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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Another Noob with a tuning question.... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1504817399 Message started by RuleOfThump on 09/07/17 at 13:49:59 |
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Title: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by RuleOfThump on 09/07/17 at 13:49:59 Hello All- I'm a noob and a Savage fan here in upstate NY posting for the first time. Been riding for about a year. Initially on a Honda Cm400 that died (long story). So, now I'm riding the LS650 I bought a few months ago from someone who had it a little while and claimed no issues and up til now it has been fine. Been reading this site ALOT, but I've hit a wall and wondering how to proceed. What I have: 1999 LS650P Raptor Petcock 11,000 miles 3rd owner. Ran very well when I got it and had no issues except for some sputter or "tug"-like feeling around 60-65mph. Came and went and I don't mind since the speed limit around here pretty much maxes out at 55 and I'm too green for highways. What I did: Tried to upgrade to the dyna muffler the previous owner threw in with the sale. Went on well enough, but got some backfire and low end sputter. So, in researching here I tried a few of the suggested mods to work it out. It now has: 2/3rd white spacer 55 pilot (up from the 52.5) 152.5 Main (up from the 145) (Also tested out a 150 Main) Getting a lot of sputter and backfire. I tried different jet combos and the final one above worked best initially, but started sputtering and backfiring really bad after about an hour. I put in fresh gas, I changed the air filter, the header bolts are tight, I put in a new header gasket and theres no leaks I can tell from the exhaust. I cleaned out the carb during the first rejet attempt, its clean to the best of my knowledge and as I said before it was running well before I changed the muffler. I know you've all found a way to make different mufflers work and since the Dyna is the most common I figured I wasn't going out on a limb too far as my first mod attempt. The brass plug on the carb was already pulled by someone in the past and I've tried following the tuning advice. The idle is nice and high but the A/F mix screw doesn't seem to be having much effect no matter how I turn it. Again, I'm new and my senses are not as knowledgeable as some of yours. I'm pretty comfortable mechanically, but just wondering if this is a matter of tuning and reconfiguring my jets or if I'm searching in the wrong place? Not double checking the right thing Or should I dial it all back and start over....? :-/ Thanks in advance to anyone out there that has some words of wisdom. You've all been a big help in my learning experience so far and its been fun -frustrating, but that can be fun too. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by IslandRoad on 09/07/17 at 14:29:30 Is the baffle intact in the Dyna? Sometimes people poke them through. It would also be useful to know your elevation, so the experienced guys can get a sense of the baseline that would be most common for your jetting. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by Tocsik on 09/07/17 at 14:50:20 I will also wait for the more expert tuners to chime in but wanted to mention that at 11K miles you are due to inspect (and probably change) the cam chain tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by batman on 09/07/17 at 15:47:37 I'm in upstate N.Y. ,If your not in the mountains ,your at about 400ft elev. I also run a Dyna muffler and stock carb, If moving the mix screw doesn't seem to change rpm it's maybe because of the 55 pilot jet being to large ,I run the stock 52.5 the needle lift you have,and 150 main jet.With that setup you should also think about using a less restrictive air filter ,I us Oldfeller's home made (it's in the technical section) for it's good performance and low cost.As said above, you do have to check the Dyna to make sure the baffle is in place and has no holes drilled in it. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by Yoshi on 09/07/17 at 19:18:02 With no intake mod you could run the 52.5 pilot jet, I would use the 152.5 main jet with the PMS screw out three turns |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by batman on 09/07/17 at 19:40:10 You might want to check the carb to make sure your the vacuum port for the stock petcock is still plugged, and after you cleaned the carb did you check the float level before reassembling the bowl? |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by ohiomoto on 09/08/17 at 05:28:07 They spit, sputter, backfire and fart when the slide gets stuck. The throttle plate opens and the slide doesn't, you get a really lean condition. I had this problem and noticed the black coating on the slide was rubbing off and building up inside the carb. Also, a touch of grease around the top of the diaphragm doesn't hurt. Oh and make sure it's seated correctly. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by batman on 09/08/17 at 08:14:28 Albany could be hard to jet to,the city is at sea level,where larger jets would be the thing to use, but if you go a dozen miles east or west the elevation goes to 1800-2000 ft . If your at that elevation I don't think you should be using anything larger than a 150 main jet,52.5 pilot. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by RuleOfThump on 09/08/17 at 09:16:03 Wow. Thanks for all the feedback guys, very much appreciated and these are very useful tips that I'll be using. •The elevation for my town says 960ft ASL. if that helps any. And it's true what Batman said, it changes drastically over very short distances. So that will be its own challenge. I believe I read a few of batmans posts along the way since I saw you were upstate as well and running a Dyna. I'll try the stock pilot and 150 again since it seems real hungry for gas as it is now. The vacuum port is plugged with a crimped hose, unless anyone has a suggestion for a better seal - i'm open to ideas. I will check the baffle on the muffler just to be sure as I don't believe I inspected it as closely as I should have. I also bought a Ryca connector just to make sure the connection is solid. I did notice the slide was scuffed when I changed the white spacer. Is there a way to lube it or safely clean it? I'll look into that Oldfeller filter. Any intake tests worth trying? I know some have tried running it with the filter door off to check intake need. I'll try a few more turns out on the PMS as my next step, Yoshi. thanks. Right now I believe it's at 2. I've been concerned about the cam chain, Tocsik and once this is worked out (if) then I'll have a look at it this winter once I have some cold weather time to do some inspecting. Thanks again everyone. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by Tocsik on 09/08/17 at 09:57:28 Stop by a local auto parts place and pick up a pack of vacuum caps; they have packs with a variety of sizes. Inspect it every couple months and replace if/when it starts showing cracks. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by RuleOfThump on 09/08/17 at 10:38:45 Tocsik - thanks, I will definitely get some! |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by stewmills on 09/08/17 at 13:55:14 4B6C757C567F4D716C7469190 wrote:
Mine has some "scuffs" where you can see the silver aluminum through the black paint, but it's a super smooth scuff. That isn't uncommon to see some light areas so long as you don't think it is dented, scratched, or rubbing so aggressively that it is hanging up. When I clean mine, I do so with CLEAN hands (sometimes gloves) and WD40. Spray it down and then use the air compressor to LIGHTLY blow the drips off, mainly being careful not to get any pinpoint pressure on the rubber diaphragm and rip/tear it. Be gentle. Next, make sure you do the same for the carb and clean the inside of the carb well to make sure there are no scuffs or debris. Lastly, before re-installing it, wipe the slide itself down with a clean, lint free cloth. Even fingerprints can attract oils and grime that can cause sticking. It is not a good idea to do this procedure using "carb cleaner" because it is not good for plastics and rubber. It eats them. If you ever do get any on the plastics or rubber, follow it with a good dose of WD40 to rinse the caustic carb cleaner away. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by batman on 09/08/17 at 15:08:06 Tocsik and Stewwells are right on ! As for being at 960 ft, I'm at 850 ,but ride the thruway( 450) or up in the mts( 2000-2500 ) and never miss a beat. at lower elevations you'll run a bit leaner ,but a 150 is two sizes up from the stock 145 , so you won't be lean enough to hurt the motor(run hot) , at higher elevation you'll run a bit rich ,which won't damage at all. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by RuleOfThump on 09/09/17 at 04:22:16 Once again, geat advice and thank you. I was very careful to wear gloves and keep the slide clean as I had read throughout the site. Maybe a dose of wd-40 would help while i'm in there next. wd-40 is the holy water of the garage. The baffle is in the muffler as I has hoped. Its not crazy loud just has a nicer deep sound. I'll move down to the 150 Main and hopefully tune it in. So, like yours batman, I'm assuming the 150 Main and stock 52.5 pilot will be the right combo. It was working pretty well after I pulled everything out and reassembled it last time, until and hour into riding. so i'm guessing that aside from the jetting the slide is getting sticky or is just not sitting right. All things to look into, plus that Oldfeller air filter. Thanks a ton for helping me narrow things down. |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by RuleOfThump on 09/23/17 at 21:53:46 So, for those that may read this I have good news! Finally had success working things out and very happy with the results. Ended up dialing things back to the beginning and retracing my steps. I put three washers in the needle spacer to get it back to stock condition. Then did some maintenance such as charging up the battery and cleaning out the carb (again) and replacing some possibly worn out o-rings - plus putting a new stock size pilot jet in (the one in there looked scratched and the screw slot was chewed up) but kept the 150 Main. I found a nice chunk of who-knows-what stuck in the float needle screen, so it was certainly worth the extra careful inspection. I cleaned out the air box gunk and made an Oldfeller style air filter. The main culprit i think was the header gasket that I felt didn't quite sit right the first time around. I put in a new one and carefully, slowly tightened the header exhaust clamp. I got some new clamps for all the hose connections and even put in a fresh fuel line hose with fuel filter. The moment of truth came when she fired up strong and clean and there was no waver or hesitation in the idle. I let it warm up for a full 20mins then gave her a go on the road and...ZOOM! The throttle response was amazing and there were no pops, no stutters, sputters or backfires - just a perfect little crackle on decel that I like Alot!. I couldnt stop riding around for hours... All in all, I can't really pinpoint what was wrong earlier but it all clicked into place with a lot of patience, research and help from this forum. Could not have done it without this source of community and information. Ride safe yall! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by IslandRoad on 09/23/17 at 23:06:23 I'm gonna take a punt and say, the gunk on the needle jet was probably the culprit ;) Glad to hear it all worked out :) Members here have mixed feelings about fuel filters. There's already a filter on the fuel tap, so an inline filter is like adding another place where things can go wrong without any real benefit. FWIW, I spent a lot of time tuning my carb (as a newbie). I also like that little 'crack' when I drop the throttle. It goes away during winter and comes back in the spring - we're heading into spring here now. I haven't heard the crack for a few months. Then we had a 10 degree (celcius) jump in temperature yesterday ... and there it was 8-) |
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Title: Re: Another Noob with a tuning question.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/17 at 02:04:29 I let it warm up for a full 20mins then gave her a go on the road and...ZOOM! The Wow.... |
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