|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starting issues /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1519771938 Message started by Dad0220 on 02/27/18 at 14:52:18 |
|
Title: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 02/27/18 at 14:52:18 I just bought a 2006 S40 that a guy dumped, broke the handle bar stop on the left side and put a softball sized dent on the left side of the gas tank. I bought a new battery and tried to start it using the electric start but it doesn't do anything. The starter spins when I hook a hot wire up to it and ground it. All of the lights work, headlight, turn signals, four way flashers. Press the horn button and nothing. I was wondering if the starter switch and the horn button (opposite sides) are somehow connected together. I've removed the tank and checked all of the plug in connections, everything appeared fine. I'm thinking that the wires got pinched when the handlebars went all the way to the left but don't really want to unwrap them unless the two switches are tied in together. I also replaced blown 20amp fuse (one of 2) that is located under the seat. I would appreciate any help, because I'm the type of guy that likes to do things on his own to save money. Rather then taking it to the dealer. Thanks in advance. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/18 at 15:09:44 check the clutch safety, it's on the left. there's a switch on the under side of the clutch lever. it has a connector going to it, pull the connector. one of the leads will have 12v to ground when you push the start button. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Ruttly on 02/27/18 at 15:18:08 In nuetral kickstand up pull clutch in then push start button |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 02/27/18 at 16:19:28 If the clutch switch is damaged you could just tie the two wires together and bypass it, but it is a good idea to pull the clutch in when ever your starting the bike. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 02/27/18 at 18:44:14 I appreciate the input provided. I raised the kickstand, had the bike in neutral, squeezed the clutch lever, and pressed the button. All that happened was the headlight and front turn signals went off. When I released the button, the headlights and turn signal lights lit up. Electrical short perhaps? Any help would be appreciated. * I still haven't tried bypassing the clutch safety switch. If I unplug it will that work or do I have to cut the wires and connect them together? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/18 at 19:16:17 You got a response to the start button... it's not the clutch safety. did you charge the battery? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 02/27/18 at 19:40:46 Brand new battery. Fully charged. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/27/18 at 20:14:34 He got it to spin the starter motor by jumping to the hot and put a ground on it. The headlight and clearance lamps drop out, Aaand Nuthin... I'd be checking voltage to the solenoid. But why the clearance lamps drop out, dangifiknow.. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 02/27/18 at 21:01:04 If I'm reading the wiring diagram right ,when you hit the starter button it kills power to the headlight, horn, passing switch, speedometer light and the front running lights .but I think JOG is right ,I'd be looking to see if there is power at the solenoid. It may even be stuck due to the bike being dropped so hard.You could try jumping around the solenoid to see if the bike will turn over. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/27/18 at 22:28:22 If you want, you can just jumper from the hot side of the battery to the solenoid. Be in neutral.. The two smaller wires activate the electromagnet that closes the switch. One is ground. You need to hook up to the one that goes to the switch. Don't let it spin long at all, just prove the solenoid works Or not. The lights are kinda freaking me out.. But the headlights supposed to drop when you hit the starter. Not sure about the others. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 02/27/18 at 22:37:34 I’ll follow through this weekend and post an update. Thanks for all of the help. At least I have options to try. Without you guys, I’d be hauling it to the dealer. I’m trying to avoid that. My wife is pissed off as it is. She’s against me riding because we lost her brother in a motorcycle accident. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 02/28/18 at 14:07:20 Just tell her it's safer than taking a train,( Amtrack )and the avg. U.S. airliner is 14 yrs old.(the oldest fleet in the world ,as most new planes are sold overseas , doesn't look like we'll see that avg. going down soon.) |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/04/18 at 16:11:22 Changed the starter solenoid located under the seat. It still doesn't start when you push the button. I can hear a click inside of the starter but it won't start. Once again, if I connect a hot wire directly to the starter and one to ground it will start. Any ideas? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/18 at 17:32:55 Where are you calling Ground? Right now I'm leaning towards a bad ground. Look on the right side, under the clutch. Clean and tighten the ground. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/04/18 at 17:40:58 First the click you heard was probably the decomp , not the starter, it doesn't click it just spins. You shouldn't have changed the starter solenoid until you used a voltage meter or test light to see if you had power to it . You could also take one side of a set of jumper cables to run from the battery to the output cable to check the starter ,or a ohm meter to check flow through the starter solenoid when you hit the starter button . you could also check the ground cable from the battery to the case( it connects to a case bolt just above the oil level sightglass )and completes the circuit for the starter,make sure it is clean and tight. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/04/18 at 18:38:36 What side would the sight glass and ground bolt be? I assume the left side because that’s the negative side of the battery. If that’s the case, maybe the connection got damaged when the bike got dumped. What do you think? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/04/18 at 19:00:04 you need an owners manual. check out the tech index link below it's under manuals. oil level window is on the right side. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/04/18 at 19:37:21 Starter solenoid was only $8.00, thought I’d give it a try. I’ll check the ground wire near the sight glass. Hopefully that’s the problem. I’ll keep everyone posted. Thanks |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/04/18 at 19:41:25 Can I run a temporary ground wire to the negative side of the battery from the frame and see if that works? Just in case I can’t find the original ground? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 09:20:40 Let's get this right! The left or "driver 's" side of the bike is where the kickstand is ,the right or" passenger" side is the side with the muffler.Did You say the positive side of your battery is on the left side of the bike and the neg .post of your battery on the right side? If it is you have the wrong battery for the bike and it's installed backward. the large neg. cable runs from the neg. post on the left side of the bike to a casing bolt on the right side of the bike just above the oil level sight glass window, which is just above where the exhaust header and muffler connect.IT is large ,like the big wires you changed on the solenoid,and needs to be as as it completes the circuit for the starter motor which draws the heaviest load on the bike. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/05/18 at 13:34:48 I have the right battery. negative on the left, positive on the right. I have to trace the large negative wire to make sure it isn't broken or kinked and to see that it is actually connects to a bolt near the sight glass. The were four leads on the solenoid, one large red, one large black, held on by bolts and two smaller wires that plugged in to the solenoid. Does that sound right? Just want confirmation. I put it together the way that it was. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Bobber on 03/05/18 at 13:57:01 No way the battery is backwards if the lights come on. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 14:34:46 Really ? only if it's an led. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/05/18 at 14:42:02 3C2328213C2A2B4E0 wrote:
Think fried TCI, I don't think it's polarity protected. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 14:46:43 Dad220 ,I'm not sure but I think both of the large cables should have been red as they are part of the positive ,running from the battery ,through the solenoid and onto the starter motor. The ground cable is normally black and runs from the battery ground (neg.) to the bolt in the case above the oil sight glass.You need to have a volt/ohm meter and check things out ,Harbor Freight sells one for $5.99 item #63758/98025 and it comes with instructions. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/05/18 at 15:03:34 Based on what you're saying it appears that it's wired incorrectly at the solenoid? If both sides of the thick solenoid wires should be red, that means the black wire is on the wrong terminal. Unless the guy used a black wire because he didn't have red. When it gets warmer, I still have to trace the negative wire from the battery to the bolt above the sight glass. I'm working outside on my patio because I don't have a garage. I'll be in touch. Thanks again |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/05/18 at 15:09:29 factory use red wire from the battery positive to the solenoid. black from the solenoid to the starter. and a black wire from battery negative to engine ground. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 15:18:08 Well I didn't say , the battery was wrong or was hooked up backward ,I said he should look,based on the fact that I didn't understand which side of the bike we were talking about. now IF the black cable hooked to the solenold is the ground cable and not the positive ,then he has no power going to the starter but I can't see that either,that's why I advised him again, to get a volt/ohm meter so that he could more easily determine the situation ,without have to rip half the bike apart. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/05/18 at 15:59:17 I apologize for any confusion. From what I can tell from everyone’s input I might have a bad ground from the negative side of the battery to the starter. That’s what I’ll be checking in the upcoming days, weather permitting. Thanks for all of the help and I’ll keep everyone updated when additional information becomes available. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 17:02:10 Dad 0220 , the ground for the starter is the motor case, then from the case it enters the ground wire at the bolt above the oil level glass and returns to the battery neg. post. Please! Answer one question for us. Have you seen / found the cable ( black & as large as the heavy cables you attached to the solenoid ) above the oil glass (about two inches up and two inch back in) yet? (sorry one more) If you have ,have you cleaned and tightened it to make a good connection? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/18 at 17:09:09 Good, straight questions, Bat. Unless that ground is removed and cleaned, tightening isn't the answer. Know, without a doubt, that ground is good. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/05/18 at 18:30:02 To be honest, I haven’t seen a thick black wire like the one on the solenoid connected to a bolt on the engine. However, I did see a thinner one. Ill take a picture and see if I can post it. As I mentioned earlier, should I connect a black wire from the negative battery terminal to a bolt on the engine just to see what happens? Let me know, I’m open to all suggestions. Thanks |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/18 at 18:38:23 suggestion Find the ground wire. Remove it from the side of the motor. Clean contact points. Reinstall it. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/05/18 at 22:11:23 Dad0202 ,AT this point, All I can say is ,you put the battery in place and attached the ground cable ,if you follow it back it should run to the right side of the motor and is held to the motor buy one of the bolts in the engine case, it should be almost the size of the cable that runs to the starter. if you can't see it at the place I described , you need new glasses or it's not there . There is no neg. terminal on the starter to connect to! there is only the positive terminal on top off the starter! You should not try to run a wire for a ground you should use the one that's there and properly sized which is the one we're trying to get you to look for.There is a small single wire coming out of the case on that side, it's from the neutral switch ,you need to look higher up and a couple of inch farther back in on the motor case to find the end of the ground cable. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 05:44:28 Looked up and down. back and forth, cleaned my glasses, no thick wire to the engine. I did contact the guy I bought the bike from and asked about starting issues. He said sometimes the electric start would work, sometimes it wouldn't. When it didn't he'd push start it. Now I'm thinking the handlebar switch might be bad. Any thoughts on this? Thanks |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/07/18 at 08:25:45 It's quite possible that the switch isn't healthy. But, It's not as common as the Ground Which is SUPPOSED to be on the right side of the engine, which you can't find. So, if after the descriptions and explanations you can't find it, I'm gonna have to wonder if it's not there and you're gonna hafta find where it is, because that ground is important to the starting circuit. Now, without even talking about the Size of the wire, can you find a wire that is bolted to the engine in the general vicinity of what we've been talking about? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 08:33:06 Yes, there is a thinner one near the sight glass but I was told it had something to do with the neutral safety switch. Do you know where the thicker wire comes from? The negative battery terminal, solenoid, or somewhere else? Any help would be appreciated. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by batman on 03/07/18 at 09:01:45 It comes off the battery negative post, on the kickstand side of the bike and runs behind the battery box, to a casing bolt on the opposite side of the motor, the head of bolt holds it to the right half of the center case(not the chrome side cover) ,this bolt should be about 2 inches higher than the oil sight glass and about 2 inches back in toward the center of the bike, on a level half way between the sight glass and the arm for the clutch, and just under the chrome cover for the tool kit . you may need a flashlight! |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/07/18 at 09:14:47 Thicker, thinner, tomato, tomahto, If it's the size of a pencil lead, it's not big enough. Maybe you could type more, explain what you see. Get a flashlight and go hunting for a wire about the Size of the power wire to the starter. Okay, look at the clutch arm, follow it as it points to the engine. There is a small wire coming OUT of the engine, and that's not it. Now, using the clutch arm for a pointer, look down about an inch and a half and deeper towards the engine center line. The ground connection comes to the engine from the rear. It's under a chrome headed bolt, I'm gonna say an 8mm socket fits it. It's close to the rear motor mount. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 09:26:51 I'll check it out when I get home today, weather permitting. If I can't locate it, do I have the option of connecting one from the negative terminal to the engine bolt mentioned? I assume it would be what I need to solve my problem and after giving it some thought, the guy I bought It from said the starter worked now and then. Maybe the wire is hidden somewhere and not making contact as it should because of a loose and/or dirty connection. I'll do some investigating. Thanks again for everyone's help. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm trying to stay away from the repair shop because they want $95.00 an hour and I'm sure it's an easy fix. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/07/18 at 09:36:43 This is where you get familiar with the bike, for free. You're Gonna need a maintenance manual. There's a download available, print out what is relevant to the job, like when you are adjusting valves.. We've seen the Perfeshunal Mechanics destroy a couple of engines by installing the oil filter bakkerds. The money spent on tools will more than pay off in money saved paying for someone else to do what you can do. And as the owner, you'll be looking around, making note of little things that could be done, and the Perfeshunal Mechanics just want to get done and get paid. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 09:46:53 Thanks for the words of wisdom. I appreciate it. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/18 at 09:51:52 here's a pic of what you're looking for... http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20150914_062054.jpg sorry, super big |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 10:39:48 I'm certain that it's not there. The top one (smaller of the two) is there like I mentioned earlier but not the thicker one near the bottom. Thanks for the photo it helped a lot. I appreciate it. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 12:55:41 I took a picture of what the right side of my motor looks like. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/18 at 13:56:45 That bolt directly below the clutch lever in the pic has a bolt with a lug and a cable... that's the ground. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 15:30:08 I was told that was for the neutral safety switch. But anyway if that is the ground for the starter, that’s not the issue. Unless it’s broke or kinked between there and the battery and not doing what it should. Then it might just be a faulty handlebar switch or something else. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 03/07/18 at 15:33:46 05202571737371410 wrote:
The wire for the neutral safety just comes out of the case... not bolted to anything. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/07/18 at 16:50:49 5A7F7A2E2C2C2E1E0 wrote:
I see it.. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Johnny57 on 03/07/18 at 17:13:47 I am guessing decomp controller. Integral part of starting circuit. Shop manual has directions for testing it with multimeter. Page 244-245 of CLYMER's. That relay does a lot including on and off for DECOMP. Test multiple Timers which make and unmake circuits to decomp and starter. If any of it is bad at very best starting is probably intermittent. I would think the only way one could go bad would probably be to jar it as in dropping the bike maybe. Give it a rip and test it. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/07/18 at 17:38:41 Clean grounds Pull the tank Disconnect, inspect connectors, make sure all wires are seated in the connector body. Look for corrosion and spread female ends up inside the connector. You're Hunting for a reason why the starter works Or not. Ahh, first thing, get some Electronic contact cleaner. Spray the start button, Key off, tap it with a fingertip, sharp quick taps, You're trying to get the contacts drop anything like corrosion. Wipe paint immediately , Wouldn't be bad to slap wax anywhere it might fall. I don't Know if contact cleaner hurts anything. I'm pooped, I feel a nap coming on. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/07/18 at 18:06:19 Thanks again for your suggestion. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/21/18 at 18:48:30 Good news! My starting issue has been resolved. I've replaced the Decompression Solenoid Control Unit and the electric starter works great. Press the handlebar switch and it turns over. I'd like to thank everyone again for their help troubleshooting and providing suggestions to help me get back in the saddle again. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/21/18 at 18:50:52 I've replaced the Decompression Solenoid Control Unit and the electric starter works great. Press the handlebar switch and it turns over. That's a first. Glad you found it. What made you think it was the problem? |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/21/18 at 18:55:35 I just replaced a few minor components, one by one until I got it going. It wasn't that expensive and because my bike is a 2006, I'm certain that the things I replaced would be needing replacement in the near future anyway. Cost me a little over $100.00 and I did it myself without having to take it to the shop. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Dad0220 on 03/21/18 at 18:56:47 One of the members mentioned it so I figured for $85.00, why not give it a shot. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Johnny57 on 04/10/18 at 12:12:01 514E484F52556454645C4E42093B0 wrote:
I waited four pages so you guys could tell the man how to get his bike started! Give a guy a little credit will you! Gee whiz! I am surprised that we do not discuss the decomp controller more often. Really is an integral part of the starting circuit. I have been a member for only five years but personally have seen two of them go bad. |
|
Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/18 at 16:47:50 I WAS giving him credit.. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |