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Message started by josesito on 03/20/18 at 14:23:07

Title: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 03/20/18 at 14:23:07

Hello Savages,

I am in the process of rebuilding the motor and at this point in time i need to get the cylinder on, head and head cover.

Any important points i should know about?

The bike is getting new
-Piston rings
-Cylinder hone
-Cylinder gasket, head gasket
-Brand new tappets
-Valve seating re-done
-Brand new OEM valve seals

I know about checking the cam chain tensor and putting RTV on the plug.

Any other important stuff I should check out for? :P

It's my first time building an engine and I am doing it base the clymer manual.

Thanks alot the motor at this moment is without a cylinder.

Salut!

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 03/20/18 at 14:30:58

The valve seating I am worried about, It was done at a machine shop and I am coming from a bad head leak and Im fearfull the valve seating may have done considerable damage in order to still spill oil into the cylinder.
I am worried maybe a machine ate much of the steel out the seats and the valves wont seat correctly, or am I just paranoid.

Regards.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/20/18 at 15:39:23

As long as the machinist had the valves on hand and had the opportunity to lap the valves after installing the new seats, you're probably good to go.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 15:57:53

Don't forget to hang the bolt in the head cover that you can't put in once the head cover is on. And I can't remember what to do with the upside down one in the corner.
I hope you kept the bolts in a piece of cardboard with the hole they belong in. And their oil seal washers.

Use the right sealer on the head cover.
And use assembly lube on the cam and protect your lobes from a dry pounding.
The head cover bolts and threads in the head are easy to wreck.
Use a 1/4" ratchet, thumb on the head, feeeel of the bolt as it starts to clamp.
Run the torque pattern four or five times, getting it clamped down evenly, slowly, carefully.
And remember
It's easier to fix a drip than a busted or stripped part.

Three Bond or equivalent, applied thin and even.
The head has places where you Can put sealer, but the head Cover doesn't have a corresponding surface, so pay attention there.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 03/21/18 at 14:17:22

Ya get a 94mm piston from Lance it'll make the motor run better and more efficiently if you can afford it if not when you rebuild it just check the cranking compression to make sure it's good and then after you run it for a while brake and should be done in about a half an hour to an hour then check it again if it's still low then you need to bore the block or the head ain't seating

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 17:50:20

It's a good time for a hotter cam.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Dave on 03/22/18 at 04:50:17

342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:

It's a good time for a hotter cam.

A hotter cam.....and a Wiseco!

You won't regret it. ;)

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 03/22/18 at 16:04:30

Yeah i dont think i can spare out 200 usd for a piston at the moment, besides its my first bike i just want to ride it. Maybe in the future i can make some kind of mod to it.

I really want to ride this thing 8-)

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Matchless G11 on 03/22/18 at 16:42:29

2B2E32243228352E410 wrote:

Ride?
And not know the enjoyment of wrenching?
You have a Suzuki you ride 90% wrench 10%
Buy my old bsa then it will be 90% wrenching 10% riding. (if you are lucky) ;D

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 03/26/18 at 14:59:38

I do want to work on it, its just I have bearly ridden this thing since it was lacking major adjustments.

What is bsa? is it something i want?

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Dave on 03/26/18 at 18:06:44

27223E283E2439224D0 wrote:

What is bsa? is it something i want?

Kids.....aren't they cute! ;)

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/18 at 22:36:08

Art Linkletter would have looked at the kid, then the camera
And laughed...
Just precious..

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by LANCER on 03/27/18 at 02:55:34

BSA .... Bermingham Small Arms. Once the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world, until the late 50's & early 60's when they did not keep up with technology and the Japanese blew them out of the water.
"You meet the nicest people on a Honda"

BSA's most well known machine was the BSA GOLDSTAR DBD 500.
It ruled the 1/2 & 1 mile flat tracks for many many years.

I loved that bike.

It was because of that bike that I first got a Savage.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/04/18 at 08:21:22

COOL info there. Thanks!

Anyone know if the rings should have a real tight fit?

I am trying to fit new rings, but they wont budge.

I will be carful as i have cut myself already but should i file them down?

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Dave on 04/04/18 at 08:53:20

3035293F29332E355A0 wrote:

If you are installing OEM Suzuki rings.......they should not have any problem fitting into the bore. They don't come oversize....unless you ordered rings for a larger bore (oversized).

Do you have a manual? It will list the end gap acceptable range.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/04/18 at 08:55:22

DON'T FILE DOWN RINGS

Are you trying to fit the rings onto the piston or the piston/rings assembly into the cylinder?

Are they the correct rings for your piston?

Have you measured the cylinder bore?

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/18 at 09:38:07

62677B6D7B617C67080 wrote:

What do you mean
Won't budge?
Did you check the ring/groove fit by simply putting the ring against the piston and rolling it around to prove that the groove would accept the ring all the way around?

Do you have a dial caliper?

Did you clean the ring grooves?

The old ring snapped off to get a factory square end to drag carefully around the groove is helpful.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/04/18 at 14:45:25

I bought OEM rings. Tried to fit the inside the cylinder and they have a really tight fit, almost scratching the cylinder. I cut myself trying to fit them inside and this is just with the cylinder removed from the motor and also the piston.

I was messing around seeing and comparing the old rings fit to the new rings fit. The old ones seem tight enough but maybe its just the place where the cylinder begins that has a smaller diameter then where the piston actually slides on.

I did roll them around the piston. I am lacking any motorcycle tools so messuring stuff is very limited. I just bought the stuff and wanted to bolt and play.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/18 at 15:48:37

I wouldn't do that on my first go inside a motor.

You might be ahead to haul the jug, piston and rings to someone who can show you how to handle them,

The parts guy might just call a mechanic up to the counter to give you a quick
How To, fernuthin..

You were working from the bottom of the jug when you were working with the rings, right?

And no, they don't want to turn inside the cylinder.

I don't think I could get a ring in that isn't on the piston.

When I did a Raptor top end I put rings on the piston, oiled everything, ran the piston up the bore, check end gap.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/04/18 at 16:10:02

Yeah the jug was upside down and I was playing as the piston would go.

I guess I have to keep doing my homework.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/18 at 16:23:06

If the gap between the ends of the ring disappears when you put the piston in, that won't work.
The manual states the required end gap.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/04/18 at 16:32:41

Yeah I just seen how to measure the end gap. Only ring into cylinder no piston involved.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/23/18 at 14:08:54

Hello Fellow Savages,

I re-built my head, but wanting to adjust the decompression starter i noticed I cant place the engine on TDC based on the mark on the 17mm stator/rotor indicator. I crank it forward looking for TDC but It will never hit the mark.

Did I time the engine wrong? I noticed when I go to start the engine black smoke comes out of the carburator/air flow hole. Is this normal?

Thanks for the input.
Regards.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/23/18 at 15:25:40

Could it be the chain slack/tension wont line up with the TDC marks on the rotor/stator case?

Like the chain is tight and the TDC mark is somewhat off?

I cranked it and it started nicely just stalled on idle, but the black puff smoke is what worries me here. It was just when starting tho then It stopped.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/18 at 15:58:32

Howzit run?

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/23/18 at 16:14:04

It runs nicely, just stalled in less than a minute due to lack of throttle adjustment/idle.

I havent been able to make it run again though. Only decompression selenoid goes off and nothing happens. But it did run.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/18 at 16:47:06

Check the battery

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/24/18 at 08:56:39

Yeah a relay was off.

Thanks for the patience and I know my spelling isn't great.

Yesterday it ran good for a around 20 seconds but then it sounded out of time then I couldn't turn it on again just got a loud backfire.

I think it is set out of time and I am going to have to time it again. Fail in order to learn. :o

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/24/18 at 09:05:26

You can prove the timing is right or wrong without tearing it down.
Get the crankshaft on TDC compression and check your valves.

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/24/18 at 11:24:47

Hello,

I did check the valve gap when on TDC. They both have little play and I assume the piston is on TDC, but the mark on rotor is wrong according to the manual. The mark is at 1 o'clock when it is supposed to be at 3 o clock next to the crankcase

Eventually I will take the valve cover off, clutch cover off and remove the tensor and time again.

Thanks, :)

Title: Re: Engine head and cylinder rebuild
Post by josesito on 04/24/18 at 17:32:03

I also get a spark coming from the starter when I go to start it.

Seems like a ground issue.

Maybe too much power from jump starting from car battery.