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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> NAFTA & The WAll
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Message started by Trippah on 03/20/18 at 06:46:44

Title: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by Trippah on 03/20/18 at 06:46:44

I can't help but note that after NAFTA, the flow of illegal immigrants reversed to going back into Mexico from the US. More labor types of jobs. The US shifted into high profit, low environmental impact service sector types of jobs while chemical spill Inc went south. (Except of course Fracking). Win win for the US - but now we want to spend billions on a useless wall (they have invented boats, and planes) and eliminate NAFTA so what, we can rebuild some chemically complex industrial sites that either explode (every year in Texas) of render an area unfit for human habitation.
I sometimes wonder what they use in the orange one's hair coloring.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 08:30:24

what world do you live in?

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 09:43:41

can't help but note that after NAFTA, the flow of illegal immigrants reversed to going back into Mexico from the US. More labor types of

No, nafta forced Mexico to open their agricultural markets to our products, which bankrupted many of Their farming families and created economic refugees who Then came HERE.
Where they drove down wages.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 10:13:54

Win win for the US

How is pizzing in your neighbors yard a win?

Buddy, I have come to view your post/replies, as sincere, unlike many who just don't see they are trapped in a codependency relationship with misery merchants, and all the other thieves profiting off the status quo, narratives.

It is a big party, of many, who I believe don't really believe they too, are party of a global Ponzi scheme.

This draw to be part of "it" has blinded many, and caused further dysfunctions in the lives on thousands, impacting millions.

I would venture to guess you have heard the phrase, "No honor among thieves", or its cousin, "There is honor among thieves."

Well, let me provide this small explanation (copied) on this proverb:

They are both well-known idioms that simply mean what they say and complement each other very well. There is honor among thieves conveys the idea that even people of lesser integrity can find trust in each other, if only for a short time, and at the same time mistrust each other, hence no honor among thieves.

Doesn't this sound like Washington and the misery merchants of the media?

The resulting of such, is dysfunctional behavior, which is sold as normal

Look as some of the issues we have struggled with politically, for years, if not decades, without a real fix, why?

Profit and power is more important than repair.

We need a total overhaul of DC, and those who direct the narrative of its meanings/happenings.

It will take folks of honesty, and integrity, who don't play sides, but put the cause of humanity first, and foremost.
It will be a challenge to see if we as a society have the drive and capacity to really be our brothers keeper, or to just create another new scheme, and call it caring......

I am hopeful, I see change, and I hear folks casting off thinking Washington, etc, holds the answers to the advancement of a civilized world.
I have shared I am blessed to work with many folks of different nationalities, and cultures, and it has been one of the greatest learning experiences in my life.
By default of believing the narrative of those in power in the USA, my reality was very limited, and without much depth, which retarded my growth, and understandings, of what life in our world really is.

But I see a change coming.
It won't be written my ex FBI agents, Hollywood, or the winners and losers in elections, no.....
It will be written by the actions of real people engaging each other, and sharing of ourselves, with each other.....
Supporting and caring, on honest dialogue, with the quest of getting to know, and understand, one another.....

Oops, sorry for the rant, but that win/win got my attention, as no one is winning, when real brothers and sisters are still losing.....

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 03/20/18 at 11:29:34

there will always be losers Ray, you can't save everyone, which is what Webster and JOG are so hard on about, they don't who's losing around them but they can't see all the benefits that have happened elsewhere, sure it's not perfect, but it is better

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/20/18 at 11:46:55

The economic facts are out there.
The problems that nafta created are obvious.
How anyone can say nafta benefited the People of Mexico or America is beyond me.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by raydawg on 03/20/18 at 12:09:40

674E534C44534D586D4E5255605355485255210 wrote:

Not sure if I understand you.....
You want to explain it more?

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by WebsterMark on 03/20/18 at 12:15:55

No, it's not better. We didn't 'raise all boats.....

We lowered our boat and raised theirs a little. Now, from a Christian perspective, from a humanitarian perspective, from an altruistic perspective; that might be the right thing to do for an INDIVIUDUAL, but a few (who would not be impacted by the change) did it for the entire nation.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by Trippah on 03/21/18 at 05:38:01

The government's numbers (if you choose to accept them) is 1.6 million illegals caught on the Mexican/US border annually before NAFTA down to .6 million after (a 66% reduction). Overall, the US maintains a surplus compared to Mexico (if you include services which seems a correct thing to do, it is monies). So JOG (and I am sure you will not accept this data since it doesn't come from conspiracy U) NAFTA coincided with the reduction in illegal border crossings.
Again, hating to muddy the water with facts, but most of the jobs lost during the past few decades were manual labor lost to robotics, not illegal labor. But better to waste billions on a wall which will be circumvented (Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall are examples). ;D ;D
You see - the Donald is a narcissist who wants a wall of his own. :o

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 08:00:35

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0133f378bbc2970b-400wi

I'm not demanding a wall.
I want the border controlled.
I want the end of anchor babies.
Do we need immigration?
Yep.
But we need to CHOOSE who we allow in.
We need healthy, intelligent, willing and able.
I remember the cries of
But Every Other first world country has health care, so try to be patient with me when I say
Look at immigration policy, prior to the manufactured refugee crisis, of places, especially Australia.
We NEED immigration, because our population is aging and the replacement Babies aren't coming.
A nation is no more than All of its People.
The sum total of America is not what we need.
The ratio of willing and able to unwilling and unable is going the wrong way.
The policy decisions have been made either by idiots and fools or traitors.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by raydawg on 03/21/18 at 09:10:59

Immigration has been a problem, issue, for decades......

Until we address why they come here, we will not control the issue.
In this nature, it is much like drug use.

Will we ever go after the exploiter, of these folks?

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by Trippah on 03/21/18 at 09:41:43

No Rawdawg, we wont because, as JOG has I believe noted in the past (can u believe this - that I agree with him on something) the legal system is in for the legal system as well as for us. People who have nowhere to go will come back over the border. We will jail them (thankfully privatized jail can make more money) and we will hire more border patrolmen and customs officers (the customs people help with the collection of duties) and cheaper labor will still available to the unscrupulous. And as Mother Nature would say, you can't fool me.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by Trippah on 03/21/18 at 09:46:00

Which of course brings me back to the original post - if you allow and help people to create jobs and thus better standard of living in their own lands, they will not come to America. That was the brilliance of the NAFTA/WALL relationship.

And as long as we have our present capitalism, that smarter and harder studying and working folks will come here so the can reap greater rewards.

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by Trippah on 03/23/18 at 11:29:29

In a parallel train of thought (on a motorcycle forum) I noticed an article in the Wall Street Journal about Brexit - and the possible historical linkage between the joining of the European Union and the end of the "troubles." The article was looking at a forthcoming issue.
Pointing out the possible problem of the Northern Ireland/Ireland border once the UK is out of the EU while the Irish republic remains in the EU.

more fodder for the line of thought that says if everyone had a equal access to a piece of the pie, the silly my tribe vs your tribe would go away.
No wonder the Republican's hate it - we wouldn't need the incredible overspending on "defense." 8-) ((or dewall). :-X

Title: Re: NAFTA & The WAll
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/23/18 at 11:59:17

Talk about voting against your own self interest..