SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1542083538

Message started by Drifter.. on 11/12/18 at 20:32:18

Title: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Drifter.. on 11/12/18 at 20:32:18

Ok, after being beat to death with the stock shocks i decided to start experimenting....bought a pair of progressive 412s and 440s the 440s were better than stock but not much both have the lighter springs the latest are a pair of Suzuki GZ 250 shocks. :)

These are an inch or so longer than stock so the rear of the bike is higher but still looks good and the best part they ride at least 50 percent better than any of the above!! Another plus is the additional height in the rear, the bike actually handles better as well so they are a win win in my book! The eyelets are not the correct size so i swapped them with the ones i was using in the 440s bolted them on and have been enjoying the softer ride! I think they would work for folks under 200 lb not sure above that i weigh 165 and they sure are an improvement! :) Now some 5 weight fork oil to soften up the front end!

I picked them up off ebay for less than 50 bucks they had some rust but a little time and some steel wool they look almost new.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Mechaniac on 11/13/18 at 19:50:15

Have you got and pics? Before and after would be great.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Hiko on 11/14/18 at 23:22:29

I have been interested in making the rear of my 2012 s40 a little easier on my back so I have been following this conversion.

Please comment if any of my assumptions are wrong The GZ250 wet weight is 331lbs and the s40 is 381 lb
If we assume that 60 % of the extra 50 lbs is on the rear we have a difference of 30 lbs extra.
A lot of that extra weight will be unsprung due to a heavier rear wheel and tyre etc which will not be affected by the shocks
Take off some more weight for the muffler change to a dyna that a lot of us have done and the difference in weight is not a lot as seen by the shocks. True?

The gz250 shocks are 310mm eye to eye compared to the s40 270mm
an increase in height of 40mm which due to the angle of action will lift the rear 50mm or 2 inches I estimate.
The top eye is 12 mm and the bottom eye is 10 mm with an inside measurement of the rubber insert 16mm on the gz shocks
The S 40 shocks are 14mm top and bottom and the rubber inside measurement is 17 mm
By making new bushes and accepting the rear lift this looks to me like a good easy modification to make for an easier ride for us with dodgy backs

Thanks to Drifter for the heads up on this

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by verslagen1 on 11/15/18 at 07:20:10

You need to check the travel on the gz shocks or you'll be in for a surprise on the 1st big bump.

Because of the angle of the shocks, you'll get less increase in height not more than the increase in length. And if the shocks are softer, then more sag.

But it worth a try, let us know what happens.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Hiko on 11/15/18 at 13:22:44

After thinking some more on this and struggling with the geometry/trigonometry that I havent used for more years than I can remember I resorted to laying the angles and distances out on the floor I came up with a scary figure of 100 mm or 4 inches of extra height over the center of the rear tire by putting 310mm shocks on instead of the 270mm originals and yet Drifter has successfully done it so I am confused.
There must be a lot of sag to make this work out OK

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Mechaniac on 11/15/18 at 18:30:36

The springs are what holds up the weight, not the free length of the shock. With a smaller diameter wire the spring will be softer and collapse further at the same weight as the factory shock. So it's not a simple this coil over shock is x long and we replaced it with one y long so the height increased by the difference. With a lighter spring rate but slightly longer free length you will likely end up closer to a 50% increase in loaded height for the lighter longer coil. This will be softer on the ride as well. The dampener portion of the coil over shock only limits travel speed, it doesn't hold any weight. A longer damper gives more travel but at some point may not collapse as short as the original shorter shock.

Without specific specifications and suspension calculations one would have to go with general guidlines and experiment like the OP. Good thing these parts are inexpensive. It would be good to know the rider in questions wieght and which preload setting they are using, also what year range of the bike the experimental shocks come from, there are differences.

Vernon

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/15/18 at 19:04:34

Without specific specifications one simply can't avoid general generalities.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Dave on 11/16/18 at 02:57:49

536675717971140 wrote:

I came up with a scary figure of 100 mm or 4 inches of extra height over the center of the rear tire by putting 310mm shocks on instead of the 270mm originals and yet Drifter has successfully done it so I am confused.

When we convert the bike to a Cafe' or Scrambler - we use shocks up to 340mm in length. This is as long as you can get, and if you go longer the swingarm angle becomes pretty extreme, and the belt tension gets out of control. With the 340mm you need to run the belt a bit looser, as it tightens when the shocks are compressed.

The stock shocks only have 1.5" of travel, and what you perceive as a stiff riding shock may actually be the limited amount of travel. I weigh 170 and my bike would bottom out the shocks if I hit a big bump. Replacement shocks can often have more travel and may allow your tire to bottom out on the fender if they allow too much travel. You can get spacers from Progressive that fasten onto the shock piston shaft if you need to limit travel.
https://www.mxmegastore.com/progressive-suspension-travel-limiter-25-305013.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA8rnfBRB3EiwAhrhBGtZB3SB-AiAhvfeTGxdeIvquxInL37JBG28bjFOF5pmDOYR3Fi51ZBoCLJYQAvD_BwE

The Intruder 800 shocks work well on the Savage.....if you find that your attempts don't come up with any improvement. I don't believe they are softer - but they have more travel and provide a better ride.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by badwolf on 11/16/18 at 06:13:12

Dave, You must have done some serious weight loss since I saw you last, 70lbs WOW!
On this thread, if you run a single seat, best thing you can do is mount it on rear springs. 4 inch springs will give you at least 2 inces movement on the seat. Mine made a world of differnce.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Dave on 11/16/18 at 07:33:28

5B594A544A485059514A380 wrote:

Dave, You must have done some serious weight loss since I saw you last, 70lbs WOW!

Nope....missed the first 100 pounds when I typed (fixed it).

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Drifter.. on 11/23/18 at 04:16:19

Very interesting comments about the shocks, i am impressed with all the math and angles and theory of design etc. You guys are smarter than i am! Good work on posting all the dimensions of the shocks weights of the 2 bikes and eyelets spring thickness etc. I did some of that before i decided to buy the GZ shocks and experiment, which in this case worked out for me.

I have a bad back in order to ride most bikes i have to make some mods or changes so that is what i did here. Yes they sag when you sit on the bike, even so it still sits higher than the stock ones. The roads around here are not that bad so i found a couple rough spots to test bottoming and they diden't your results may very with bigger bumps.

In a further attempt to soften the ride i bought a pair of Vstar 250 shocks, amazing they slid right on an fit perfect! The bad news for my weight they were just to soft with most of the tight progressive spring being used up just sitting on the bike which caused a rougher ride than the GZ shocks, that being said for someone weighing 120 lbs or less they might work fine with even a better ride. I have a Vstar 250 and the stock suspension is really nice compared to the S40! The Vstar is a really nice bike and does not get near enough credit for what it is.

Pictures on the way....i hope!

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by dustystranger on 12/12/18 at 19:13:50

I picked up a pair of gz250 shocks for $30 delivered. The ride is smoother. I have them set on the stiffest position and I weight 180lbs. I suspect if you weigh more, they may be too soft for some. These are not for someone building a cafe bike.
I notice that there are two basic groups that use this forum. The first are those that want to change this cruiser into something else. I admire these fellas for creating something special. The other group is asking simple questions because they have yet to buy a shop manual. But then there are a few who just want to pass on some info that would apply to what I call typical riders. Your advice of a shock change applies to this small group. So when you say you have discovered a shock change that only gives one a"softer" ride, the first group is not interested in such pedestrian improvements. And the second group is not even aware that a shock change is possible or even desireable. But I want to congratulate you on passing along info to ordinary riders like me.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Beerm8 on 12/16/18 at 06:17:23

very interested in this thread. I"m 6" and have a 70 year old back and a $50 budget. Any tips on where to find or how to fab up the replacement eyelets for these GZ250 shocks?

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Hiko on 12/16/18 at 12:12:10

My understanding is that the stock rubber bushings with the 14mm center
will push out of the stock shocks and can be pushed in to the Gz250 shocks
Can someone confirm this ?
I think I may have tracked down some Gz 250 shocks

Beerm8 You are just a whippersnapper to me!

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by batman on 12/16/18 at 17:38:35

Drifter .I wouldn't be going to 5w oil for the front forks that normally take 15w , they would probably bottom out or dive badly, every time you applied the front brake.You might try removing a small bit (a few cc's) of oil , leaving more room for air-It's compressible-oil isn't.

Title: Re: Softer Riding Shocks Savage/S40
Post by Beerm8 on 01/09/19 at 15:58:40

update after 30miles on the GZ250 shocks. Railroad crossings and expansions strips are a breeze, cant speak to long distance rides yet, ride angle feels more natural.