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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Trumpcare scrapped... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1490392141 Message started by Serowbot on 03/24/17 at 14:49:01 |
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Title: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/24/17 at 14:49:01 They voted unanimous to scrap Obamacare over 70 times, when they knew it wouldn't really happen... but now that it's real, they can't do it... The smell of bullshit is in the air... Trump, "the Great Negotiator", can't even convince his own party... #What a Loser!... ;D |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 14:54:38 That's hilarious. You were a cheerleader for the monstrous fukkup that needs fixed and you have the balls to lau g h because someone can't UNSCREW what your porch black person screwed up |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Trippah on 03/24/17 at 15:00:30 "porch black person" is this code for a decent President compared, say ,to a Lying Sack of Sh*t? :o :o :o :o :o |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 15:12:04 It's not what I said |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by oldNslow on 03/24/17 at 15:54:20 Well doggone ! The Republicans are just as worthless as the Democrats. Who knew! I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked! I don't think I'd be spending much time gloating though if I were a Democrat. Obamacare is going to die a slow painful death without any outside intervention. Shame that quite a lot of folks are going to suffer aloneg with it while it croaks. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/24/17 at 16:19:00 24 million people would beg to differ... |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/24/17 at 16:20:32 6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:
Gee,.. that's not racist.. :-? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by oldNslow on 03/24/17 at 16:44:19 4254435E46535E45310 wrote:
About Republicans being as worthless as Democrats ? Or about Obamacare's inevitable demise ? Or both? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Dagillespi on 03/24/17 at 16:48:33 The healthcare situation sucks right now. I don't know anyone personally out of the 24 million that it's benefiting, but I do know hundreds (I mean that literally) who are being negatively affected. I sliced my pinky open and cut the tendon at the beginning of February and I've now had to pay 450 out of pocket to get it fixed. I know that's a very small amount compared to others but if it would have happened last year I wouldn't have paid a dime. We had the best health care in the state up until now it just sucks. Also I can thankfully say the pinky has not affected riding my savage. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 16:51:59 Instead of paying off the bad loans for the homeowners, we gutted ourselves for the banks. Would've cost our economy less to save the banks from their own idiocy by paying for the bad loans. Same thing with health care. The entire nation is getting screwed by the solution that I Said would suck. And, Bot, you ,louder than any, told me that my objections were RACIST. Well, they weren't. It was beingvSmart. Instead of destroying what most had in order to Pretend that Americans would have better access and lower premiums, we could have provided for the people who are in need. Means testing, yes, it's just that simple. You laugh at people who are unable to readily repair the ABSOLUTE COKKUP YOU SAID WAS A GOOD IDEA. SHUT UP. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/24/17 at 16:54:25 45637861617079110 wrote:
I believe, "porch black person", is code for; "The Wanna Be King" (Who now is standing in the Street, Crying, because he can NO LONGER, Stuff his Pockets) |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by T And T Garage on 03/24/17 at 17:08:01 594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
Ahhh... what a good little racist you are.... |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by T And T Garage on 03/24/17 at 17:09:22 5A4C5B465E4B465D290 wrote:
A - MEN!! |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 18:14:53 Yeah, you nuts in the floor and someone else is incompetent because they can't get the stink out. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/24/17 at 18:17:48 2F392E332B3E33285C0 wrote:
Who, would be the 24 million people you talk about? How may of them are; Lairs, Cheaters, Pretenders, Gimmie'ers, and IL-Legal's ? And, according to your statement: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1490289556/0 (post 11) $50.00 a MONTH, is to MUCH, to Pay for H.C. ? ;D Gee, the, REAL, Poor people can be taken care of easily. It it the, Lairs, Cheaters, Pretenders, Gimmie'ers, IL-Legal's, and LAZY people. Who are SUCKING, the MONEY and Services !!!! |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by pg on 03/24/17 at 18:27:50 5B4D5A475F4A475C280 wrote:
Why can't they take responsibility for themselves and sign up for their own insurance? Why do they need someone to hold their hand? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by T And T Garage on 03/24/17 at 19:52:12 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOihbv6VFA[/media] |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 20:59:03 Too bad Bamicare wasn't stillborn. Then we wouldn't have to fix it. Talk about inmates taking over the asylum. The left hopped up and down for Bamicare, IT FAILED, and Now, whoever can't fix your screwup is the idiot. Not YOU, right. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by T And T Garage on 03/24/17 at 21:24:46 5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:
Again, no screw up except that it didn't go far enough. Single payer should have been an option. But then, all you care about is Obama being black, right? What was that phrase?.... "porch something"? How pathetic. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/17 at 22:01:47 Yeah, because about 20 million insured because of ACA is just a terrible failure... I've typed that answer Twice. Nobody said a word. All that preening and posturing, strutting around and squawking,, and won't even respond to what I said. Ohh, didn't go Far Enough.. Right.. America is bumping on TWENTY FUKKIN TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT, and you're spending everyone's money your way. All the crap you lefties have wanted and gotten in the last 45 years,,, and we are better off how? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/25/17 at 00:24:12 7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:
name someplace better then move there |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 02:24:01 Naaah, I'll stay and fight. Trump is president because enough people are sick of what you wanted to shut it down. The pustule never won the polls. Didn't win the popular vote , either. Where's my evidence? Trumps brand outselling the waah waah lefties in the Heart of Leftyville. That's confirmation. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/25/17 at 10:03:39 nice view from up there?? without the aca my wife's two knee ops would have bankrupted us we are and have been working stiffs all our lives, making it at 114% of poverty level. not looking for a handout just a hand medical costs are insane $300 for an aspirin is immoral thankfully I EARNED the use of the VA health care system its easy to pidgin hole people when one views the world with a haughty disposition |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 11:08:39 Seems like things were working fine before they fixed it with the HMOscam. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/25/17 at 11:15:36 HMO's sure didn't help... they just added a middleman that eats up a third of what you pay... Single payer would eliminate that, and providers would save a ton in paperwork and paper-pushers... Between the HMO's cut, all the paperwork needed in MD offices and hospitals, just going to universal health would save 30 to 50%... Then,.. more regulation of costs would save more... |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 11:22:39 Okay, so they Tuned the system,created a whole new level of well paid parasites on the system, namely the medical coding people, that is a college education requirement job. Now, considering that the system survived for Soo Long while being strapped to an anchor leads me to believe there was no problem to begin with. Now, if someone wants to poo poo that, you do that, but be ready to explain WHY. AAAAND, One More Time! If you're tuning something and realize that the Adjustment caused decreased performance, what would You do? Leave the mistake in place and watch the system slowly tank or would you reverse course and go back to where you started? Which leads me to say Sabotage, with the goal being control of the industry and, us. Most of you still believe it's bubs and dems... |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/25/17 at 11:32:47 Some things do cost more because they are better... Hospital beds used to be just functional beds with wheels... Now, they are electronically adjustable, and have pulsing points to prevent bed sores, etc... That's good,... but it costs. We have MRI's CAT's, etc... treatments and tests that never existed before. Etc... ...but,.. oddly enough it doesn't seem to be raising lifespan or general health very much. We aren't keeping up with other comparable countries health wise. The secret sauce is single payer... non-profit. Preventative medicine. Less stress... stress is a killer. worrying about bills and coverage, ain't helping people to heal. Workers still get good pay... but there aren't all the rich shareholders asking for inflated pricing. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 11:57:02 Dodge, divert, pretend. The HMO idea created a burden, a BIG burden. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Trippah on 03/25/17 at 13:09:11 JOG the old system didn't work when the companies decided to stop paying for healthcare for their workers. It is too expensive given the incredible costs for MRI and pharamceuticals at $300 a pill. HMO's were a disguised rationing system because too many didn't want the Government to do it. There are many expenses to the medical system, some of them more prevalent in the black and Brown populations, others more in the white population. we could go to the kill all handicapped babies with major issues. Save a lot of money. we could kill everyone who hits 65, now that their "productive" years are over. As something like a quarter of all health costs are caused by attempts to extend failing bodies, and alleviate conditions just prior to death; we could simply send those in nursing homes on to their reward (kill them). For those of you who are squeamish, these are facts we have to face OR increase taxes on the wealthy (and perhaps add a small tax to the rest also) cause that is what it takes. As an ever increasing percent of our workforce is made up of people in healthcare (MD< Nurses, therapists, billing and coding, office staff, manufactures of medical instruments etc,) we will have to make a hard choice. Keep siphoning incredible amounts of money for the war machine or the health industry. It should be our choice but so far It isn't, with the war machine supported by the Republican party mainstream. Obamacare was an attempt to make this shift, but with the large number of mainstream Republicans it needed support from, it was a slap up I almost suspect designed to fail legislation with the future hidden from sight. The Dems don't want the Republicans to accomplish anything good, so until both sides get it together, dysfunction continues. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 14:21:16 Thirty five bucks a month for BCBS mid seventies. Age 26, single. Pre Hmo. Hospital beds had a control box with buttons. Articulated as much as now. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/25/17 at 15:44:30 77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:
40+ years ago?? that's not a comparison |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 16:07:39 Dismiss it as you wish. But, why not? Costs then versus now, how is that not a comparison? You can account for inflation, can't you? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/25/17 at 18:27:51 5B475A425F4A5D4C4340414A2F0 wrote:
Well how about 3 years ago ? Wife Broke her Femur. 8 days in Hospital, + + + The Hospital Bill, ALONE, was, $58,540.00 I requested a Itemized Statement, (as the law in Minn) I received 10% of one, requested again, got another 10%, this went on each week for a Month. Then the finical adm called. I told him, “You have NOT sent a Itemized Bill”. He set up a meeting, with 6 heads of the departments. Went their. Laid down a little ‘digital recorder’, and said: “I’ll be recording this, as my ’note’ making skills are lacking” 6 Department Heads looked at me with the, ‘Doe in the Headlight, look’. Did NOT get Answers, only SPIN. (One in fact, when I asked why they billed, 4,250.00 for 4.5 HOURS in the major surgery room, and then a day later billed, 5,200.00 for FIFTEEN MINUETS, to put in a, ‘umbrella’, (so no possible blood clots). She, Looked at her watch, said: “OMG, I Have to go, I forgot a important meeting I have to go to”) After the meeting was done. The finical adm, asked me in the hall: “Well What do you think”. I Told him: “I will pay my share, but I will NOT GET RAPED” 2 Days Later, I got a Bill for 15,000.00 A, $43,540 REDUCTION !!!!!!!!!!!! Yea, HMO’s were not the answer, and Most Certainly ‘bamm a Care’, is NOT either. Lets see, your LS650/S40 won’t start. So you re-wire a switch. Still don’t start. Then you re-wire another switch, Still don’t start, and then, (On and On and ON) ALL the time, NOT, going Back, and undoing what you did. and now you are at your 5th, ’not starting’, after your, ‘fixes’. and it still won’t start. HOW, do you know, which of your, ‘fixes’, need to be, ‘fixed’ ??????? Yet the, ‘Fairy Dust Sprinklers’ (etc) are ALL Standing in the Street, saying: “See, See, See” (Because they were TOLD, to do that) When it is actually, “Let’s Get It Right this time” |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 19:06:47 Trump promised Repeal and Replace. Offered a crappy, sorry excuse of a bill. That it failed never surprised me. And NOW what happens? Bamicare will die on its own. Brilliant. The dems will have to own that. It'll be the bubs fault, won't it Bot? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/25/17 at 21:01:17 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
the bubs hold the purse strings they will have to own it!!! |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/17 at 21:33:55 No, lefties shoved Bamicare down our throats. Everyone who had a brain opposed it. What does having the purse string have to do with anything? Explain that, okay? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/26/17 at 05:18:21 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
I agree. In my view, this was Trump's first failure. It's not getting knocked down, it's how you get up that matters. He promised he wouldn't let me down. Ok, I give him this one learning experience. Now Mr President, go do what you said. REPEAL and replace. Build the Wall. Shut down immigration from dangerous countries with no real serious passport control. Stop the ridiculousness of committing to tens of thousands of refugees from nations with widespread Isalmic Fundamentalists. Pretty darn simple to do list sir. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/17 at 06:45:55 Let's not ignore the absolutely awful crap Trump is saying. REBUILD the military? It's insane. Before we dump billions into the wall,let's move existing people and equipment to the border. See how that works. Repositioning existing assets instead of spending billions, get the border under control. Either he never intended to break the status quo or someone has explained to him the price of trying. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by oldNslow on 03/26/17 at 06:52:08 Quote:
Or maybe it's beginning to dawn on him that he's just the President, not the Emperor, and that the legislature - Republicans and Democrats alike, are not on his side. The only thing surprising about this fiasco is that anyone is surprised by it. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/17 at 07:10:11 He's the one who is saying REBUILD the military. He's a frikking neocon. I'm not at all surprised. I expected it. I'm also still less unhappy than I think I would have been had The Pustule won. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/26/17 at 07:10:41 The only thing surprising about this fiasco is that anyone is surprised by it. I agree Oldnslow. Status Quo does not go quietly into the night. It takes a hard nosed Mo-Fo to break that up. I remember once I was living in Kansas City working for Penske Truck Leasing as a controller. Our location was doing okay in our current company's opinion. Then Penske merged the truck leasing division with General Electric. They came in with a different mindset. The conversation with the managers around the conference table went like this: "We think Kansas City is worth $10 million in revenue. Either the people around this table will get that or whoever sits at this table next will get it, but one way or another, we're going book $10 million in Kansas City". One maintenance manager objected with reasons why it would be impossible to get $10 million. Yea, he wasn't sitting in that chair for very long...... Guess what? We got the $10 million the next year. I suspect Trump has looked at people in conference rooms and made statements like that and then made it happen. Your point is well made: Congress can't be fired, not easily anyway. Trump is right of course. ObamaCare is a financial disaster. We can't have everything else the government does AND 'free' healthcare. Sew likes to point out other nations being able to do it, but other nations haven't obligated themselves to the massive unfunded liabilities we have. Hey, lets be honest. I'd love to be able to remove any thought of financial pitfalls due to health issues completely out of my life. Who wouldn't? But I've also been involved in the ins and outs of running organizations for a long time and I know wishing don't get it done. Sooner or later, the rubber has to meet the road. ObamaCare is wishful thinking, pretending it's a solution when it's not. It is the epitome of kicking the can down the road. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/17 at 07:32:42 Bamicare = painting Life Preserver on an anvil. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/26/17 at 07:35:11 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
What?... What is so uniquely different in America?... Be specific. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/26/17 at 08:20:49 243B3D3A2720112111293B377C4E0 wrote:
;) E X P L A N A T I O N: the con gress can tweak the funding for the aca purse strings = financial resources |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/17 at 08:47:09 I'm not understanding exactly What congress would Tweak. People are not buying Bamicare,and those who are have been screwed by rising premiums, high deductibles, imbalanced copay, leaving the consumer shafted. What's congress supposed to do? What's the Bamicare bill's legal requirements that congress Can address? You just don't want to admit that you supported a turd because it was sold to us as a wonderfully tasty chocolate bar. Blame the bubs.. That's rich. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/26/17 at 09:12:56 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
your lack of understanding is painfully obvious.. last chance .. the congress controls the money that funds the aca what party has the majority? the cant agree on anything bubs I admit I support the aca you seem to be obsessed with fecal matter must be time to change our panties |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/26/17 at 09:36:52 7D6B7C61796C617A0E0 wrote:
What?... What is so uniquely different in America?... Be specific.[/quote] Bot, could you read the Forum, you are the Moderator of? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1490289556/15#20 Reply 20 Think that would answer you question, a day before you asked it. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/26/17 at 09:54:03 Well Lets see, The, Lefties, Socialists, Progressives, etc, are all claiming a victory, and that, “bam a care”, is better than the Proposed alternative, which is not being discussed. And the Lefties, Socialists, Progressives, etc, are all claiming a victory, Because, they all say, the Reps, in control, can’t agree, and Infer, that THEY, believe, “bam a care”, is better. Gee, could it ‘Possibly” be, that the PEOPLE, who Voted for Trump, TOLD, their representatives : “To Fast, Get it Right”. And they LISTENED !!!!!!! Unfortunately, That is NOT a Concept, Azz Lickers understand. (so they just cry and spin) |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/26/17 at 09:56:13 2036213C24313C27530 wrote:
What?... What is so uniquely different in America?... Be specific.[/quote] I've tried to go over this with you before, but honestly, you post funny smiley face and then disappear. If you want to stick it through to the end, fine, I'll oblige. Not today however. Just made offer on new house which was accepted. My life's gonna be busy for a couple months! But, one short version is 1) much of the world, NATO especially, depends upon our military. Perhaps more in the past, but still that's the case. That cost money. A lot of money. You could say we don't need to do that, but who would you rather be carrying the big stick; the USA or someone else? Look up the cost for military, servicing the debt, entitlements and now add whatever healthcare cost you think single payer would be. (by the way, whatever number you come up with, add 25% or show me history of how government programs always come in under budget....) Can we do all that? 2) Competition improves service and lowers cost. Always. Never fails. Do we have competition in healthcare insurance now? No, we do not. Why not try that first? 3) Without the profit motive, why would R&D continue? Is there a technical product or service where the profit motive is removed and where you can show continued funding in R&D? 4) there's a perception that single payer is paradise. I've spoke to many people around the world about this. It's not. Services are rationed. 5) finally, the biggie for me: the USA has moved forward by keeping certain basic principals. Granted, some are under attack; free speech, free press for example. But are there products or services the State can force you to participate in against your will or pay a fine? Failure to pay that fine brings jail or forfeiture of property. If you earn income, you have to pay federal tax. There are other federal fees, but those are based upon usage. How can you constitutionally say a US citizen MUST obtain healthcare for himself or pay a fine or risk arrest? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/27/17 at 06:04:22 I was reading an article and saw the paragraph below and thought it was perfect as a follow-up to my number five above. People need to be more involved in healthcare decisions and that will force cost lower. It's no different then auto insurance. Think about this, imagine automobile insurance gradually became a fringe benefit provided by employers. What would happen to the cost and service level of automobile insurance? Would it go up or want to go down? Before the Affordable Care Act (ACA) passed in March 2010, President Obama repeatedly promised that the typical family’s health premiums would go down by (sometimes “up to” but frequently “on average”) $2,500. That decline did not occur because the ACA strengthened the control that insurance companies—as opposed to patients—have over health care spending. In fact, Americans’ increasing dependence on health insurance over the last seven decades has been a major contributor to exploding health costs. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/27/17 at 06:12:45 as Gomer Pyle would say surprise surprise! I posted my last message after I read the first paragraph of this article and then lo and behold, as I read on, it hit up on the exact same topic I was thinking of which is namely contrasting health and auto insurance. is the key to getting healthcare cost is under control actually less insurance rather than more? "If a politician promised to reduce the cost of driving by forcing auto insurers to pay for our cars, gasoline, tires, engine oil, windshield-wiper fluid, and all the other items and services we need to be on the road, we would all understand why our premiums would skyrocket—because those added costs would have to be accounted for. And that’s just the beginning. Since drivers would not pay for our cars directly, we wouldn’t be careful about how we managed their costs. We wouldn’t search for cheaper gas or efficient mechanics, or care whether a more expensive tire was really worth it. We’d go to Maserati dealers for their latest model without worrying about how to finance the purchase, and simply tell the salesperson which insurer to bill. Obviously, auto insurers would respond the same way health insurers have: Build networks of dealers, gas stations, and mechanics; and impose all kinds of rules and bureaucracies between them and drivers. However, because insurers are removed from drivers’ experiences, those rules would be ineffective—just like they have proved in health care." |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/17 at 09:14:40 465A475F425740515E5D5C57320 wrote:
your lack of understanding is painfully obvious.. last chance .. the congress controls the money that funds the aca what party has the majority? the cant agree on anything bubs I admit I support the aca you seem to be obsessed with fecal matter must be time to change our panties[/quote] Just what Funding is needed from Congress that isn't being provided? Are the costs increasing? Gee, if IDIOTS hadn't supported this magnificent trainwreck, we would not be having this imitation conversation. You haven't explained exactly how Congress will be to blame for the collapse of Bamicare. Their obligations, whatever they are, are spelled out. You haven't shown me anything that would lead me to believe that there is some open ended provision making dumping increasing volumes of money into a failing system. No, I Told you it would fail. And I was right. And Congress CAN'T keep it afloat. You can dig up the reasons, but you don't want to. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/27/17 at 10:34:12 now tweety is appointing his sil Kushner to revamp the government and "run it like a company" how many bankruptcies has tweety filed?? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/27/17 at 10:38:34 the fed has spent LESS $$ on health care since the aca was enacted shared risk is the base of the aca, too much like socialism for the right wingers JOG if congress cuts the funding the aca dies im done trying to get through to that scared skull of yours |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/17 at 11:59:51 It's FAILING now. They would be insane to change anything. If they cut funding then the lefties will pretend THAT'S why it failed. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by thumperclone on 03/27/17 at 12:59:23 you are being lied to by biased sources |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/17 at 13:16:15 CNBC You were lied to by someone. etting even more expensive. Deductibles for individuals enrolled in the lowest-priced Obamacare health plans will average more than $6,000 in 2017, the first time that threshold has been cracked in the three years that Affordable Care Act marketplaces have been in business, a new analysis finds. Families enrolled in bronze plans will have average deductibles of $12,393, according to the study by the consumer insurance comparison site HealthPocket. A deductible is the amount of money someone must personally pay out of pocket for health services before insurance covers the remaining cost. HealthPocket also found that that average premiums, or monthly payments, for bronze plans nationwide will increase 21 percent next year for people who earn too much to qualify for Obamacare subsidies. A 40-year-old unsubsidized bronze plan customer would pay $350.23 each month for their health coverage, compared to $289.88 per month this year |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by verslagen1 on 03/27/17 at 14:37:01 5E425F475A4F58494645444F2A0 wrote:
40+ years ago?? that's not a comparison[/quote] Had a talk with my Doc today... yes, that discussion. :o He said, before bammacare, he paid $70 for his son's healthcare. Now he pays $400. He said funding is on the back of middle, not on high income. This was supported by a graph showing low getting a couple percent, middle paying a percent or so and high earners paying a few tenths of a percent. But that's buried in a bill no politician ever read. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/17 at 17:23:46 Premiums beyond a car payment and deductibles of six thousand and up. But, hey, look how many more are insured! It's a Frikken Feline Butt Award and every one of its supporters should be too embarrassed to even Have an opinion on anything. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/28/17 at 19:03:06 71526F4C4E55525B3C0 wrote:
And you know, how ALL, the, ‘Bankruptcies’, work. You KNOW, how some, Can MAKE MORE MONEY ! Right ???????? Or is it just, 'Parroting', what someone else said ? Because the term, "Bankrupt", Has a meaning to those who do NOT know, of the various kinds, and what each one, or form of, they can do. ????? [/quote] [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/29/17 at 05:58:55 Another important statistic I found related to the, what should be an easy to understand concept but apparently is not, that when consumers are actively involved in purchasing goods, prices drop and service increases as competition forces competitors to attract customers. Today, 7 in 8 health care dollars are paid by Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance companies. Because there's no real health care market, costs rose 467 percent over the last three decades. By contrast, prices fell in the few medical areas not covered by insurance, like plastic surgery and LASIK eye care. Patients shop around, forcing health providers to compete. The National Center for Policy Analysis found that from 1999 to 2011 the price of traditional LASIK eye surgery dropped from over $2,100 to about $1,700. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by buster6315 on 03/29/17 at 19:17:20 11372C3535242D450 wrote:
Lying sack of dung? How many times did Obama say we could keep our plan & doctor? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/30/17 at 19:55:34 The Z blog Humans live in a finite world. The universe may be infinite, but the world of man is finite. There’s only so much stuff. Because there is only so much stuff, there’s always going to be a shortage of the stuff that people tend to like or need. It’s not always a desperate shortage, but there’s never enough so that everyone can take what they want. There’s always going to be one more hand reaching for the last item just after it is gone. This is a basic axiom of life and one of the foundation truths of economics. It’s even a foundation truth of communism, which assumes scarcity can only be mitigated, but never fully eliminated, by the elimination of profit. Economists of all stripes work from the assumption that scarcity is an immutable fact of the human condition. The question they wrestle with is how to increase supply and distribute the results. What this means is that all goods and services must be rationed. Since there’s never enough to meet the maximum demand, there has to be some way to say “no” to people demanding the goods or services. The most common way to do this is price. The poor guy who wants a Mercedes is told he cannot have a Mercedes by the big numbers on the price tag. This is how the supply of luxury cars is rationed. The other way to ration goods and services is for men with guns to take control of the supply and create rules for who can and who cannot have access to the stuff. Rocket propelled grenades are not very expensive. An RPG can be had for around $500 and the rounds are about $100. The government, at least in America, controls the supply of RPG’s and determines who can have them. In other words, the government rations the supply of RPG’s in America. This is an iron law of economics. All goods and services are rationed. This is true for health care too. There are no exceptions to this law. Thus, the First Truth of Health Care: No health care plan or system can ever be taken seriously unless it addresses, up front, how it will say “No, you cannot have it” to people who want it. At some point, someone has to tell the patient they cannot have whatever it is they want or need. In America, rationing is mostly done by price, but increasingly the state is taking over this role. In Britain, most people are denied services by the long lines for those services. The long wait times for basic services is a form of rationing. If you can deliver X per day and the demand is for 2X, you solve this by giving people numbers and having them wait a long time until their number is called. This is socialized medicine in nutshell. The fact is, most people could pay out of pocket, for their health services. It is only when poor people get old or have accidents when they need someone to pay for their medical care. Most middle-class people should be able to put away a little every payday to reserve for their later years. That is, if they were not being taxed into poverty by the current system in America that has seen prices rise five times the inflation rate. Thus, the Second Truth of Health Care: The current insurance model is just a wealth transfer from the middle-class to the health care industry, in order to cover the cost of poor people and the metastasizing layer of people who live off the system. Those is really just a tax. Most people use about 5% of their plan for themselves, the rest is used to pay for poor people and the army of people who work in the system. That’s the thing politicians never want to discuss, which is the whole reason they are talking about health care in the first place. How does a modern society pay for the poor, who cannot afford needed medical services? How to we address the free riders on the system? More important, how much are we willing to pay for the health services to the poor? There’s a limit to all of this and that’s the question that always has to be answered. Of course, one of the paradoxes of modern life is that you can get very rich off the poor, which is why liquor stores and furniture rental shops dot the ghetto. In the social welfare game, the point is to lay a massive guilt trip on the public, and grease the right political palms, in order to get the middle class to look the other way as their money is siphoned off for one program or another for the poor, always administered by a rich guy coincidentally. Thus, the Third Truth of Health Care: Health services are a massive skimming operation. Today, the one area of the economy that “grows” is the health care industry. Every year, more and more people pile into that wagon, mostly in administrative roles. The number of nurses and doctors does not grow very much, but the number of bureaucrats grows like a weed. Then you have the pill makers, machine makers, research people and lawyers. There are always lots and lots of lawyers. The health care industry is massive and government dependent. It’s why rub rooms are now called message therapy centers. They are angling to get it on the racket, by having their service declared an essential health care service. That way, you will be paying for some guy to get a happy ending. That’s why reforming health care has become an impossibility. As soon as anyone makes any noises about fixing the system, the army of lobbyists, hired by every vested interest, shows up to bury the reformers. If they are not able to kill the idea of reform entirely, they set about corrupting it into another grift that their clients can use to get a free shot at your wallet. The only people not represented in these efforts are the voters. They get no say. This is the main reason Trump’s efforts to address the problems of ObamaCare failed last week. What Ryan and the other crooks in the GOP were hoping to do is pass a bill that made it easier for their paymasters to skim money from the rate payers, while providing fewer services. Ryan’s bill was just an attempt to help the people feeding at the trough get a little fatter off the middle-class. Its failure suggests we have reached the end phase. Talk to anyone responsible for paying health insurance premiums and they will tell you that the rates are reaching the point where they cannot be paid. When premiums are going up by multiples of inflation, there can be only one result. Once rates pass a certain level, people stop paying those premiums. You get black markets, non-compliance and a system that can only persist through brute coercion. Soon after you get collapse. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/30/17 at 21:16:22 Bravo, brilliant job.. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/31/17 at 04:49:40 It does no good pointing out logic. Just like the arguments against minimum wage. My stupid little city (surprise, surprise run by Democrats) is in the middle of their push for a $15 min wage. Prices will increase and some jobs will go away. A very few will make just enough money to keep them trapped in $hit jobs. Yea! Let's celebrate! (dumb$hits) By the way, has anyone else noticed the technique being used by more and more business (mostly restaurants, but others) where you perform task typically done by an employee? More and more semi-fast food places have you bus the table when finished. More and more restaurants have order and pay at your table Ipads. I've also noticed a greater number of drink re-fill stations. I'm not talking McDonalds but sit down places. All these things together eliminate one or two servers per shift. If you've flown lately, you might have noticed you can now check your own luggage in, attached the tracking sticker and drop it off next to the X-Ray machine. Fewer and fewer skycaps. The point is, wait until these $15 minimum wage laws hit. That money is coming out of the owners pockets and he'll do exactly what anyone would do, including crybaby liberals: he'll find a way to recoup that lost revenue. He'll either hire fewer people, raise prices or find a way to cut services. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/17 at 06:31:35 If it's possible to legislate Wealth, why settle for near poverty? If employers are simply required to pay X amount of dollars And it's just Obvious that they can, according to the same bunch who demanded Bamicare be passed, why not go ahead and legislate a decent living wage? Fifteen bucks an hour isn't enough. I think it should be closer to thirty. How about fifty, since with just a swipe with a pen so many people can be lifted from poverty and into a life of having the things that everyone deserves? The same people who would call me heartless because I say there should be no minimum wage I call idiots for thinking that a business can Stay in business while being extorted. Of COURSE there are big very profitable businesses that can, but the majority can't. A high minimum wage closes the door to start up businesses, typically under capitalized and trying to build a customer base faster than it loses money. And, BECAUSE of the mismanagement of everything from economic policy and foreign policy and immigration control, we have a Glut of unemployed people who would be taken advantage of by the elimination of minimum wage laws, so, as Correct as no minimum wage laws Would be, considering the state of affairs, it's not doable right now. In a less manipulated world, where the labor pool doesn't exceed the job market, people can get paid fairly. Labor Is a commodity, and when supply outstrips demand, it's value drops. And when the need for labor outstrips supply, the pay goes up. Imagine an oil boom in a place with only a limited number of men. The able bodied few would be Wanted by everyone who had a drilling rig. They would be trying to recruit men away from the others. They would be forced to pay higher wages and offer perks and benefits. Now, turn that around. Unemployed people who Need a job will work for peanuts. Wouldn't you? |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by WebsterMark on 03/31/17 at 06:57:10 Build a wall, deport illegals, and watch wages rise on their own. Pay enough, and people will do any job. Liberals are the worst. They are the cause of much of this nation's misery. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/17 at 07:14:12 Pay enough, and people will do any job. That's why roughnecking pays more than burger flipping. Demand that people who are in a controlled environment, knowing as close to nothing about anything, be Rewarded for their efforts at fifteen bucks an hour, and what do we reasonably expect the people who are working Hard in harsh conditions to think? If some kid is making fifteen bucks an hour, working inside, and you're outside, swinging a sledge hammer or pick and shovel or busting bags of bentonite clay and dumping it into a jet line, what's reasonable Now? I'm ready for the people who were so wrong about Bamicare and believe They, not the markets, should decide what people earn, well, get paid, to step up and counter the arguments against their ideas. Let's get on with it. Splain WHY you're right. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/31/17 at 07:15:46 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
So you think a higher minimum wage will cripple small business, but deporting low wage immigrants will create a boon in good paying jobs?... What alchemy is that?... |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/17 at 07:23:50 You don't want to understand,do you? If there are fifty people who apply for a crap job, you can get away with paying crap. If nobody wants your job, you'll hafta pay better. Wages are dictated by the markets. Oversupply of unemployed people is gonna drive wages down. I really can't waste the time to explain what would be a few hours in business class for someone who has demonstrated such ability to avoid what is so easily understood. A Job can't Pay more than the Doing of the work EARNS the employer. But lefties aren't limited by reality. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Serowbot on 03/31/17 at 07:35:20 I don't believe you've ever been anywhere near a business class... A $15 per hour minimum wage will cripple a small business,... but take away low wage workers and that same small business will pay a living wage?.... This is "rob Peter to pay Paul" business logic.... ;D |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/17 at 07:53:45 You're infuriating. Intentionally obtuse or just unable to see? Read what I explained. You pretend there is no middle ground. What happens to wages when hundreds apply for a crap job? The employer KNOWS they have a captive audience. They can pay crap and f ill the job. Does that mean that they can pay MORE than the value of the work? No, it's not that simple. You don't Want to understand, because then you would have to stop pretending that employers can pay fifteen dollars in an hour to someone who is Part of a Team that produces hamburgers. It's not sane. Instead of attacking, Explain WHY you're right. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MShipley on 03/31/17 at 08:20:02 WebsterMark, I think you are right on. The problem with Americans is we look around and compare ourselves to other Americans or a few other Western Culture countries. The problem is We are not the norm in a world environment, in fact we are quite opposite of the norm. When we started this company 32 years ago 100 percent of the materials we distribute were made in American today maybe 40 percent is made in America. It's funny I like to watch the show "Shark Tank" and what is the first thing everybody looks to "Foreign manufacturing", in fact one guy insisted he make his product in the US and he got laughed out of the tank. The government is trying very hard to keep the peace in this country buy stealing from Peter to pay Paul because they are aware of what is going to happen when it all starts falling apart. No one in America is willing to take less and do what is right but that is what we are faced with. Here in Richmond the city is Broke like the rest of the cities. The mayor asked the people to do one thing, can they bag their own leaves instead of the city in order to lower cost. You would have thought they ask to turn off the electricity. The people tried to do something about our situation to elect someone outside the norm in hopes of getting something done but that wont happen. The entrenched establishment is going to take him out eventually or at least not let anything happen till they again are back in power. In 5 years we will be 30 trillion in debt in ten years 40 trillion. There is really only one solution because every single country is in debt as much as we are. And that is to form one world government that can not be in debt to itself and eliminating all debts. Actually I am quite surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. Of course we all know how this will work out.....in the words of the Terminator "we are destined to destroy ourselves, it's in our nature". Come Lord Jesus! |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Paraquat on 03/31/17 at 09:29:28 3224332E36232E35410 wrote:
So you think a higher minimum wage will cripple small business, but deporting low wage immigrants will create a boon in good paying jobs?... What alchemy is that?...[/quote] Ritu Shah Burnham doesn’t want to go out of business, but says she can’t afford the city’s mandated wage hikes. “I’ve let one person go since April 1, I’ve cut hours since April 1, I’ve taken them myself because I don’t pay myself,” she says. “I’ve also raised my prices a little bit, there’s no other way to do it.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/04/30/and-here-is-as-we-said-the-effect-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-on-employment/#1662178a1fe9 --Steve |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/17 at 10:37:40 If a guy has fifty women who would go out with him, he doesn't really hafta be extra careful about how he treats them. If she's not happy, he can just grab the next one. If an employer has a huge pool of unemployed people to pick from, all desperate for a paycheck, he can hire for next to nothing and treat them like dirt. Eliminate as many people from the labor pool as possible and force employers to bid against each other for employees. Wages go up, how the employees get treated improves. The employer is forced to pay what the work is worth. No sacker or burger flipper can produce enough monetary benefit to the bottom line to justify fifteen bucks an hour. I'm limited to just explaining it. I can't understand it for you, too. |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by Paraquat on 03/31/17 at 11:10:44 Remember when insurance was an incentive for hiring employees? --Steve |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by pg on 03/31/17 at 18:52:39 Interesting point. [smiley=thumbup.gif] Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Trumpcare scrapped... Post by MnSpring on 03/31/17 at 19:00:13 Yep, remember that clearly. Yet Now, “What Does It Matter”, Because, ’someone else’ is going to take care of it ! |
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