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Message started by eau de sauvage on 02/11/18 at 16:03:36

Title: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/11/18 at 16:03:36
It appears to be some sort of orange coloured thread lock, but I thought I'd check here as it is spashing up a bit as you can see from the photos, is this anything to be concerned about.


http://https://s10.postimg.org/xf4p9yzid/IMG_1171.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/xf4p9yzid/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/o7cgt9kqd/IMG_1172.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o7cgt9kqd/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/ld9bfsvet/IMG_1173.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ld9bfsvet/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/18 at 19:01:48
Where's the bent washer?
Can you wiggle the pulley?
Any sign of metal dust?
I don't see the orange goo.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Ruttly on 02/11/18 at 19:24:49
Most likely rust muck it must be loose,remove it clean it and reassemble with blue loctite and torque to spec.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/11/18 at 19:43:37
torque is 94 ft/lbs

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/11/18 at 22:30:50
@JoG, not sure about any bent washer, this has never been tampered with so maybe there's some sort of other design that doesn't use it? I can't tell because I don't know what exactly I'm looking for, but I do know that on the GS rear axle Oz models use a self locking nut instead of using a retaining pin.

Here's some more shots, you can clearly see that there's a fair bit of oil around here considering it's a belt drive! And you can clearly see that the oil around one of the bolt holes is orange.

I tried to move the pulley and it doesn't appear to be loose at all. Is it safe to take this bolt off and clean up or inspect this area and just torque it back up with the blue loctite? Or will the belt need to be re tensioned if I do that.

https://postimg.org/gallery/1rcu75e06/

http://https://s10.postimg.org/883gkkzth/IMG_1180.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/883gkkzth/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/o6c6apmbp/IMG_1182.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o6c6apmbp/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/wbu88v2ut/IMG_1183.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/wbu88v2ut/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/7vc2edmol/IMG_1184.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/7vc2edmol/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/18 at 00:03:26
I had a piece of gravel get up between the pulley and shield once. Thought sure the pulley was coming loose. It's possible you picked up something that made a mess I guess, but I'd sure feel better if you cleaned up the oil and torqued the pulley. The washer is supposed to bent flat on the nut to keep it from backing off.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/12/18 at 00:20:46
@JoG, you mean what looks like a washer behind the pulley nut?

OK so I just remove the nut and what the pulley just slides off? Yes? No? Then reinstall, torque and good to go? No need to re tension the belt?

Just got back from hardware store and I could not find a 36mm socket. Why did I want that you ask? Because this ... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1238458746 Post #5 by Madsen, now I see it looks like this person only made one single post on this forum in his entire life just so that I would stumble upon it and get the wrong information.

OK now I know it's a 32mm socket, because this ... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335739552

And I'm looking at all the information about locking down the rear wheel, I thought there'd be a gotcha in there somewhere.

I don't have an impact driver so I'll get a deep 32mm socket and I was thinking of using the original muffler as a breaker bar attached to my 1/2" handle which pivots a bit so I think I can clear the side of the bike. Thinking of having the gf sit on the bike with rear brake on and the front tire jammed up against a wall. Bike in neutral.

Waddaya reckon, will this do the job, without tying jamming anything in the back wheel? I don't like the sound of that.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/12/18 at 02:31:16
You should take this issue very seriously.....if the nut is not really tight and the pulley is moving on the shaft - the splines can be ruined and your transmission will be trashed.  The orange goo is likely a combination of rust being wiggled off the splines and oil - either from the seal or from the O-ring that is behind the round spacer that goes over the shaft and is behind the pulley.

Here is a link to the Tech Section thread.  I would not use the RTV on the splines......if your splines are worn then use a proper shaft repair compound that is not rubbery.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335739552


Here is a link to how you install the Kawasaki pulley - ignore the parts about modifying the bike - but it tells you how to remove and install the nut.  You do need to have a strong breaker bar, and proper wrench/socket as the nut it very tight (and needs to be very tight).

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1484806731

Be glad you have seen this disaster in the making - don't ignore it while there is still time to fix it without a complete engine tear down.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/18 at 05:54:30
I've never been there without an impact, so I'm gonna let others guide you through there.
I'd want to remove the pulley and clean and inspect everything. Study the shaft, and look at the pulley inside.
If you're able to wiggle the pulley on the shaft, that's a problem. Go slow, be thorough here.
Can the pulley be removed without loosening the belt?
IDK, doesn't sound like something I would expect..

If that washer is splined to the shaft, yes, it's supposed to be folded up on one side to best stop the nut from backing off.
If you don't have an impact you gotta be sure to get it tight.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/12/18 at 09:32:25
Cant find a 32mm socket? 1 5/16 " will do (ask me how I know).

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Papa Bear on 02/12/18 at 10:52:25
18" pipewrench  8-)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/18 at 11:05:03
I hope you Don't use a muffler for a cheater pipe. Scrounge up something that you can wrap your hand around.
A breaker bar and extension can sometimes be had at a pawn shop.
You can use this as a reason to start building your tool collection.
An impact and small compressor aren't just tons of money.
A torque wrench is something you're going to need one day. I've got a Proto 1/2" clicker and a Sears 3/8" beam.
But I just ran the pulley up tight with the Ingersoll Rand 1/2" impact.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/12/18 at 11:35:42

363738393A3B3C3D3E0F0 wrote:
18" pipewrench  8-)


No!
(You have been placed on double secret probation).

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/12/18 at 17:11:26
@JoG, I have a torque wrench, and I made a ghetto breaker bar with a piece of 1x2 see photo below. Washer does appear to have a sort of flattened edge.

OK some good news and some bad news...

Braced the bike up to a wall, chocked the rear wheel with a brick got the gf to sit on the bike with the brake on and ... it actually was pretty easy to get off. That's the good news. Er...it's also the bad news. I couldn't feel any play in  the pulley when it was attached but it wasn't held on with much torque :(

When I check the play on the pulley *without* the bolt it does appear to have a bit of sideways movement, maybe a sixteenth of an inch, forward to back is better only very slight maybe a half a millimetre.

I made a video too to show the movement https://youtu.be/thoaDkeCaF0

The photos below appear to show the splines in good condition, but then I'm not certain what they are meant to look like. This movement appears to be a bit of a concern but again I'm not sure if that is normal when the bolt is not attached.

Got some loctite blue but not sure if I should put any lube on the splines, I have some hi temp bearing grease.



http://https://s14.postimg.org/i4x56asst/IMG_1197.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/i4x56asst/)

http://https://s14.postimg.org/5c9165bzh/IMG_1187.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5c9165bzh/)


http://https://s14.postimg.org/gd46bjeml/IMG_1198.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/gd46bjeml/)

http://https://s14.postimg.org/xqegqdf2l/IMG_1199.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/xqegqdf2l/)

http://https://s14.postimg.org/v92pj3ngd/IMG_1200.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/v92pj3ngd/)

http://https://s14.postimg.org/521impxcd/IMG_1196.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/521impxcd/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/18 at 17:59:22
I Think I'm seeing raised areas at the top of the grooves in the pulley. I'd want to see those peined flat to the side of the pulley.
The washer needs to be bent up against the part of the nut that would advance to loosen up
No lube.
Clean it all up slip the pulley on, in gear, feel of it. The less movement, the better.
The pulley doesn't look beat up bad.
The raised areas need to go away because you want to have the nut and washer landing on the body of the pulley solidly.. anything that keeps that from happening could settle and allow movement. That's the beginning of the end.
If those areas are not a problem, then ignore my post.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/12/18 at 18:43:03
OK, I checked the raised areas by dragging my fingernail across it and it feels pretty flat but I burnished it a bit with a round part of a spanner to be sure.

OK now I'm finding it quite impossible to get the pulley back on looks like I'm going to have to loosen the back wheel and then tighten it back up again, is this normal or is there some technique that I'm missing here.

thx.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by hotrod on 02/12/18 at 21:20:44
Maybe there is something going on there.  Me, I would have just sprayed it with brake parts cleaner, and never looked at it again. I'm not too old to learn.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/13/18 at 04:33:40

735A56565E490A3B0 wrote:
Maybe there is something going on there.  Me, I would have just sprayed it with brake parts cleaner, and never looked at it again. I'm not too old to learn.


The part you may be missing.....is that it is not normal for orange goo to be emitted from the pulley.  If the pulley nut is loose - oil can ooze out of this area....and more importantly the loose nut can allow the pulley to wobble on the splined shaft an ruin the shaft.  Most folks find it more within their mechanical skills to replace an engine - splitting the case and doing transmission work is not easy or cheap.

If you have any indication the pulley nut is loose - you need to address it right away.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/13/18 at 05:52:56
The splines on the shaft and the pulley should be very square ,with sharp edges. wear from the pulley moving back and forth will make them more V shaped. if you feel ANY play ,I would suggest finding a product called Bearing Mount( Used to hold bearings in place when rebuilding the bottom end of auto motors) to put on the splines before  reassembly and a new washer to place under the nut( the edges on your washer look rounded-show movement- they should be sharp or they will allow the nut to move again). You might also buy a new shaft seal ($10) and the O-ring seal that goes inside the collar the seal rides on. when you finish ,it might be a good idea to paint a thin white strip across the pulley and nut ,so that you can see if ever loosens again .(line will shift).do it right,sleep at night, and never do it again(opinion) .Your wooden cheater won't cut it ,get a lengthof pipe at the hardware store about 6feet long. you can stop movement of the rear wheel by running along bar or pipe through thr rear pulley and across both sides of the swing arm, you can also just tighten the nut on rear brake cable and give your girl 's leg a rest, this will also allow you to not place the bike's wheel against a wall ,giving you room to use a cheater in a downward stroke using your body weight to achieve max torque on the nut.(use a breaker bar , a ratchet won't handle the torque)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 13:07:29
@batman,

there may possibly be a very slight amount of play, generally all the edges do appear to be sharp and in good condition but I guess it can't hurt to pack it with something but what exactly is the 'bearing mount' of which you speak. I can't find it here, is it some sort of heavy grease? What about the orange RTV I've seen on the Old Feller thread, is that good to do if there is a very tiny amount of play?

Regarding the oil seals is it simply a matter of pulling out the seal and o ring with a pick and putting the new ones in?

When you say the washer looks a bit rounded do you mean where the flat part is meant to be bent up against the nut? The washer on my bike is pretty thick, looks a lot thicker than the ones I've seen on other threads, appears to be hard to bend.

Also in the shot below, I have a blue dot painted on the oil seal and engine, why is this? is it simply to tell if the original seal has been replaced?

Does the collar [36] press against the bearing [31]

thx.

http://https://s10.postimg.org/t8gn2tmph/IMG_1217.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/t8gn2tmph/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/bieyhs1et/IMG_1218.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/bieyhs1et/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/txzff603p/parts.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/txzff603p/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 13:55:43
Also I'll need to jack the bike up to loosen the rear wheel to get the pulley back on. I have a scissor jack and I was wondering the best spot to jack the bike. How about that strange plate under the bike? Or would the bottom of the swing arm be OK, it has a flat surface.

http://https://s10.postimg.org/b38a2c4th/IMG_1219_4.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/b38a2c4th/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/yu7nkgcqd/IMG_1220_4.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/yu7nkgcqd/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/j8qc0i8hx/IMG_1221_2.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j8qc0i8hx/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by verslagen1 on 02/13/18 at 14:08:48
Put it under the muffler support arm.
It's pretty stable under there and it leans over on the kickstand.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 14:18:31
@verslagen1

OK will do. Do you reckon this is going to need a new seal or would the leak just have been because the bolt was not tight.

I'm finding it difficult to tell if there's any forward back play on the splines, if I do the nut up hand tight, then there's it feels like there may be very slight play, but I'm not sure as to what to do about this as I've seen RTV mentioned but then I've seen not to use that. Or maybe that was if the play was excessive.

So if there is very slight play because you can see from the photos that that the splines seem pretty good, should I use some RTV or not?

Also regarding the o ring part number 37 in my previous post, how do you get to that, because it seems that the spacer 36 does not just come out easily.

thx

http://https://s10.postimg.org/kdke5xczd/spline-parts.jpg

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/13/18 at 14:36:11
Loctite- bearing mount stick-item #39105 ,RTV is to soft ,grease is the worst ,both will allow continued movement and wear.
    Your washer does not look stock. It should have square teeth inside that lock into the spline just as the pulley does ,so when the edge is bent up it doesn't allow any movement of the nut.
   the spacer is being held to the shaft by the o-ring , it fits in a groove cut inside the spacer , it may be better to pull the outer seal first.
    the blue dot is just a factory inspection mark ,their found all over the bike .

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/13/18 at 14:53:58
correction Loctite item # 39150

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 15:08:38
@batman,

I can't find that stick here in Australia but I have found this...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Loctite-620-Retaining-Compound/323016078577

Does this look like the right stuff?

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802627584001

I've ordered the seal and o ring as well as a new washer, hopefully the new washer will be thinner because I can't see how I'm going to bend the current one in that small space it's so thick.

What is the best way to get the oil seal out. I have a pointy pick tool but this seal is hard to budge.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/13/18 at 17:49:55
To bend the washer....I find it easiest to use the big Channel Lock pliers. The photo you took of your spacer shows it was not bent nearly far enough...it should be flat against side of the nut.

The metal spacer behind the pulley (on the shaft) just pulls out....it is not attached with anything but may be snug.

When the sleeve is out - the oil seal should be easy to pry out. (Once you have removed the screws that hold in the seal retainer).

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 18:33:11
@Dave, OK thanks for that info, got the sleeve and seal out. The o ring in the sleeve looked in poor condition, and the oil seal had welded a little bit to the sleeve too, not a lot but I had to scrape it off with a bit of superfine 00 wet and dry.

Should have all the seals tomorrow so now I just have to find out if the Loctite 620 retaining compound is what I should put on the spline. But I'm also a bit worried that this will make it very difficult to get the pulley off again.

Maybe I should just leave that off? How much clockwise and counter clockwise lash should there be when the pulley is on the splines and the bolt is done up hand tight? Seeing as it's metal to metal there has to be some lash surely?

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by badwolf on 02/13/18 at 18:37:53
Don't call him surely!

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 18:44:51
I see the stick is also labeled 609

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802648195073

At any rate both the 609 and 620 are anaerobic setting with 0.12mm gap so they don't look like the right stuff.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/13/18 at 21:37:09
Any product you use should release by using about 500f degrees -260c)of heat (a min. or two with a torch,which won't begin to hurt metal).You might check around shops that rebuild motors ,and ask what product they use.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/13/18 at 23:00:54
@Batman,

EDIT: I've just gone out to check the fitting again. This time I put the pulley on the spline and held the pulley still against the engine. Then I tried to turn  spline drive shaft and was not able to move it clockwise/anticlockwise at all. This would tend to indicate that there is no need for any other substance here as it does not appear to be worn. I think before I was confusing the sideways movement of the pulley

Or should this have something like the loctite 620 retaining compound, even when the shaft and pulley are new?

technical Data: loctite 620 retaining compound
Typical applications: High temperature
Viscosity: 8,500cP
Cure Time: Fixture - 30 minutes Full - 24 hours
Max gap fill: 0.38 mm
Temperature resistance: 232°C
Shear strength: 26N/mm2

More EDIT:

620 is hard to find but the 609 looks more available. It's recommended for pulleys and can take 150șC so will be easier to get off. I'm just trying to find an actual shop that sells it so I don't have to wait for a week!

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by hotrod on 02/14/18 at 02:32:15
Is it possible that this orange stuff is just anti-seize compound, overused by a previous owner ?  I have a can of it and it looks like the same color.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/14/18 at 11:02:06
You could be right the old anti-seize was copper colored ,and the lock washer is not stock Suzuki ,maybe a PO was there before ,and was silly enough to use it.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/14/18 at 13:50:19
I can say for certain that this bike is stock, it was 10 months old and only had 500 miles on it when I bought it. The owner bought it on a whim but hardly ever rode it. It just had cosmetic mods, i.e. removed decals and rear footpegs.

The threads did have orange stuff in them which I had to chase with a pin, it's not rust. Whatever it is, it's a factory job, but then I don't know how much assembling they do in Australia when they pull these out of the crates. I'll be picking up the parts today so I'll ask them about it. btw, found a shop that sells the loctite 609 right next door to the suzuki shop!


6261746D616E3438000 wrote:
You could be right the old anti-seize was copper colored ,and the lock washer is not stock Suzuki ,maybe a PO was there before ,and was silly enough to use it.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/18 at 14:13:45
was 10 months old and only had 500 miles on it when I bought it. The owner bought it on a whim but hardly ever rode it. It

I didn't see any antiseize on mine.
I can't imagine in that amount of time the P.O. pulled that nut and changed the washer AND found one to put on that engaged the shaft splines.
You can flatten the edge of the washer and get rid of the little bend on one edge of the washer and give it a slight bend that will make getting under it easier and orient it to make folding it up against the nut easy.
Was that belt Stupid tight
I don't understand how a seal could crap out in under a thousand miles.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/14/18 at 14:59:50
JoG,

I've ordered a new one anyway hoping for something that is a bit thinner like the ones I've seen here they do seem thinner but maybe not. We put as much milage on it in two weeks as it had in 10 months. So far it has 22,000kms after 18 months. So the seal lasted about 20K kms. Still that does seem a bit early.

BTW, you know the playing card on the spokes sound that you get when pushing the bike in neutral if the spline bolt is not done up to proper torque, well I was wondering what frazactly is causing that sound. Is it something to do with the teeth on the belt?

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/18 at 15:34:08
The belt teeth have to fall into the pulley grooves and can make noise.
You can put Gulf canning wax on the belt and see if the sound changes.
Look for the canning supplies at the grocery store.
Or, talcum power or, foot powder would probably work.wouldn't want to get those wet, yukk.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/14/18 at 17:21:55
That washer looks like the current factory one - the early ones had flat edges.  The crimp however doesn't look like any factory crimp that I have ever seen - but I have never seen what the factory does to the cupped version of the washer.  (Maybe somebody else with a newer model can verify what the factor does with the newer style lock washer).

Since we are discussing belt tension....don't over do it.  A bit loose is better than a bit tight.  You should be able to twist the bottom side of the belt 90 degrees just using your thumb and index finger.  The belt should not be so tight it vibrates like a banjo string......a little up/down movement is fine.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/14/18 at 17:42:50
Say what you will , the factory never used anything on the splines ,their a metal to metal fit ,and that is not a Suzuki Savage washer ,their perfectly flat ,with no lip of any kind , but isn't it "funny." that the washer on the Suzuki SV-650 does ! the PO was there before you ,and the parts counter guy heard Suzuki 650 and sold him the wrong one.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/18 at 18:20:52
I wonder why someone would be in there with so few miles..
But I sure can't argue with Adam West.

I'd clean and dry pulley and splines and test fit them.
Have you checked out the distortion at the top of the grooves on the pulley?

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/14/18 at 18:28:57

76756079757A202C140 wrote:
that is not a Suzuki Savage washer ,their perfectly flat ,with no lip of any kind


Batman:

The newest version of the "factory" lock washer does have the curved lip.....the photo below shows what the factory Suzuki lock washer that I include with the machined pulleys looks like - the edges are curved and I believe they do that to make it easier to get the edge up so you can crimp the washer.  If you order a new lock washer for your Suzuki Savage.....this is the washer you will get.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2cqecfs.jpg

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/14/18 at 18:58:34
I did see that the part number had changed, and likely because of the lip ,but are the two washer the same thickness ,why was the washer on his bike so hard to bend flat against the nut? why are there marks on the face of his pulley from getting it off? or I maybe nuts? maybe the lip makes them harder to bend.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/14/18 at 22:06:37
JoG, yes cleaned everything and dried, all looks good pulley goes on nice, got the 609 Loctite and while I probably can get away without it I may as well put a bit on, it releases at 150șC and the bearing and gear specialist shop I got it from said it would be good for the pulley and splines.

New washer is the same, as mentioned already. Gonna assemble it all now.

BTW check out the line on the washer side of the pulley which matches the line on the washer! It looks like the line is cast on the pulley and transferred to the washer as it's more pronounced on the pulley.

I can say the OP definitely never opened this up, in fact I'm pretty sure he never opened up the plastic cap on the tire valves! seeing as it was at 18lb when I bought it. No wonder it was handling like a pig on the way home.

http://https://s10.postimg.org/a5tl4tzlh/IMG_1224.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/a5tl4tzlh/)

http://https://s10.postimg.org/3s4i1kmzp/IMG_1225.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3s4i1kmzp/)

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/15/18 at 00:07:22

Got the seal and spacer in but it's too dark to finish tonight. I'm not able to push the back wheel very far forward so this could still be tricky for me to get the pulley on.

Any tips on the best way to do this, I assume that it's best to have the belt on the back pulley first and then put the front pulley on with the belt attached. Is this the right way to do this? Or is it best to have the belt over the front and remove the rear wheel axle?

thx

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/15/18 at 03:17:40
That flat mark on the pulley is not cast....somebody did that with a chisel and a hammer.  I have never seen the factory do something like that.....it is a mystery who did it.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/15/18 at 09:39:51
EDS ,I 'd put the belt on the forward pulley first, it might be a good idea to remove the left shock ( the right shock will support the bike ) ,allowing you to then ease the belt over the rear pulley by rotating the wheel (with the axle moved all the way forward)and pushing on the belt .You must be able to do all this, and torque the pulley nut in the 30 min. allowed by the 609 before it sets. good luck!

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/15/18 at 13:11:18
The easiest way to get the front pulley mounted....is too loosen the rear axle and loosen the adjusters to take the tension off the pulleys.  Leave the adjusting lock nuts where they were and you can get the adjusters where they where.....or just look at the index marks on the sides of the swing arm and but it back in the same place....or measure how far the adjusting screws stick out the back.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/15/18 at 17:56:15
I had a bit of a moment yesterday before I discovered it's not as easy as I thought, I put the 609 then discovered that the rear axle bolt is 24mm not 22mm, so I had to pull the pulley off and clean it up.

However I did try loosening the axle but it's already pretty far forward, there's another tick mark but I can't seem to get it to go any more forward.

I'll do a dry run tonight (it's over 100F here and it's even hotter in the shed) to make sure I can get it all assembled in time and I'll get back here if I'm having a problem. Otherwise if all goes well I'll fit it tomorrow before sunrise   when it will be a cool 74F

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/16/18 at 12:37:07

152E2334252932342F272A35460 wrote:
That flat mark on the pulley is not cast....somebody did that with a chisel and a hammer.  I have never seen the factory do something like that.....it is a mystery who did it.


Dave ,what's the mystery? the bike had only one PO. For some unknown reason the pulley let loose ,and he took the pulley off ,applied anti-seize and put it back on using a chisel to bend the washer. Knowing the bike was leaking oil ,but not knowing the seal was damaged he then parked it for the remainder of ten months and then sold it.
       Next mystery, why is there an O-ring and collar? why wasn't the outside seal made larger so it could ride directly on the shaft ? I believe the answer is heat. the outer seal has to deal with shaft speeds of 5000 +rpm ,and I'm guessing that it must be made of a soft silicon based rubber ,that won't handle heat. The shaft and gears are bathed in oil at least 270 degrees ,the heat travels down the shaft until it reaches the pulley and nut.(hot runs to cold) . The collar jammed between the bearing and the pulley and spaced away from the shaft by the O-ring does not contact the shaft therefore the outer seal is protected from this heat. the pulley is not ,and is why I advised using Bearing mount (good to 500 F )rather than 609 (at 150F). Misalignment of the collar due to the pulley being loose also accounts for the damage found on the seal and O-ring  , it caused the O-ring to be pulled from the groove ( It is normally fixed in place due to it turning the same speed as the shaft and collar),and this allowed the collar to touch the shaft and transmit heat that melted some the seal ,which was found stuck to the outside of the collar.Which is why I said he should change the seals while he was at it.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by Dave on 02/17/18 at 11:31:57

7B786D7478772D21190 wrote:
 Next mystery, why is there an O-ring and collar? why wasn't the outside seal made larger so it could ride directly on the shaft ?


I believe the reason they use the collar is to allow the inner bearing race to be captured between pulley and a shoulder on the shaft.  This guarantees that the shaft doesn't ever move on the bearing.....the bearing race is the only thing that turns.  Both axles have a similar sleeve on each end to capture/squeeze the inner bearing race, and the seals run on the collar.....and I believe the clutch basket has a similar sleeve (but no seal) on the input shaft.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by eau de sauvage on 02/17/18 at 17:52:35
OK it's all back together, I took the bolt off a second time to clean up and retorque as I wasn't happy with it. All seems good, belt is not riding to one side on the rear pulley. No sound at all when wheeling it in neutral. However I did mangle the lock washer getting it against the nut, but it will do the job.

Oh yeah you'll be happy to know I got a 30" breaker bar for only $30 AUD, it's quite the weapon I can tell you.


@Batman, I've said it before and I'll say it again, the OP did not remove the pulley. He did not remove the tyre valve caps to put air in it. It was an impulse buy from someone who got caught up in the romance of the idea.

Title: Re: Orange crap spraying from front pully
Post by batman on 02/18/18 at 00:06:45
Well it was just a story based on my theory , but it still leaves the question of how part of the outer seal was stuck to the collar.

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