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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Wild wild west... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1526657609 Message started by Serowbot on 05/18/18 at 08:33:29 |
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Title: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/18/18 at 08:33:29 Wild wild west... got nuttin' on public schools today... :-? ...and the solution?... More guns... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/18/18 at 08:55:05 Santa Fe is 8 miles from my town, I pass the high school everyday on my way to work. I know a teacher in the district and her son went to this school, he's safe. Local news was interviewing some students, one said it was a football player. Graduation is tomorrow.... information is still coming in, so, everything is suspect right now. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/18 at 08:58:18 Yeah, more guns. That's HOW YOU STOP A BAD GUY WHO HAS A GUN. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/18/18 at 09:24:04 0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
maybe, or create an arms race... hearing reports of bombs now too |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/18 at 11:07:38 What's WRONG with society that would create such a person that THAT'S what they have decided to do? It's not a guns issue, it's a societal decay problem. So, once we made conservative Christian attitudes something to spit on, here we are. What we need is more Inclusiveness Tell little Johnny that he's precious and special, just because he's able to make a shadow. Trophies for Everyone! |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/18/18 at 11:52:29 Moaning about societal decay doesn't save any lives... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/18/18 at 12:38:14 77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:
that's what authoritarianism causes, Christians forced their values on society, society fought back. are Christian values superior and a good way to live, I'd say yes, but people have to be loved enough to be allowed to make their own conclusions about what life they want to live. and I think you'll find, although yes, there are issues with the everyone is special and deserves a trophy method, that this kid, as other shooters, didn't think they were special at all, they thought they were hated by all, so this is how they got back, just my theory, I'm okay if you hate it. and there is a Christian belief about everyone being special in God's eyes... so you could at least be consistent, maybe look inside yourself, maybe you are one of the ones spitting on Christian attitudes. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/18/18 at 12:41:28 3422352830252833470 wrote:
Are you talking about a, ‘TV’ Show ? Most certainly you cannot be talking about people, that traveled to, lived in, settled and raised families in, a new unsettled part of this country. Who had a Code of Honesty, Integrity, which was, ‘Once’, a Standard of this Nation. Because to refer to a time period, and a group of people that lived in that time. In a negative way, as you implied. Would Certainly Be Bigoted and Racist.. And you most certainly would Not do that. And, “… the solution? More guns…” You forgot, “Good Guys/Gals with Guns” BECAUSE, you will NEVER, EVER, remove guns, from, ‘Bad Guys’. By Banning Guns from, Good Guys/Gals. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/18/18 at 12:53:28 0724193A3823242D4A0 wrote:
Are you talking about a, ‘TV’ Show ? Most certainly you cannot be talking about people, that traveled to, lived in, settled and raised families in, a new unsettled part of this country. Who had a Code of Honesty, Integrity, which was, ‘Once’, a Standard of this Nation. Because to refer to a time period, and a group of people that lived in that time. In a negative way, as you implied. Would Certainly Be Bigoted and Racist.. And you most certainly would Not do that. And, “… the solution? More guns…” You forgot, “Good Guys/Gals with Guns” BECAUSE, you will NEVER, EVER, remove guns, from, ‘Bad Guys’. By Banning Guns from, Good Guys/Gals. [/quote] over analyzing much??? ::) ::) good lord.... help this MNSprings to bring his blood pressure down by not exaggerating every lil thing that offends him in the slightest into a grand design of evil against him and the world he thinks he inhabits..... Edit: while still preserving his unalienable free speech right to call others "snowflakes" and not letting this obvious hypocrisy blow his own mind.... amen |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/18/18 at 15:57:36 "Almost immediately after the shooter in Santa Fe, Texas, was identified, someone set up a fake Facebook profile in his name, trying to portray him as a Hillary Clinton supporter, and linking him to antifa." Hmmmm... :-? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/18 at 16:01:19 WHY are young people willing to go to school and kill people? It's not the guns or bombs MAKING them do that. The idea that making a certain area Off limits For guns hasn't been successful. So, what is wrong with society that is creating such angry young men? How many shooters are girls? How many? WTF IS going on that is so pissing people OFF? Find WHY it's happening. Then the solution is much easier. Hey, but that's just me. I'm an idiot, right? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Eegore on 05/18/18 at 16:22:35 I don't think there's enough information about this kid to make any accurate assessment at this time. I recall how everyone had answers to the Las Vegas shooter problem 10 minutes after hearing it on the news. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Trippah on 05/18/18 at 16:25:33 Because adolescent boys have little control over themselves. Girls identify too much with creating and nurturing lives so they will only catch up with the boys slowly as year after year more women see role models go through our war machine. For you Bible nuts, it's the "Reap what you sew" plan. ;) |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/18/18 at 16:43:53 504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:
that's very legitimate. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/18/18 at 17:56:16 Every time one of these school shootings occurs, it becomes easier for the next kid to decide to do something similar. He merely has to follow the template that has already been established. The threshold for committing such an act has been lowered by each similar act that has gone before. Once the unthinkable becomes common it ceases to be unthinkable. "In the day of Eric Harris, we could try to console ourselves with the thought that there was nothing we could do, that no law or intervention or restrictions on guns could make a difference in the face of someone so evil. But the riot has now engulfed the boys who were once content to play with chemistry sets in the basement. The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts." The paragraph quoted above is from this article: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/ It's worth reading I believe. I also believe the the real issue has almost nothing to do with guns. It has a great deal to do with a society that, for reasons that honestly elude me, is slowly going insane. The link embedded in the article that I linked is pretty interesting too: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/18 at 21:17:10 that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts." That's scary. And I see a connection with calling the Unnatural, Normal |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by eau de sauvage on 05/18/18 at 21:50:41 The problem is not a specific one, the problem with these never ending school shootings is simple the gun culture itself. And a general culture fostered by social media to emulate. So the more this happens the more it will happen. However we note that there were armed security people who got shot, so it would seem that more guns are not the answer. Underlying the general gun culture is trump's exploitation of fear, hatred and divisiveness. Not because that's what he wants to achieve per se, it's just that it fulfils his short terms greed and pathological narcissism. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/19/18 at 07:08:58 032A37282037293C092A36310437312C3631450 wrote:
YOU would be wrong. I do not call just any, ‘others’, Snowflakes. I Do call, Snowflakes, Snowflakes ! I do know what, Snowflakes, call me, (On this, forum. And that is a VERY long list of nasty names.) Just because I am Conservative. Voted for Trump. Believe in this Country. And believe, it is better for a Leader, to go to the Front of the line, rather than BOW, to a Dictator ! I would think a Snowflake, would be, proud, to be called a Snowflake. After all, it symbolizes, what the Snowflake so strongly believes in. If one should not call a Snowflake, a Snowflake, I am lost, perhaps someone could tell me, what to call, a Snowflake ? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/19/18 at 07:18:40 223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:
Gosh NO. It's ONLY the, 'GUNS' Fault. After all, ALL, those, 'people',Say So. And they All say, Take Away GUNS, from Honest Citizens, their will be NO MORE CRAZIES, with a gun. Right !!!!! Hey, (as someone else said), just look how well that works in CHICAGO ! Just waiting for the report on what kind/brand/mod of shotgun and 38 Revolver. Because both them most Certainly, need to be ADDED to the List of the, Evil other gun/s. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/20/18 at 06:35:35 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
you see a lot of things..... sorry, couldn't resist ;D |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by T And T Garage on 05/20/18 at 16:54:03 6C7E6A697E787A1F0 wrote:
+100!! |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/18 at 18:11:41 So Engaging the bad guy DIDN'T save lives? You wear a seatbelt, right? You understand that wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean you don't ever get hurt, right? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 05/21/18 at 08:08:09 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
so, with that understanding then some gun control laws would also be okay with you then, sure they wont' prevent everything but are they better than nothing??? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/21/18 at 08:37:05 Quote:
There are already hundreds, if not thousands of "gun control laws". Federal , State and Local. In fact, with the possible exception of motor vehicles, guns in the US are probably the most heavily regulated consumer products in existence. In the case of the Church shooter in Texas a while back, some of those laws might have actually prevented that individual from acquiring the gun he used in the shooting had they been implemented. Implemented by the very government that would presumably be responsible for implementing any NEW ones that advocates of additional laws think might help. Think that's gonna work? I don't. But I have a lot less faith in government's ability to solve, rather than create problems than most folks I guess. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/21/18 at 08:50:11 61736764737577120 wrote:
It can't be the gun culture per se. And your shot at Trump is disingenuous since these shootings take place regardless of whose President. Guns have been around for a very, very long time. There's something else going on. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/18 at 11:02:16 577E637C74637D685D7E6265506365786265110 wrote:
so, with that understanding then some gun control laws would also be okay with you then, sure they wont' prevent everything but are they better than nothing??? [/quote] Tell me your plan. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/21/18 at 13:31:59 5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:
Tell me your plan.[/quote] Guess you will never know what his 'plan' is now. Hey, Perhaps someone else, will jump in with a, 'Plan', which does not include, a Bigger Sign ? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Trippah on 05/22/18 at 05:22:02 It would be informative if they would point out which of the victims in the Santa Fe killings were the people who were bullying the shooter. Then the portrait painted of innocent victims might be more accurate. Perhaps bullying isn't such a good social activity? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/22/18 at 06:34:59 Quote:
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but here's my suggestion that I think might help. It's time for the MSM to STFU about this. Stop making all the gory details their main story day after day, hour after hour, Stop plastering the little as*hole's piture all over the screen. Stop treating him like he was just a victim too, cause he was "bullied" he was a loser, nobody liked him, bla bla bla... Because I guarantee you that the next little piece of sh*t, who isn't really smart enough to think about doing something like this all by himself, or how to pull it off, is already sitting in his bedroom with the TV on, taking notes, figuring out how to get a hold of his daddys' or grandpa's guns. and drawing maps of HIS school, and making lists etc. The MSM won't shut up though. Because ratings and clicks on their websites are far more important to them than lives. Never mind the crocodile tears, the close up camera shots of the flickering candle flames at the vigils for the victims, and the heart wrenching interviews with sobbing teen age girls. This is just more entertainment for the Media, produced according to a template that they have down pat, and for the voyeurs who endlessly watch it, and it feeds the fantasies of the next twisted little fu*k who we will be hearing all about in a month or so. For the next kid, all the stuff on TV and online is nothing more than an instruction manual. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 06:47:45 43657E6767767F170 wrote:
I hadn't heard he was bullied. I heard one of the victims was a girl who had turned down his advances. Again, circling back to Columbine, the story was they were bullied but that wasn't true. The reality was they understood where they fit in the 'pecking order' . They, in fact, bullied kids below them. The high school society played no part in Columbine. Who knows if it did in this case. Might take years to learn all that. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Trippah on 05/22/18 at 07:07:04 I heard from fellow students interviews on the day of the shooting, that a coach and some of the victims had bullied the shooter. (as well as the girl who rebuffed his advances, which IS SAD. If you have not been bullied all through school you have no idea how painful it can be, and ranting about getting over it is about as silly as telling war vets with PTSD to get over it, or football players who drool at 30 years of age due to concussions to get over it. Teenagers especially do no think long term, or about possible futures..only the Hell they feel they are in at the moment. Ya know, pistols were once called equalizers because the smallest wimp could dispatch the biggest bully. (ps not condoning, just observing) :) |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 07:56:53 I know exactly what it's like to be on the receiving end of it. I never shot the people who tormented me. Maybe it's time for some of these teachers to start seeing these children who are not fitting in and spending time with them. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 07:57:46 41677C6565747D150 wrote:
This is a clinical truth... Perhaps why they are useful in war. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/22/18 at 08:07:56 W.M. brought up: ‘pecking order’. The, ‘pecking order’, is everywhere. Kindergarten/playground, on up to Nursing Homes. It something humans learn to deal with, and where they are in that ‘order’. It is when a group decides to ‘Fix’ a problem, which is Not a problem, the problems start occurring. The person that is Bullied has a personality trait, which ‘invites’, bulling. And it is regardless, of any other traits that person has. Observed Reality, 51 years ago, a boy’s boarding school. Out of 350 kids in the freshman class, two were, Queer. (What a male who likes sex with another male was called then). How the 14 +/- year old's knew 348 were straight, and 2 were queer, Don’t know, just did. Anyway, one of them was a limp noodle, (that person was Bullied). The other was a person, who stood up for himself, and had, at first, a few fistfights. (Like about 60+% of the rest, to establish a, ‘pecking order’) That queer, was still a queer, and called so, but it never bothered him, or anyone else. Today a ‘pecking order’ is avoided at all costs. Yes, all men are created equal, shall be treated as such, and shall have the same rights, yet they are not all the same. Just as some are tall, some are short, some are fat/skinny, red/brown/black/blond hair, etc. People have different personalities and traits. Yet when, everyone gets a Participation Trophy, they are not learning how to mesh into society. So those, ‘young’, who have learned to say: ‘gimme’, and they get what they want right now, and the ‘old’, who have learned, ‘work hard’, are Not meshing with each other. Now is one correct ? Looking back at history for 225 years, the ‘working hard’ had less problems, than the last 25 where the, ‘gimme’, is now the norm, because a group, ‘fixed’ what was, not, broke. So, which path to move forward on ? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 08:34:07 2E382F322A3F32295D0 wrote:
This is a clinical truth... Perhaps why they are useful in war. [/quote] Absolutely correct. It's why boys die in more accidents than girls too. We aren't the brightest bulbs in the house.... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 08:37:05 4D6E537072696E67000 wrote:
There's a lot of truth in that, a lot. Boys are being pushed into being anything but what boys are. Is it possible that by trying to 'civilize' boys, we are taking away necessary ingredients & experiences that are vital to making men? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 09:13:43 What you are both saying is that it is impossible to change human nature... Boys will be boys. Given this,... are you saying we must accept that bullying will happen and that some will become mass shooters?... Are we throwing up our hands?... If so,... the remedy must be sought elsewhere. Which supports restrictions on access the tools of choice. Does it not?... Teen suicides, and mass school shooters are both products of undeveloped minds with access to lethality. What do you suggest?... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 10:01:08 Why didn't we see the level of shootings in the 1950's? Boys were boys back then. Guns were as common if not more so back then. Why? Why is this a relatively recent phenomenon? Is it movies with more graphic violence? Video games? Prescription drugs? Less defined gender roles? All of these? I don't know what to suggest, but I do know more gun laws are not the answer and neither is tossing aside one of the original Amendments. And again, a lot of the public figures involved are far more interested in scoring political points than saving lives. Again, if saving lives were the goal, we'd instantly ban cell phones and save 10 times as many lives. Limited access entrances in high schools seems to be one easy step. We did it on every airplane. Can't do that as much on colleges. My guns are secured. It would take an adult 15 minutes with an axe and grinder to get mine. How about months long PSAs about gun safes? Forget trigger locks, push safes and cabinets. I like setting goals for qualified and armed teachers and administrators. I also think something like the Boy Scouts. Of course the Feds would get involved and screw it up but somehow boys need to grow into men. I realize that suggestion is ambiguous and hard to define. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Trippah on 05/22/18 at 10:05:18 Thank you Serow, was hoping this conversation would lead to a reasonable point - which is if you cannot control the teenage male mind (and even cute girls have trouble with this issue) then you need to control access to weapons that will allow him to kill many. If every teenage boy had a PAD (Personal Atomic Device) there would be a lot of mushrooms in America. (Excluding for the moment the 5 year old mind that is "leading" us.) |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 10:30:49 6C5E59484F5E49765A49503B0 wrote:
Why is it that all options are on the table, but one?... And that one is the single one that can be pointed to in America's huge global lead in school shootings. American children are 80 times more likely to be murdered in school than children of other western nations... At the least,... restricting gun purchase to over 21,... and making parents criminally responsible for their children’s access to their weapons. At the very least. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 10:31:13 Why should I listen to the people who have been Wrong at every step? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 10:35:09 4B545255484F7E4E7E46545813210 wrote:
Why do you participate here?... Just to hear your own voice?... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 10:57:58 Why is it that all options are on the table, but one?... It is on the table and has been. We have hundreds of gun laws. This kid broke numerous laws. Why would you think one more law will do something? Or are you thinking not just a law but using a law as a method to prevent gun ownership? And that one is the single one that can be pointed to in America's huge global lead in school shootings. What thing? That we have more guns? or we have more gun laws? American children are 80 times more likely to be murdered in school than children of other western nations... And as I've heard you say about the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, it's a tiny fraction of the population so there's no logical reason to restrict immigration. So can't I say it's a tiny fraction of our population so there's no reason to restrict our second amendment rights? At the least,... restricting gun purchase to over 21,... Would not agree. What are you going to do about the military? Can't join until you're 21? Sure, you don't technically own the weapons but still. How many school shooters legally purchased the gun they used? Sandy Hook? No. Florida; I'm not sure. Sante Fe? No. So would that really do anything? and making parents criminally responsible for their children’s access to their weapons. Aren't parents already criminally responsible for children's access? I would say in all states they are 100% civilly responsible. At the very least. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 10:59:17 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
Why do you participate here?... Just to hear your own voice?...[/quote] I think Jog's point is we've been "addressing" school shootings since Columbine and seemingly nothing's changed so why would we continue to do what we've been doing which is more laws? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 11:09:49 And so it will continue... Beware when Democrats gain control of both hoses and the WH... as the Pub's have it now. The inaction being taken now, will have consequences... The pendulum will swing heavy... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 11:27:44 I seem to remember Hillary was gonna crush someone. Wrong then ,too. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 11:34:27 Beware when Democrats gain control of both hoses and the WH... as the Pub's have it now. The inaction being taken now, will have consequences... The pendulum will swing heavy... I doubt it. Most people blame the person, not the gun. The only thing the liberals have to offer is ultimately confiscating people's guns, their private property. And that ain't gonna happen. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 12:11:03 6C5E59484F5E49765A49503B0 wrote:
when has any serious liberal in power ever suggested that in this nation?? <--actual question, not being a smartass |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 12:12:52 1305120F17020F14600 wrote:
Why do you participate here?... Just to hear your own voice?...[/quote] there's a difference between participating and lecturing... some people know it all and don't want to admit that although different, other ideas actually have any validity to them |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 14:34:48 437176676071665975667F140 wrote:
there were guns, yes, AR-15s as a status symbol... not so much, yes I'm well aware the last shooting was with a shotgun... if this doesn't wake you up... http://https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180522094603-t1-us-intl-shooting-list-super-169.jpg all those other nations, they are much more liberal right? (besides maybe Japan), they don't have armed teachers, they don't have metal detectors at every access-way to schools, etc... they have video games, rap music, metal music, drugs, violence in movies/tv, loose morals, no religion in schools, unbalanced teenagers, mental health issues, gangs... don't they? I'm against confiscating any guns, I don't want any guns banned, or any of that. I'd like existing laws enforced, and some educational components added to the gun owning process (I'll even pay additional taxes to provide for that) Gun safety and responsibility need to emphasized as part of owning a gun. that's all. if teachers want to be armed to protect students, I'd hope they'd embrace a training program and regiment to be effective at it. but yes, a lot of things could be done to help protect our students at schools, but they aren't targets because they are "gun free" they are targets because the young MEN who are doing these things want to KILL PEOPLE THERE, the people are their targets, not the location. The last three schools there were shot HAD ARMED SECURITY. So guns just being there being a deterrent... idk. Yes I understand there's a difference between 2-8 security officers and every classroom having a gun, but unless you are FORCING every teacher to now be a cop AND a teacher... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 14:48:28 There have not been288 shootings. It's important to solve a problem by correctly defining it. I don't know why it's happening. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/22/18 at 15:03:39 Read that info carefully, the 288, ’School’ shootings. are defined as anything on SCHOOL Property. Like Suicide, and Justifiable Police shootings. It is a number, used by H.R.C. and the like, to SCARE people. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 15:16:30 Right,.. I'm sure if you took those out our average would be the same as those other countries... You must be kidding... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/22/18 at 15:21:30 NRA and gun enthusiasts should just be intellectually honest... Yes,.. guns are the problem Yes, that's why other countries don't have our problem ...and yes,.. I like my guns so much that I'm willing to have these children pay the price for me. Truth |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/22/18 at 15:29:17 2D3B2C31293C312A5E0 wrote:
And when one looks deeply at the, FACTS. you will find. Less Guns = Less, ‘GUN’, Crime. (NOT, less Crime) Just the same as, Ban all Red M.C.’s = Less ‘RED’ MC Accidents. (Not less Accidents) |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 16:29:13 1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
here's how it was defined: The time period: From January 1, 2009 to May 21, 2018. The definition: The parameters we followed in this count are - Shooting must involve at least one person being shot (not including the shooter) Shooting must occur on school grounds We included gang violence, fights and domestic violence (but our count is NOT limited to those categories) We included grades Kindergarten through college/university level as well as vocational schools We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met. https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-versus-world-trnd/index.html so, while there may not have been 288 mass school shootings, I think it's entirely believable that 288 shootings have occurred in America and again, those same criteria.... and it's like 1 or 2 at MOST from other countries..... even if that was a much lower number, there's a least 5 that I can recall... Newtown, Virgina Tech, Parkland, Maryland, Santa Fe, and that's without even trying. so 5 to 1... that's acceptable to you? that's not including non school mass shootings, Vegas, Aurora, Pulse, Gifford, Charlotte Church, the Church in Texas and that's leaving out the terrorists' violence like Bernardino... There's a problem, it is guns, idk, but guns are used in all of those, not swords, not knives, not bombs, not vans, not trucks..... Mental illness?? sure, I'm all for having some state sponsored mental health programs. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 16:44:25 oh, i'm sure there have been 288 shootings. I'm betting it's more like 2880. But that's not what we're talking about. And no, we're not like the rest of the world in this regards. But the rest of the world isn't like us in most other regards. people are still sneaking across the border to get here. There isn't a mass exodus away from the US. As far as over gun crime stats, take away 3 or 4 zip codes from every major city and we're in line with every other nation. fact is, we have an exceptionally high number of incidents in our black community with gun crimes. That's a simple fact. In St Louis last year, I think the final number was 214 murders of which 200 were blacks. Of those arrested and convicted of murder, 100% were black. Where I live and for miles around me, a gun crime is extremely rare. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/22/18 at 16:45:17 Now, i'm going to go to the moves, Deadpool II, where a Hollywood actor will shot and kill countless on screen while wearing a gun control Tshirt on the next cover of People magazine. Go figure.... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/22/18 at 16:53:02 Quote:
ummm, ok. Just as long as everybody's clear that it isn't the sponsoring STATE that gets to decide who is, or isn't mentally ill. You know. Like. Mr. STATE mental health expert: "So, you want to own a gun huh? Mr. Citizen: " Yessir, I do," Mr STATE mental health expert: " That means you must be crazy. Sorry, no." (scribbles on notepad) "Here. I've written you a referral to our reedumacation specialist. Two doors down the hall on the left. Have a nice day." |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 17:45:58 496A76714477716C7671050 wrote:
Why do you participate here?... Just to hear your own voice?...[/quote] there's a difference between participating and lecturing... some people know it all and don't want to admit that although different, other ideas actually have any validity to them[/quote] Show me where I have been factually incorrect. You Continue to believe things that have been adequately demonstrated to be Wrong. Explain how banning a type of gun will impact anything. Did you actually believe those signs would have any impact on the behavior of people who are planning to MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE? Really? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 17:49:01 you know, before the 60's, 70's maybe, didn't we have nationally run mental health institutions, yes, yes, I know, they were awful, but it's one more thing that we don't have today.... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/22/18 at 18:11:48 37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:
Why do you participate here?... Just to hear your own voice?...[/quote] there's a difference between participating and lecturing... some people know it all and don't want to admit that although different, other ideas actually have any validity to them[/quote] Show me where I have been factually incorrect. You Continue to believe things that have been adequately demonstrated to be Wrong. Explain how banning a type of gun will impact anything. Did you actually believe those signs would have any impact on the behavior of people who are planning to MURDER INNOCENT PEOPLE? Really? [/quote] so, why are you assuming I believe any of that.... I've not called for a banning of ANY gun, just education but I'm not ignoring that it's way easier to kill a bunch of people with an AR15 than with a revolver I just stated above that "gun free zones" (actually aren't gun free, and those that went there to do violence KNEW it) so yeah, those signs do little to protect people, but can you prove that those signs are "calling cards" for violence? I think almost all the attacks except maybe Vegas, have a personal relationship with the shooter, or shooter's deranged mind. and I've proven you wrong on the Uranium 1 deal, several times, you wont' admit it, but you are WRONG on that. I made you rethink your ideas on Net Neutrality..... idk, what else?? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 18:29:01 Nobody knows how the net neutrality is gonna work out. I supported Obama for it. I rethought it. I'm with ending it And I'm vulnerable to negative consequences because I'm out in the boonies. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/22/18 at 18:42:20 12312D2A1F2C2A372D2A5E0 wrote:
Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in this country started shortly after WWII I think and accelerated in the next few decades until we wound up with what we've got today. But that situation deals with legitimely mentally ill folks. People with an actual MEDICAL diagnoses. How they were cared for then vs. now and how that might contribute to the problems we're talking about in this thread is a legitimate debate, but it isn't exactly what I was alluding to in my previous post. Having people who do not conform to the prevailing social or political ideology declared mentally ill, by the very caretakers of that prevailing ideology is what I was referring to. That isn't happening here now I don't think, and maybe it never will. But it has happened, and is happening now, in enough other places that it bears being on guard against. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/18 at 18:45:17 Having people who do not conform to the prevailing social or political ideology declared mentally ill, by the very caretakers of that prevailing ideology is what I was referring to. That isn't happening here now I don't think, and maybe it never will. But it has happened, and is happening now, in enough other places that it bears being on guard against. Very succinctly stated. And correct |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/23/18 at 14:23:36 45667A7D487B7D607A7D090 wrote:
Nop, I can’t. Perhaps someone else can. Yet, the, ‘Ban All Guns’, people. have NEVER, EVER, put a sign in their front yard, Saying, “No Guns In Here”. Why Not ? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/23/18 at 14:36:54 Yet, the, ‘Ban All Guns’, people. have NEVER, EVER, put a sign in their front yard, Saying, “No Guns In Here”. Is that an inaccurate statement? I don't think so. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/23/18 at 15:26:40 033D3C30223E3F510 wrote:
Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in this country started shortly after WWII I think and accelerated in the next few decades until we wound up with what we've got today. But that situation deals with legitimely mentally ill folks. People with an actual MEDICAL diagnoses. How they were cared for then vs. now and how that might contribute to the problems we're talking about in this thread is a legitimate debate, but it isn't exactly what I was alluding to in my previous post. Having people who do not conform to the prevailing social or political ideology declared mentally ill, by the very caretakers of that prevailing ideology is what I was referring to. That isn't happening here now I don't think, and maybe it never will. But it has happened, and is happening now, in enough other places that it bears being on guard against. [/quote] did I quote your post??? it was just a thought, with no connection to whatever the heck you're talking about now, which may or may not be legitimate as I haven't thought about it at all. but now that you mention it.. isn't Liberalism often called a "mental disorder" by the party in power right now? and isn't the word "Libtard" a favorite of conservatives? It does seem like there is a movement to make liberals and lefties crazy.... I mean, we are ALWAYS wrong and shouldn't ever be listened to. The prevailing social and political ideology is Trumpism, it's winning is it not? it'll just be a short time before I'm behind bars because of it too, cause how dare I think differently than the conservative leaders all around me. it was nice knowing you.... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/23/18 at 16:43:22 Quote:
I believe you are mistaking the prevailing political ideology of this little internet board for that of the world at large. The prevailing political and social ideology of the Western world right now is Liberal progressivism, socialism, One-Worldism inclusiveness, diversity. is strength, all cultures are equal, morality is relative, feelings trump (sorry, can't think of a synonym) reason, nobody has a right to be better, smarter richer prettier than anyone else,gender is whatever you think it is etc... Has been for quite some time. Even the Elites that are running things in most Western countries know that this ideology that they profess to believe in is total bullsh*t of course. They just don't care because they are, you know, running things. Trumps election threw a wrench into those gears, and pis*ed off the folks who were in charge before he inexplicably popped up,.but he won't be around forever, and when he's gone the transmission will, unfortunately, be grinding along again. Cheer up. I don't think you're in much danger of being locked up. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 03:52:19 How can anyone argue against the points in this article? Go ahead, I dare you. One of the best takeaways is fact that over past couple decades more guns have been sold but gun crimes have actually gone down. http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/23/guns-dont-kill-people-gun-bans/ |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Trippah on 05/24/18 at 06:05:00 Alright, I am now officially confused. Lets see, more cars sold than in the 70's but car deaths about the same 30K a year. Oh, perhaps its because although there are more cars but a person usually only drives one or two at the same time. ;D |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 09:07:53 Bottom line, more guns did not equal more gun deaths. Now, did the greater number of guns directly influence less gun deaths over those decades? Not sure. Had there been fewer guns, would there have been even fewer gun deaths? Not sure. here, read this: www.anncoulter.com yea, I know, it's Coulter, but read her latest column anyway. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by Serowbot on 05/24/18 at 09:16:43 Which bathroom does Ann use?... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 09:50:04 0836373B2935345A0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 09:52:15 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
no, sorry, Coulter gets none of my respect or clicks or views, she's extreme in the worst ways, I'm not asking you to read Pelosi or any of those, so no way |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/18 at 09:56:08 not, who knows if he'll actually give up power, he seems to think he's king here, Wow... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 10:01:28 WebsterMark: How can anyone argue against the points in this article? Go ahead, I dare you. One of the best takeaways is fact that over past couple decades more guns have been sold but gun crimes have actually gone down. http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/23/guns-dont-kill-people-gun-bans/ ALSO WebsterMark: Bottom line, more guns did not equal more gun deaths. Now, did the greater number of guns directly influence less gun deaths over those decades? Not sure. Had there been fewer guns, would there have been even fewer gun deaths? Not sure. looks like you did a good job of arguing his points right there... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 10:03:51 huh? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 10:04:44 70534F487D4E48554F483C0 wrote:
no, sorry, Coulter gets none of my respect or clicks or views, she's extreme in the worst ways, I'm not asking you to read Pelosi or any of those, so no way[/quote] You're missing out. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 10:14:34 312E282F32350434043C2E22695B0 wrote:
what? He's been assaulting the Intelligence Communities, the FBI since he got in office, He's been using the office of president for his own personal gain, maybe he's just king light right now.... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 10:17:57 0B393E2F28392E113D2E375C0 wrote:
Now, did the greater number of guns directly influence less gun deaths over those decades? Not sure. Had there been fewer guns, would there have been even fewer gun deaths? Not sure. the whole argument of that article is that MORE GUNS make us SAFER here you say that maybe less guns would have made us even safer yet..... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/18 at 10:36:24 He's being scientifically honest. What is known? Guns increased Gun crime didn't What WOULD have happened had guns not increased? It's Not Knowable. What DIDN'T happen Was the predictable lefty More Guns equal more crime. So, Wrong again Every time you people are wrong you drop that issue and move on to another, where you stomp and demand YOUR idea be adopted and you're so certain you're right. It's as if you've never been Wrong. Remember when it was proposed to allow CC in establishment that sell alcohol? Gonna be Blood in the Streets! Them rednecks in Texas are gonna be shooting people for fun. Remember your hysteria? Nothing happened. If anyone actually believed legislation to make guns illegal in a school would protect people from someone Who wants to MURDER PEOPLE, they have lost the right to tell us how to fix what they so idiotically thought was a reasonable solution. Arm the adults who want to get the training and carry. Why should a teacher NOT be allowed to defend themselves? Why? Why strip them of their Right to self defense? Because Gunz! |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 10:37:14 Yes. Maybe. Maybe not. But....open the links in the article about the number of criminal acts prevented because the potential victim were able to defend themselves. So now you've got a 'prevented number'. Now guess a number that would have been prevented with fewer guns to begin . Which is bigger? Keep in mind that very few violent gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners so by reducing the number of guns as a whole, it seems logically that you're disproportionally reducing the number of preventable crimes by legal gun owners. Right? and if you would read Ann Coulter's column today, she |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 10:39:23 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
this is a quote from Trump “I have an absolute right to do what I want to with the Justice Department.” that doesn't scare you? he's threatening the independence of the Justice Department. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/18 at 10:42:54 Keep in mind that very few violent gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners so by reducing the number of guns as a whole, it seems logically that you're disproportionally reducing the number of preventable crimes by legal gun owners. Criminals, murderous morons, don't CARE about laws. Law abiding citizens do. Laws that remove guns from society can only result in fewer armed good guys. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 10:54:22 485751564B4C7D4D7D45575B10220 wrote:
who are you arguing with???? I'm for educated gun control, Although I think it might be wise for those teachers who want to defend students and themselves to be identified in some way, so that when the cops show up they don't shoot the teacher by mistake, a uniform maybe? And those teachers need more training than just the CCL training right? |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/18 at 10:58:41 this is a quote from Trump “I have an absolute right to do what I want to with the Justice Department.” that doesn't scare you? he's threatening the independence of the Justice Department. The Justice Department is not independent. It reports 100% to the authority of the President. The President can tell them to drop any investigation they have going on. He can tell them to investigate anything he wants them to. They are subordinate to the President. We say justice applies to everyone equally but there is one person Constitutionally outside of this; one person different than the rest of us and that is the President. Now, the moderator to that is impeachment. The Constitution gives the President protection from justice but counters this with impeachment. If you think about it, it makes complete sense. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 11:09:26 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
no, laws that remove guns from society REMOVE GUNS FROM SOCIETY it might also result in fewer toddlers shooting their family members, or accidents at a gun range, or accidents at home.... or keeping guns out of the hands of the poorly educated who can't pass the test to get a gun... or or or or or..... I'm not for banning guns, but I am for making them a bit harder to get, you know, to make sure that the GOOD guys are the ones getting the guns, yeah yeah yeah, I know ANARCHY!!! the bad guys will always get guns!!!, well, how do they get guns? they steal them from good guys, they get good guys to buy them for them, they just buy them from an unknown good or bad guy, some bad guys want guns for the same reason good guys do, for their own protection. (so if less good guys have guns.. then less bad guys get guns) that is assuming our background check system actually works and the greed of gun dealers doesn't override their civic duties..... |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/24/18 at 11:23:56 Quote:
I've got to admit that I find that level of paranoia astonishing. Do you really believe that you are at risk of physical harm from Conservatives? I'm curious about where the heck it is you live, but I won't ask. Quote:
Trump will give up power when someone else wins the next election, or when his second term is up, whichever happens to be the case, just like every other President has. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/24/18 at 12:52:37 0C32333F2D31305E0 wrote:
Trump will give up power when someone else wins the next election, or when his second term is up, whichever happens to be the case, just like every other President has. sure he will.... just like a lot of conservatives thought Obama was going to enact Marshal Law to maintain his power... [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by oldNslow on 05/24/18 at 16:44:39 Quote:
Has that happened? Outside of your fevered imagination, I mean. And perhaps on this message board ;) Quote:
Well, we both know that that didn't happen. And just because a few goofy fringe internet conservatives accused Obama of possibly trying such a thing, doesn't really have any bearing on whether Trump might contemplate something similar. He won't. It's martial law, by the way. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/25/18 at 10:53:31 1C3F2324112224392324500 wrote:
"... now I want to argue against you even though I don't really disagree with you,..." Couldn't help it LOLOL Waiting on HOLD for a, 'Snowflake'. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/25/18 at 12:43:21 40635E7D7F64636A0D0 wrote:
"... now I want to argue against you even though I don't really disagree with you,..." Couldn't help it LOLOL Waiting on HOLD for a, 'Snowflake'. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] do you know what hysteria is???? hys·te·ri·a h[ch601][ch712]stir[ch275][ch601],h[ch601][ch712]ster[ch275][ch601]/Submit noun noun: hysteria; plural noun: hysterias exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, especially among a group of people. I"m sure I've given you better examples than that :P of my general hysteria at least but in context of this thread... in this context: Remember when it was proposed to allow CC in establishment that sell alcohol? Gonna be Blood in the Streets! Them rednecks in Texas are gonna be shooting people for fun. Remember your hysteria? .... show me context matters, quit conflating everything with everything else |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by MnSpring on 05/25/18 at 16:44:47 0F2C30370231372A3037430 wrote:
Hmmmm, Which would you like me to do ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/18 at 18:44:35 So you SUPPORTED the law change that allowed CC in places that sold alcohol. You weren't against that. |
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Title: Re: Wild wild west... Post by LostArtist on 05/29/18 at 15:34:01 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
did you? you seem to be saying that you did. are you now flip flopping and say it wasn't a good idea? and while I may not have supported it,I honestly don't remember thinking about it much, drunk people are dangerous enough without arming them, but that doesn't mean I was all freaking out and hysterical about it. Would have been just another reason to stay out of bars for me. like I can be against raising the speed limit but not be freaking out about it. everything is so extreme and dramatic with you guys.... |
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