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Message started by MMRanch on 11/11/18 at 19:56:49

Title: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/11/18 at 19:56:49

I've found that sometimes "Brand" name are over rated and sometimes the under-dog turns out to be just great .

Well , my mig welder has broken .
I'm thinking of getting one of those (All-in-One) , Mig , Stick , Tig , Spool gun type this time .
I'm also suffering from "sticker shock" some-what !

So , my question is ??? :

Anybody had any dealings with the "Klutch" brand ?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200712293_200712293

Add a Tig torch for less than $100.oo : https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631806_200631806

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Ruttly on 11/11/18 at 21:44:08

MM , Before you buy a off brand find out who makes it and if parts are readily available ! When you buy a Miller or a Lincoln you can be sure parts can be had for many years to come. I prefer Miller , you get what you pay for , a great welder !

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/18 at 22:15:00

you get what you pay for

Rarely

You will pay for what you get

Pretty much every time

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by sandmanred on 11/12/18 at 03:21:42

I've owned both an cheap import and blue. Probably the only reason I have a blue now is that I came into some money I didn't expect. I could have bought and discarded 5 cheap imports before I had spent the same amount of money I did on blue. The cheap import performed okay and was not quite as full featured as my blue. The cheap import did develop some issues with the lift arc start method but it also has high frequency start that worked well until I sold it. I would never buy that brand again because the only US location was in California.

I'd feel better about buying an imported brand from retailer that I can drive to than a retailer that has an import office in California. At least that way to can walk it back into the store if it breaks down. Ask them about how they deal with warranty issues before you buy.

If you are looking for a basic DC TIG and wire feed unit and you're not using it to make a living I think I'd consider taking a chance on the Klutch if I knew the retailer would stand behind it with a simple return or replace policy through the warranty period. I'm not familiar with wire feed welding but I'd at least ask about the spool so you can buy your wire anywhere.

The torch on the other hand I'd pass. It's a 17 air cooled torch so at least your consumables should be common and readily available from many suppliers. An air cooled torch will get hot and so even though they never say it has short duty cycle because it gets hot. If you've got a lot of welding to do you'll have to stop and let it cool from time to time. 10 foot hoses are short. Vinyl hoses get stiff in the cold. I always get a flex head torch, it's nice to be able to adjust the handle angle to provide a comfortable grip in different position.

The 17 torch is rated for 150 amps but you can push it 200, it just get hot faster. You could go to 26 torch that's rated for 200 amps. The trade off is it's just bigger. It still gets hot almost as fast as the 17 so it's really not that different. Luckily the consumable are common so if you get one and decide you want the other at least all your consumables can be used on either torch.

I have bought several CK Superflex hose and Flex and hose sets. They are more expensive but the cables are very flexible and tough. I always get a cable cover too. The cables are spendy and the covers are cheap and disposable. They come in either 12.5 or 25 foot lengths. Here's an amazon link to one that's only $10 more than what you posted as an example. Just be sure to check the connections are right when you go to buy, this is only an example.

https://www.amazon.com/CK-CK17V-12-RSF-Torch-150A-SuperFlex/dp/B00JV8OWF6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542020592&sr=8-1&keywords=ck+superflex+tig+torch

If you think you'll weld a lot a water cooled torch is great. It's a more expensive torch kit and you need a cooler too. My advice is get started with an air cooled torch and decide later if you want to go water cooled.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/18 at 04:36:48

How cool is that?

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/12/18 at 07:38:21

Look at Eastwood......they have good customer support for their products.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/12/18 at 08:14:49

I'd feel better about buying an imported brand from retailer that I can drive to than a retailer that has an import office in California. At least that way to can walk it back into the store if it breaks down. Ask them about how they deal with warranty issues before you buy.

Yea , Northern Tools sells the Klutch brand , but I haven't gone the 50 miles to the nearest Northern Tools store yet.

I was looking at the Local Harbor Freight store. They have the "Vulcan" series welders and they are getting a brand called "TITANIUM" that are slightly lower price - not that $700.00 is really Cheep … :-/

So , I've never had a "TIG" before. Dad had a Lincoln 220 that I grew-up with. Then I mig welded for Samsonite for a few year before my military time. I've still got the old Lincoln , but have wore out my second "cheep" mig . Hardly a week goes by that I don't have a need for a welder , usually twice .

So , the "Tig" ark unit gets really warm sometimes ? ::) (learning more all the time). :)

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by sandmanred on 11/12/18 at 11:48:57

514351434E5D525F541C0 wrote:

The TIG torch gets hot, especially where you hold it and of course the higher the amps the hotter it runs. I'd say up to around 100 amps just the time it takes to reposition yourself for each weld is long enough to cool the torch and won't slow you down. Once you are in the 150 amps and up range you'll be taking breaks to let the torch cool.

As a ball park number you should run around 1 amp per thousandth inch. So 1/8 or 0.125 inch material runs around 125 amps.

Once you get a handle on TIG I predict you'll like it. DC tig is quiet and clean, no spatter or hot slag. You can see exactly what you are doing and you have full control over how much filler gets added. It's got a long learning curve so be prepared for that ;)

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/12/18 at 19:59:22

Dave , those "EastWood" brand are not priced out of range , and three year guarantee is the best I've seen.

I may just get a cheep mig like I've been getting by with for years , but I should get one that is "Spool-Gun" ready this time . Then add a Argon tank so I can do Aluminum .

Those AC Tig machines are $ , more than I'd get out of it. So , the Spool gun is more my $$ range.

Dave you must have a Eastwood 175 ?

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-mig-welder-175-amp-with-spool-gun.html

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/13/18 at 03:39:36

021002101D0E010C074F0 wrote:

Dave you must have a Eastwood 175 ?

My Mig welder is a Miller 200....waaay more welder than I deserve, but I had a friend pass away that owned it and I bought it from the estate at a great price. It has a brand new spool gun that has never been used.

I did buy myself an Eastwood TIG 200 last year when they were on sale for $600. As Sandmanred stated, I have found out the learning process is lengthy. Unlike a MIG where you are just welding with one hand (maybe a second hand to help keep you steady), with the TIG you need to use one hand on the torch the other hand will feed the rod......and a foot to control the heat! The metal also has to be completely clean and spotless with the TIG - you can't have any rust, paint, or mil slag on the parts......a MIG can weld right through that crap but the TIG doesn't like any kind of impurity. Learning to make pretty TIG welds is going to take me a very long time!

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/14/18 at 07:51:02

Ordered the EastWood 175 w/Spool-Gun ,

3 year service plan
parts availability
good reviews

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-mig-welder-175-amp-with-spool-gun.html

The $70.00 shipping was kinda hard to agree with , but over-all still < than going to Harbor-Freight !

:)

I learned a little about Tig Welding with this adventure . The biggest reason I even thought about TIG was Aluminum , but now I know it takes AC-TIG to do. Those AC TIG machines are SO-MUCH-MORE than just getting a spool gun that I can't justify the $$.

So , now I'm shopping or a gas bottle ? :-? 40 ,60 ,80 ,120 ?

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/14/18 at 08:23:01

746674666B78777A71390 wrote:

So , now I'm shopping or a gas bottle ? :-?

Check with your local welding supply store......if you buy a bottle from them you can likely just exchange when you need to. If you buy from somewhere else they will likely need to fill your bottle, and for most places that means trucking it to wherever they have their bottles filled...then trucking it back, and it may take several days/week to get your filled bottle back.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/14/18 at 08:50:31

.then trucking it back, and it may take several days/week to get your filled bottle back.

Dave , is that the voice of experience ?

The only bottle I've had to buy is the Oxygen bottle on the gas welder.

Its a 80CF and cost near $200.oo best I remember , I thought they would "refill" it . So , I painted it with my "Decal" on it. Well when refill time came , They took mine and gave me a full one (much to my surprise). But it only cost $12.oo so I didn't care.
Come to find out the "refill cost is the same on the 60 , 80 , or 125 CF w/Oxygen at my local weld shop.

So , how fast do ya go through a tank , or is it just cheaper to use the Gas-Core wire. I've been using Gas-Core all these years , but Aluminum don't come in Gas-Core ... So , here comes a bottle ! ::)

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/14/18 at 09:28:37

I have never used coated wire - my welder has always had a bottle of gas.

How long does it last.....it really depends on how big a bottle and how much you weld. My bottle is a 120, and it lasts me 4 or 5 years unless I have a major project going.

If you are welding indoors and are not in the wind you can crank the gas flow pretty low - outdoors the wind can make it hard to keep the shielding gas from blowing away.

I have a very small amount of experience with a spool gun and aluminum - but I did learn it takes a lot of heat, and the weld does not penetrate much into the aluminum.....the weld bead is big and is definitely "proud" of the surface. Pretty fillet welds on aluminum require a TIG welder.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/14/18 at 15:40:47

I've been welding off and on for years.
Got a harbor freight stick welder. I've had friends over who weld with it. Looks okay. If I want a pretty weld, there is Gonna be some grinding involved.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/14/18 at 20:28:57

If I want a pretty weld, there is Gonna be some grinding involved.

;D

Laughing with ya buddy !

………………………………………

Sandmaned and Dave ,

so if I get close to either of your welders next summer I'd like to give that TIG stuff a try if ya have (it/them) hooked up. And you don't mind , that is ? :-?

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by sandmanred on 11/15/18 at 03:08:13

594B594B46555A575C140 wrote:

Absolutely, I always have a bottle of argon and an extra hood. I've done my own little version of intro to TIG many times to help people get started. What could be better than a few hours welding and motorcycles?

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/15/18 at 03:46:38

56445644495A5558531B0 wrote:

Sandmaned and Dave ,

so if I get close to either of your welders next summer I'd like to give that TIG stuff a try if ya have (it/them) hooked up. And you don't mind , that is ? :-?

My welder is hooked up in the winter - not just in the summer!

If you and Marcia get bored this winter....you can come up and visit.

However.....I am not going to be able to give you any qualified lessons, as the TIG stuff is all new to me as well. I don't think I have spent more than 15 minutes with it yet.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by Dave on 11/26/18 at 05:55:48

MM:

Do you want a "free" cart for your new welder and tank?

http://i68.tinypic.com/mmyjo5.jpg

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/18 at 09:40:32

Some less expensive products are
Made by a quality manufacturer and just badged differently.
Find out who makes the thing.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by engineer on 11/26/18 at 11:56:10

TIG welding is easy if you ever learned to weld with an oxy-actylene torch, a skill which was often taught in high school industrial arts courses. Actually it is easier because the shielding is better and you don't get all the popping when the puddle blows out and it is easier to control the puddle.

Professional welders and industry always buy the best welders for a couple reasons. One is duty cycle, they have to run the things for hours on end and that means the welder has to be made with quality components. At home you don't need that sort of duty cycle. Also industrial welders last for decades. I've seen 40 year old Miller welders doing just fine. Secondly, the better welders have some built in controls that help with starting an arc etc. Those features make for easier welding. Having said all that it still seems wasteful to pay a few thousand dollars for a welder if you don't use it frequently. I think a guy would do well to borrow one or buy a cheap one and see how often it is used before buying an expensive machine. Also, don't overlook stick welding. With a 220v AC/DC welder and a good selection of rods a stick welder is a very versatile machine and is usually a little cheaper to buy.

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/18 at 18:06:43

've seen 40 year old Miller welders doing just fine.

My buddy, Vernon Miller, his dad was over sixty and StillKikkinAss. A welding Mo-Fo....

Title: Re: BRAND NAME VERSES MONEY - Welder
Post by MMRanch on 11/26/18 at 20:48:41

With a 220v AC/DC welder and a good selection of rods a stick welder is a very versatile machine and is usually a little cheaper to buy.
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Dad bought a Lincoln 220 the year I was 14 yrs/old. I inherited it 24 years ago . So , I've still got the welder I grew-up with.

Here is what I just bought with a spool-gun to do Aluminum with . :)

I've wore-out two of the Chicago Electric 220 volt Mig welders , and Mig welded for Samsonite for a few years before my Army time , it payed good but It was a sooty job ! ;D

Thanks for the offer Dave , I got this one at HF for $40.00 minus 20%. Added a $180.oo Ebay 80CF tank / $27.oo to fill it up --- and I'm ready to try out my first Aluminum project. ::) I think !