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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W40? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1512488381 Message started by kylejang on 12/05/17 at 07:39:41 |
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Title: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W40? Post by kylejang on 12/05/17 at 07:39:41 Hi there. I have 10W30 engine oil from previous vehicle(car) and I have a lot 10W30(bought from costco). Is it safe to use 10W30 instead 10W40? I checked oil chart and found 10W40 is designed to use higher temperature than 10W30. I live in Canada. Thank you all for in advance for answering my question. Have a good day |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/05/17 at 08:59:40 Do not use an automotive oil in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. Automotive oils use additives to improve fuel economy. These same additives cause clutch slippage. Use a motorcycle specific oil designed for wet clutches or an oil like Shell Rotella T4 15-40 |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Ruttly on 12/05/17 at 10:07:12 No it is not ! Just what Gary said above ! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/05/17 at 10:17:32 Ditto. And you are new so probably not following the recent oil thread, so make sure you get the Rotella T4 and not the new T6. The old T6 was ok, but the new T6 has friction modifiers added that are not good for the wet clutch but the new T4 formulation does not have the friction modifiers and is acceptable. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by batman on 12/05/17 at 11:16:31 It's sold in 1 gal jugs, and don't be swayed by the fact that it says" diesel" on the jug. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/05/17 at 11:34:09 The new Rotella T6 oil (CK-4) does not have friction modifiers, the previous generation (CJ-4) did. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by SALB on 12/05/17 at 11:55:03 The owners manual says 10w-30 is acceptable at certain temperatures, but unless you're regulary starting under 25 farenheight, there's really no need. The manual also requires use of oil with an JASO MA rating for wet cluches. Our bikes also like high zddp levels because of the flat tappet cam design. Rotella T4 covers all the bases execpt extreme cold. ;) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/05/17 at 12:21:17 In my S40 I use T6 (CK-4) synthetic 5W-40, which has Zinc and is JASO MA/MA2 rated. I live in Colorado, but I don't need the cold temperature benefit of that oil as I am very unlikely to go riding if the temperature is below 40 F. I prefer using synthetic motor oil in all my vehicles. Just personal preference, and I am not trying to start an "oil war"! I am sure T4 is fine, and has the benefit of being cheaper. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Ruttly on 12/05/17 at 19:27:57 Slowly I turn Step by step Inch by inch Did someone say ? OIL WAR |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 12/06/17 at 06:11:47 3D3A2B39232722223D4E0 wrote:
------------- Don't you ave that backwards? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/06/17 at 06:59:20 203935343D3F3E243225333B352935500 wrote:
------------- Don't you ave that backwards? [/quote] Nope...sounds forward to me. The T4 is fine.....the new formula for the T6 synthetic has too much moly and is causing clutch slippage in some bikes. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 07:07:03 5A616C7B6A667D7B6068657A090 wrote:
------------- Don't you ave that backwards? [/quote] Nope...sounds forward to me. The T4 is fine.....the new formula for the T6 synthetic has too much moly and is causing clutch slippage in some bikes.[/quote] ;) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 12/06/17 at 07:15:02 I am talking about the two different T6's, not the T4 vs. T6. From what I read, the NEW T6 is ok due to its removal of the Moly. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/06/17 at 07:34:18 6A737F7E7775746E786F79717F637F1A0 wrote:
Nope....the new T6 is the one with the "more moly". |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/06/17 at 07:59:34 Reading test results previously posted by PapaBear, I thought that T6 5W-40 (CK4) had 1199 ppm Zinc and no Moly, while T6 5W-40 (CJ4/SM) had 1390 ppm Zinc and 71 ppm Moly. The CJ-4 rating is the older one. If I got that the wrong way around, I am screwed as I recently changed the oil in my S40 from CJ-4 to CK-4. I find it strange both are JASO MA rated if one is going to be unsuitable for wet clutches. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by norm92de on 12/06/17 at 08:57:52 JLC, Don't feel bad I am as confused as you are. Why two different T6s??? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by batman on 12/06/17 at 09:12:31 JLC , I believe you're correct ,I think Dave is mistaken . |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by cygnet on 12/06/17 at 10:17:03 I have said it be for and I will say it again, I use the new T-6 in a 2017 S40 and have NO clutch slippage. As far as using a 10-30 in Canada (I live in Calgary) you might run into some problems in the summer if you are on the highway, but if you are just running around town then I think you would be fine, Just my .02. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 12:51:32 Ok...below is an email stolen from another MC thread. However, see the image provided from BITOG where they did the analysis on the old and new T6. Per the post where I took the image comparison, he states that CJ-4 is the left column vs CK-4 in the right column. The following is from an Email from SHELL: We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4. All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA." If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950. Thank you for your interest in Shell products. Richard Moore Staff Engineer Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc. Westhollow Technology Center PO Box 4327 Houston, TX 77210 United States of America So, what does this all mean to you people (most of you) smarter than me? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/06/17 at 13:17:50 I have posted that here repeatedly. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 13:41:30 2A2B24252627202122130 wrote:
Thought it was floating around here somewhere before. Stumbled on it reading another article outside of ss.com and thought I would throw it in here for good measure just in case. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/06/17 at 14:35:48 4447524B4748121E260 wrote:
I think there is an apple/oranges thing going on here. There was an "old" Rotella T6 that we had used for years, and it worked fine in the Savage. It was rated CJ-4 and was also MA rated for motorcycles. It came in the "old squatty" bottle. Recently the "new" Rotella T6 came out and it was a reformulated version of the CJ-4 we had been using, and it is in the taller redesigned bottle. The amount of moly in the oil was increased, and some long term users of T6 started to experience clutch slippage issues. (If you can use this oil and not have a slippy clutch....great!) And now comes along another grade of oil....a CK-4 rated synthetic oil.....and just to confuse us they are also calling this oil T6 even though they already have a T6. It is not yet available in any store or truck stop I have seen - it is in a shorter bottle than the CJ-4 rated T6....and evidently the only reason it is not rated for motorcycle use is that the exceeds the alowable limit of phosporous....but it is alright for use in wet clutches....and it has less moly than the CJ-4 rated T6. If you can find it - it is most likely going to be the better T6 for the Savage as it has less moly and more ZDDP. So we can avoid this confusion in the future....what are you wanting to call the 3 versions of T6 to avoid more confusion? We have the "original" CJ-4 rated T6, the "new" reformulated CJ-4 rated T6, and a completely new CK-4 rated T6. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 14:48:22 Old CJ4, reformulated CJ4, and new CK4? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 14:53:27 The New CK4 culprit: |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/06/17 at 14:59:45 The one to get is the T6 ( CK-4) Extreme Temperature. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/06/17 at 15:06:24 Is this a correct assessment? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/06/17 at 15:24:43 The T6 CK-4 "extreme temperature" is what I found at WalMart, and what I have in my S40, JASO MA rated, without Moly. I have not used others, but if they are JASO MA rated, and without Moly, they must be suitable. After all the postings and what I have seen online, I believe the only T6 which was suspect was the later T6 CJ-4, which I had in my S40 for about 900 miles and is now discarded. That being said, I had no clutch slippage during those 900 miles. I'll just stick to what I have in my S40 for the forseeable future (T6 Extreme temperature 5W-40 CK-4), and not worry about it! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/06/17 at 16:31:06 494F40030 wrote:
Yes.....the one that is not yet available in stores! :( |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/06/17 at 16:43:07 6564796632396F6E0B0 wrote:
Shell says the T6 in the CK-4 rating was developed to provide better protection for heat.....evidently the newer diesel engines run hotter. Sounds perfect for an air cooled engine! :) http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/06/17 at 19:28:00 Dave, I bought the new "Extreme temperature" T6 CK-4 oil a week ago or so in the Falcon (CO) WalMart. I assume it will be available in many other locations soon, if not already. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by buster6315 on 12/06/17 at 19:54:46 CK hmmm. they half way through the alphabet. wonder what the properties of CX or CY will be? :) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/06/17 at 19:59:58 Nobody knows, and that's the problem. They keep changing the formulas, which makes is hard for us to figure out what new oils are good or bad for our little bikes! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by sgtsampay on 12/07/17 at 01:28:31 434455475D595C5C43300 wrote:
In the picture, the third one is the 5w30 weight. You meant to say the 5w40 t6 right? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by IslandRoad on 12/07/17 at 02:05:44 786F696E7F682C292B2F1A0 wrote:
Kryponite! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/07/17 at 06:16:32 7F7976350 wrote:
A few weeks ago I looked around in the local stores and truck stops in my area , and they did not have the new CK-4. That could change in the future.....and it makes you wonder if they will phase out the CJ-4? Is there really any reason to keep both.....as Shell states the CK-4 can be used in any engine requiring CJ-4. Below are quotes from the Shell Webpages on T6. We need to remember that the bread and butter for the Rotella T is the diesel engine used in commercial vehicles......and if the formulations work for us - then we can benefit from all the research and development they have done. The big problem is that they are not designing this oil for use in wet clutch applications.....and they could modify the formula at any time in a way that would make the oil unsuitable for use in the Savage. Selecting the proper Shell ROTELLA® engine oil for a truck or equipment will be easy. If it was built prior to 2016, whether it is on- or off-highway, choose CK-4 oil which directly replaces CJ-4 oils The Shell ROTELLA® technology team has been working closely with Ford throughout the API category development process. We believe, and our testing demonstrates, that the new Shell ROTELLA® CK-4 formulations provide superior wear protection compared to Shell ROTELLA® legacy CJ-4 formulations. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/07/17 at 06:59:57 5F4B585F4D415C4D552C0 wrote:
In the picture, the third one is the 5w30 weight. You meant to say the 5w40 t6 right? [/quote] Well, the pictures were mainly to reference the bottles of the different formulations regardless of oil weight (just a quick and dirty comparison) so please disregard the weight in the images. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 12/07/17 at 07:17:03 13282532232F343229212C33400 wrote:
A few weeks ago I looked around in the local stores and truck stops in my area , and they did not have the new CK-4. That could change in the future.....and it makes you wonder if they will phase out the CJ-4? Is there really any reason to keep both.....as Shell states the CK-4 can be used in any engine requiring CJ-4. Below are quotes from the Shell Webpages on T6. We need to remember that the bread and butter for the Rotella T is the diesel engine used in commercial vehicles......and if the formulations work for us - then we can benefit from all the research and development they have done. The big problem is that they are not designing this oil for use in wet clutch applications.....and they could modify the formula at any time in a way that would make the oil unsuitable for use in the Savage. Selecting the proper Shell ROTELLA® engine oil for a truck or equipment will be easy. If it was built prior to 2016, whether it is on- or off-highway, choose CK-4 oil which directly replaces CJ-4 oils The Shell ROTELLA® technology team has been working closely with Ford throughout the API category development process. We believe, and our testing demonstrates, that the new Shell ROTELLA® CK-4 formulations provide superior wear protection compared to Shell ROTELLA® legacy CJ-4 formulations. [/quote] Can you explicitly spell out for me where on the T6 container indicates whether it is the CK4 or the CJ4? Which is which? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by ohiomoto on 12/07/17 at 07:49:28 755253534B5E270 wrote:
I think we may be inching closer to this list: http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/longest-wars-in-human-history.html |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/07/17 at 09:15:50 In some of the 'website' images it has the reference on the front of the bottle, while other images don't. Regardless of the flashy graphics on the front, you should be able to look at the back and see the specifications. See: |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Ruttly on 12/07/17 at 10:16:02 I feel the tension growing , this may get hostile! Who gonna fire the first shot ? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/07/17 at 11:08:02 Formulating an oil (additive packs) is a compromise and is always changing. Different criteria are considered with each blending. To get an idea of what is considered when blending an oil click on https://commercial.lubrizoladditives360.com/specifications/api/#API%20CK-4 and scroll to the bottom You'll see that for the diesel oils that "fuel economy" is not important but if you were blending oil for an automobile that economy would be an important consideration. We are interested in high zinc/phosphorous and also meeting JASO ... many good diesel oils meet this requirement if we choose the right blend. Most auto oils DO NOT meet our ZDDP requirements as recent auto oils are limited to 800 There is lots of good API info out there if we do our homework |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by stewmills on 12/07/17 at 12:06:03 725554544C59200 wrote:
Have fuel can. Will travel. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/07/17 at 12:34:17 Here is the latest DELO cj-ck comparison https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4596313/gonew/1/Delo_5w40_Syn_CJ-4_vs_CK-4_VOA#UNREAD |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/17 at 14:06:44 353223312B2F2A2A35460 wrote:
Have fuel can. Will travel. ;D ;D ;D[/quote] Have bladder, will stop. [smiley=beer.gif] |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by sgtsampay on 12/08/17 at 02:47:48 So I was able get out to get out to the garage and check to see what kind of T6 I bought at walmart last weekend. Here is what i found. :) I'm lucky I guess! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Ruttly on 12/10/17 at 18:33:16 See just how civilized we can be. Not a shot fired ! As long as no one argues against what we know works ! Just not as much fun ! Makes for great reading too ! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/11/17 at 04:49:58 Last night I was in Tractor Supply, and not a jug of T6 to be found - it has been like this for weeks. I wonder if the CJ-4 is no longer being distributed....and the supply of the CK-4 is limited and it hasn't gotten to the shelves yet? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/12/17 at 18:19:54 Tractor supply still doesn't have the CK-4....but Walmart does! And I believe that the CJ-4 most likely is going to disappear, as the new CK-4 bottle also has the CJ-4 listing as well! The new CK-4/CJ-4 bottle does not have the JASO MA rating - but that should not deter us from using it in the Savage. The ZDDP level is great, the moly level is low, and the only reason it is no MA rated is that the Phosphorous level is above the limits for the MA rating - the Savage doesn't care about Phosphorus! The Rotella T6 is back on the "approved and recommended" list! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/17 at 18:29:39 Does that mean it better than the T4? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by JLC on 12/12/17 at 19:29:04 Dave, I have a gallon container of T6 CK-4 in front of me, and the label states it is JASO MA/MA2 rated. That's the Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic Extreme Temperature version. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by batman on 12/12/17 at 19:29:37 Better? maybe. But I think it's like you JOG ,it's just "different" ::) ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/17 at 19:39:02 That was a good shot, man. Well played. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by batman on 12/12/17 at 20:03:17 It was a cheap shot! but the truth is in Texas with that heat I'd be running the new T-6 CK the breakdown temp being 350 for T-4 and 500 for the T-6 the small difference in price ,and the fact that you could go twice as long between oil changes with the T-6 makes it a bargain in my book. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/17 at 20:36:03 Sounds like a reasonable approach. Thanks And I have been Really trying to think up a good way to get even. I haven't But when I do You'll Definitely be next to know. So, watch your six, ace.. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by batman on 12/12/17 at 20:41:03 JOG ,there is no doubt in my mind that you won't one up me . but I wouldn't dish it out if I couldn't take it ! I know you'll do your worst!(best?) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/13/17 at 04:14:06 787E71320 wrote:
Yep.....you're correct - I needed to keep reading the paragraphs all the way to the bottom! (I guess it was the other T6 that had too much phosphorous....it gets so hard to keep all this straight). http://i68.tinypic.com/117qwx2.jpg http://i68.tinypic.com/2yxg87q.jpg |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/13/17 at 05:32:54 My tribologist friend at BITOG recommended the JASO MA/MA2 T6 for my S40. I told him that I would likely stay with the T4 as I "enjoy" changing oil and it's more cost effective to dump T4 early than T6. ;) He agreed ..... So if you are like me and change the oil "early & often" then T4 is da bomb. If you don't like changing oil and run your fill for a long OCI then T6 (JASO MA/MA2) is da bomb. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/13/17 at 05:49:43 Papabear: I think along those lines. With my heavy work load, I don't get to ride nearly as much as I would like to, and I put about 2,000 miles a year on the Savage Cafe' bike. I change the oil before I put it away each winter, and again before the summer Dragon ride....I only use my oil about 1,000 miles between changes. I had a temperature gauge on my engine, and the head temperature is generally about 240 degrees - once on a 95 degree day it approached 300 when I was stuck in traffic in Pigeon Forge, and once when Oldfeller had me climbing a steep mountain gravel road in 1st gear. If the breakdown temp is 350 for T4 and 500 for the T6...the T4 is still doing the job for me as long as I stay out of Pigeon Forge and off the gravel roads. If you do get stuck in traffic on very hot days.....it might be worth using the synthetic T6. Doesn't really make much difference cost wise - my yearly oil cost would be about $14 for the T4.......$21 for the T6. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/17 at 06:21:19 Oil use changes as miles add up on the oil. I start seeing it need oil after some spirited riding and I'll change it. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/13/17 at 09:47:29 4142574E424D171B230 wrote:
Where did you get these numbers? PQIA shows almost identical volatility and mass loss for T4 & T6 @250C (482F) temps http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/shellrotellat6.htm |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/13/17 at 10:23:16 Batman supplied them: 3033263F333C666A520 wrote:
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/26/17 at 12:57:56 Well, the New Rotella T6 CK-4 oil is now showing up on all the local store shelves. It is the new "NEW" T6, and it is back on our forum approved list for use in the Savage. It has low Moly content, it has a very high ZDDP content and it really doesn't need to be supplemented with any Redline additive. I may start using the new T6 in my bike and see if it is any different than the Rotella T that I have been using for the last 10,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Armen on 12/27/17 at 02:46:35 Hey Dave, What weight of the new stuff are you using? thanks |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/27/17 at 04:49:18 586B747C77190 wrote:
5W-40 I have it in my car now too! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 12/27/17 at 10:13:12 What make/year/model car ? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 12/27/17 at 10:39:59 60616E6F6C6D6A6B68590 wrote:
2006 Pontiac Vibe I have been using the Mobile T in it for years....it has 141,000 miles in it. I suppose I should/could have run other oils in it - but between the motorcycles/tractor/car......I can just use 1 oil. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by zipidachimp on 01/01/18 at 15:13:10 I need 2 oils. Can you believe 0W/20? 2012 Civic, only available as syn! >:( |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Oldfeller on 01/10/18 at 04:08:06 hmmmmmm ....... The 2017 version of the Endless Oil War. At least the main points were made correctly early on and the original poster got them all registered in his mind correctly before fleeing the mortar blasts and strafing machine gun fire. We have to do this at least once a year to entertain the new crop of newbies that Santa leaves us each year at Christmas time. ;) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 01/10/18 at 05:24:42 It's not a war - it's an education. ;) |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/10/18 at 13:08:22 133F2C3509193F2B2A36373B2C5E0 wrote:
Youzguyz got 150,000 from his motor.............the only thing that was out of spec was the rings and the valve guides. The cylinder, piston, cams and rocker went back into service. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/18 at 15:55:26 I watch the consumption increase. Then change it, regardless of the miles. Don't get comfortable with checking the oil every so often because it's not using it much. As the miles add up, consumption goes up. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 01/11/18 at 05:35:30 I believe that it is the transmission in a shared sump wet clutch engine assembly that shears the oil .. not the engine. The transmission makes earlier oil changes necessary - not engine components. I enjoy changing oil so I have no problem. Makes me feel like I've done something constructive. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/11/18 at 05:50:51 "If you can get 3 or 4 quarts of motul put it on your fingers and see how sticky it is and how big of a pain in the butt it is to clean it off your hands it's got some of the best clinging agents I've ever seen it holds up to 752 horsepower in the ZX11 and over 660 horse out of my ZX14 plus they offered in a lot of different weights 10w40 10w60 20w50 we also run it in Top Fuel Motors." Not exactly a scientific way of testing viscosity, or any other property of oil for that matter. Not sure I want to pour 3 or 4 quarts through my fingers either. Bottom line, the Savage ISN'T a ZX14, a drag racer nor will it ever make more than 50 hp. It's a low tech engine that requires low tech oil. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/11/18 at 08:04:40 "It's a low tech engine that requires low tech oil." Huh??? why not improve on it by using high-tech oil? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/11/18 at 08:16:55 High tech oils don't have sufficient zddp. Usually they have friction modifiers, not okay for the clutch. The engine design is old. The oils available at the time were fine for the design. Modern oils will wreck it. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/11/18 at 08:17:04 736A66676E6C6D7761766068667A66030 wrote:
Because the current EPA imposed High-Tech results in oil with a low ZZDP level that wears out our cam and rockers.....and friction modifiers like Moly that result in clutch slippage. Our low tech engine doesn't like that kind of high-tech! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/11/18 at 08:36:45 607F797E63645565556D7F73380A0 wrote:
This is just ignorance. What is lacking can be added, and there are plenty of the new oils that do NOT have the bad additives (remember that most motorcycle engines also have wet clutches as well). The new synthetics are far superior that to question that is ridiculous. The dino oils will go the way of the dino!! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/11/18 at 08:42:45 And that's just dumb. Why open up the chemistry lab and stir things into a product that doesn't have what I need when I can grab a jug and pour? How much better will your Custom mix be? I figure if an off the shelf oil will keep it on the road for 100,000 miles, it's good enough.. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/11/18 at 08:51:31 "How much better will your Custom mix be?" LOTS better! It's hard to argue with facts! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/11/18 at 08:55:11 7F666A6B6260617B6D7A6C646A766A0F0 wrote:
Is the some reason you don't believe the Rotellat T6 Synthetic is a good oil? We are not saying you need to use a Dino oil like the T4 - just that a lot of the newer oils are not formulated in a way that is friendly to an engine that doesn't have roller rockers. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/11/18 at 09:06:57 566D6077666A71776C646976050 wrote:
Is the some reason you don't believe the Rotellat T6 Synthetic is a good oil? We are not saying you need to use a Dino oil like the T4 - just that a lot of the newer oils are not formulated in a way that is friendly to an engine that doesn't have roller rockers. [/quote] I understand the various positions. I LIKE the Rotella T6 as it is based upon the synthetic base of natural gas - like the sister Pennzoil, but better for the Savage per the Pennzoil rep. The natural gas base is even superior to the base that has been used in the traditional synthetics like Mobil 1. At least that is my understanding of the latest information. Pennzoil is owned by Shell. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 01/11/18 at 11:49:09 Some say the transmission shears T6 faster than T4 .. may want to check that out. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by verslagen1 on 01/11/18 at 13:07:43 3D3C33323130373635040 wrote:
My understanding is that T4 and T6 are from the same base oil. T6 is only refined more. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 01/11/18 at 13:16:45 I believe T4 is a Group 2 base and T6 is a group 3 (+) The oil companies are not forth-coming on base oil utilization in their blends |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/11/18 at 19:40:30 2E373B3A3331302A3C2B3D353B273B5E0 wrote:
I GAVE you facts. People who run Rotella are running 150 THOUSAND MILES. And spending about$14.00/gallon. NOT buying additives and spending TIME stirring up the Miracle Oil. How much more than 150,000 miles will you get with your Added time and money? Lay the snark down for a while and consider the return on investment. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by badwolf on 01/11/18 at 20:19:07 It is hard for me to accept advice on how good some new oil is with no track record. What you read about it is mostly salespeople doing their job---trying to sell their new oil. Next week they will have some other new latest and greatest to sell. Rotella WORKS! Plain and simple. If someone wants to brag about their new oil, show me a picture of your speedo. When you roll over 100k with your new oil I MAY listen. |
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Title: Re: Re: Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/12/18 at 03:08:54 6B61656F646D69603E383C0C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by GT61 TURBO ZX14 on 01/12/18 at 03:12:36 And add this to your oil and it will help to |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/12/18 at 03:33:35 Not all ZDDP additives are safe for use in a Wet Clutch application. 7F44495E4F43585E454D405F2C0 wrote:
Here is a list of the ZDDP additives that are safe to use in the Savage. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/12/18 at 09:21:29 Hmm boy, we're sure getting educated on these bikes now.. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/12/18 at 10:47:08 What's better than a good ol' fashioned oil war, I ask ya? |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by hotrod on 01/12/18 at 21:38:42 Oil war ? My nostrils are flaring ! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/12/18 at 22:19:12 1F363A3A322566570 wrote:
Lucas oil additive will fix that. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/13/18 at 05:05:34 There is serious doubt that anyone on this forum is ever going to have an oil related failure, as I doubt anyone is running the current car oil formula with a low 600 ppm of ZDDP or the little "energy star" symbol on the bottle........if you are - shame on you. As long as you are using an oil with and adequate amount of ZDDP, you will likely sell your bike long before you wear it out. We only have one member on the forum who has ridden his bike long and far enough to require a rebuild from wearing it out - I believe he ran the first 60,000 miles on Valvoline synthetic and the last 90,000 miles on Rotella T6 Most repairs on this forum are from folks who bought used bikes and are fixing problems caused by the previous uninformed/uncaring owners. You can used Rotella T4 at $15 a gallon, Rotella T6 at $22 a gallon, or Motul or Maxima Esther oils at $45 a gallon.......and numerous other oil options. The forum moderators can't keep a constant watch over every oil that is available - we carefully monitor and recommend the Rotella oils as they are very affordable, available almost everywhere, and they have the stuff needed to keep the engine protected.......and with the current formula in them I don't believe there is any need to add supplemental ZDDP. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by badwolf on 01/13/18 at 05:15:24 Oil war? Long as we are in full combat mode, what mixture of oils is best in the front fork? snicker, snicker |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Dave on 01/13/18 at 05:49:44 7674677967657D747C67150 wrote:
Badwolf......Eveyone knows that is Rotella + heavy gear oil! ::) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1452127820/0 |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by badwolf on 01/13/18 at 05:54:14 I said it before and still use - KY jelly mixed 50-50 with baby oil.......Oh wait, FORK oil? never mind. |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/13/18 at 07:08:07 704B4651404C57514A424F50230 wrote:
Dave, thanks for some common sense. You are wise beyond your years!!! |
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Title: Re: Is it safe to use 10W30 engine oil instead 10W Post by Papa Bear on 01/13/18 at 09:21:35 War's over ... drop the mike. 8-) |
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