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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> When motivation becomes toxic..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1539882847 Message started by raydawg on 10/18/18 at 10:14:07 |
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Title: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/18/18 at 10:14:07 This week we lost a very big shaker out here in the Pacific Northwest, Paul Allen. His wealth was great, so was lots of other activities in his life. Reading about him, his legacy huge, opines differ so greatly, I wonder if everyone is talking about the same person? Anyway, my thoughts rambled over to wondering about this quest for wealth, that we in a capitalized society embrace, promote. I think a very important motivator in achieving wealth, is rooted in not having any at all, dire poverty. Its like a lonely girl, feeling lost, useless, without cause. Along comes a pimp, her life changes forevermore, and not for the good, even tho her immediate problems seemed satisfied, it created brand new ones she never knew existed before. Look at the dynasties that forged this nation in its youth. Most of the folks came from dire straights. How many of those succumbed to the lies wealth perpetuated? I look to this lawsuit against Harvard. The profiling against Asians because they represent such a higher level of achievement, ability, is telling. At Boeing I got to witness firsthand their drive, grit, tenacity, at the opportunity to earn a living, that just a generation ago, did not exist for them..... Anyway..... I am rambling, sorry. I just wonder how many folks will become disillusioned, when after they visit the spectacular awe of the traveling circus, it did not make their lives any better..... But only made fatter, the wallet, of PT Barnum? Who is your pimp? Ok, I will put down my bong ;D |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by Eegore on 10/19/18 at 07:01:20 I think our backgrounds are important to what we achieve and what we do with it, but who we are and how we make choices aren't dictated by it. I went from being homeless to giving away most of my money. Other people who were destitute or extremely poor that make plenty of money hoard it just in case. Both are ok, similar beginnings but different endings. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/19/18 at 09:02:05 0121232B3621440 wrote:
Interesting....... If you care to, I would love to hear your reasoning, what brought it about, a little more background leading up to this event. I am told in my bible to not "rely" on things of the flesh, which will only turn to dust. I understand the wisdom within its instructions, as putting value on such things of mankind, inhibits my trust/faith in my God. But I haven't escaped the indoctrination either, of capitalism, giving it more credit than what it can really sustain. True story. I have friends who go to Africa every year. They go out to the areas that are primitive, where water is still gathered daily, power is only on a few hours, if they have a working generator, etc. Housing is still mostly in single room huts, dirt floors. They bring with them the Word of God, but also items of comfort, things we consider mandatory, as a if its our entitlement for just being alive... As gifts, to these folks. I remember one story, a good friend of mine shared, he is a commercial airline pilot, very sweet and generous man.... He asked one of the folks they visit, why he always seemed so happy, when he lived in such a condition....? The guy replied: (something to this effect) I am not "burden" by all the "things" you in the civilized world MUST manage, and attend to..... My time if free to pursue the moment, and that is why my heart is happy. WOW..... I am sure some will testify they have it all balanced, and managed very well, etc. and will argue against this man's testimony...... Which to me reveals the wisdom behind this bit o' advice: You lie the loudest, when you lie to yourself...." Or....... Put another way, from the Jim Carey movie, Liar, Liar....... In the restroom, he explains his actions to another who stumbles into the scene.... "Whats wrong, never seen someone kicking their own azz!" ;D If you care to share your story, I would LOVE to hear it! :) |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by MShipley on 10/19/18 at 11:01:02 I was on a mission trip in Nicaragua, two of the young interpreters were sitting across from me on a bus. I asked if they had ever been to America and they said no. I asked them if they would like to some day? The two began talking (in Spanish) and after a while they told me No, they were not interested in visiting America. Of course I asked why not? There response was interesting. They said, (In America you live to work, in Nicaragua we work to live). I was invited to speak recently to a Honors High School class recently on Nepal since I have done work there with the locals whom are very poor. The class was on How to improve the state of poverty in other counties. It was interesting because in every presentation I heard the solution was $$$ and taking our vision of work and prosperity to these other countries. I am not sure how the students took it when I told them they have a basic flaw in their presumptions. I asked them why they think that these people want to live like we do in America? Why did they think our life was better? No one had an answer. I would submit that after all the traveling and cultures I have worked with it is those that have little that are the happiest. Most of our misery is created by trying to maintain our lifestyles. I came back from a trip once and a young man in my office was moaning about how his car had a flat and he didn't have the money to fix it and ohh what a hard life he had......I looked at him and told him if he sold his car he would not have the problem. I do not believe humans are better off because of how much stuff we have. we become slaves to it. There was a time in my life I also had EVERYTHING. One day I sold it all. The house, boat, camper, motorcycles everything. It really will free your soul. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/19/18 at 11:44:05 Interesting.....the ugly American comes to mind ;) So Ship, how do you feel then that the current justification of Trump is buoyed by the economy? Moral compass, much to be desired, healthy bank account, overlook his faults? |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by LostArtist on 10/19/18 at 11:55:58 445A616079656C70090 wrote:
Best thing ever posted here!! people in China and India etc.... didn't know they were poor until we told them they were. Edit: as a side note, I often struggle because I"m simply just not motivated by money, now I'm not stupid, I know I need money to pay bills and live, but I don't have a vision of success that is determined by things and wealth and "lifestyle" . I have a vision of a lifestyle I want, but it's not opulent or even middle class to be honest, I just want to make a living off of my art, which I kinda am, so I'm mostly content, but sometimes, as is life, repair bills, automobile costs, etc.. can be a stress but I get over it and do the best I can, but it really makes it hard to relate to a lot of people in our society, I'm not chasing the same thing as most, sure, money makes everything easier, but idk, it's hard to really describe how disconnected from this society I feel sometimes |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by MShipley on 10/19/18 at 12:32:26 2A39213C392F3F580 wrote:
LOL, that is a really difficult answer. I used to be a Drug addict, yes heroin and the whole lot, my drug of choice was alcohol and it almost killed me. By the Grace of God I have been sober for 34 years. I do not see where I have any right to Judge anyone. Do I have opinions and get carried away sometimes YES. but it is only cause I am Human. Even if you are not a follower of Christ how do you argue with the logic of "Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone" or "before I remove the splinter from your eye, I should first remove the log from mine". Jesus and the Judaeo/Christian scriptures found in what is called the Bible has the BEST description of the human condition that I have ever read or studied. We are all sinful. When Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount. He changed the philosophy of all man kind. When we understand that it is not the physical act of doing wrong but evil that is in our Hearts that defines who we are we begin to look at others differently. Gods word says to speak evil of no one, it says to Love your enemies and pray for them. It never says to Judge them. Do I like the way Trump behaves sometimes? NO, However, if not for the Grace of God there go I. The other Point that is worthy to note is that as a Christian I believe God holds history in His hands. Yes that means He had Trump be President just like He had Obama be President. It is interesting for those that read the scriptures... if this is a fairy tale, then the writers chose some pretty sorry heroes for the story. But throughout History God uses the lowliest of low to do his work so that all can see the Power of Him. Solomon, David, Moses, Paul.... they were all seriously flawed sinful people. So why not Trump and why not Obama. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by MShipley on 10/19/18 at 12:40:04 Edit: as a side note, I often struggle because I"m simply just not motivated by money, now I'm not stupid, I know I need money to pay bills and live, but I don't have a vision of success that is determined by things and wealth and "lifestyle" . I have a vision of a lifestyle I want, but it's not opulent or even middle class to be honest, I just want to make a living off of my art, which I kinda am, so I'm mostly content, but sometimes, as is life, repair bills, automobile costs, etc.. can be a stress but I get over it and do the best I can, but it really makes it hard to relate to a lot of people in our society, I'm not chasing the same thing as most, sure, money makes everything easier, but idk, it's hard to really describe how disconnected from this society I feel sometimes [/quote] There is just as much misery in a Rich man's house as there is in a Poor man's house. Jesus tells us to store up Riches in heaven, not in this world. I would suggest the book of Romans. It may help you with that disconnect. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by verslagen1 on 10/19/18 at 13:12:30 504E75746D7178641D0 wrote:
Interesting. If not for trump, would we have the metoo campaign? And others. Where Obama pushed social advancement, trump pushes society to demand it. Which is more effective? |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by LostArtist on 10/19/18 at 13:22:39 4C5F4849565B5D5F540B3A0 wrote:
Interesting. If not for trump, would we have the metoo campaign? And others. Where Obama pushed social advancement, trump pushes society to demand it. Which is more effective?[/quote] wouldn't it be nice if we had a society that didn't need to demand it, in response to it's leader, so because we didn't listen to Obama, we have Trump showing us how bad it really is and you praise Trump for being effective???? I mean we had a few warning shots before, Kennedy, Clinton, maybe FDR.. and since Trump, our leader, and his party and his administration, is actively pushing back against those campaigns for social advancement, how is that effective? how about a bit of compassion first |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by MShipley on 10/19/18 at 13:48:31 1734282F1A292F32282F5B0 wrote:
Interesting. If not for trump, would we have the metoo campaign? And others. Where Obama pushed social advancement, trump pushes society to demand it. Which is more effective?[/quote] wouldn't it be nice if we had a society that didn't need to demand it, in response to it's leader, so because we didn't listen to Obama, we have Trump showing us how bad it really is and you praise Trump for being effective???? I mean we had a few warning shots before, Kennedy, Clinton, maybe FDR.. and since Trump, our leader, and his party and his administration, is actively pushing back against those campaigns for social advancement, how is that effective? how about a bit of compassion first[/quote] We are just conversing so let me throw out a little thought... We are all quite dogmatic in our views. Somewhere between what the right sees and what the left sees is where God wants us to be. But we are like old dogs that need to have a 2x4 whacked over our heads to get our attention. God needs to get our attention, on both sides. we can't hear his voice if we do not shut up and look at him. Therefore we go back and forth and back and forth. It is a very slow process to keep us moving forward so that we do not run off one side of the road or the other. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by verslagen1 on 10/19/18 at 13:56:23 5D7E6265506365786265110 wrote:
I asked what is more effective. I think Obama was particularly effective, Kennedy, FDR, Teddy, Lincoln, Washington, all great men. Trump will be just another pres, but it will be noted all these movements were at his time. One man does not make society. Society makes the man. There are still great evils in our society, having a smooth talker up front does not negate that. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by Eegore on 10/19/18 at 14:33:48 "If you care to, I would love to hear your reasoning, what brought it about, a little more background leading up to this event." If I don't need it, I don't see a reason to keep it. No real reason other than its logistically challenging to maintain items I do not use. None of it has to do with religion, or what the President does. |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/19/18 at 19:34:18 5676747C6176130 wrote:
Ah.......you are a hobo ;D |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/19/18 at 19:39:47 32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
I asked what is more effective. I think Obama was particularly effective, Kennedy, FDR, Teddy, Lincoln, Washington, all great men. Trump will be just another pres, but it will be noted all these movements were at his time. One man does not make society. Society makes the man. There are still great evils in our society, having a smooth talker up front does not negate that.[/quote] Indeed..... Putting your faith, in the hands of another, is nothing more that abandoning self, and then blaming others, for your own failures, and unhappiness. Demanding others to show empathy, and compassion, faulting them when they don't, is like preaching tolerance, with forced attendance, to listen ;D |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/20/18 at 08:15:40 092A36310437312C3631450 wrote:
Best thing ever posted here!! people in China and India etc.... didn't know they were poor until we told them they were. Edit: as a side note, I often struggle because I"m simply just not motivated by money, now I'm not stupid, I know I need money to pay bills and live, but I don't have a vision of success that is determined by things and wealth and "lifestyle" . I have a vision of a lifestyle I want, but it's not opulent or even middle class to be honest, I just want to make a living off of my art, which I kinda am, so I'm mostly content, but sometimes, as is life, repair bills, automobile costs, etc.. can be a stress but I get over it and do the best I can, but it really makes it hard to relate to a lot of people in our society, I'm not chasing the same thing as most, sure, money makes everything easier, but idk, it's hard to really describe how disconnected from this society I feel sometimes [/quote] What is the art you create? Can you show us a example? My wife is a artist too. She has been selling her works for over 20 years now. Does your work completely support you, are do you have to get assistance of some kind? I would really like to see what it is you create :) |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by LostArtist on 10/20/18 at 09:45:24 Ray, just to save space I'm not quoting all that again no, my "art" doesn't support me, I actually struggle getting art done, I work a normal job, but it's as a graphic artist so in that way, my skill as an artist and technical know how about graphics programs, web stuff etc... does support me, so my art knowledge is supporting me. I've never gotten unemployment or any kind of welfare, food stamps or anything from anyone, not the government either. and I've only worked retail or general labor (not that there's anything wrong with those) while I was in school, once I got out I've actually mostly worked as a graphic artist here's some paintings: https://photos.app.goo.gl/p1RHgoVO29BjSinT2 here's some drawings (not all my best) : https://photos.app.goo.gl/RPrGRTHd2XM4Aa2H7 and I dont' think I'm anywhere close to actually demanding money for any of that scribble yet, just not very developed artsy wise.... I've found it really hard to actually get into an artistic process kind of life when you live alone and work full time and life happens with limited resources, and yeah, all of that sounds like an excuse, and maybe I'm just not good enough, but I'm working on it, still... forever.... I did take advantage of a free "coaching" session with a friend so I'm more motivated and drawing more than ever so things are happening where I am being more productive than I have been in years here's my website where I have some of my photography and some graphic design . http://c-artstudios.com/ thanks for the interest, feels good to share |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/20/18 at 09:54:00 DUDE...... Those are very good. I will get back to you, however, quickly, your interest in owls..... Where is that rooted? I have a great thing to share with you about owls :) |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by LostArtist on 10/20/18 at 10:02:05 27342C31342232550 wrote:
honestly, it started here: http://https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/e1/a1/48e1a1ae2de00cfe639ae00889a19747.jpg |
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Title: Re: When motivation becomes toxic..... Post by raydawg on 10/20/18 at 11:52:43 That is such a keeper. Its all about perspective. Some see adversity as a obstacle, and quickly get defensive..... Others see it as opportunity, and use it to overcome, growing so much more over their "lot" When they share their "life experiences" with others, in need, it is icing on the cake! ;D I still will share more about owls, just busy at the moment. |
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