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Message started by njohnso8 on 11/30/16 at 19:28:54

Title: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 11/30/16 at 19:28:54

Hey all,
Im looking for some advice on splitting the crankcase. I followed the Clymers manual to the point where it says lift the right side of the case off the left.. Not so simple I'm finding out.
I've tapped it with the dead blow hammer all around which has done a pretty good job everywhere else, but its just not doing anything here. Clymers does say that if the case needs to be pried open, be careful not to damage it. I think this is my next step. Whats the best way to go about this?

Thanks!!

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/30/16 at 19:46:44

WHY are you doing that?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by verslagen1 on 11/30/16 at 19:49:40

find a steering wheel puller and use the 3 bolt holes around the crank.

or find a angle iron that can use 2 of the bolts around the cover holes... that's what I did.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Armen on 11/30/16 at 20:06:54

Did you warm up the area around the main bearing with a torch?
The main bearings are a press fit on both the crank and the cases.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 11/30/16 at 20:22:41

Gotcha so you put the angle iron on and essentially mimicked the wheel remover. Ill give that a shot.

Have not used a torch on it and I must say I'm a little hesitant to do that as Clymers mentions specifically to not use a torch directly on the bearing or case..

Doing this because my cam chain tensioner blew.. after going on this forum seems like thats pretty commonplace knowledge to replace that early, but sadly I only really started using this site after it happened. To be quite honest this is my first bike, never done much mechanic work, and to top it all off I'm in my 2nd year of med school. With tight funds I decided to not buy a new engine and try and fix it myself instead.. not sure yet if that was the smart decision but hey its been a interesting side project!

Anyways, on assessing the damage as I was pulling it apart, found a whole bunch of metal flakes inside the case and it sounds like something is knocking inside. Took it to a local shop and they said I'd really need to crack it open to clean it, they suspected a shot bearing might be the source of the knock.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by verslagen1 on 11/30/16 at 20:39:53

I don't think it's a press fit, just tight.
wasn't too hard to get off or back on.

once you get the rotor off, you should be able to inspect all the bearings.

only the left counter balancer is a bit hidden.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Ruttly on 11/30/16 at 20:46:44

I used a plastic deadblow hammer and just took my time,don't be in a hurry you'll just screw it up !

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Dave on 12/01/16 at 03:10:58

Like Verslagen, I adapted a puller and mounted it so that it pulled the right side case off the crankshaft. It is not a press fit and it doesn't need a torch....but it will help to get a steady pull at the crankshaft. You can leave all the gears and shafts in the left side case and not have to fuss with the transmission assembly.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/16 at 07:02:12

Some lose their engine, some save it,, bummer deal either way.
You're busting in to go fishing or replace stuff?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Dave on 12/01/16 at 07:22:00

Also be sure you have "all" the screws out - there are some on the clutch side that are located inside the case (where the oil splashes around. Also....you should support the engine on the left side case...you will need to block it up so the crankshaft can hang down and the case is supported.....then pull the right side of the engine case upward. If you have to pry....only do it at the engine mount bolt holes - don't pry at the mating surface for the two case halves as you could damage the sealing surface. When the case is laying on the left side, you can (should), install some kind of a puller on the crankshaft that will push against the end of the crankshaft and pull up on the engine case.

Jump to around 7 minutes in this video and you can see how a puller is used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N144n_CE3_E

Where do you live? Maybe somebody local has some experience and can help?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 12/01/16 at 14:31:43

Great video and tips, thanks Dave! I'll likely get a chance to try that this weekend.

I'm in New Orleans, so far haven't found anyone who works on suzuki's, but yes, would be very open to letting some more experienced hands take a look and show me some things.

And yea Justin fishing for whatever is making that knock, but I know I also have to do some major cleaning of everything inside. Tried using magnets to get the metal shavings out but found very quickly that was not going to cut it. I'm short of any better ideas to clean it other than open it up..

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/16 at 14:56:57

Engine on the bench, both sides off, spark plug out, diesel flush crankcase,
Good lighting, air hose with 1/8" brass tubing extension on the blower, about a foot long,
That's a project, remove the blower tip, get tubing to fit, flare it a bit, push in and JB weld , set up time, screw tip back on.

Wire with T shirt bits for mopping out bits..
I'd be trying to locate the problem before I split it.
Have you got the cylinder and piston off yet?
Can you feel a bump if you spin the crankshaft?
Have you got the cam chain out?
Did it get kinked?
Maybe messed up a guide?
Did the spring get in between gears?

All of the cleaning and inspection is gonna need done,, the more you can do before splitting it, the better off you'd be, I'd think.
I sure wouldn't be anxious to bust into it if it could possibly be avoided.

Getting the belt off can be a trick.. if you haven't already done that, it might be a good idea.

If the tensioner spring left a chunk in a gear, it would be noisy.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 12/01/16 at 15:23:07

That first pic is where I'm at, I've taken absolutely everything off already, cylinder, piston, cam chain, guides.
My guides looked pretty beat up and the cam chain sprocket was shattered but still in place. I don't feel any bumps when I spin the crankshaft, it does not wiggle vertically or laterally. It just has a knock when I spin it that honestly I might have left alone, but took in to a shop to be safe and thats where I was told it may be the bearing. I just cant localize the sound enough to know what it is, and I'm suffering mostly from not knowing what normal sounds like.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by verslagen1 on 12/01/16 at 15:24:52

It maybe a chip of aluminum.
Take an air hose and blow out all the bearings.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 12/01/16 at 15:44:32

Closest I have is a keyboard duster ha! Which didn't help.
I'll have to take it somewhere to have access to an air hose.
The sound is subtle but it is a dull, fairly low pitched noise coming from the case at the bottom and top of the crank rotation. Since its so tied to a specific part of the rotation I'm just skeptical its a piece of metal randomly rolling around in there.

Like I said though I don't know normal but my understanding is there really shouldn't be any noise, other than the smooth rolling noise of the bearings at any point in the rotation correct?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 12/01/16 at 16:01:33

It looks like it didn't actually load the pic of the R case on my first post. Those scratches from the chain don't go all the way through, no cracks, but thats part of the source of all these metal shavings.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Mr.T on 12/01/16 at 18:14:27

how many miles were on the engine when the problem started?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/16 at 19:15:43

Since you've isolated it to whats left in the case and the clutch is out of the picture, then what's left?
The counterbalance and its drive, the crank and rod bearings.

Can you feel or hear it in the rod?
Can you get small tubing in an ear and close to a crank bearing?
I'm Guessing it's not in a transmission gear, since the clutch is out.. maybe someone can agree or disagre?

Did the tensioner spring get mangled?

There are magnets inside the other side engine case .

The more places you can prove it isn't before you pop it apart,,,

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/16 at 19:47:44

If it's Just TDC and BDC and it doesn't change, I'd wanna look at the counter balance drive gears and chain.
Bearings would thump a dozen times if there was a .piece of crud in one, I'd think.
If it's a piece of crap in a gear you should be able to feel something,
I've never had the top end off,so IDK what you can see down in there.

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by norm92de on 12/02/16 at 08:20:45

Jus a thought.

Could what you are feeling/hearing be the counterweight going over centre at TDC and BDC?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by njohnso8 on 01/27/17 at 21:06:18

Just wanted to follow up on this, I built my own version of a steering wheel puller and followed that video Dave posted and it came apart with no problems. Just finished cleaning the inside, replaced the oil pump strainer, and had the bearings and crankshaft professionally inspected. Everything checks out so gonna seal this thing back up. Likely the knock is what norm was saying. Its just hard to know if somethings wrong if you don't know what it should sound like.

Thanks for the help!!

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by kamelryttarn on 01/13/20 at 05:19:47

I also have some kind of pinging/knocking in my engine and according to my Clymer manual one possible cause may be a worn main bearing. I'm guessing I need to split the crankcase IF that is indeed my problem. Is splitting the case and replacing the bearing something a moderately experienced tinkerer can do?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by batman on 01/13/20 at 06:53:17

It might be a good idea to remove the starter motor so the O-ring on the left end doesn't get damaged .

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/13/20 at 07:36:53

5F4D5D0F0E5E485D5C3A0 wrote:

Splitting the case is a gigantic pain in the butt. Can you describe how and when the knocking happens? Is it always there, warm or cold? Is it only happening when throttle is added. Does it only happen under load or will it happen just sitting still in neutral? Does it happen with the clutch engaged and/or disengaged?

Title: Re: Splitting the Crankcase
Post by kamelryttarn on 01/14/20 at 01:53:11

I have to go from memory here, but it was on and off when driving, regardless if I was accelerating, coasting or decelerating. It was not so much as a sound as a "metal to metal" knocking that could be easily felt in the foot pegs. It felt like it came from the left side of the engine.

I have drained the oil to check the cam chain and flywheel nut and am currently trying to lift the bike to get easier access to the engine itself. I can hopefully get the covers of this weekend and take some pics.

If I need/decide to split the crankcase, is it the threads marked with the red pen I need to use together with the splitting tool?