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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Wasn't I n MY history books /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1498625375 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/17 at 21:49:34 |
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Title: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/17 at 21:49:34 https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/06/walter-e-williams/confederate-generals-traitors/ I don't know of anyone who would answer. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by mpescatori on 06/28/17 at 00:00:49 Interesting read. Way back in the 1960's and '70s Robert E.Lee, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson were considered heroes. I do not recall ever reading anything against them. Why should anyone want to obscure their memory ? ::) Why would anyone want to ban Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn ? :P :P :P |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 07:27:53 Some people don't want truth. Some are PCPussies. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/17 at 07:45:08 726D6B6C71764777477F6D612A180 wrote:
... differently? I was educated before PC was vogue. Lee, Jackson, Davis were the great generals of the CW. They did more with less but eventually defeated. But they are now caught up the repression of history. People like to think they are good and came from good people. The facts that support such bad need to be erased. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by Serowbot on 06/28/17 at 07:51:25 Never believe anything from a site that sells gold... |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by raydawg on 06/28/17 at 07:52:43 I think you guys are viewing this from one perspective and calling it complete. In historical context, time, place, circumstances, the scale of judgement was calibrated under a different set of principles, and perspectives, that really do not lend themselves well to the present understandings.... It's fair to argue that removing history, doesn't change anything of the past, however, it might advance a better understanding to the future. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by raydawg on 06/28/17 at 07:56:59 2F392E332B3E33285C0 wrote:
Why do you even bother......... ::) |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/17 at 08:01:17 61726A77726474130 wrote:
Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to relive it. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by WebsterMark on 06/28/17 at 08:22:36 Didn't the US pitch a fit when ISIS destroyed some relics in territories they controlled because it didn't fit their current world view? No one of consequence celebrates slavery. Those statues and markers are historical, not celebratory. And this could get out of control. Washington, Jefferson owned slaves. do we get rid of the dollar bill, Washington monument etc... some people say yet. Liberalism.....honestly it's a disease that spreads..... |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by Serowbot on 06/28/17 at 08:45:30 073532232435221D31223B500 wrote:
Sure,.. Germany should have left up all those Hitler relics too... ::) |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 09:00:51 Your desperation is showing. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by Serowbot on 06/28/17 at 09:25:02 So go ahead... honour your slave owning, murderous, traitors that inflicted the greatest loss of life in American history... Tell me how that is any different than honouring Hitler?... Removing statues that honour these men is not sweeping history under the rug,.. Dark periods in history should be remembered but not honoured... The side of right is clear here.. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by T And T Garage on 06/28/17 at 10:00:17 1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote:
Ask yourself this - were those confederates traitors? Simple yes or no. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 10:46:38 No. Read the article. Understand that the States WERE independent NATIONS, unto themselves. Nobody would Join into an agreement to Unite and Work Together WITHOUT the Option to Dissolve the Agreement and End the Association IF that association with the others had become burdensome. Secession was not an afterthought. The RIGHT to secede was included in the founding documents. You can scream about slavery, but it WASN'T WHY we went to war. If slavery was The Deal, Explain WHY the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't Part of the Declaration OF the war. Yeah, do THAT! And explain why Lincoln said If I could save the union and leave the institution of slavery intact, I would. A Union secured by force? That's not a union. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/17 at 12:18:07 Wasn't the beginning of the civil war the firing upon fort sumter? So the 1st act of the newly declared nation is an act of war. If there wasn't... would there had been a civil war? |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 12:46:26 Lincoln would not allow secession. The north mistreated the south economically. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by T And T Garage on 06/28/17 at 12:48:40 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
Yeah, whatever it takes to make you feel better about yourself. It was a CIVIL WAR - look that up. The confederates were traitors to the Union - yes jog, there was indeed a union. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 12:52:24 If you joined a club and the reason for joining was Mutual Benefit, but over time it changed and You weren't benefiting any more. Are you wrong to disassociate? |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by T And T Garage on 06/28/17 at 13:00:26 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Thank you for the textbook strawman.... This Country is NOT a club. Take a history class and a civics lesson. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 13:14:29 I offered a thought exercise. That you have to see black and white is a problem. .—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.[4] The States entered into an agreement. When some states started feeling abused as others benefit, they wanted out. That's not wrong. Believe what you were taught forever. I believed as you for many years. I've seen enough lies to allow me to change what I believe when enough evidence contradicts what I was taught. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by WebsterMark on 06/28/17 at 13:38:37 607E71707D607B66140 wrote:
Ask yourself this - were those confederates traitors? Simple yes or no. [/quote] By the Constitutional definition of the word: No. From a humanity definition: Yes. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by WebsterMark on 06/28/17 at 13:57:26 647A757479647F62100 wrote:
Thank you for the textbook strawman.... This Country is NOT a club. Take a history class and a civics lesson.[/quote] Jog makes a fair point that just can't be dismissed. No, the country is not a club, but it was much closer to one back then. States rights was a real thing then, not a forgotten concept like today. Hell, weren't the two states the Hatfield and McCoy's were from seriously considering sending their state militias to invade each other to fight on their side's behalf? Seem to remember that. The leftover pain of the civil war and 17th amendment more than anything, watered down states rights which erased the idea of a "club". We are dominated by a Federal Government now, for good or bad depending how you look at it. But, objecting to this ridicules fad we're going though of removing any statute that someone finds offensive does not make someone pro-slavery, anti-black or the silliest of all, pro-Hitler. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/17 at 14:49:27 584649484558435E2C0 wrote:
Thank you for the textbook strawman.... This Country is NOT a club. Take a history class and a civics lesson.[/quote] Why don't you take a lesson... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_and_secession_in_California |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by pg on 06/28/17 at 15:24:04 They were a group of loose knit territories called states back then. http://www.john-adams-heritage.com/treaty-of-paris-1783/ Article 1: Acknowledging the thirteen colonies as free sovereign and independent states and relinquishing all claims to property and territorial rights. They were still fighting the British till February of 1815. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812 Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/17 at 15:58:28 Is someone stupid enough to agree to Unite with a group in hopes of seeing better conditions for all members of the group Without leaving a way to Dissolve the Union if they aren't happy later? Apparently lefties are, because they believe that is what each state did. And yet, nothing says Once in Can't leave While Secession IS part of the language.. But I'm the dummy. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by pg on 06/29/17 at 14:30:57 Interestingly enough, I was in Charleston today. You can see Fort Sumter out in the harbor. Charleston is a fantastic town. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/17 at 16:41:18 584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 wrote:
Class? |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/17 at 18:57:41 Of course it was part of the deal. Some people on here got educated from watching MTV. It's not entirely their fault they don't know any better. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by mpescatori on 06/30/17 at 03:32:00 607E71707D607B66140 wrote:
Ask yourself this - were those confederates traitors? Simple yes or no. [/quote] As a former Junior High School student in Fairfax Co., VA, allow me tthe privilege to reply: NO, they were not. Else, George Washington himself should be considered a traitor himself because he was a Captain in the British Army during the French&Indian War - yet switched sides in 1775. History is written by those who win the war. |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by raydawg on 06/30/17 at 03:40:27 That was an excellent response, one I had not considered...... However, to answer a question that wasn't posed with any honest attempt at enlightenment, but a gotcha, is about as useless as tits on a man. But thanks anyway Pessi, I got sumtin outta it ;D |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by pg on 06/30/17 at 04:46:10 415C495F4F4D58435E452C0 wrote:
Ask yourself this - were those confederates traitors? Simple yes or no. [/quote] As a former Junior High School student in Fairfax Co., VA, allow me tthe privilege to reply: NO, they were not. Else, George Washington himself should be considered a traitor himself because he was a Captain in the British Army during the French&Indian War - yet switched sides in 1775. History is written by those who win the war.[/quote] I surmise T&T will say he was a traitor regardless. He did not conform to the leftist Marxist agenda even before Marx was born. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Wasn't I n MY history books Post by MnSpring on 06/30/17 at 08:54:46 Not just ‘history’ books. But Many books, are, re-written as to being, P.C. Correct! Case in point, (about just a very generic book), Written first in 1965, by Frank Barns. It was the MOST, comprehensive compilation, of “Cartridges Of The World”, Ever Written. It reflected Years of research. It has been reproduced/re printed, 12 times. Each time, the, ‘old’ stuff is still their, just, the ’new’ things have been added. I have a 1969 copy, and a 2006 copy. In the 69 one, the original Author, (now deceased) In a description of a cartridge, when fired in a certain brand/model of firearm, because of the shallow riffling, and slow twist, he said: “When fired in a wore out, Win 94, you can’t hit a FLOCK of Barnes, if you were standing inside one” In 06, now changed to: “ Much Ink has been spilled, claiming the .32 Special, won’t shoot after the barrel gets a bit of wear”. Then goes on to say, how he shot a Different, Make/Model, (Chambered the same), and it shot just fine. and Also, shot a ‘Win 94’, and it shot just the same. YET, NEGLECTED, to say, was that firearm, made, Before, or After 64.? (When Winchester had the Big Bankruptcy, and Dramatically changed, it’s manufacturing) also, that rate of, ’spin, twist’, and the depth of rifleing, CHANGES, as to, when/how/who, the firearms are Manufactured by. So, Many books, are subject to change, by JUST some, ‘P.C. Correct’, person. through Lies, by omission of Fact. I Guess, some here, would consider a Statue of George Washington, As being a Statue of a, ’traitor’. (After all he was, to the British) But I wonder, WHY, His Statue, is in, Trafalgar Square, in the UK ????? Could it be, 'Being, P.C.' ?????? |
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