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Message started by Gary_in_NJ on 10/27/16 at 19:20:52

Title: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/27/16 at 19:20:52

I've never liked the shocks that came with the RYCA kit. They are over sprung, under dampened and only provide 2 inches of travel. I've been looking at various solutions and have considered them all; everything from the $1,000 range RaceTech, Ohlins and Fox Podium Shocks to low buck Chinese knock-offs of the aforementioned shocks for less than $100. I couldn't bring myself to try anything in the upper end and figured why bother at the low end.

I was doing some research one day and came across a forum where CB350 cafe riders were discussing various shock options. The discussion turned to made in china RFY and TEC shocks where people (who never tried them) said they were junk and others who have used them said that they actually aren't bad. Further research brought me to a Triumph forum where there was the same exact discussion. The difference with this discussion was someone with significant experience with high-end shocks actually took apart the RFY shocks and compared them to Ohlins. As suspected the RFY shocks are copies of the Ohlins, and it turned out good copies too. The poster noted that a good setup could render serviceable shocks. Doing some research on the poster I came across his website, CL Mototech. There the poster, Chris, had details on RFY and TEC shocks. His reviews are honest and complete; if something is crap he points it out and if something is well built he also shows why. Check out his website at https://chrislivengood.net/wp/clmototech/

You will see that Chris sells custom built shocks from RFY shells. I provided Chris with the particulars (weight of the bike with and without me at the front and rear wheels) and some other information on the bike and Chris built me custom shocks for my bike for around $200.

The shocks measure 340mm eye to eye (about 13-3/8") and have 2-3/4" of travel; 3/4" longer then the shocks supplied by RYCA. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a significant difference. The springs installed are dual-rate 80-100 lb-in and seem well matched to the bike. These are the lightest springs Chris carries for the RFY shocks and are well suited to a 300 pound bike with a 175 pound rider. I believe that Chris reworks the shim stack in the damping circuit for the weight of the rider and bike.

I've only ridden these briefly, but they make a huge difference. The shocks, together with my custom forks, provide a balanced and comfortable ride. I have yet to set the static and race sag for the shocks and then reset my figures for the forks to compensate for the reduced rake and trail from the longer shocks. And I probably won't get to it in the coming weeks because my bike is getting torn apart to finally get paint.

Here are some photos.

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/GaryCorde/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2550_zpsv4gkmm9h.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/GaryCorde/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2549_zpsfcrpmbjz.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/GaryCorde/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2551_zpsg2srsiih.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/GaryCorde/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2552_zpsynpskrnv.jpg

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by xaman on 10/27/16 at 22:44:02

Thanks for the review. I wasn't aware of this company, but that's a bargain price for decent shocks. If you get any more feedback or ride time, please let us know how you get along with them.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Ruttly on 10/28/16 at 05:55:23

They look good , time will tell if they a good deal !
I just have to say it , can't help myself, you all know what I'm goin say !
You get what you pay for !!!
I hate being so negative/truthful ;D

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 10/28/16 at 06:02:19

My research backs up what Gary found. Good shocks if you are willing to service them (they can be serviced!). It's a good idea to change the oil right away. I read stories about low oil and/or possible manufacturing debris contamination being the only real issues.

You can get these really cheap on eBay if you know what you are looking for.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Violent_Rage on 10/28/16 at 06:18:14

Very nice stuff!!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by BSTON on 10/28/16 at 06:55:29

The increased travel is accomplished through a longer shock so the rear of the bike is raised even more? I'm curious if there's a point where the geometry gets screwed up with the swingarm needing to be at such an angle.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 08:09:39

7B6A6D7677390 wrote:
The increased travel is accomplished through a longer shock so the rear of the bike is raised even more? I'm curious if there's a point where the geometry gets screwed up with the swingarm needing to be at such an angle.

I think I read somewhere that the RYCA conversion with the 18" front wheel results in a rake of 28 degrees. Taking some quick measurements I believe that my bike was in the 26-27 degree range. Raising the rear an additional 3/8" probably puts me into the solid 26 degree range. As a point of reference, my SV650S has a rake/trail of 25 degrees and 100mm (3.9") - so I think I'm still in a good place.

The softer spring rate and proper damping adds compliance to the suspension and should make the bike more stable then what I had; great forks and nearly a hard tail. There's no doubt in my mind that I have the best riding, most plush suspension of any RYCA conversion.

Something to consider; my bike is chain driven. Raising the rear an additional 3/8" has the chain making contact with the swingarm - unloaded. Fortunately I don't run the bike unloaded. With the 18/52 sprockets I'm right on the edge of needing to go 18/5X to ensure clearance. Not a big deal for me, but it may be a deal breaker for a belt driven bike. I don't know what the limits are for that system.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 10/28/16 at 08:25:31

You may not ride your bike unloaded, but it will unload while riding it. You might want to look into adapting a "chain slider" to your swing arm.

Something like this might work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pit-Dirt-Bike-Chain-Slider-Guard-Rear-Swingarm-Guide-Fit-Chinese-XR50-CRF50-/231709857094

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/23382238904.JPG

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 10/28/16 at 08:29:38

Or this guy might work nicely on our swing arm.

http://tboltusa.com/store/800x600xproduct_thumb.php,qsrc=images,_RubberChainSlider_1.jpg,ah=600,aw=800,azc=1.pagespeed.ic.mQaKkmygu0.jpg

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 08:42:50

Since I'm taking the bike apart for the winter I was going to review that. It's not much of a concern as it barely makes contact. Tightening the chain slack back to 25mm would probably do the trick as would adding a few teeth to the rear sprocket. I'm going to install an o-ring chain this winter, so I'll see how the clearance looks as it all comes back together.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/16 at 08:53:50

Not that we can readily change the pivot point of the swing arm, but the stock config is designed to put the center of the drive pulley in line with the rear axle and pivot point of the swing arm.

So could you raise the back end of the engine in the frame?
Or would lower the swing arm pivot?

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 09:49:22

2A392E2F303D3B39326D5C0 wrote:
So could you raise the back end of the engine in the frame?
Or would lower the swing arm pivot?

It wouldn't be too hard to rotate the engine forward. It's just a little welding at the rear mount and creating a new bracket at the head.

But in the end it's not necessary. It's not that big of a change and it can be managed through simpler adjustments.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 10/28/16 at 17:38:22

Thanks for the info!
I bought the longest RYCA shocks just to have something. Didn't delude myself that pair of $200 shocks would be amazing.
I'll use them for a while and see.
Nice to know there are other options. The Wilburs on my R65 were upwards of $800. Not really wanting to throw that much $ at the ass end of the Savage.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 10/29/16 at 13:52:51

You said you updated your suspension thread Do you mean the forks piece in the tech section?
thanks

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/29/16 at 18:15:30

A couple updates...

I put about 60 miles on my bike today. I wasn't intending to, but the bike rides so good I just couldn't get off the thing. It really rides that well. I purposely rode over some of the worst roads I could find. The shocks have had a transformative effect on the bike and my enjoyment of it. There are a few known bad spots where I would have to stand on the pegs to get my butt off the seat because it was so jarring to the bike and me. Today I didn't even have to slow down for them. I love these shocks.

340mm is too long. First the chain makes contact with the front of the swing arm when braking or going over very bumpy surfaces. Secondly, the rake has been reduced to a point where the front end feels too light. But here's the good news; Chris included a second set of lower adjusters in the box that allow me to adjust the range between 320-340mm. 13 inches is 330mm, so I'm good to go. I dont know how I missed these, but as I was cleaning up my work bench they fell out of the box.

I didn't take the time to dial in the sag yet and the shocks could use a little preload. 2-3/4 of travel worked well as I never bottomed the shocks. The 80-100 in-lb springs work well on this bike. The more compliant shocks make the modified forks feel even better. There's a really nice balance to it all.

If you are thinking of building a RYCA kit, ask them to not include the shocks and buy these instead. If you already have a cafe racer and are unhappy with the ride, these are the $200 magic carpet ride.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/30/16 at 14:09:07

I adjusted the shocks today to 330mm and went out for a 50 mile ride.

Perfection
Nirvana
Bliss
Comfortable
Happy

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/06/16 at 09:55:26

Gary,
Looking at their ordering page.
Did you do the spherical bearing upgrade?
The top out spring upgrade?
thanks,
-Armen

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/06/16 at 18:51:39

I didn't get the spherical bearing upgrade, but I did get the optional top out spring for the extra stroke/travel.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/06/16 at 19:44:29

Thanks. I was wondering how important the bearing upgrade would be.
I'm also leaning toward slightly shorter than the 13" RYCA shocks. The crazy amount of belt slack at full shock extension bothers me.
The shortest shock CL offers is 12.6", but with the change to the top out spring, he says the shock could be 10mm (3/8") longer. Which puts it back at the length of the RYCA shock.
Oh boy...

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/07/16 at 05:09:57

The top out spring only changes the length of the stroke, not the length at full extension. When you get the shock you will be provided a threaded lower eyelet that allows for adjustment between 320-340mm (12-19/32 to 13-3/8"). This sets the full extend length. With the top out spring you'll get to enjoy the full 2-3/4" of travel.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 11/07/16 at 05:17:41

Do the reservoir canisters have to be mounted toward the top rear of the shock? My license plate mount is directly behind the shock, and I don't have room for the anything behind the shock - but I could mount them with the reservoir on top and facing forward.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/07/16 at 05:33:57

Gary,
From the CL site:
Top Out Spring Replacement

Top out spring replacement removes the overly stiff and excessively tall factory spring and put a compact high load spring in its place. This accommodates greater travel in the sag component of your suspension travel. The replacement spring decreases the droop limit, meaning the shock has a longer travel than stock. Ultimately, this allows the setup of the shock to be maximized in both the compression and sag characteristics. Preload correction is applied in conjunction with the top out spring replacement and serves to reduce factory set preload as much as possible. This is ideal for lighter bikes and riders who may struggle to achieve popper sag. Note: this service may add up to 10mm to the total length of the shock. Note: this service may add up to 10mm to the total length of the shock.

He says it twice, so I thought he meant it ;)

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/07/16 at 06:06:24

0D3E2129224C0 wrote:
Gary,
From the CL site:
Top Out Spring Replacement

Note: this service may add up to 10mm to the total length of the shock.

He says it twice, so I thought he meant it ;)

Yes, but YOU still control the final length. So a shock that started life as 320 to 330mm will now operate over a range of 330 to 340mm, but you, the operator/installer, still set the fixed length.

These shocks come is various lengths, so ask Chris if he can build up a pair from a baseline 300 or 310mm unit.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/07/16 at 06:10:43

Shortest shock he lists is 320mm

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/07/16 at 06:18:36

546F6275646873756E666B74070 wrote:
Do the reservoir canisters have to be mounted toward the top rear of the shock? My license plate mount is directly behind the shock, and I don't have room for the anything behind the shock - but I could mount them with the reservoir on top and facing forward.

One of the advantages of a reservoir shock is that it can be installed in any orientation. Think about a remote reservoir shock - the remote typically is installed wherever it will fit, without regard to orientation. On its website Racetech even has a photo of dual reservoir shocks in an USD position.

But to be safe, I'd talk to Chris about your mounting restrictions.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 11/07/16 at 06:23:22

053629212A440 wrote:

Shortest shock he lists is 320mm

I noticed that also, but RFY makes shorter shocks. I would think he could get them if needed. I might look into for my bike when I get a little further along. I can get the units for less, but having the ability to choose springs and the unit properly serviced is worth the extra money IMO.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/07/16 at 06:38:02

Armen, let me pull one of my shocks off and measure the minimum length for you.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/07/16 at 15:23:55

Thanks!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/07/16 at 17:47:48

Armen,

At its shortest the shock measures 12-5/8", or 320mm. I also measured the available stroke at 2-3/4".

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 11/07/16 at 19:07:44

Thanks!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 11/08/16 at 05:37:22

I contacted Chris about the RFY shock without the reservoir, and he can make one up for me. I might give it a try.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/08/16 at 06:00:22

Dave, I think the major difference will be the amount of available travel. They should ride very similar.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/09/16 at 13:39:57

5D666B7C6D617A7C676F627D0E0 wrote:
I contacted Chris about the RFY shock without the reservoir, and he can make one up for me. I might give it a try.

Reading Chris' review of the Model 0 teardown, maybe a Model 1 in an USD or forward facing configuration is a better choice.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 11/09/16 at 14:49:25

The only bad part I saw was the slop in the bushing, and I could easily fix that by installing a brass wear surface in there. The other things he said made the shock seem like it was well made.

I really don't want the reservoir look.....often folks think my bike is a lot older than it is, and the reservoir shocks just wouldn't keep the charade believable.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 11/17/16 at 11:10:41

Seems like the shorter than 320mm shocks are for scooters and mopeds. I've reached out to Chris about something shorter. I may just bite the bullet and work my bike around the 320mm shocks.

BTW, what is our bushing size?

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 11/17/16 at 13:51:15

5750515755574C57380 wrote:

BTW, what is our bushing size?

I am pretty sure it is 14mm.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/17/16 at 18:16:24

14mm is correct. Make sure Chris knows that the shocks are going on a Savage because he has special thin walled bushings specifically for the Savage.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/01/16 at 16:20:02

I ordered a 320mm set off eBay. I'm not sure I'll be able to use them, so I didn't want to drop $200 on a pre-serviced set from Chris. If they work out on my build, I'll ship them to him this winter. If not, look for them in the classifieds. :)

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/01/16 at 18:39:38

Sounds like a good plan. If I remember correctly, you wanted shocks in the 12.6" range - which these are..

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/01/16 at 19:40:14

Actually I was hoping to stay with something closer to 11" but I might be able to bump the rear end of the bike up a bit.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 12/02/16 at 02:43:23

I ordered a pair of non-reservoir RFY shocks from a Chinese Vender on eBay.....and they got posted with UPS on November 22nd. They were supposed to be delivered between November 23rd and 28th according to eBay. The tracking number they provided would not produce any results when I checked.....and eBay showed them to be stalled at the senders end and not in transit yet.

I contacted the seller, and they said the shocks were stalled in Customs (I suppose they do look a bit like rockets, grenades or large bullets!). The seller also said that this is Chinese New Year. They felt the shocks would clear customs in a few days, and arrive 2-3 days later.

It is no big deal - but is representative of problems that can occur when you have to deal internationally to get these shocks. Chris evidently can't find a place where he can become a dealer and get these shocks (or parts) directly from the maker.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/08/16 at 05:05:37

My 320mm set came in and I don't think they will work with my build as it sits. I would have to lower the rear end Ryca style and raise the front of the tank (the rear hits the frame) to get the line back. The only real drawback for me would be a little less space for my battery under the seat. I'll probably just use the stock shocks.

It was about 35 degrees out and my bike isn't street legal at the moment, so I only took it up the street. I didn't set the sag, but the shocks feel nice and seemed to have good control. A big upgrade over stock I'm sure. I did NOT adjust the belt so it starts loose but is fine once I'm on the bike. Given that the swingarm has to travel along the same arc as it would with the shorter stock shocks, I think I would run it like this. It's no different than your typical off road set up in my mind where you set the chain loose enough that it won't snap.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 12/08/16 at 05:16:27

You might be able to trim some of the shock height away by working on the lower mount.....or do they make this shock in a length that is a bit shorter?

My shocks still haven't left China from what I can tell by the UPS tracking. The seller stated that some additional paperwork was required, and they also stated that Chinese New Year might be slowing the process down a bit as well).

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/08/16 at 05:22:47

If I keep them, I'll just adjust the subframe and tank. It wouldn't too hard, but I'll probably just use the stock shocks. My bike is just a commuter and it handled well enough for my needs with the stock shocks and lowered front end.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 12/08/16 at 06:05:36

ohiomoto

One of the problems with the stock shock, is that it only provides about 1.5" of travel. With the original 140/80-15 rear tire - or the replacement 130/90-15 or 140/90-15 tires, there is a lot of tire sidewall to help soak up the bumps. When you switch to an 18" rim and a tire that is 110-130 wide and a 70 or 80 aspect ratio you have a lot less rubber - you really need some additional shock travel.

I wonder if the 800 Intruder shocks would be a good affordable replacement for your bike? The stock shocks are 10.5", the Intruder shocks are 12.5"....and the 340mm shocks are 13.4".

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by xaman on 12/08/16 at 06:57:28

Are these shocks preload adjustable with a stepped collar, or a threaded "infinitely" adjustable set up? How easy is it to adjust for more or less preload (when you go from carrying a passenger to solo)?

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 12/08/16 at 07:09:21

5148444847290 wrote:

I haven't had any in my hands yet - but it appears the threaded collar allows for infinite adjustment, and there is a lock nut. The ebay listings show 2 wrenches are included with the shocks.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/08/16 at 07:42:14

Yes, they are preload adjustable with the collars and they send 2 spanners with the shocks.

Dave, the 320mm is about 12.6" so the 12.5" intruder shocks don't do much for me. I either keep the stock shocks and their limited travel (which I spent plenty of time one this summer) or have to reconfigure my build a bit to get the look I want with the RFYs.

I'm leaning toward form over function right now. Ha, ha. But that's not really the point of posting in this thread. That discussion might be more appropriate in my build thread. I mostly wanted to share my impression about the potential with the belt drive.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/09/16 at 06:00:58

I agree, the 320mm shocks look out of place. RFY also make shocks in lengths of 280 and 300mm. I dont know the stroke length of these. You could contact Chris and see if he is able to get these lengths.

With that said, I probably wouldn't upgrade your shocks. Since you have lowered your forks by using spacers your forks will be quite stiff, providing little in the way of travel and virtually no damping. To keep the suspension in balance I would keep the rear as stiff as the front.

It won't be fun to ride over rough pavement, but it will look good doing it.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 12/09/16 at 07:10:16

3D373339323B3F36686E6A5A0 wrote:

I agree, the 320mm shocks look out of place...With that said, I probably wouldn't upgrade your shocks...It won't be fun to ride, but it will look good.

---------------

That's right! Ha, ha....

The ride with the stock shocks isn't that bad for my purpose and it is pretty well balanced with the lowed forks. Really not much different than my old Triumph TR6.

As for the shorter RFY shocks, they appear to be sprung for scooters. Chris was looking into them a bit and he also felt that we might not be able to get the correct springs.

I'll pass the RFY's on to someone who could use them. They are listed in the classifieds.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/09/16 at 07:44:27

6B61656F646D69603E383C0C0 wrote:
It won't be fun to ride, but it will look good.

I don't like what I've said here. Let me refine it to "It won't be fun to ride over rough pavement, but it will look good doing it."

I've never in my life have met a motorcycle that wasn't fun to ride, but I have ridden plenty that made me cringe on broken pavement.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Armen on 12/11/16 at 06:31:42

Ordered the shocks from Chris. In the process of making them work.
One of the things that bothers me about the look of the bike is how far the shocks sit out. I narrowed the pulleys to 1" (and am having the belt cut down). Now I can make the left shock sit on top of the lower mount instead of outboard of it. Chopped off a bit of the left top mount, drilled and tapped the remaining profusion, and used a mangled lower clevis mount on the bike. Without moving the right shock, now the shocks look symmetrical.
Have to do some welding and such to the lower left clevis mount to make it sit on the lower shock eye.
So, I'll end up with the right shock in the stock location, and the left shock inboard about an inch from stock.
Just bolts on!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 01/05/17 at 09:29:14

I received my new shocks from Chris Livengood today. They look really nice, and I hope they work as nice as they look. Chris sent me an email last week and stated they were coming...along with this hopeful comment: I got your shocks built and the spherical bearings installed last night. Boy howdy these ones really turned out nice. I wrote a new program for machining the upper bearing pockets and was rewarded with excellent results. I do want to let you know I did a modification to the piston that I have never done before but in bench tests they are f'n perfect. I was never really a fan of the Model 0 shock until yours, they are making me think differently. I think these are going to really perform well.

I ordered the spherical ends for the shocks, as I noticed my bike was not nearly as responsive as the Ninja when I sit on the seat....there seems to be a bit of "reluctance" to move easily to small movements - you have to do a bit of a bounce before the rear shocks would react. I believe the friction at the shock mounting points was likely the cause.

Unfortunately we have our first significant snow of the year going on today - but that most likely won't stop me from putting them on and bouncing up and down on the seat this weekend!

http://i68.tinypic.com/166ao12.jpg

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/05/17 at 09:53:16

They do look sweet. After you are done playing bouncy-bike, be sure to set your initial rear sag and just as importantly, recheck the fork sag settings.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by ohiomoto on 01/05/17 at 12:21:30

Nice. No I need to find some shortys like that!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by eastsidedirtykid on 03/15/17 at 19:15:23

New here! This will be my first post. I have a Ryca conversion, but weight around 220 on a good day lol so I feel like the Ryca rear shocks are a little short and I feel like I load them so much that the rear of the bike sags so far even on the highest setting. Should I just buy the generic RFY shocks on eBay to see if they work for a few rides before getting them redone? Also, what is the shortest and tallest setting these shocks can be adjusted to? I'm used to cbr's only so I'm definitely used to tight handling and think the Ryca is a tad bit slow in turning.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Ruttly on 03/15/17 at 19:41:00

Yeah it's gonna steer slow with the rear tire buried up under that cafe seat. Special order some Progresive shocks , know the bikes weight and your suited riding weight when you call them. They will fix you up and lighten your wallet too ! ;D

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/16/17 at 05:56:57

494D5F585F45484948455E58554745482C0 wrote:

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the wonderful world of custom building. Right out of the gate - your cafe racer will never be like your CBR in ride or handling. It will be different - but that doesn't mean "worse" - just different.

Here's the problem with getting an RFY from eBay - what spring rate does it have? And when you get it, is it the spring rate or the damping that you don't like? Before riding with a new RFY shock you should set your sag (10mm static and about 32mm race - assuming 108mm of travel). If the spring rate isn't right you'll never get the sag setting you need.

Chris can send you a set of shocks with the correct spring rate and compression damping built in. He has three different spring rates for the RFY shocks and my guess is you will need the higher rate spring.

I did play with the shock length and found that my chain made contact with the swingarm with any length beyond 13" (330mm). The other thing to be concerned about is the tightness of the chain/belt (I only checked this with a chain drive which, due to slack, is more forgiving then the belt drive) during full compression. With the RFY, at a fully compressed length of 10.25" the chain is about as tight as it could be. At a compressed length of 10.125" the tire is difficult to turn due to chain stretch. My concern with an under-sprung shock and a rider weight of 220-230 is that you will be riding at the extreme limit of chain/belt tension.

Given your weight you might try a length of 13.25" (338mm). If you have a chain drive, listen for chain contact during breaking or unloading of the suspension. If you have a belt drive you won't hear anything if you are making contact, so you'll have to examine the belt for unusual wear. With that said, I believe that the pulley set is larger then the sprockets and the contact points won't be the same.

I'd get the shocks properly sprung.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by eastsidedirtykid on 03/16/17 at 18:35:16

Thanks for the help! I'm pretty wishy washy on the topic of upgrading my shocks because an underlying issue is I am 6 foot 2 and have an inseam of 34 inches, so I feel pretty big on the bike. I don't mind the width of the bike at all as I actually like skinny bikes especially cafe racer types.

My issue is the height and I find it super low to the ground, hence I was seeing if I could raise the end of the bike to make it taller by upgrading the shocks. I am in the process of modifying the RYCA seat to sit a little higher too but was curious about the shocks to try them out.

Also, I want to (Decrease?) the rake a tiny bit so it can respond a little quicker as well.

Haha I have all these ideas and don't want to waste money but the RYCA kit was so amazing as my entry level project into the world of custom building!

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Ruttly on 03/16/17 at 20:35:06

Maybe 130/100 18 rear tire a bit taller and a lower profile front tire to help with rake angle after you get the right shocks
What size is your front wheel 18 or 19 ?
I went with 18 front & rear on my RYCA tracker
Good rear shocks are worth the money and if you didn't get a fork brace get one
Then a upgraded front brake
Oh your no where near done with this project !!! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 02:57:31

eastsidedirtykid:

I have a set of Progressive shocks on my bike that may be just what you need/want. They are 13" long, which is the longest that I believe is workable on the Savage - any more than that and the swing arm angle is just too severe, and you get too much tension change in the belt as the swing arm moves up/down.

I weigh 160 dry.....about 175 suited up to ride. The Progressive shocks were too stiff even on the lightest setting for me, and I installed a lighter set of springs and that has helped some. It was also necessary to install their spacers to limit the length of the shock travel, to keep the tire from hitting the seat when the shock are fully compressed. I just bought a set of RFY shocks as shown in this thread a few posts above this one, and I had them rebuilt - but I have not ridden with them yet. It will be a few weeks before winter leaves KY and I can ride the Cafe bike - I don't want to sell the Progressive shocks until I get a chance to try out the RFY shocks and see if they are better. Once I get the RFY's on my bike I might be able to sell you my Progressive shocks. They are model 412-4061C and they came with a 120/170 spring stock, and I rode them last year with 105/150 springs and they were better for me - but they still need to be on the lightest pre-load setting and still feel a bit stiff.

In the quest for better handling - definitely consider the tires sizes/shapes. A 130/70-18 tire does not belong on the 18-2.50 rear rim, and a 100/90 front tire has a very tall sidewall and a lot of weight - a 90/90 tire is more responsive Here is a link to the Cafe' tire discussion thread.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1435340395

The Savage as a Cafe' can be a fun bike, and it does ride well in the curves when set up well - but it is not a sport bike and will never handle as well. The steering will always feel just a bit stiff, as it has a Cruiser heritage.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/17/17 at 05:58:01

The rake and trail on my bike have been measured at 28 degrees of rake and trail is 3.5 inches. There was a robust discussion on rake and trail two weeks ago (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1488745527). I've experimented with a rake of 27 degrees and I found the steering too light and the bike not as stable as I like when leaned over. I think that the frame just isn't stiff enough to handle the high steering head angle and short trail.

Dave is right on the tire size. The 130 cross section tire is pinched onto the 2.50 rim. It really should be a 110/90.

eastsidedirtykid, tell us more about your bike.

- Are you keeping the belt drive or going with a chain?
- Are you going with RYCA's fork solution or converting to GVE's? (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1421689358/0)
- Are you going to use an 18" front wheel or are you using the stock 19"?
- Have you given thought to the BBK?

I'm 6'1" (but only 170 lbs). I too have owned a long list of sport bikes and dirtbikes, so when I first finished my cafe racer I found it to be absurdly small. It didn't take me long to get use to the low height and I no longer think about it.

I've put a lot of effort into my suspension, and as a result my bike handles great and gives a nice ride. This bike has made me rethink (or relearn) what I like in a street bike. I now have 1/3 the horsepower as my riding buddies (and they do leave me in their dust leaving stop lights) but I'm still one of the "fast guys". Modern sport bikes are just too much bike for street riding.

The old saying "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast then a fast bike slow" is so true. This savage-cafe has retaught me this.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Ruttly on 03/17/17 at 07:02:50

Glad I didn't buy my stickies yet , so you think a 130/100 is too wide for the 2.5 rim ? It has 120/100 rear 110/100 front both 18". I don't want the wrong sizes tires , please advise me of the proper size .

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 07:18:28

Ruttly:

Rather than dragging this man's thread off-topic - lets have your tire discussion here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1435340395

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by eastsidedirtykid on 03/17/17 at 09:33:27

Dave:

That sounds like a good Idea! I actually posted a new thread topic of an alternative way to raise the seat height.

But once I finish the plug oil leak and get riding again, I might have to take you up on the shock offer. I'll let you know! I'm just such a big guy I feel like the RYCA shocks aren't stiff enough.

Gary_In_NJ:

I like the belt drive look a lot more, plus less maitinence, even though I can covert to the chain drive because I ordered the kit with the cutout in the bracket.

As for the front fork I just used the tool and the spacers to lower it, not the upgraded springs they offered. I feel like it feels good for my riding. (I'm like a hybrid of aggressive and cruising, never really one or the other on a ride)

Yep! Definitely got the 18 inch front wheel instead of the 19 stock wheel.

Not sure what BBK stands for...still learning! But I fully agree that riding this slow bike fast is WAY more fun than ride my old CBR's so slow.

I know it's an ongoing project and that's what's so fun about it. And knowing what everything does and where everything is make for a piece of mind ride.

Anyways, I can't wait to hear more about the RFY shocks. I've read the same thing where people who've never tried them said they are garbage, and others who have taken the dive AND rebuilt them were extremely pleased.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/17/17 at 09:46:30

2E2A383F38222F2E2F22393F3220222F4B0 wrote:
Not sure what BBK stands for..

BBK = Big Brake Kit

2E2A383F38222F2E2F22393F3220222F4B0 wrote:
I'm just such a big guy I feel like the RYCA shocks aren't stiff enough.

It's a common way of expressing how a shock feels, but it's quite wrong. A "stiff" shock is either over sprung, or over dampened, or both. There is a very different path for correcting each of these. Another VERY common misconception: Increasing preload does not result in a stiffer spring. Preload is used for setting sag - that's it.

Setting the sag (I use the terms static sag - no rider, and race sag - with rider) is the measurement for determining whether a spring rate is correct for the application (bike + rider). If you have around 5 to 10mm of static sag and 25 to 32mm (RYCA shocks) of race sag, your spring rate is correct. If after setting your race sag you have less then 5mm of static sag it means that you need a heavier rate spring. If the static sag is more then 10mm then a lighter rated spring may be needed.

Damping controls the speed at which the shock compresses or rebounds. If it compresses too slow it is perceived as being too stiff. But you can have an undersprung shock that moves too slowly if it is over dampened.

The RYCA shocks are both oversprung (for most riders) and over dampened. I would conduct a proper adjustment of sag with the RYCA shocks to determine if the spring rates are correct for your weight.

A great resource for explaining suspension set-up can be found here ==> http://www.ntnoa.org/suspension_preload.htm

Understand what is wrong with your shocks (and forks) before throwing money at the "problem".

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 09:51:43

Yep....this one!

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1475013866/0#7

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/17/17 at 11:15:50

If after setting your race sag you have less then 5mm of static sag it means that you need a heavier rate spring. If the static sag is more then 10mm then a lighter rated spring may be needed.

You Sure bout that?

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/17/17 at 11:30:28

697670776A6D5C6C5C64767A31030 wrote:
You Sure bout that?

Yep! I know it seems counter-intuitive but that's the way it works. Remember you set the sag to achieve the correct race sag - we don't adjust for (too much) for static sag. The static sag is a result of race sag. So if you get the target race sag dialed in perfectly, but you have too much static sag, it's an indication that you need a lighter rate spring.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/17/17 at 11:45:45

That doesn't just Seem counterintuitive, it Iz,,
I still don't get it, but don't waste your time trying to help me. I wouldn't remember it and I'll never need it.

That's weird..
Rebuild a centrifugal pump. The jam nut for the shaft is just bakkerds to what you would think.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by antmanbee on 08/05/17 at 14:56:05

I was wondering if anyone had any further comments or updates with their experience with the RFYs either in the reservoir or standard type shock.
Also if there was any recommendations for shock length for a non ryca bike with standard size wheels with maybe one size taller tire.
From my reading an 11.5" sounds good but there is not an RFY in that size.
Is the 320mm with a 7mm spring a good option for a light rider (daughter at 110lbs or 150lbs for me).
Are there fitment problems with the 320mm length?
I am more inclined to buy from China and rebuild it my self.
Or the other option is shocks for a Harley Sportster. I am then concerned about the spring rate for a lighter bike and rider.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by antmanbee on 12/09/17 at 07:56:57

There was a lot of interest in these RFY shocks and then this thread died.

Please keep adding to it as I feel this is important information.

I am really curious how these shocks are working out for the several people that ordered them.

I am still slowly looking for new shocks for the s40 and maybe my Guzzi too.

I have seen 2 spring sizes with either 7mm or 8mm. 7 is probably what is needed for the s40 and 8 for the 500lb Guzzi.

Dave, I did like the looks of the non reservoir shock. Perfect for a classic styled bike.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by Dave on 12/12/17 at 04:43:19

My RFY shocks are still sitting in the box. I went to install them, and I discovered that I needed to make some spacers to keep the bottom of the shock from moving back/forth on the mounting bolts and rubbing on the swingarm. I just haven't gotten around to making them yet...winter is here and the time I used t spend mowing grass each week - can now be spent in the garage.

I currently have Progressive Sportster shocks on the Cafe' bike, and they were too stiff originally. I bought lighter springs and installed them - and they are working pretty good right now.

Title: Re: New Shocks for my RYCA Cafe Racer
Post by snels516 on 02/18/18 at 11:40:34

Dragging this one back to the surface. Dave, did you ever get those shocks on? It’s time I make my decision on shocks as I have a pile of parts in the garage to start using.