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Message started by elricfate on 05/07/18 at 03:36:01

Title: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/07/18 at 03:36:01

I haven't touched mine yet, and while I'm good with electronics, I can't locate a wiring diagram anywhere.

Does anyone have a reference for the Savage about what wires are supposed to be tapped for the Dashboard/Speedo combo?

I know Dave did an install on his, but since I don't have ten posts, I can't rightly PM the guy to ask.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Here's a picture of the latest addition to the bike for good reference.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/07/18 at 05:29:14

Here I am!

Didn't you get a manual with the Trailtech Vapor?

From what I remember the wiring is pretty simple. There is a paired set of wires and connector for "Power"....the black goes to ground and the red goes to a (+) power source. Trailtech recommends connecting this directly to the battery to avoid any power surges...the first time I wired mine in I connected it to the power at the horn, and the RPM and Temperature warning lights would flash if I used the horn or turn signals. Connecting it to a power source that is hot all the time helps to make the internal battery last longer...as the Trailtech wakes up whenever you push the bike and the magnet passes the speedometer sensor....or you push one of the buttons - the Trailtech will use the internal batter if you don't have a power source that is "hot" all the time. (I have mine connected to a switched power source that is not hot all the time....and I have to replace the little battery once a year).

If you are using a temperature sensor...it just has 1 wire and you can't screw it up. I used a 12mm spark plug sensor and put it under the left rear head stud.

The Tach only has 2 wires. One goes to a ground....the other one to the coil. You want to set the Trailtech for 1 spark every revolution.

The wheel sensor is a single wire. You need to glue a magnet onto the rotor down by the mounting bolts, then attach the sensor to the fork leg.

Am I missing anything else? I will look and see if I have anything that has better instructions.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/07/18 at 05:52:44

142F2235242833352E262B34470 wrote:

Am I missing anything else? I will look and see if I have anything that has better instructions.

Awesome, thanks for swinging in!

The Vapor Dashboard piece with the lights for turn signals and neutral and whatnot...

I can figure out the turn signal bits, with enough time, I think. It's the Neutral light and High beam light indicators that have me a little confused. I haven't dug into the headlight yet, but I imagine there's a specific wire for high beam that it just needs to be tapped into to sense current.

The neutral piece is the one piece of the puzzle I can't figure out on my own, and maybe because I haven't tried to finagle it myself.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/07/18 at 06:22:55

If you got a dashboard.....the only weird part is the neutral light, as everything else wires up normally. You can decide if you want to tap into the indicator light harness.....or go find the other wires. For the headlight and turn signals you just ground the black wire for the new lights....you can either ground the to the frame....or find any one of the ground wires for the headlight or turn signals (black with a white tracer). These LED indicator lights take so little power that you won't overload anything.

The high beam light can be accessed in the headlight housing....or the indicator panel. The high beam wire is yellow....the thick yellow wire takes the power to the headlight, while the smaller yellow wire takes the power to the indicator light.

The turn signals are green for the right side, and solid black for the left side. The turn signal wires can be accessed in the headlight housing....or the indicator panel.

The weird one is the neutral light, as the neutral switch provides the ground. You connect the positive side of the neutral light to the indicator light - but don't ground the black wire. You need to connect that to the blue wire that you can find under the fuel tank on the right side of the top frame tube - or connect it to the "non-orange" wire that is going to the neutral indicator wire (blue on the panel side of the under tank connector...black with white dashes on the wiring harness side of the connector).

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/10/18 at 04:50:18

This is seriously great info. And now that I twisted off an exhaust header bolt and need to wait for replacements to get here (plus try to extract the stuck bastard), maybe I can focus on installing this in the mean time.

Thank you

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/10/18 at 04:58:08

You will find the ambient temperature display to be horribly optimistic. Yesterday on my ride it was displaying 100 degrees - it was actually in the 70's and a bit cloudy...so sun beating down on the speedometer was not the cause and it always seems to be 15-20 degrees higher than the real temperature. Some days I can be bundled up and shivering - and the reading shows 70 degrees!

I also found that the supplied LED lights in the gauge panel were not bright enough to be seen easily in daylight. I bought brighter LED lights from Superbright LEDS and installed them and they work much better for the neutral and turn signal lights - the blue High Beam light I installed is too bright and a bit blinding at night.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/10/18 at 04:59:33

605B5641505C47415A525F40330 wrote:

I also found that the supplied LED lights in the gauge panel were not bright enough to be seen easily in daylight. I bought brighter LED lights from Superbright LEDS and installed them and they work much better for the neutral and turn signal lights - the blue High Beam light I installed is too bright and a bit blinding at night.

What's the bulb size they use? I can just order those now and be done with it.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/10/18 at 05:41:28

I was afraid you were going to ask....I really don't remember what I ordered.

I would probably try these for the turn signals and neutral light - order the same color as the lens you will be using.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-4-led-miniature-wedge-retrofit-car/198/

I would probably keep the High Beam light as the one Trailtech provided....or this one that is less bright.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/194-led-bulb-4-led-miniature-wedge-retrofit-car/198/

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/10/18 at 05:52:33

0E35382F3E32292F343C312E5D0 wrote:

Hm. I think I actually have a handful of really bright 194 wedges from the last project for my F150.

Out of random curiosity, do you have any 7" adapter/bowl kits left? I'm wanting a 7" daymaker in my near future. :D

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/10/18 at 06:56:25

You can test your indicator lights before you get everything mounted - just take them out into the sunshine with a battery and see if they are visible in direct sunlight.

626B756E6461667362070 wrote:

Out of random curiosity, do you have any 7" adapter/bowl kits left? I'm wanting a 7" daymaker in my near future. :D

I have a couple of buckets left, and I am getting some adapters made and they should be available before too long.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/10/18 at 11:01:05

754E4354454952544F474A55260 wrote:

You can test your indicator lights before you get everything mounted - just take them out into the sunshine with a battery and see if they are visible in direct sunlight.

[quote author=626B756E6461667362070 link=1525689361/0#8 date=1525956753]Out of random curiosity, do you have any 7" adapter/bowl kits left? I'm wanting a 7" daymaker in my near future. :D

I have a couple of buckets left, and I am getting some adapters made and they should be available before too long.[/quote]

Awesome, save me out a set. I really am going to convert to a 7" LED and your setup should make that simple.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/20/18 at 15:50:08

665D5047565A41475C545946350 wrote:

The wheel sensor is a single wire. You need to glue a magnet onto the rotor down by the mounting bolts, then attach the sensor to the fork leg.

Am I missing anything else? I will look and see if I have anything that has better instructions.

------------------------------------------

I actually was able to get one of the bolts that came with the kit swapped in. It's a little shorter than the original, but I loc-tited it with some blue loc-tite. I figure that should keep it there.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/20/18 at 16:03:32

Nope. Changed my mind. There's so little thread contact, and that's a major part of being able to stop...

so I'll epoxy a magnet to the rotor, and when I need to change the rotor eventually, I'll just have to remember to epoxy another one to it.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/21/18 at 16:57:19

So uh, Dave...

How in the world did you mount the thing to your bike? The indicator dashboard comes with a flat bar steel mount vs the single locking clamp of the regular Vapor.

I like the idea of using that bar steel, but I'm curious how you mounted yours.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/22/18 at 03:51:16

Go to post #47 in my build thread. It mounts to the bottom of a RM250 fork yoke, but with a couple of new holes you could probably mount it to your bike (Does your bike have the two bolts that hold on a wire guide for the cables?)
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1358099938/45

I might still have that mount if you want it....

The Vapor is now on the Ninja.....post #57 on up through #63 in this thread.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1402487102/45

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/22/18 at 04:10:55

79424F5849455E58434B46592A0 wrote:

-------------------------------

Yea, there's a wire guide that's held in with two bolts... but would that be mighty low? I am unsure if the risers on mine are stock or not, but they're pretty high compared to the wire guide.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/22/18 at 04:11:13

See what I mean?

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/22/18 at 04:26:08

That is low. On my bike it works as it is a Cafe' conversion and the seat is high, and I am leaning up over the fuel tank.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/22/18 at 04:48:01

665D5047565A41475C545946350 wrote:

That is low. On my bike it works as it is a Cafe' conversion and the seat is high, and I am leaning up over the fuel tank.

OKay. It just means I need to fab something up. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something idiot-easy before I went into full on design mode.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/27/18 at 14:01:43

Now I need to hook up the individual sensors. I'm taking the lazy man's approach and putting off hooking everything up as much as I can.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:36:04

Well, thank you Dave. I haven't had a chance to get it in the road and test it, but the single wire tach went into the positive cable on the coil, the speedo cable is mounted, the indicators are all working.

I even hooked up an SAE quick disconnect USB charger with QC 3.0 to my battery tender SAE quick disconnect line, since I had the tank off and whatnot.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:36:37

USB

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:36:54

QC 3.0 on bottom

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:37:30

Magnet steel epoxied in place

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:37:44

Speedo cable routed

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/28/18 at 17:39:01

After tomorrow my gel seat pad gets here. Then whenever my raptor petcock gets here... it will be ready for long trips.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 05/28/18 at 18:55:52

Setting the correct number for the speedometer always makes me a bit crazy. I first use the tape/wheel rolling test to get an approximation of the tire rolling distance and enter that. Then I go for a ride on the local highway that has mile marker signs and I stop at one, and reset the odometer to "0", and ride 10 miles and see how well I did. If the odometer read 10.2 I know the TrailTech thinks my wheel is a bit larger than it really is....and I divide the setting by 1.02 and reset. Then I repeat until I get it correct. Once you have it really close you can leave it alone - but it you go on a very long trip you can check the mile markers over 100 miles or so and get it really accurate. You can also check with a GPS - but the GPS is constantly showing the speed going up or down 1 mph...so it is hard to get really close.

Inevitably I get confused and make the correction the wrong way, and just when I was getting close I make it worse - so always write down your settings so you can go back to the last "best" setting you had.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 05/29/18 at 06:52:47

0E35382F3E32292F343C312E5D0 wrote:

-------------------------------

Thankfully I'm used to calculating tire size since I had to do it for the tuner I put on my pickup. Sometimes more than once.

I have a starting dimension to work from and then I'm gonna run it and see how it does in terms of being close. Worst case scenario it's totally inaccurate and I start from scratch, best case, I get it spot on immediately. :D

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 06/01/18 at 14:39:28

Welp, speedo is mostly spot on... but the rev counter is nuts. I need a resistor tach cable. :/

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by Dave on 06/01/18 at 14:51:03

7079677C7673746170150 wrote:

Welp, speedo is mostly spot on... but the rev counter is nuts. I need a resistor tach cable. :/

Yep....I needed that as well on the Ninja.

Also....the outdoor temperature reading will likely be off by 10 - 15 degrees!

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 06/02/18 at 04:01:10

043F3225343823253E363B24570 wrote:

[quote author=7079677C7673746170150 link=1525689361/15#28 date=1527889168]Welp, speedo is mostly spot on... but the rev counter is nuts. I need a resistor tach cable. :/

Yep....I needed that as well on the Ninja.

Also....the outdoor temperature reading will likely be off by 10 - 15 degrees![/quote]

The air temp is actually close to accurate. It was 83*, the temp read as 86* -- I think, based on placement and lack of heat from the engine affecting it, it might be mostly ok.

But yea, I got lazy and just ordered the resistored tach instead of making my own. I had a disbursement in the Paypal account from the forum I run anyways, so it was an easy decision.

Title: Re: For those who have installed Trail Tech Vapors
Post by elricfate on 06/06/18 at 05:47:29

Welp.

The unit I got came with a single cable tach that is inherently unreliable on the coil. So I ordered a cable with a resistor, it's a two wire cable, but the unit I have doesn't have a connector wire for the ground... so the ground is useless. So I hooked up just the positive with the resistor, no response from the tach at all.

So I strip the resistor off, solder it in-line with the single wire I already had, no response from the tach. So the resistor isn't allowing the voltage to be sensed...

and I'm done. I don't need a tach. Everything else works.