG!!! YOU'RE GAY FOR TRUMP. a complete empty shallow vessel of fear mongering pathetic excuse of a human. Tell me how you really feel Lost!.... |
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Title: Re: I can't find my shocked face Post by LostArtist on 01/17/19 at 14:41:01 784A4D5C5B4A5D624E5D442F0 wrote:
awwww, can't take it?? you can dish it out, calling us all fools and worse.... and you love it when Trump hands it out... here you go... don't worry, I'm sure you're truly unique and one of a kind, special little http://https://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/m001209305_sc7?wid=512&hei=512 |
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