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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Not sure if we can talk about oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1488060907 Message started by Buster on 02/25/17 at 14:15:07 |
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Title: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 02/25/17 at 14:15:07 Just passed the 1k mark on my 2015 and had planned to do my own oil changes, especially since local Suzuki dealer charges $119.00/hour flat rate... Had planned to use Suzuki 10w40 conventional with about 1 oz of Redline Zddp added during service, but I've decided to try some Motul 3000 10w40 instead. Can't seem to find out what the Zddp ppm rating for this oil is and wondered if any members may know. Also, any opinions or experiences using Motul would be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 02/25/17 at 15:01:04 The folks who know and love their Savages......we use Rotella T. We know it works, we know that it has the needed ZDDP, and we know that there are no friction modifiers that can hurt the clutch. You can add a bit of Redline ZDDP if you want - but it probably doesn't need it. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/25/17 at 15:21:15 The Buster , Save your money, buy a manual or 2 , I have a Clymer & a factory one too. Very simple bike to do all your own maintenance. The most important thing to do right is installation of the oil filter correctly !!! Put it wrong it will ruin the engine !!! Dealerships even screw it up , so pay attention!!! Others will chime in and tell you the same thing. It will go in either way !!! The hole in the filter must go inwards and you should be looking at the side with no hole before the cover goes on !!! If you don't understand how I described it ask us !!! Hate hearing about the results of a failed installation!!! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by eau de sauvage on 02/25/17 at 17:30:21 The hardest thing about changing the oil yourself if 1. finding the drain plug, it looks like an engine casing bolt and it's not where you might expect it. Once you have successfully identified it, you can move on to the next most difficult part of the oil change, and that is working out that even though it's on the left side of the bike you access it from the right side. After that you're golden. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Kris01 on 02/25/17 at 18:27:44 As much as we push Rotella, why are people always trying to find an alternative? ::) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/25/17 at 20:00:02 49706B713233020 wrote:
Because it's inexpensive, therefore it can't be as good as the expensive oils with awesome marketing and fancy ad campaigns. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by kojones on 02/26/17 at 02:44:05 1D243F256667560 wrote:
Because one can't find Rotella in Europe :'( |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 02/26/17 at 03:40:52 696D686D6C6771020 wrote:
Because one can't find Rotella in Europe :'([/quote] OK....exception noted. Buster is in Oklahoma......Rotella will be easy to find (and pay for) there. ;) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by hotrod on 02/26/17 at 05:43:12 I use Rotella in everything; Mazda, Harley, Savage. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/26/17 at 09:31:50 Oil wars make for great reading and arguments ! So have at it ! We enjoy the entertainment ! So do tell why your prefered oil is better than Rotella. I dare you ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 02/26/17 at 09:37:23 1B3C3D3D2530490 wrote:
Are you saying that NO ONE can make a better oil? Nothing else can ever come along? I guess there is no such thing as progress in your world! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/17 at 09:39:58 I went to Tractor Supply, the usual Rotella 15/40 , always there, spot. The T3 is now T 4,the lone quarts of T 3 are Five Bucks,, Gallons of T4 are $13.00, So, I looked and read and found no ZDDP numbers anywhere.. Questions to the learned.. Is the T4 gonna protect the cam as is or do I need to buy a bottle of Red Line? If I need it, how much should I add to a gallon? I would open a gallon, add, shake it up, or, do it however you guys say.. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/26/17 at 09:50:31 I read here to just add 1 ounce of redline to the engine during the oil change. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by verslagen1 on 02/26/17 at 09:56:47 455C5051585A5B415740565E504C50350 wrote:
Collectively, we've spent more time and effort in the selection of Rot T then you've been alive. Don't disrespect that. But if you've found some new oil that promises to make Rot T look like sand, then we're all ears. Show us the oil spec's, show us the engine tests, show us that you've spent more than 1 minute talking to the stealership guy that this is the gold standard. Other than that... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/rage/look-of-disapproval-rage-face-smiley-emoticon.png (http://www.sherv.net/) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/26/17 at 10:02:01 Peidmont , I need to prove nothing , if you think you have a better oil , you better be able to back it up. Progression has nothing to do with it , proving it does ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/17 at 10:33:48 594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
Ruttly said I read here to just add 1 ounce of redline to the engine during the oil change But was that the T3 or 4? At around 1200 PPM, the ZDDP starts doing damage.. The T3, alone has seen one engine make 150,000 miles and everything passed inspection except rings and maybe valve guide and IIRC, valve stems were looking ready to give up. I was really hoping to find gallons of T3, so I didn't pay close attention. I apologize for needing to have it repeated, |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/26/17 at 11:10:47 JOG , That was the old Rotella recipe not sure about the newer Rotella , that's what I read here on forum. Maybe someone can help us with it ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by youzguyz on 02/26/17 at 12:06:59 382721263B3C0D3D0D35272B60520 wrote:
Ruttly said I read here to just add 1 ounce of redline to the engine during the oil change But was that the T3 or 4? At around 1200 PPM, the ZDDP starts doing damage.. The T3, alone has seen one engine make 150,000 miles and everything passed inspection except rings and maybe valve guide and IIRC, valve stems were looking ready to give up. I was really hoping to find gallons of T3, so I didn't pay close attention. I apologize for needing to have it repeated, [/quote] If you are talking about my engine.. T6 |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 02/26/17 at 13:49:50 302925242D2F2E342235232B253925400 wrote:
Better in whose opinion? The EPA....the guys who are taking out the ZDDP and ruining our cams? The guys that are adding friction modifiers and making our clutches slip? Sometimes "new and improved" isn't the right answer for old technology. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/17 at 14:55:22 Well, if it was good enough for Youzguys, I can see that, but I don't know if I wanna spend that much money on the backhoe oil. I don't know how it all stacks up.. I don't mind adding a bit of Red Line, but I don't wanna go overboard. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by youzguyz on 02/26/17 at 15:53:02 27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:
T6 costs, roughly, twice as much as T4/T3. Oil change interval is greater for T6. I try to remember to change my oil at 8,000 miles. Sometimes, it will be 10,000 before I get to it. For my motorcycle (at least now that I am not throwing oil out the valves), T6 makes more sense. I don't like to change the oil, I would rather ride. If your backhoe uses a significant amount of oil, and/or you enjoy changing the oil and/or there is some other reason your backhoe should have the less expensive oil, then.. yes, use the conventional oil. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 02/26/17 at 16:04:29 A 2 week old VOA of Rotella T4 10W-30 https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4304492/Rotella_t4_10w30#Post4304492 Here is some base numbers on recent Rotella T that had run in a diesel for 30,000Kms (about 19,000 miles) Started out stout and held up well https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4312676/gonew/1/Rotella_T_15W40_30,000_Kms_On_#UNREAD |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/26/17 at 19:07:11 Ah yes , once again Ruttly has stirred the pot of the oil discussions/arguments ! I still like hearing all the pros & cons of it all. We need at least 2 oil wars a year so newbies can learn the errors of their ways ! I've been smiling all day ! I couldn't help myself , I simply threw the bait out , I wish real fish were that easy to catch ! I must be Evil ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by eau de sauvage on 02/26/17 at 19:34:26 @Buster, Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what oil you use as long as there's no friction mods it's got about 1200 of zddp, just get in touch with the tech department of the oil manufacturers and ask them the zinc content I have always got an immediate and detailed reply from any oil company I've made a tech inquiry to. We don't have Rotella in Australia, so all I'm concerned about is spending an extra $20 dollars on an oil that is exactly the same as a cheaper one. 042D2121293E7D4C0 wrote:
It makes a good sauce for bangers and mash too! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by gizzo on 02/26/17 at 19:49:27 @ eau de sauvage: if it's any help, Penrite HPR Diesel is fine for the Cabbage. Yeah it's a bit more exxy than what our US brothers are used to paying for Rotella but in the long run it's no biggie. I'm buying in bulk on special and using it in all my bikes. That's all I have to say about oil. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by eau de sauvage on 02/26/17 at 21:12:45 23393D3F3E003122242239343735500 wrote:
Yep, I think we may have had this conversation before? Anyway yeah I had settled on that, was going to get the HPR GAS 10 15W50 but I bought the wrong one by mistake and got the HPR Diesel 10 10W40 which does not have the Jaso badge like the GAS 10 but it's not friction modified and it does have a motorbike on the front which is what confused me. I've recently put it in the GS500 and I was surprised to find it running quite cool, no problems yet so I think I'm OK to use it on the Savage next change, it's got the right zinc. I have been warned by Penrite though that the formula on the HPR series could change in the future and may not be suitable, so to always check the label. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by gizzo on 02/27/17 at 03:46:05 Huh. YeH I think your right. And you mentioned that you'd heard from penrite that things might change. I should pay more attention :-[ . On with the oil war then... |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 02/27/17 at 03:56:50 The funny things is.....Buster has not signed back onto the forum since he started this thread! I guess he is keeping his head low...until the bullets stop whizzing overhead! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 02/27/17 at 05:07:03 Some good reading here. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4267945/1 Here's Harley's HD oil VOA https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3575297/Harley_Davidson_HD360_20W/50_V#Post3575297 |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/27/17 at 06:17:52 Dave , He's a smart boy ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 02/27/17 at 10:34:36 7B404D5A4B475C5A4149445B280 wrote:
I ordered a WIX analysis kit - Will do a VOA test and post all the good & bad results of the oil analysis. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 02/27/17 at 11:52:58 Are you going to do a VOA or a UOA ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 02/27/17 at 12:14:18 3B3A35343736313033020 wrote:
VOA first and if it looks pretty fierce, I will probably follow up with a UOA. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 02/27/17 at 12:20:32 Voa ? Uoa? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 02/27/17 at 12:46:50 VOA - Virgin Oil Analysis UOA - Used Oil Analysis |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by zipidachimp on 02/27/17 at 13:51:25 Hard to believe but Wally was sold out of T4 when I crossed the border last week. Luckily I have a bottle of Redline I can use with the stuff I bought. Oil and gas are loads cheaper in USA. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 02/27/17 at 17:05:32 gas is cheaper Stateside - oil, not so much anymore. With the exchange oil on sale here is likely cheaper |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/03/17 at 13:15:10 756671706F6264666D32030 wrote:
Collectively, we've spent more time and effort in the selection of Rot T then you've been alive. Don't disrespect that. But if you've found some new oil that promises to make Rot T look like sand, then we're all ears. Show us the oil spec's, show us the engine tests, show us that you've spent more than 1 minute talking to the stealership guy that this is the gold standard. Other than that... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/rage/look-of-disapproval-rage-face-smiley-emoticon.png (http://www.sherv.net/)[/quote] Sorry, but just because YOU say so, doesn't cut it. My only remark is that there have been great strides in oil. Don't disrespect that! You seem to be pretty easy at throwing insults! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/03/17 at 13:17:24 1E39383820354C0 wrote:
I am not saying for you to "prove" anything. But I doubt that you (or all of you have the final word. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/03/17 at 13:24:47 0A313C2B3A362D2B3038352A590 wrote:
Better in whose opinion? The EPA....the guys who are taking out the ZDDP and ruining our cams? The guys that are adding friction modifiers and making our clutches slip? Sometimes "new and improved" isn't the right answer for old technology. [/quote] 100% agreement with your observation. There is no one alive more opposed to the EPA crap that is out there. My only statement is that you guys seem so one sided. I suspect that there are alternatives out there that you seem to ignore. I talked to a pretty close friend of mine - who works on the pit crew of a nationally known dragster racer. He is all about oils and what works. He knows all about ZDDP etc. etc. He mentioned two or three other oils that are at least equal to your precious Rotella. I am not opposed to Rotella, only observing that there could be others that meet the specs you so dearly love, but haven't shown (to me at least) the evidence of it superiority over all other oils. The one piece of evidenced was a pic of a ruined camshaft. But clearly that pic was of a camshaft that had been rusted (probably because the bike had been stored for a long time), so the wear was due to rusty, pitted cam lobes, and was NOT due to using something other than Rotella. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by verslagen1 on 03/03/17 at 15:13:12 203935343D3F3E243225333B352935500 wrote:
All I'm saying is prove it. Papa Bear has listed a site well known to us. Buster is doing a WIX analysis. Pied knows a guy. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/03/17 at 15:20:03 Versy can throw insults he's a moderator and the rest of us just get moderated,but sticking up for Versy, there were no insults given that was just emotion , trust me you will know when you have been insulted , the most heated discussions outside of tall table are here and about oil ! Oil wars make for great entertainment, so please carry on ! Some get so butt hurt they never recover/return, please don't be one . Opinion are like a$$ holes every body's got one. We will listen please don't get bent ! Just have fun ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 03/03/17 at 15:29:13 1A3D3C3C2431480 wrote:
And if it isn't yours it stinks. ;) Or like my friend says: "Everyone is entitled to my opinion" |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by verslagen1 on 03/03/17 at 18:44:07 7D646869606263796F786E666874680D0 wrote:
What insult? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/03/17 at 19:43:42 Gosh dang I love a good oil war ! Toga , Toga , Toga ! Do I know how to stir the pot or what ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/03/17 at 20:00:25 So cool , opinions from 14 members , everyone's welcome , feel free to chime in ! Agree to Disagree and then throw rocks ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 03/04/17 at 03:54:57 I do believe there may be better oils than Rotella T or T-6. They will be 2-3 times the cost of Rotella, they most likely will not be as easy to find in your local store (Walmart, Tractor Supply, Truck Stops, auto supply), and with the constantly changing formulas it is impossible for this forum to keep track of them. This forum recommends the Rotella oils because they work well in the Savage, they prevent premature cam wear, they don't make the clutch slip, and they can protect the engine for many miles, and they are very affordable. We have not found any comparable priced oil that works as well. Youzguys got 155,000 miles out of his engine before it needed a rebuild. The first 60,000 miles was on Mobil1, the last 95,000 miles was on Rotella T-6. The bottom end and the piston/cylinder was within spec and was put back into service with new rings. The valve guides were worn out........would they have lasted longer with a more expensive oil? Who knows. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Kris01 on 03/04/17 at 07:28:39 I'm getting the popcorn ready. This might prove to be fun! ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 07:44:23 496E6F6F77621B0 wrote:
Thanks for your kind response! I really wasn't, with my first remark, trying to upset anyone, and especially insult anyone! My personal belief is to try to treat all with respect and kindness (isn't that a new country-western song? - and I HATE country-western music!!!). I know from nearly everywhere I have been, that these sorts of questions almost always bring out the war paint. Everyone has a favorite! I do have some favorites that have given me great service, and believe me, I have no ax to grind in any of this. I do like to hear experienced opinions. As a Presupposionalist, I almost always, however, tend to challenge one's pre-conceived notions! My current input was only to the effect that as modern research as been, I would challenge anyone that there MIGHT be, or there COULD be some new oils that may even be better than their favorites. A while back I volunteered to help fund a new oil analysis to see if there were some new oils on the market that could suffice. That's all! Believe me, I am NOT trying to upset anyone's apple cart! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 07:45:58 546F6275646873756E666B74070 wrote:
I think this was a GREAT and well-thought-out response! Congrats, Mike |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/17 at 07:52:32 I just wanna know if T4is as good as the T3 was. If I need to put some red line in, I will. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 07:59:30 3F2026213C3B0A3A0A32202C67550 wrote:
I called Shell about a month ago, and talked to a tech rep, and she said yes to that question - at least that it was up to snuff on the ZDDP and is wet-clutch safe. She only said NOT to use the T5. T6 was also safe. So, according to her, we have a choice of T4 or T6, conventional oil or pure synthetic oil, NOT the semi-synthetic. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/04/17 at 08:19:28 Hello again [ch128517] Just got my Motul and analysis kit in hand. Hope to have the test results back in a few weeks. Seems like a good oil, if you believe what I read on the label, but I won't use it continually unless it looks good on a VOA and more importantly...on a few back-to-back UOA tests. Just a reminder: Motul 3000 4T 10w40 - Jaso MA2 Mineral oil that promises a "superior everything" additive package. Only thing that worries me on the label is the statement about it being recommended as an excellent "break-in" oil. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/17 at 08:25:22 Thank You Piedmontbuckeye . |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 08:31:47 What is "up to snuff" ? What is the ZDDP ppm in T4 & T6 ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 08:33:47 I just like the name ! ROTELLA Sounds like its good ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 08:47:29 Popcorn & Popsicles (Grape) I'm ready , let's throw rocks ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 03/04/17 at 10:07:34 436465657D68110 wrote:
You don't eat those together....do you? :o |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 10:19:29 Popcorn first ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by hotrod on 03/04/17 at 10:25:40 A semi-synthetic oil is a blend of conventional oil and synthetic oil. What is the ratio ? 50:50 ? 100:1 ? Different for different brands ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by SALB on 03/04/17 at 10:51:50 Here is a VOA from Bob is the Oil Guy for the "New Bottle" T6. Still haven't seen one for the T4. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4238740/New_bottle_shell_rotella_t6_5w#Post4238740 |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Kris01 on 03/04/17 at 11:00:23 09273E3F2409242F22252E4B0 wrote:
Break-in oil is high in ZDDP. Not to worry. Do you know how much in the Motul? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 12:59:27 I believe they have to call it a break in oil in order to get keep the ZDDP levels high. So I don't think there is any issues running break in oil all the time. The one oil I had interest in was from Joe Gibbs Racing , Driven MX wet clutch racing oil ! Until I saw the price 20 USD a Qt + shipping !!!! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 13:04:13 Who shall cast the first stone ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by SALB on 03/04/17 at 13:16:59 6C4B4A4A52473E0 wrote:
I'd have to see the ZDDP levels in break in oil, but I suspect they are super high in ZDDP to facilitate the rapid wear/breaking in of parts. Maybe dilute it a little with normal oil? ::) Let the mudslinging begin! :-* ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/04/17 at 13:18:26 7D445F450607360 wrote:
Break-in oil is high in ZDDP. Not to worry. Do you know how much in the Motul?[/quote] Okay, but I've seen some "boutique" break-in oils with ZDDP in the 2,500-3,000ppm range - Hopefully the Motul will be closer to 1,200-1,300ppm. Don't Have a clue of what the analysis will look like, but hope it will be worthy of the $7.95/Qt price tag. If not, I'll probably just use Rotella later on. Especially if the used oil analysis isn't impressive enough. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by hotrod on 03/04/17 at 13:26:54 My oil is better than your oil. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by hotrod on 03/04/17 at 13:39:13 Who called me a molybdenum ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by SALB on 03/04/17 at 14:14:53 674E42424A5D1E2F0 wrote:
You, sir, are a cad-mium!!!! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 14:18:14 In Bob the oil guys report. It shows zinc and phosphorus. What determines ZDDP ppm rating ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/04/17 at 14:59:46 76515050485D240 wrote:
Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) Not on-topic, but just in case someone needed to know... Dichlorodifluoromethane (R-12) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by verslagen1 on 03/04/17 at 15:20:14 Dichlorodifluoromethane? Slowly I turn... step by step... http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/smiley/angry021.gif |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 15:28:24 597E7F7F67720B0 wrote:
To be honest, I don't remember her exact wording. I think she said the ZDDP was the same as the previous Rotella, but not sure. Try giving them a call. She was very pleasant to talk to. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 16:15:04 Yes but on Bobs report it doesn't show ZDDP it only shows zinc & phosphorus in seperate columns. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 03/04/17 at 16:19:01 426564647C69100 wrote:
When they test it.....I believe the test results can't leave the Zinc and Phosphorus combined as ZDDP......the testing process separates it into the 2 separate ingredients (Zinc and Phosphorus). |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 16:26:42 Then how do they calculate those 2 into ZDDP and then into ppm s |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by SALB on 03/04/17 at 16:42:55 Zinc, phosphorus, ZDDP, and more explained. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/ |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 17:03:28 That was very informative and totally useless I must be wording my question wrong or not So how does Bob tell how much ZDDP is in a oil ,when his report only shows zinc and phosphorus as separate contents ???? Does anyone understand this question ? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Oldfeller on 03/04/17 at 19:13:26 Part of what they do in oil testing is to test the oil's viscosity at several different temperatures, then as the last step a sample of the oil goes into a mass spectrometer for a molecular element analysis. Yes, it is sold as a ZDDP additive, which is a complex compound, but it is reported on the report sheets as a % of the basic elements that compose the oil additive ZDDP. And yes, years ago there was an off brand of cheap oil that just put some phosphorus and zinc powders into their oil as their "additive package" and then when it came up with a really whacky low VOA they told the customer "to shake the oil up some" and retest it. ::) Needless to say Petroleum Institute of America soon hooted that supplier out of existence after their subsequent series of tests on that supplier's "oil" which turned out to be filtered recycled oil with "additives replenished". ;) However, I am still amazed no one has posted a VOA of Rotella T-4 after 2 months of sales ..... |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by badwolf on 03/04/17 at 19:52:35 I can't believe how much time and effort is WASTED arguing about oil! No one is riding while they are warring about oil. If someone spends all their time online talking about riding, their NOT riding. Ours is NOT a high performance engine. It's oil needs are modest. We know what works. If someone is spending all their time online and only riding 1 or 2k a year they could probably run cooking oil and do just fine! GET OVER IT!! How many members are REALLY going to run this bike 100k? Have you done that with another bike? Do you get a new phone every 2 years? Most bikes here will die from accidents, neglect, or abuse. No magic oil will keep you engine "new" under abuse it was never meant for. All newer oils are plenty slippery, just stay away from additives that will screw-up your clutch or cam. Yes I know I am going to get tarred & feathered for this, but is almost as bad as arguing about mixing oddball stuff for fork oil. USE WHAT WORKS!! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 19:53:11 We are getting close here Oldfeller. So Bob would have to know the composition of a suppliers ZDDP package before testing to get a accurate ppm reading. Or Bob can get an accurate ZDDP ppm reading because elements in the ZDDP package do not exist in any of the other elements or additives that make up the oil. Or Bob knows composition of ZDDP because all ZDDP is the same Just messin with you on that last one , but I guess it could be true ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/04/17 at 20:18:32 Party Pooper , No one has forced you to read any of this! But you found us here on page 5 or is it 6 ! ;D FYI Me and the tracker were out for a 2 hour ride , out in the country. What a blast,amazing how renewed you feel after a good ride,seems to make me whole again , the only time I can say I am 100% focused on what I am doing ! Feeling every little bump in the road , every little flex or wiggle in the bike , every little tire slip or slide , what fricken blast ! Before I even got out of town local PD rolled up on both sides of me sitting at a stop light on their Harley's to check out my bike,got two thumbs up ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by zipidachimp on 03/05/17 at 01:36:14 verslagen: Dichlorodifluoromethane? Slowly I turn... step by step.. Versy, did you just say 'Niagara' ? 8-) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/05/17 at 02:15:45 Not sure how this determines what oil I should be using 2 years from now, but my new bike is only about 3 months old and I'm closing in on the 2,000 mile marker pretty fast. And even tho I'm in my early 50's, I've only owned 3 cellphones - current phone is my first iPhone. Hope that helps. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 03/05/17 at 04:40:01 393B2836282A323B33285A0 wrote:
My oil war time is generally in the morning when I fist get up, or at night just before bed. It is better than watching the crap on TV. In KY....it is not yet riding weather. We had snow yesterday morning, and we never got out of the 40's yesterday. I have about a month of "oil war" time left.....then I can do some riding. When time allows I have been doing upgrades and maintenance on the bikes. Once the grass starts growing...it is hard to find time to do that. I have been using oil that works....just trying to help spread the word! ;) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/05/17 at 09:51:01 Badwolf, Sometimes it's been close to 2 months between rides due to work and/or this years bad weather and work is 6 to 7 days a week. So when I get to ride and I love to ride , I get so dam excited I'm in a heightened sense awarement I feel everything the frame,forks,brakes,tires,jetting,the difference in the weather that affecting the jetting. I hear everything the bike is saying. So yes I get excited and tend to share that here cause quite frankly it gets dull here at times. Just wait till I finish this bike and begin straying further out into the hills , ride stories will get better. Oil wars are good reading and educational for those who have not been involved in one ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 11:40:19 When the manufacturer changes the formulation and nomenclature and the oil you've Been using for ten years is no longer available, Determining Which Oil Works is simply asking a question about oil. You sure poured out a load of completely wasted energy, scolding people who are just talking about oils. The Mention of and discussion of oil isn't a war, until someone starts demanding that the oil They use is the only oil To use. Maybe a stool softener would help. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/05/17 at 14:23:35 JOG , Are you addressing me? I haven't been fowl with anyone , if anything I have kept it quite civil with a tad bit of nice in there ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 14:41:54 637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:
Agree! I dislike the when people "square off" against each other just for expressing an opinion. And being inquisitive at any time is healthy as long as one is genuinely inquiring. No need to get into "fight" mode or call such inquiries as "Wars." |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/05/17 at 15:00:17 Oil Wars was a term being used here apparently long before I got here ! Think it's a tradition here ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 15:21:08 7B5C5D5D4550290 wrote:
You haven't been either a bird brain or rude. Badwolf was snarling and spitting. I know I can get a bit foul tempered when my "Machine" isn't Oilin Right, I eat a few handfuls of raw almonds and cashews a day, usually, and things generally work out, butt, it's not a bad idea to keep something around, just in case. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/05/17 at 16:22:24 JOG , Try some prunes ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 16:37:22 Neaux! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Ruttly on 03/05/17 at 20:42:33 BEER works best for me ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by IslandRoad on 03/05/17 at 23:22:38 “Here’s to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.” Homer Simpson |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/06/17 at 06:21:29 I thought that award went to government. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/09/17 at 14:00:12 0B141215080F3E0E3E06141853610 wrote:
Amen to that! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/24/17 at 08:13:26 Results of the VOA from WIX. Looks like I won't need to add any Redline zinc booster... :o |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by batman on 03/25/17 at 06:29:53 It is interesting to note,that the viscosity at 100degrees C (212 F ) is 13.8 .At normal operating temp of 250/270 F the oil thins to 10 ,hence the 10 in 10W-40. the viscosity at40degreesC (104 F) is 109.5,I'm think on a 75 degree morning the viscosity of the oil to be about 300+ ,(molasses),and until the oil warns doesn't lubricate the motor,and is why 90% of wear happens at startup. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by TallElf on 03/25/17 at 06:50:04 I can attest. Po used castrol which i have sworn by in my cars since i started driving. Clutch started slipping about 1000 miles in. Switched to Rotel t and it seems to have corrected through the next change. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Buster on 03/25/17 at 20:00:02 4241544D414E1418200 wrote:
And the Bob oil guy/Blackstone link on page 5 of this thread, to a VOA of Shell T6 5w-40 was 13.6 at 212 F. And those readings showed to be right in the middle of what is considered to be acceptable test results. So. Those results being nearly identical for the two oils - Zinc levels, not nearly as close to being the same. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 04/27/17 at 05:38:01 Here are 4 brand new HDEO diesel oil VOAs for your viewing pleasure .... 8-) https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4388418/gonew/1/Four_API_CK-4_Diesel_Engine_Oi#UNREAD |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by George Palickar on 04/27/17 at 18:33:38 Just my 2cents. I went r mobil1 racing 4t. Optimized for wet clutch, air cooled motors, full synthetic, 1200 ppm zinc 800 ppm phos. 10 bucks a quart. Cats po-jammas |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by batman on 04/28/17 at 15:06:56 Everyone's taste in oil is different, I like mine with a raw egg in it and a shot on the side. ::) SO BE IT! The title of this post is;I don't think we can talk about oil ,and after 7 pages I have to believe we can! but to what end?Page 8? The rubber side down is for helping people with their problems, (I thought),oil is not a problem ,it is an opinion ! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/28/17 at 16:10:27 Yes, it is. And if your opinion is different from mine, THEEEres the problem. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 04/28/17 at 18:25:54 Opinions are like rectums .. everybody has one and if it's not yours it stinks. :D Oil is a scientific blend and if you know your requirements the right oil is a treasure. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by batman on 04/30/17 at 06:49:09 JOG ,kind of a "catch 22" I knew it !!! page 8!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 05/20/17 at 16:08:05 There is a thread over at BITOG and one of the recent posters on it is a Shell Rotella company rep. You can read the posts here https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359102/4 Chris has his homepage listed as http://rotella.shell.com/ I'll PM him and ask about using the new Rotella in our S40s re: enough zinc and phosphorous . ;) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/17 at 16:17:17 2526332A2629737F470 wrote:
Even after eight pages I'm not exhausted or frustrated by it. Not like that Other thread |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/17/17 at 16:40:17 FYI http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 07/18/17 at 03:32:31 Papa Bear: Thanks....that is a great link! |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/17 at 08:13:11 If it's saying what I think it's saying, I don't need to worry about Red Line. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/18/17 at 08:59:49 I think that's what it's saying ..... ;) |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/17 at 09:12:52 I'd sure hate to both be wrong.. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/18/17 at 12:42:41 That's exactly what I say to my wife ..... I say "I'd like to agree with you, honey, but then we'd both be wrong" :P |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Dave on 07/18/17 at 13:23:59 PapaBear: Can you find and provide a similar link for the T-6? If so.....I can sticky them both into the Tech Section, and that will create "Peace in the Valley" until the next EPA mandate or reformulation occurs. |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/18/17 at 14:26:47 I haven't found T6 yet but here is 4 more 15W-40 oils Click on their pictures for the report https://pqiablog.com/2017/04/24/results-in-on-four-api-ck-4-diesel-engine-oils/ |
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Title: Re: Anyone seen rocker/cam damage on a 2005 or lat Post by norm92de on 07/18/17 at 14:12:39 Does anyone know how much ZDDP is in T6 and has it changed with the latest formulation? |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/18/17 at 14:30:56 Here is a recent VOA (virgin oil analysis) on T6 from May 2017 https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4408001/VOA_Shell_Rotella_T6_May_2017#Post4408001 Lots of good info in this post on BITOG |
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Title: Re: Not sure if we can talk about oil Post by Papa Bear on 07/20/17 at 13:13:42 Read ChrisGuerrero's post today - 1200ppm zinc in T4 & T6 https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4461236/2/ZDDP_level_of_Rotella_CK4? |
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