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Message started by Graven754 on 05/16/17 at 05:21:58

Title: extended forks
Post by Graven754 on 05/16/17 at 05:21:58

So I'm working on making my bike a chopper. I'm more interested in raising the front in via extended forks than going with a rake. I'm curious what all is involved with changing out your forks, where to get them, how much it cots, etc. Links to products would be even more appreciated.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/16/17 at 07:16:43

Hey All, I would love to hear commentary on this also. Not looking to extend forks per say, more inclined to install the AME kit at 9º. This may sound crazy, but does anyone know of possibly an AME kit (9º) someone is looking to sell? Either bought it and didn't install or installed and want to go back or maybe bike died and not fixing it or project they just can't find the time to complete.

There is a discussion somewhere in the past, where someone put 4" longer tubes in the stock triple trees, if I can relocate it I will post the link.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Blade on 05/16/17 at 07:38:29

Stock triple trees, with +4" forks from Franks Forks here is their website:
http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

or search them on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/forkingbyfrank/

Process was: remove original forks, replace with new. Kept the original kickstand, bike leans a bit more than before.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Blade on 05/16/17 at 07:51:20

Cost a year ago was US$319 plus shipping.

Before and after:

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/17 at 08:09:43

How many miles did you ride stock?
What's it Like, compared to stock?
Did you notice any problems with maneuverability?
At some point, the angle of the tubes plus the friction inside the forks plus the springs and resistance of fluid passing through orifices would seem to tend to flex the tubes rather than compress the suspension.
I can't walk past a Springer and not study the design. The torque of braking should counter the Dive.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/16/17 at 10:17:15

Blade, one of the discussions I was refering to in my post was about your bike. Funny I actually saved the lower picture, in comparison you posted, in my idea file. I was wondering about the forward controls on your ride, where are they form? Maybe some info on them.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Blade on 05/17/17 at 01:50:19

JOG, I had the bike for around five years and around 5000 miles in stock form before putting on the longer forks. The ride is not discernably better or worse, but the smile factor is 10 fold.

No maneuverability problems, but the geometry dictates that the turning circle must be wider. There is no flexing evident at this length and I have read that fork suppliers don't recommend putting forks longer than 4 inches over into stock trees possibly for that reason. As a precaution against twisting I put a Superbrace on the forks.

SoC, the forward control plates (and linkages, seat, sissy bar, rear rack and tail assembly) were "Made by Blade". Rather than hijack this thread, I'll post all the details in the bike project section.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/17/17 at 08:02:44

I just bought this LS650 just so I could have that 'chopper' experience - I'm quite happy with my S40 Bobber but I saw this one on eBay and you can never have too many Savages in your stable - the bike was built by an Australian engineer living in Germany and then imported to the UK 3 years ago

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/17/17 at 08:04:16

Here's another pic

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/17/17 at 08:51:17

Marebuk, another photo for my idea file. That is one of the nicer chop builds I have seen on a Savage. Simple and clean utilizing a lot of original parts. Is front end an AME 14º kit? Makes me rethink and consider going one-up for mine.

Blade looking forward to your post with details. As I'm realively new not sure where Bike Project section is, is it Build section in Rubber side down?

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/17/17 at 09:45:53

SoC - not sure about the make of the forks but they do seem to work well - I've only taken the bike for a short ride - I'm waiting for the rain to stop falling here in the UK. Rubber side down has some projects in there

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by batman on 05/17/17 at 13:29:34

I'd take a more reserved approach on our bike ,where a 4" extension may be fine ,there are reasons to not use a 14 degree tree and longer tubes.Our bike already has a 35 degree rake(larger than most bikes) ,adding the tree would make that 49 degrees ,that and longer tubes to give normal ground clearance under the frame would put a lot of stress on fork seals,forktubes , and neck bearings, and watching the neck sway a couple of inches back and forth at every turn (from having to turn the front end much farther to allow the bike to lean and corner )may be a bit scary .Ever ask yourself why these "cool " bikes are for sale? Maybe someone's dream turned into a nightmare, but it looks good!

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by norm92de on 05/17/17 at 16:51:07

I don't think it looks good. Style over substance!

Just my opinion.
I can't imagine how it would handle. Horrible!
However, I defend his right to make the bike into anything he wants. :'(

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by batman on 05/17/17 at 17:03:15

Norm I do too, I'm just trying to worn him that on the zuk there is a limit to how far you can go ,before it causes problems or poor handling .I don't see the use of 4 inch over tubes being bad as that only changes the neck angle by a couple of degrees ,but the 14 degree tree may be a bit radical.Having driven some choppers in the way back,I'm aware of just how bad the handling and flex can be.In order for the front end to function the angle of the tubes Must be less than 45 degrees ,other wise they won't retract ,they just flex upward and could fail over time.That blue bike above may look cool,at the bike show ,but you won't see me on it as I ride to live.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/17/17 at 17:36:41

Batman, thanks for the info, I was wondering what the stock rake on bike was. It's one of the specs/dimensions you often can't easily find. You also brought up some good points.

Me personally would never consider a 14º kit as it's too long and like you mentioned probably could creat a little instability in the whole thing.

The recommended new tubes with an AME 9º kit are 4" longer as I understand it. Apparently that maintains the bike level on front to back axis. The AME kits are distributed by ChoperSupply here in the states. I have reached out to them by email for some detailed info on the kits but they were not too forthcoming, particularly in the follow-up to my initial inquiry. I don't think it's they don't have a full understanding of the complete engineering and applications it may be more they just don't want to take the time to explain it all. When I requested some additional detailed follow-up they weren't overly supportive. They may be better on phone if I had called, just didn't want to waste their time until I scrape up the $2300 plus a kit from them costs.

AME claims they basically maintain the trail on the bike. I don't have a complete understanding of the kit and components though, just a surmise of how it all goes together from what sketchy technical I have been able to locate on web.

Basically, the kit not only includes new trees, it also includes new inserts/bushings for the frame tube. Unlike the stock tube inserts/bushings they have some sort of offset built into them that basically simulates a cut and reweld of the frame. That is, unlike the standard set up where the bolt basically passes through the tube in alignment with it, the new inserts change that, creating an offset so that the bolt and tube are no longer in parallel. With that though I may be wrong, like said I surmised it from info I have been able to review.

It does result in a difference in handling, though the claim is only slight with the 9º kit. Don't want to go into the whole math and angles discussion, it been hashed over before in other threads. It basically is a trade off for a little less maneuverability at low speed for a little more stability at high speed and a little less dip when on the front brake hard.

If anyone has experience with the kit and install would love to get some feedback from them. I have communicated with Arteacher who had the 9º kit and he recommended it as an improvement for his type of riding.

It's all about the exchange of ideas and info and I'd appreciate any specifc details folks may have about all this.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/18/17 at 07:28:05

I know my chopper won't handle anywhere as good as even a stock machine but I only got the bike for 'fun' riding, read 'Big Grin Factor'

I am serious about good handling though - see my bobber pic - with Progressive springs and shocks fitted front and rear - she handles beautifully

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by MShipley on 05/18/17 at 12:48:52

markbuk,

I would be interested in exactly what shocks and springs you used?

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 05/18/17 at 13:52:16

You are right, low speed maneuverability is compromised. Mine has a 6 inch extension from AME and a new triple tree that is over built. Wide turns yes, you have to learn how to handle that at first. The ride otherwise is great better then stock. No flexing issues up front. I would not use the stock triple tree. The one from AME is adjustable to set the rake. Used 750 intruder shocks to raise the back to get the trail right. Not a trail carver but a good ride!

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/19/17 at 02:13:40

MShipley

I used front springs manufactured by Wirth in Germany:

Suzuki LS 650 PT/PV/PW/PX Savage NP41A Fork Springs Progressive - Wirth Germany

and the rear shocks I got from the States

Progressive Suspension - 412-4232C - 412 Series Standard 11 in Shocks, Chrome~

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/19/17 at 02:16:42

Bobber - I took my chopper out for a longish ride last night and she handled really well, comfortable and no problems with turns. I think she handles better than stock but not as good as my Bobber that has the Progressive shocks and springs fitted.Looking forward to some good weather now.

Incidentally I have removed the awful exhaust and fitted the standard pipe/muffler but had to drill some holes in the end baffle plate as the bike was tuned to run with the 'open' muffler - she runs beautifully and not even a backfire!

Just ordered a Dyna muffler on eBay - I can't live with the look of the stock silencer - sounds ok with the baffle plate drilled but gee - the stock is ugly as sin

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 05/19/17 at 14:35:01

Marebuk,

What length are your fork extensions? Mine is fine on asphalt just feels a little top heavy at low speed, nothing serious but it is there otherwise a good ride as long as you compensate for the wider turn. My exhaust is loud but I am have deaf anyway.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/20/17 at 00:39:33

I measured from top of the triple tree to the bottom of the fork legs

Standard : 800mm
Extended : 950mm

Mark

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/20/17 at 08:38:20

Bobber, I assume from post you have a 14º kit? What was involved in shock swap, was it a bolt up or more complicated? ChopperSupply indicated the 9º kit comes with 4" over tubes, my follow-up on that with them is where their response was lacking. I would like to maintain front to back level. Is it possible to see a picture?

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 05/21/17 at 07:20:18

SoC

Be happy to send a photo but I'm going to need an E-mail address, can't get it to post on this website.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/21/17 at 07:52:18

Bobber, I need to figure out how to get the little email link on forum working. I will PM email to you. Thanks.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Graven754 on 05/22/17 at 08:16:41

You guys bring up a lot of good points. Definitely wanting to stay away from the rake look. I want to keep the stock rake and just extend the fork tubes. Is it possible for me to do this with the stock triple tree or will I have to change that out too? Can I do this job with just buying forks or will I end up needing a kit?

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/22/17 at 09:00:45

Graven, If you look at the response from Blade, I believe he just added longer tubes to the original tree's. There was a post about that with reference to getting tubes from Frank's Forks. Couldn't find it but there was a previous discussion, on another thread, which actually has a comparison photo of stock trees with original tubes and with a 4" extension added.

Bobber, thanks for the photo, really nice job with that. The rear fender and tailight and turn signals are great. Thanks for the hi-res photo, have a chance to really see the detail of your efforts.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 05/22/17 at 11:23:50

SoC

Thanks it was about a two year effort, still in process of course.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by SoC on 05/22/17 at 20:01:55

Bobber, it's such a nice effort, I hope you don't mind, but I posted it here for any who has follwed this thread can see it.

Bobber's Build below:

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 05/23/17 at 00:30:35

Really nice Job! Bobber - It looks like the rear end is a Blue Collar Bobbers? They are great guys - Lance and Cheryl - like that look - I fitted one to my black Bobber. Its a shame that my chop has the 'chunky' rear end but I can't afford to get another BCB kit shipped from the States. Thanks for posting this SoC

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 06/24/17 at 07:18:53

Here is a video I shot that will give you an idea of what its like to ride with extended forks - the audio was full of clicks so hence the music
https://vimeo.com/222550973

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 06/25/17 at 16:36:20

Thanks, new exhaust is coming and yes the back end is BCB.

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 06/25/17 at 17:11:11

Marekbuk,

Nice ride no doubt. I'm not finished yet!

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 06/26/17 at 00:25:58

Here is another short movie with chest mount camera and a separate audio recorder - the fishtail silencer sounds great with no backfiring

https://vimeo.com/223094579

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 06/29/17 at 00:23:49

I've now cut the bend from the custom pipe so the fishtail is parallel to the ground - still sounds great but cleaner lines in my opinion

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by Bobber on 06/29/17 at 02:09:04

Very nice Marekbuk!

Title: Re: extended forks
Post by marekbuk on 06/29/17 at 02:16:41

Thanks Bobber - I've got to say that I'm really pleased with the handling and tuning of the engine - done by an Australian engineer, in Germany.
It out performs my Bobber in that its more powerful and does not backfire on the overrun.