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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Too rich?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1520811916 Message started by Shrulk on 03/11/18 at 16:45:15 |
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Title: Too rich?? Post by Shrulk on 03/11/18 at 16:45:15 I'm running a 55 pilot and 155 main with white spacer mod big air filter and factory length tube and open exhaust with a radiant cycles shorty GP "muffler" at idle if I pull the choke right after start up it almost bogs a little then when cruising if I pull it out it changes nothing.. doesn't bug or speed up. Just wanting some input. Thx and thanks to all who helped me in my other posts. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Dave on 03/11/18 at 18:21:40 The choke only works through the idle (pilot) circuit......once the throttle is opened more than 1/8 - 1/4 throttle - the pilot circuit and choke don't have any affect on the fuel mixture. I have always felt that a #55 pilot jet is likely too rich.......did you set the pilot jet size and mixture screw with the engine running, with the idle at around 800 rpm.....and could you hear a noticeable difference in the smoothness of the engine? Can you turn the fuel mixture screw all the way in and the engine still runs? |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by batman on 03/11/18 at 18:37:38 When you pull the choke out, it has two detents ,halfway out, and fully out.( fit you don't feel them the entire choke assembly needs to be replaced ) Which one you use is dependent on outside temperature, and engine temperature. If you pull it all the way out , and that is not needed, it will enrich the fuel mix to much and the motor will tend to slow(bog)at idle. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by batman on 03/11/18 at 19:00:12 [ Can you turn the fuel mixture screw all the way in and the engine still runs?[/quote] Dave ,why do you continue to make this statement? There are two outlets from the idle jet into the carb and the mix screw only regulates one , if it is fully closed the vacuum in the carb increases and pulls more fuel through the other, 55 pilot jet being 28% larger than a52.5 may provide enough fuel to allow the bike not to stall. that doesn't mean the jet is to large. How many turns the screw is out when adjusted, is a much better way to determine if the jet is the proper size. Do I think a 55 pilot/2washers/155main is proper for a stock bike, hardly ! but he has choosen a "muffler" and he's at the elevation ,that requires it. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Dave on 03/12/18 at 04:03:23 484B5E474B441E122A0 wrote:
Because I believe that a #55 pilot jet is too big...even at sea level. Until the jet is proven to be the "correct" size by the proper adjustment of the idle fuel mixture......and a screw setting between 1.5 - 2.5 turns out for proper smooth idle - will continue to have that opinion. Most folks that install a #55 pilot are not experienced tuners.......and may not be using the best choice in pilot jet sizes. Lancer does include a #55 pilot and a #155 main in his jet kits......I suspect that most folks won't need the larger jets. Maybe the #55 pilot is best - but it should be proven to be the correct choice by proper adjustment of the fuel mixture screw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by batman on 03/12/18 at 04:49:13 Dave ,which is exactly what I said. but by stating it the way you do ,makes it sound like people should assume that if the bike doesn't stall the jet is automatically to large ,which may not be true. I don't recommend this jetting normally ,but it is much better than duct tape on the air filter to restrict air flow and increase fuel flow ,which is what he did previously . The jets might be reduced in size to increase mileage, but at least the bike is running in a normal fashion, and can be fine tuned from there. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Shrulk on 03/12/18 at 10:41:33 The mix screw is out 1.5 turns and idle is believed to be about 1100rpm as I don't have a tach. The tape over the intake pipe was temporary and I actually welded up a plate over the coupler I had to use between the filter and the intake tube which was just a piece of exhaust pipe. The restriction plate is now removed and I have no restriction in the intake. If I screw the mix screw in all the way yes it does start to die. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Dave on 03/12/18 at 11:27:10 1F243E3920274C0 wrote:
To properly set the mixture screw - you need to drop the idle speed down to around 800 rpm. As you turn the screw in/out you should be able to hear the change in the engine tone as the mixture changes.....you won't hear the difference at 1,100 rpm as the throttle plate is open too far, and there is enough vacuum and air flow that the slide will be open slightly....and it provides a fuel/air mix that supplements the fuel/air coming from the pilot circuit. (I really need to do a video of the pilot adjustment on an actual Savage engine). After the adjustment of the fuel/air screw....then you need to set the idle speed back up to 1,100 rpm. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by batman on 03/12/18 at 16:07:31 You can set the idle without a tach. by finding a level road and running the bike in first gear with the throttle closed ,the bike should run about 7-8 mph at 1000 rpm, but you need to set the mix screw first, as Dave told above. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by LANCER on 03/14/18 at 22:12:07 It is possible for an engine to run equally well with either a 52.5 pilot or a 55 pilot, but the setting of the pilot screw will not be the same of course. If the correct setting of the screw (as outlined by Dave) is between 1.5-2 turns out with a 52.5 pilot, then expect a correct setting of the screw with a 55 pilot to be 0.5-1 turns out, or a difference of about one full turn on the pilot screw. Most folks have the idea that if one pilot works then the others, one size up or down, will not work, but that is not the case. The most correct size of the pilot jet is the one which yields the ideal setting of 1.5-2 turns out. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Gyrobob on 03/15/18 at 05:35:23 477C6661787F140 wrote:
There are many tachometer apps for smartphones. Handy tools for cheap. Here is one example: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.rcteam.rcheliheadspeed&hl=en |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Shrulk on 03/15/18 at 07:39:18 526C677A777A77150 wrote:
There are many tachometer apps for smartphones. Handy tools for cheap. Here is one example: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.rcteam.rcheliheadspeed&hl=en[/quote] Does that really work well and close to accurate? |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by JLC on 03/16/18 at 09:50:43 I cannot see how these apps can be accurate. They work by listening to the exhaust sound pitch, right? How can you have accurate readings for Savage/S40 motorcycles when some folks may have a stock muffler, others a Dyna, and others still who fitted different aftermarket exhausts? Would'nt the pitch be different for similar idle speeds? To calibrate, would'nt you need to know the idle speed to start with? Please enlighten me. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Fast 650 on 03/16/18 at 10:54:12 You are confusing pitch with tone. Pick your favorite song and play it on the stereo. Sing or hum along with it. Now turn down the treble and repeat and you will see that the pitch stays the same, only the tone changed. If the app works by reading pitch, only changing the RPM will change the pitch so it will still read with the same accuracy regardless of the muffler tone. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by JLC on 03/16/18 at 11:36:59 Now I get it... Thanks! :) |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Dave on 03/16/18 at 17:05:03 The apps listen for rhythm....not pitch or tone. When they catch the beat, all they need to do is establish the time interval between beats and do some simple match (simple for a computer). |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by Fast 650 on 03/16/18 at 18:17:43 You understand it perfectly Dave, we are just using different terminology. The rhythm, the exhaust pulses, happen x number of times per second. Which is frequency, or pitch if you prefer that term. The app is simply a frequency counter just like an electronic tuner for a guitar. |
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Title: Re: Too rich?? Post by eau de sauvage on 03/16/18 at 19:18:26 Here's a couple of images in this thread http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1483689676/ of my S40 and GS500 recorded and then opened in Audacity, a free app for mac or pc |
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