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Message started by DragBikeMike on 10/27/18 at 23:08:24

Title: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/27/18 at 23:08:24

Does anyone have used performance cams that they would be willing to lend me for a few days? I want to check and record the cam timing & lift data to develop a file that we all can use to compare cams. I intend to measure the timing points in five-degree increments and then plot on a bell curve. That way, it will be very easy to compare the various cams. Data will also include TDC lift and gross lift, along with intake & exhaust duration, intake open, intake closed, exhaust open, exhaust closed. All data taken at both .040" & .050" lift.

I will pay USPS flat rate (small box) to & from. We can do Paypal. You have my word that the cam will be returned in as received condition. Wiped out cams might be useful if at least one lobe (intake or exhaust is still in good condition, but obviously I would prefer cams with lobes still in reasonably good condition. Minor pitting shouldn't be a problem as long as there isn't a rut worn into the lobe.

LMK what ya got and we can work something out.

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by Dave on 10/28/18 at 03:28:25

I can loan you a stock, Stage 1 and Stage 3 cams.

My Stage 1 cam has some minor exhaust lobe issues that you can probably work around. (This cam profile is no longer being ground so maybe you don't want to waste time measuring it).

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/28/18 at 11:35:12

That's great Dave. I already have a stock cam in-hand, and a DR cam in the bike, so the Stage 1 & Stage 3 cams are perfect additions. I will PM you so we can work out the details.

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by batman on 10/29/18 at 07:22:39

DBM ,sorry I don't have a cam to send ,but I'm very interested in seeing the results ! You do great work .

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/30/18 at 01:01:47

Mahalo Batman. I will do my best. The more we know, the faster we go.

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by Dave on 10/30/18 at 03:53:55

I just remembered....I also have a WebCam 466 grind. Do you want it sent with the others?

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/30/18 at 10:42:43

That's great Dave. Send the 466 too. I have a spare head cover with rocker arms so doing the timing checks is easy. The more cam profiles that we have data on the better off we all are. Currently, we know almost nothing regarding the available cams. Simply knowing the duration and lift just isn't enough, and having data that gets down to the nitty gritty will allow us to make informed decisions when purchasing a cam for a particular engine setup. Any cam that can be installed in a LS650 is a good candidate for my timing checks.

Jeeez! I never even heard of the WebCam 466 grind. Is it a cam intended for the LS650 or is it intended for an early DR650?

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/18 at 12:42:06

more cam profiles that we have data on the better off we all are.

That Looks like a good statement.
I'm not a mechanical genius, but the question I'm having is

Without flow charts, what do we really know?
There are different valve overlap engines that create more power than would Look right using other valve timing ideas.

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by batman on 10/30/18 at 15:16:16

I must admit being a bit confused about the actual valve lift of the exhaust valves, do the numbers take in to account the different rocker arm ratio (uneven pivot point) found on the exhaust side ? I believe DragBikeMike did take his reading on the valve stems so the rocker arm length is a mute question. but if your running a mostly stock motor(without going to a larger exhaust pipe). It might be a good thing to run an unbalanced cam ,that is to say ,one who's intake lift is smaller than it's exhaust valve lift. This type is sometimes found on production bikes for two reasons, either the intake channel is too good or (like in the case of the LS650) the exhaust channel is restrictive, and the added lift and maybe duration provides additional time to clear the exhaust from the cylinder allowing in more fresh fuel and air. (more mid range torque?)
While this is not a change that would benefit high performance , it does allow a quite ,smoother running motor(at cruising speeds), faster throttle response, and better fuel mileage.
As I said before, this is for a stock motor ,as replacing the exhaust system with a larger header and less restrictive muffler negates the need for the staggered cam in most motors (I'm not sure about the LS650 - our problem may still exist in the exhaust port and channel). It seem a shame that no cam of this nature is made /or has been tried . I think it would be of great benefit (Where did I put those new files? :) )

Title: Re: Want to Borrow Cams
Post by DragBikeMike on 10/31/18 at 00:27:24

Justin & Batman, your points are well taken. These issues are why I want to measure cam timing data in detail, and also why I am messing around with the budget flow bench. I am a firm believer in testing ideas. I admit that I frequently resort to seat-o-da-pants evaluations, but I usually try to make sure that I state that it's strictly an opinion, no hard data to back it up. On that rare occasion when I can afford some dyno time, I can actually get some quality data, and I share it.

So here we find ourselves in a cam conundrum. Few cams to choose from, and virtually no timing data to evaluate the available choices. To add to our frustration, the available cams are very expensive (with the exception of the early DR650 cam, but it is a very mild stick, almost stock-like).

So let's take the bull by the horns. We will accurately measure any cams that will fit the beast. Then we will have hard data to help us make informed choices. We will test mods to the cylinder head, ports & valves, and figure out why a particular cam works, or does not work, with the various head & port configurations.

Knowledge is power.