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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1523295479 Message started by Brentr on 04/09/18 at 10:37:59 |
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Title: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/09/18 at 10:37:59 I have a 2003 Suzuki Boulevard S40 with ~70,000 miles that will not start. I had been driving quite a ways (80 miles to work and back) a few times a month for about two months. I noticed it was going through oil pretty quickly, but no noticeable emission of it via smoke. Despite that, it ran fine. Until last weekend; I warmed it up and took off. Initially, going down the street it died while coasting to the street light, so I restarted it and kept going. After continued riding, I noticed somewhat random hesitation and loss of power under load; not quite sputtering, but cut offs in power that increasing revs seemed to mitigate. I hopped onto a main thoroughfare and got to highway speed and cruised for a few miles, with everything seeming fine. After a few minutes, it started to hesitate again going up a slight hill and then died all together. I tried starting in neutral while coasting to a stop, to no avail. I pulled off to the side of the road and continued to try and start it, with no luck. I’ve checked that the carb is getting fuel (it drains freely out of the drain screw) and the plug is sparking. Next weekend I plan on checking the compression, the phantom consumption of oil makes me fear bad rings. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/09/18 at 11:00:09 First off, welcome. Things I'd start with: - Fuel in the Oil (means a bad fuel thingy - very common) - Fouled Sparkplug (they can spark and still be fouled) - Blocked intake air passage/blocked/dirty airfilter - Failing regulator/Rectifier - Failing Stator |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/18 at 13:53:50 Put it on Prime |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/09/18 at 14:15:28 I replaced the spark plug and have the petcock on prime, to no avail. The old spark plug was pretty fouled, but it also had been a long time since it was replaced. Is there another way to confirm fuel in the oil? I’ll check the air intake today. How would I go about inspecting the regulator/stator for serviceability? Thank you guys for the quick responses. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/18 at 15:17:48 If battery voltage drops much with the starter running it's not gonna fire the plug. I don't remember the critical voltage. Have a Hot battery.. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/09/18 at 23:27:20 If the rings were bad you would have little compression ,and the bike might not have run, you would have black smoke out the tail pipe and you have none, the fact that the plug was fouled (if it was black/sooty) speaks instead of an over rich fuel mix. iIf you have a stock petcock your overdue for a Raptor petcock, if you've got a Raptor then you should be looking at the float valve and seat for wear on the tip of the valve ,cracked or damage to the O-ring on the outside of the seat ,or a plugged filter screen in the cavity above the seat, or fuel inside the float itself . JOG, is referring to a voltage of about 10v when the starter is running ,if the battery voltage sags to that point you'll have no spark at the plug. You can check your oil level in the sight glass the level going high or screwing off the oil filler cap and smelling gas instead of oil would tell you the carb is flooding .(a bad petcock or a float valve problem) |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/10/18 at 15:02:28 The oil does smell of fuel, confirm suspicions of over rich air/fuel mixture. I have a stock petcock. You recommend the raptor petcock? Is that what is causing the presumed rich mixture? Also, I replaced and tested the spark plug, it is sparking. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/10/18 at 17:32:44 The fuel in the oil is a cause of a bad fuel valve, it has nothing to do with the air:fuel ratio. The diaphragm in the fuel valve fails and fuel is able to move through the vacuum line in the carb directly to the cylinder. From there it passes the rings to the crankcase. Get a genuine Yamaha Raptor valve. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/10/18 at 18:03:22 Gas will not lubricate ,don't be running the bike until you change the petcock and the oil and filter. I'd also look at the air filter and drain the air box if needed. Your carb settings are OK ,the extra fuel is running down the vacuum line from the petcock ,drawn in by the motor , basically bypassing the carb. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/10/18 at 18:06:13 Got it. Thank you, ordering the raptor petcock today. I’ll install and give you guys a heads up with the results. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Yoshi on 04/12/18 at 12:39:01 Make sure to get a OEM replacement |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/13/18 at 11:41:45 Time for fresh oil. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/13/18 at 16:32:44 Replaced the petcock, plugged the vacuum outlet for the vacuum line on the carb, bike still won’t start. Any other ideas? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Serowbot on 04/13/18 at 16:44:07 Well,... replacing the petcock has saved you another headache down the road. Extra oil consumption at extended highway speeds is not unusual. (Savages just gulp hard up there). Have you checked your safety cut-outs?... You can jumper them... Sidestand is under the seat, clutch at the hand lever. They can cause weird intermittent gremlin behavior... |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/13/18 at 17:28:37 What's the Battery Voltage WHILE The starter is running? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/13/18 at 18:45:11 Did you change the petcock AND change the fluid in the crankcase? If your crankcase is overfilled it will prevent the bike from starting. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/13/18 at 22:48:30 The old petcock leaking into the cylinder and your continued cranking to try and start the bike many have scraped/washed all the oil from the rings and cylinder walls .Remove the sparkplug and add a tiny bit of oil to the cylinder it will help build added compression and ease starting ,as you have no oil to these parts until the motor runs.you haven't said you changed the oil and filter yet and that is very important. You should also check the air filter for gasoline and drain the air box using the tube that hangs down under the bike ,be sure to replace the plug in the drain tube when finished. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/14/18 at 10:51:55 Okay. I’ll change the oil/filter today and put a little oil into the cylinder. For the air box draining, what does that entail? I replaced the air filter, as well, already. Is the air box the box that the air filter is in? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/18 at 11:53:04 Spin the starter with the plug out. If it's not trying to start, check the plug. Easy to get oil splash on it. You don't have to put the tank on to just get it to fire. Battery Voltage is crucial |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/14/18 at 13:20:05 Changed the oil and squirted a little oil in the spark plug hole. The battery was only half charged, so I only got to crank it a few times, it didn’t start, but it definitely was catching a few times, much better than anything else it has every done. I’ll reattempt once the tender gets the battery fully charged and post updates. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/14/18 at 15:45:27 Took out the air filter and shot some WD40 into the air box before reattempting. Tried for about five minutes of off and on cranking and it’s definitely sputtering/firing weakly, but it won’t run on its own. I have to hold the starter on the entire time and it starts sputtering and smoking a little out of the air box, but it won’t catch and run on it’s own if that makes sense. Opening the throttle gently and just a little causes it to pick up a little more (slightly more RPM than whatever the starter spins it at). |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/14/18 at 15:47:33 Also, when I noticed these hoses when I changed the oil earlier this morning. Any idea what they are/what they go to/is this possibly causing issue? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/14/18 at 16:44:48 first off, don't keep holding the starter on ,if the bike doesn't start on the first few turns , it's not going to. running the starter to long will overheat and ruin it .after trying to start you need to let the starter rest/cool down for at least 10-20 min. If your going to spray anything in the air box WD-40 isn't it ! It could block your paper air filter or pass thru and make your slide stick. Where as starter fluid will help. The hose hanging down is the air box drain hose ,good news there is no oil in the air box, bad news ,this hose should be plugged, ( use a bolt and wire tie/hose clamp) any time the motor is running it will suck unfiltered air into the air box between the filter and carb sending grit into the motor. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/15/18 at 09:02:45 Okay, I’ll block that hose as recommended. What about that thinner vacuum line-looking hose that is just behind the bigger hose in the photo? I imagine that one needs to be plugged as well? Any further ideas on what to investigate to get it to start? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by verslagen1 on 04/15/18 at 10:06:03 655542495355270 wrote:
that's the battery vent, don't plug that. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by verslagen1 on 04/15/18 at 10:09:28 5F6F7873696F1D0 wrote:
check you battery voltage while turning, it won't start if it drops below 10v Quote:
Normal, you're reducing the vacuum so the engine will turn easier, but won't start that way. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/15/18 at 11:13:38 Give it a whiff of ether. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/15/18 at 13:28:56 No dice with the ether. I’ll need to get a multimeter to measure the voltage of the battery during cranking. Would that be a moot point if I’ve already confirmed the spark plug is sparking during starter engagement? I guess it is possible the spark is very weak, right? Any other recommendations? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/15/18 at 20:00:22 If it won't cough, buck, and Try to start with ether It's either flooded, wet plug, or no spark, barring a timing issue. You can Pull the plug and test for spark and all that proves is the ignition system and plug work. Under compression the plug may not fire. They are cheap Get a new one To test the ignition/battery Get the plug in the wire And put a plug in the head. Make the battery pull the starter through compression and Then see if you have a spark. I suspect you're trying to start it with a weak battery. If it's a lead/acid Pull it Check the water level Take it to be tested. Regardless, have it tested. Ether, in the intake, should have done Something.. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/16/18 at 16:23:55 Update: Good news-tested the battery while cranking, read between 11 and 11.5. Bad news-finally got my hands on a 12mm adapter for my compression tester... 40 PSI, barely got it to 60 with a shot of oil in the spark plug hole... Safe to say the rings are cooked? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Dave on 04/16/18 at 18:01:12 5F6F7873696F1D0 wrote:
Did you disconnect the compression release before trying a compression test? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/16/18 at 18:30:39 No, what is the procedure for doing that? That wouldn’t change the fact/implications that the PSI jumped by nearly 50% after squirting oil in the cylinder though, right? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/16/18 at 18:34:12 Have you adjusted the valves ? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/16/18 at 18:49:36 No valve adjustment has been done. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/16/18 at 18:52:56 Get the decompression disconnected Test Still low? Make sure the valves aren't tight. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/16/18 at 21:18:07 Is that as simple as disconnecting the relay? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/17/18 at 02:54:50 I've never done it, but the solenoid that pulls the decompression lever can't do that if it's not plugged in. And check the linkage, make sure it's not engaged. It's hard to get compression with the decompression engaged. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/17/18 at 08:29:23 Disconnect the lever at the top of the cylinder head. Also, when running a compression check make sure the throttle is wide open too. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/17/18 at 14:28:52 Disconnected the decompression solenoid cable, retried the compression test and got the same results: 40 dry, 60 with oil in the cylinder see. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/17/18 at 19:48:33 You're going in to fix it So You might as well Prop the carb slide up Make Absolutely sure the valves are not tight Test |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/18/18 at 08:55:52 Do you have access to a leak-down or differential compression tester? It's the most complete cylinder diagnostic tool. Harbor Freight sells one for cheep. The results will reveal whether its the intake valves, exhaust valves, rings or piston. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/18/18 at 10:45:43 You disconnected the wires to the decomp ,but you need to check that there is slack in the cable running to the arm on the shaft , if not the exhaust valves could still be being held open. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/18 at 17:55:15 3D3E2B323E316B675F0 wrote:
Spot on |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/18/18 at 18:40:20 Yes. I made sure to test the compression with and without the slack. It yielded no difference in the compression values. I’ll look into the differential compression tester. There is a harbor freight close by. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by batman on 04/18/18 at 19:37:16 Why would you test it without the slack ? |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/18/18 at 19:45:19 To see if there was any difference in compression, which there wasn’t, which seems odd. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by verslagen1 on 04/18/18 at 22:20:12 2010070C1610620 wrote:
That is a good indication that the decomp was adjusted properly. But even if you didn't disconnect it, the compression test should work because the decomp is only on for a half second which is a half revolution. As long as you hold the starter on till the pressure comes up, the test will work. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 04/19/18 at 22:09:29 Okay. Would you recommend attempting the leak down test as well? I won’t be able to start until this weekend. |
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Title: Re: 2003 Suzuki S40 Will Not Start Post by Brentr on 06/28/18 at 14:41:15 Okay, so finally had the chance to take the engine apart and it looks like the fears of burnt rings are true. I plan on doing th Wiseco 95mm replacement: https://www.powersportsplace.com/parts/wis-4597m09500/overview/vehicle-type/street/make/suzuki/model/ls650-savage My next question is that the bike is an ‘05 Boulevard S40, will this gasket kit work to replace the gaskets when I put it back together?: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Bottom-Gasket-Savage-1986-2004/dp/B00WJ0X4RK If not, what is not compatible in that kit with my year/does anyone have any other recommendations for gaskets? |
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